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Man opz, your post is a clusterfuck. Try to organize your thoughts better in the future. Regardless, you've brought forth some interesting ideas.
On June 25 2010 03:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:
First another thing I noticed...Radfield didn't die night one so we should lynch him today. He's clearly mafia.
I agree it's suspicious that mafia didn't go after radfield, but it does make some sense that they'd avoid hitting him. Since he doesn't have auror protection, he's a likely candidate for medic protection and as such a risky target.
Besides, his lack of interest in becoming elected in the first place and doing just about nothing to gain votes after he was nominated makes me lean towards him being town. Not that I think he's a terribly useful player anyway, and the pardoner position is really only useful only in mafia hands in this kind of setup... so I would be very fine with seeing him get lynched, I just hope we can come up with some more juicy targets that are more likely to be mafia at this point.
On June 15 2010 06:16 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 06:01 BrownBear wrote:
I would think to balance it out, nameclaiming in the thread would = modkill. Another flaw with any attempt to moderate whether you can explicitly name claim is that it can be unfair to deny a claim that you are a given name. For instance, can I say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly?" This gets to be a really slippery slope. If I can only deny claims made against me, I could just ask everyone to throw claims at me until they hit me, etc, an obvious breach of the spirit of the rules. Even if it weren't so blatant, it's clearly going in a direction that you do not intend. If we can't say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly," then suppose a player says I am either Ron Weasly or mafia (perhaps based on my list of abilities). It gets very messy as to how I can go about defending myself without saying whether or not I am Ron Weasly while still trying to show myself to be non-mafia. tl;dr it's really hard to moderate this kind of thing when accusations start getting thrown around.
*Yawn* YellowInk's first posts in the thread are about game balance and things like that. These can not be used to judge him at all and do not fall for the "I was trying to help." Why yes, yes you were, but this was before you got your role PM that possibly coulda been Death Eater.
Now it gets interesting
First post of substance by yellowink
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131008¤tpage=10#186
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:MOD request: Please edit the rules to reflect actual gameplay. Upon reviewing the thread I have noticed scattered rule changes that do not appear reflected in the original post. As the thread gets larger, I will of course do my best to follow all of the rules you have set out, but we will all be using the original post as our core reference. Re my inactivity: I thought we were on a Monday start due to requests to avoid Father's day, so I did not check in here. No worries, I will be plenty active in this game, but now I have a tarnished opening record. =\ Re my nomination for MoM: I am fine with running for minister here. I don't think that I have any special qualifications beyond the other two candidates posed except, well, that I know I am town. But supposedly so do they, so yeah. If people feel that I would be a valuable choice in the election, I would gladly take the role to at least keep it out of death eater or even independant hands. My spellset would mesh reasonably well with an elected role, but regardless of election will need to remain concealed to keep its optimal efficiency. Re roleclaiming: Bill Murray has stated that we cannot mass roleclaim. We may not name claim. + Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 05:09 Bill Murray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 04:11 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +
YellowInk wrote:
You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote:
1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies. To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list). I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter. ^ YellowInkShow nested quote +1. I am the mod. My word is law. I reserve the right to change any rules for game-breaking I will not be accepting name claims to occur in this game unless I am sure it will be balanced or your role PM specifically states otherwise. You may spell claim, or claim whatever nonsense you want, but try not to break the game. "Not Slytherin,eh?" said the small voice. "Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it's all here in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that--- no? There was some discussion after this, but ended without a clear result. Re oddities in electoral positions: Note that the Minster of Magic does not have 3 votes. They get a weak form of bodyguard protection and choose the day 1 lynch. Note that the Governor does not get bodyguard protection and an indeterminate number of chances to pardon. This role seems nearly useless for town and incredibly powerful in death eater hands. I would wonder if it has some usefulness to 3rd parties. Policy decision: I think it may be a good policy to straight up say right now that if the Governor ever uses their power, we must hang the Governor the next day. We have masons, but I think that if we have a mason Governor it would just look too suspicious for them to save a mason anyhow. I would rather keep a death eater off gaining more than one day from this power guaranteed than for a potential town mason Governor to use this (since the town mason Governor has no way to confirm that the target is a mason anyway by rules). I have skimmed the thread to pick up the important bits but definitely not carefully enough to pick up on behavior, so I'll have to spend some more time on this. Still, it's just day 1, reads aren't the best. Also, prospective MoMs, if you havn't already, please indicate your interest for day 1 lynch and thoughts on how to organize.
Okay, YellowInk soft claims a useful role or useful spell set I guess, and talks more on simple issues that...well...we would do anyway. Duh lynch the pardoner who fought the majority. Duh the BG protection is weak. Duh the mafia gain a day with a pardoner. He also speaks about BM not allowing name claiming (which he does now allow...or doesn't again?)
Basically...I don't like soft claiming...And then progressing with a "policy decision"
An interesting post now...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131008¤tpage=12#229
+ Show Spoiler +On June 23 2010 02:56 YellowInk wrote:
@ day 1 lynching policy: Unless a good red argument is presented, I would go after whomever is least active that is not going to be modkilled. We need people to be active to root out the red, so I encourage everyone to post frequently.
@ existance of bus driver: I am sure this is a game full of spells. Be wary of when and how you use them. The bus driver is devastating if they can predict your movements.
@ existance of godfather: With 4 death eaters and one being godfather, investigation seems even less useful than ever. If your investigations are of a limited number, use them wisely. If they are extremely limited, I would probably wait until you have someone analyzed on behavior before trying to check them out.
@ DT investigations of me: I'm going to try to avoid wasting any of our investigations by saying that I would not be a good target for this. Whether you believe that makes me pro town or pro mafia is up to you. However I will say that in a few days if I am under heavy suspicion and people come after me with a lynch I should have enough substance to be able to defend myself and show myself to be town.
@ medics: Whether this claim makes me worth of protecting or not is up to you. I would recommend slightly against protecting me as I would hate to see multiple medics covering me. It's good to keep the death eaters guessing on their targets, though. My partial claim should serve this well.
Because I have come forward to say these things, I think that this would make me an ideal Governor. If I am red and end up being forced to use my pardon early, you will lynch me and my partner the following day - town would be in an excellent position. Since I have stated that if I come under suspicion later in the game I will likely be able to defend myself, you could use that to see that I am not red and therefore not have to worry about getting ambushed by a pardon effect in the late game.
I would be fine if chosen as Minister of Magic as well, but I think with what I have claimed that the death eaters would not target me in the unprotected role of Governor due to fear of being blocked by a medic.
Okay, we've all been talking about that we need to be active. Some people aren't going to be. You changed your lynch policy pretty face when I agreed that I would vote for you if you ran to lynch DC...Your partial claim should serve what well? That you get medic protection? The mafia would like that if you were, but you tried to push it off right...Oh wait...Then you said you'd probably get it anyway...whole thing wild eh?
And with regards to the bolded part...
Why pardon? I mean...You don't have to even if it is a mafia member. We all know that. It'd be better to not pardon in many instances. And you keep emphasizing you would rather have the pardon. Just like Radfield...wild I say!
On June 23 2010 06:31 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2010 06:06 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Hey, if you wanna kill DC I'll vote for you....So tell me you'll kill him and get a vote yellowink I'll bite. I don't have a read on DCLXVI either way. If I'm elected MoM (which I think is unlikely), I'll lynch DCLXVI unless there is some other compelling argument. DCLXVI, don't take this the wrong way, I don't think I'll be elected MoM anyhow.  You should vote for me to get me into Gov if you have faith in me over the other two candidates. I believe you do since you voted for Roffles. I have to agree with the sentiment of not liking the Amber[light] & Radfield together ticket.
Lol...So nice...He still wants to be Governor....
Supporters of the YellowInk:
ElyAs
JohnnySpazz
LaXerCannon (Townie/Killed)
and
Please begin
On June 24 2010 02:07 Hesmyrr wrote:
Is night over? Want to start analyzing soon.
[/QUOTE]
The part I agree with is that his soft role claim is very suspicious, since he was using it to push his election, notably pushing to get the pardoner position which is always great for mafia -- he gets the benefit of some town trust that comes with a blue claim, while avoiding having to prove himself by claiming being able to use a specific spell. He's also been a little more slippery and less of a town leader this game than in XVI when I played with him, which makes me a little more suspicious of him. I guess I'm about 60% leaning towards mafia for YI.
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To expound on the fact that Radfield was elected pretty much out of nowhere is the fact that JeeJee didn't post an explanation as to why he choose radfield and hasn't had a single post of any sort of substance in the entire game. Most of his posts have been about rules and one about laughing while being mod killed. This isn't like him at all. He's typically a far more active player. I think a lot of Radfield being elected had to do with Amber[LighT] running pretty much the platform for the both of them.
I also noticed in the voting thread that Yellowink very nearly blitzed himself into an elected position. If the last two YI votes had gone through and Gilaboy's had been counted he would have been the Pardoner over Radfield in the span of 2 some hours...again with no real explanation except from Opz as to why they even did so. The only reason he wasn't made Pardoner is because the inactive people were late voting.
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fixed post above:
Man opz, your post is a clusterfuck. Try to organize your thoughts better in the future. Regardless, you've brought forth some interesting ideas.
On June 25 2010 03:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:
First another thing I noticed...Radfield didn't die night one so we should lynch him today. He's clearly mafia.
I agree it's suspicious that mafia didn't go after radfield, but it does make some sense that they'd avoid hitting him. Since he doesn't have auror protection, he's a likely candidate for medic protection and as such a risky target.
Besides, his lack of interest in becoming elected in the first place and doing just about nothing to gain votes after he was nominated makes me lean towards him being town. Not that I think he's a terribly useful player anyway, and the pardoner position is really only useful only in mafia hands in this kind of setup... so I would be very fine with seeing him get lynched, I just hope we can come up with some more juicy targets that are more likely to be mafia at this point.
Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 06:16 YellowInk wrote:On June 15 2010 06:01 BrownBear wrote:
I would think to balance it out, nameclaiming in the thread would = modkill. Another flaw with any attempt to moderate whether you can explicitly name claim is that it can be unfair to deny a claim that you are a given name. For instance, can I say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly?" This gets to be a really slippery slope. If I can only deny claims made against me, I could just ask everyone to throw claims at me until they hit me, etc, an obvious breach of the spirit of the rules. Even if it weren't so blatant, it's clearly going in a direction that you do not intend. If we can't say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly," then suppose a player says I am either Ron Weasly or mafia (perhaps based on my list of abilities). It gets very messy as to how I can go about defending myself without saying whether or not I am Ron Weasly while still trying to show myself to be non-mafia. tl;dr it's really hard to moderate this kind of thing when accusations start getting thrown around. *Yawn* YellowInk's first posts in the thread are about game balance and things like that. These can not be used to judge him at all and do not fall for the "I was trying to help." Why yes, yes you were, but this was before you got your role PM that possibly coulda been Death Eater. Now it gets interesting First post of substance by yellowink http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131008¤tpage=10#186+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:MOD request: Please edit the rules to reflect actual gameplay. Upon reviewing the thread I have noticed scattered rule changes that do not appear reflected in the original post. As the thread gets larger, I will of course do my best to follow all of the rules you have set out, but we will all be using the original post as our core reference. Re my inactivity: I thought we were on a Monday start due to requests to avoid Father's day, so I did not check in here. No worries, I will be plenty active in this game, but now I have a tarnished opening record. =\ Re my nomination for MoM: I am fine with running for minister here. I don't think that I have any special qualifications beyond the other two candidates posed except, well, that I know I am town. But supposedly so do they, so yeah. If people feel that I would be a valuable choice in the election, I would gladly take the role to at least keep it out of death eater or even independant hands. My spellset would mesh reasonably well with an elected role, but regardless of election will need to remain concealed to keep its optimal efficiency. Re roleclaiming: Bill Murray has stated that we cannot mass roleclaim. We may not name claim. + Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 05:09 Bill Murray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 04:11 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +
YellowInk wrote:
You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote:
1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies. To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list). I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter. ^ YellowInkShow nested quote +1. I am the mod. My word is law. I reserve the right to change any rules for game-breaking I will not be accepting name claims to occur in this game unless I am sure it will be balanced or your role PM specifically states otherwise. You may spell claim, or claim whatever nonsense you want, but try not to break the game. "Not Slytherin,eh?" said the small voice. "Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it's all here in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that--- no? There was some discussion after this, but ended without a clear result. Re oddities in electoral positions: Note that the Minster of Magic does not have 3 votes. They get a weak form of bodyguard protection and choose the day 1 lynch. Note that the Governor does not get bodyguard protection and an indeterminate number of chances to pardon. This role seems nearly useless for town and incredibly powerful in death eater hands. I would wonder if it has some usefulness to 3rd parties. Policy decision: I think it may be a good policy to straight up say right now that if the Governor ever uses their power, we must hang the Governor the next day. We have masons, but I think that if we have a mason Governor it would just look too suspicious for them to save a mason anyhow. I would rather keep a death eater off gaining more than one day from this power guaranteed than for a potential town mason Governor to use this (since the town mason Governor has no way to confirm that the target is a mason anyway by rules). I have skimmed the thread to pick up the important bits but definitely not carefully enough to pick up on behavior, so I'll have to spend some more time on this. Still, it's just day 1, reads aren't the best. Also, prospective MoMs, if you havn't already, please indicate your interest for day 1 lynch and thoughts on how to organize. Okay, YellowInk soft claims a useful role or useful spell set I guess, and talks more on simple issues that...well...we would do anyway. Duh lynch the pardoner who fought the majority. Duh the BG protection is weak. Duh the mafia gain a day with a pardoner. He also speaks about BM not allowing name claiming (which he does now allow...or doesn't again?) Basically...I don't like soft claiming...And then progressing with a "policy decision" An interesting post now... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131008¤tpage=12#229+ Show Spoiler +On June 23 2010 02:56 YellowInk wrote:
@ day 1 lynching policy: Unless a good red argument is presented, I would go after whomever is least active that is not going to be modkilled. We need people to be active to root out the red, so I encourage everyone to post frequently.
@ existance of bus driver: I am sure this is a game full of spells. Be wary of when and how you use them. The bus driver is devastating if they can predict your movements.
@ existance of godfather: With 4 death eaters and one being godfather, investigation seems even less useful than ever. If your investigations are of a limited number, use them wisely. If they are extremely limited, I would probably wait until you have someone analyzed on behavior before trying to check them out.
@ DT investigations of me: I'm going to try to avoid wasting any of our investigations by saying that I would not be a good target for this. Whether you believe that makes me pro town or pro mafia is up to you. However I will say that in a few days if I am under heavy suspicion and people come after me with a lynch I should have enough substance to be able to defend myself and show myself to be town.
@ medics: Whether this claim makes me worth of protecting or not is up to you. I would recommend slightly against protecting me as I would hate to see multiple medics covering me. It's good to keep the death eaters guessing on their targets, though. My partial claim should serve this well.
Because I have come forward to say these things, I think that this would make me an ideal Governor. If I am red and end up being forced to use my pardon early, you will lynch me and my partner the following day - town would be in an excellent position. Since I have stated that if I come under suspicion later in the game I will likely be able to defend myself, you could use that to see that I am not red and therefore not have to worry about getting ambushed by a pardon effect in the late game.
I would be fine if chosen as Minister of Magic as well, but I think with what I have claimed that the death eaters would not target me in the unprotected role of Governor due to fear of being blocked by a medic.
Okay, we've all been talking about that we need to be active. Some people aren't going to be. You changed your lynch policy pretty face when I agreed that I would vote for you if you ran to lynch DC...Your partial claim should serve what well? That you get medic protection? The mafia would like that if you were, but you tried to push it off right...Oh wait...Then you said you'd probably get it anyway...whole thing wild eh? And with regards to the bolded part... Why pardon? I mean...You don't have to even if it is a mafia member. We all know that. It'd be better to not pardon in many instances. And you keep emphasizing you would rather have the pardon. Just like Radfield...wild I say! Show nested quote +On June 23 2010 06:31 YellowInk wrote:On June 23 2010 06:06 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Hey, if you wanna kill DC I'll vote for you....So tell me you'll kill him and get a vote yellowink I'll bite. I don't have a read on DCLXVI either way. If I'm elected MoM (which I think is unlikely), I'll lynch DCLXVI unless there is some other compelling argument. DCLXVI, don't take this the wrong way, I don't think I'll be elected MoM anyhow. You should vote for me to get me into Gov if you have faith in me over the other two candidates. I believe you do since you voted for Roffles. I have to agree with the sentiment of not liking the Amber[light] & Radfield together ticket. Lol...So nice...He still wants to be Governor.... Supporters of the YellowInk: ElyAs JohnnySpazz LaXerCannon (Townie/Killed) and Please begin Show nested quote +On June 24 2010 02:07 Hesmyrr wrote:
Is night over? Want to start analyzing soon.
The part I agree with is that his soft role claim is very suspicious, since he was using it to push his election, notably pushing to get the pardoner position which is always great for mafia -- he gets the benefit of some town trust that comes with a blue claim, while avoiding having to prove himself by claiming being able to use a specific spell. He's also been a little more slippery and less of a town leader this game than in XVI when I played with him, which makes me a little more suspicious of him. I guess I'm about 60% leaning towards mafia for YI.
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I'm just going to stick my voice in here, much to the chagrin of some players as will soon become apparent, and say that I'm very disappointed with the inactivity in this game. It doesn't matter what I say or do or what policies I have presented. Inactives need to be flushed or town will lose the game to random voting.
That's all I have to say currently. Carry on.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
What's with the edits? Anyways, since I missed voting thanks to Comcast, I'll pick out the last couple from the YI voters and give my opinions on them so I can try to see why they hopped on the YI board at the last second.
Gonna start with Jugan
+ Show Spoiler [List of relevant posts by Jugan] +On June 24 2010 12:06 Jugan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2010 11:26 Subversion wrote:Why was I listed as inactive on Day 1? Anyway. One of our people who has a night ability had not yet used it, now that night is over can we assume that he did in fact use it, or did he just run out of time? We may have someone with a potentially useful ability who is inactive  Perhaps only those with night actions know? For example say a medic saved someone, maybe only the medic, the death eater, and that person know.
Only thing I picked up was a slight hint of him showing how the game mechanics work, as he hints that possibly only those with night actions know whether or not everyone with a night ability has performed it already.
Actually, after further reading of his posts, I've come to the conclusion that he's pretty much Flamewheel 2.0, littering with a ton of irrelevant posts, such as "Damn, there goes my favorite Weasley"... Haven't seen anything useful from Jugan. Why'd he vote for YI? Not a fucking clue at all.
Elyas
2nd game of Mafia. On board with sponsoring a mayor. Likes the aggressive playstyle of YI, voted because of one previous Mafia game with YI. Wants a rolecheck on MoM. Didn't like Amber or Radfield, so voted YI. Against inactives.
From what I see of Elyas, his main logic of detecting mafia lies within the simple aspect of comparisons in between games. To see whether or not the posting quality dips, or any slight behavior don't correspond between the two games. However, as stated, this is only his second game of mafia, so whether or not he'll be able to pick up on the slight differences is highly questionable. From what I see, if Player X is Townie in game 1, there's no way he'll be able to know how said player is going to act in this game, even if he's a townie. Certain players have various approaches towards each game, and let's not even talk about if Player X is a mafia. Then there's absolutely no way he'll be able to draw a conclusion as to how that player is going to act this game.
But to sum up what I've determined, I just find it highly suspicious of Jugan to hop on the YI train without any substance. If you sift through his previous posts, he gave absolutely no indication as to any affiliation whatsoever, but just voted for YI towards the end. I can sort of see why Elyas hopped on board with YI, but that might simply be because he knows YI's style from a previous game. Lack of reasoning behind the votes, and thus, we're still left in the dark.
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On June 25 2010 03:27 Bill Murray wrote:
"He also speaks about BM not allowing name claiming (which he does now allow...or doesn't again?)"
I don't mind name claiming if you are not a mason
Hi guys, I don't see why we're not starting to do this right now?
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On June 25 2010 06:37 zeks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 03:27 Bill Murray wrote:
"He also speaks about BM not allowing name claiming (which he does now allow...or doesn't again?)"
I don't mind name claiming if you are not a mason Hi guys, I don't see why we're not starting to do this right now?
because it gives death eaters an extremely easy way to hit blues, and is an even worse idea now that one of our doctors is dead. the benefit for the town is it might put death eaters into an awkward position having to choose names. Also note that masons will either be lying about their name or not claim at all and you have a messy situation to sort through for the town while death eaters are picking off blues! sounds like a wonderful idea to me.
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Looking at the posts from page 12. This is my chronolgical train of thoughts.
~OpZ~ (June 23 2010 01:21)
I like him more than you (not that I don't actually like you, ThreeKingdoms you were my buddy!). I'm actually planning on changing my vote still, and you had the same idea as me with Roffles, but I don't know if Roffles can scum find...I know Radfield can...But I learned my lesson from the game I was modkilled for. I was active, except the last day, and missed my vote.
Radfield ALSO said he doesn't have as much time to dedicate to the game, (As I've pointed out) so I don't really feel he should be a mayor or pardoner.
And Amber voting for Radfield (Amber trying to be pardoner?).
Wow, is this paragraph confusing and ambiguous as hell. I'm not sure what kind of definite stance you are making here. My understanding is that you are pointing out your concerns about Roffles, Radfield, and Amber. Anyway I felt you were trying to avoid making definite stance on some of the candidates, which caused me to look at your voting history.
~OpZ~: Radfield (June 22 2010 14:02) -> AmberLight (June 23 2010 05:44) -> YellowInk (June 23 2010 06:32)
Naturally this vote juggling has gotten me little confused. I would definitely like to hear your reasoning behind the vote switches. At ~OpZ~ (June 22 2010 13:08) you say "I'd nominate Radfield, but Radfield said he wont be as active" and that "I don't really give two craps about the mayor, but I most certainly hope he is active." So why did you vote Radfield one hour later? Note that you have repeatedly shown distrust toward Radfield and the fact that amber[light] was another viable candidate at the time. Why Radfield over Amber[light]?
As for the vote switching, I looked and he does give justification behind it in ~OpZ~ (June 23 2010 05:47) and ~OpZ~ (June 23 2010 06:32), but the brevity of it really makes me uncomfortable. The tactic of trying to root out scums by looking at the d1 mayoral votelist kinda fails regarding player who shuffles their vote around like this.
Amber[LighT] (June 23 2010 05:50)
Major alarmbells. You asked the town to either vote you or Radfield, then state that "people that are voting for him are looking scummy" when three people happen to consecutively vote for him? Hell, I can do this too: ~OpZ~, LaXerCannon and johnnyspazz all cosecutively voted for AmberLight- people voting for him sure look scummy~
YellowInk (June 23 2010 06:31)
Whoa, seriously? He accepted ~OpZ~'s shallow as hell DCLXVI lynch instead of pointing out how terrible lynching player for calling someone "idiot" is? This is a good way to completely absolve the responsibility from yourself should the DCLXVI flip green. When mayor lynchs a player, at least they contribute to the town by specifically explaining why. What's his excuse, ~OpZ~ wanted to?
One question I have though: You do not like Amber[light] and Radfield being together. However, amber[light] is the one who proposed the plan. In order for you to not like Amber[light] & Radfield ticket you have to suspect amber[light] of being scum. So why in the hell would you want to be only governor when your campaign against Amber-Radfield combo presumes that amber[light], who is likely to be mayor, is scum? Let me emphasize how damaging mafia MoM would be. Not only MoM get multiple vote power, it essentially lenders Aurors - and their 50% probability of learning scum's identity - useless. If you are town and didn't like "Amber[light] & Radfield combined ticket", you would have done your hardest to secure votes as much as possible to prevent both from obtaining mayoral spots instead of going all half-hearted like 'I only want votes enough to get me into gov'. Raising my suspicion meter on you.
Another thing of minor note is that he made himself only viable candidate against amber-radfield combo effectively nullifying my push for Roffles as 3rd alternative, but I suppose that is expected of pr who would give himself away just for the sake of putting himself into position of GOVERNOR, for some reason.
Jugan (June 23 2010 07:50)
Okay, simply pointing out the weird wording of amber is fine, but why in the world would you try to rolefish after the day has ended? I cannot understand how learning the fact that Radfield and Amber[light] is mason benefit the town in this point of the game. Another thing I note is why he would interpret Amber[light]'s words to mean they are masons, when there are another role that can communicate via PM as well: SCUMS. It could be possible that Jugan automatically eliminated mafia from list of options because he himself is scum, and know amber[light] radfield isn't.
Also DCLXVI, personal attacks never benefit the town. You even had guts to say you thought ~OpZ~ was town, but still ask the town to lynch him just for the sake of animosity. I would have lynched you myself at that point.
I'm kinda running out of time here so I'll stop here for now. Will look over the d2 posts tomorrow. I also see the plan to iso two players; I'll do Amber[LighT] and Abenson, though I may decide to change it later.
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On June 25 2010 05:48 Roffles wrote:
Haven't seen anything useful from Jugan. Why'd he vote for YI? Not a fucking clue at all.
Why don't you ask why instead of acting like i'm trying to hide everything before you start throwing out accusations 
On June 25 2010 05:48 Roffles wrote:
If you sift through his previous posts, he gave absolutely no indication as to any affiliation whatsoever.
Well, obvious I'm not going to indicate myself as mafia regardless of if i'm mafia or not, so logic would say that it's quite clear that no indication is an indication of townie. Claiming townie is the same as saying GUYS IM ON TEAMLIQUID. State the obvious more.
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On June 25 2010 06:55 Hesmyrr wrote:Jugan (June 23 2010 07:50)Okay, simply pointing out the weird wording of amber is fine, but why in the world would you try to rolefish after the day has ended? I cannot understand how learning the fact that Radfield and Amber[light] is mason benefit the town in this point of the game. Another thing I note is why he would interpret Amber[light]'s words to mean they are masons, when there are another role that can communicate via PM as well: SCUMS. It could be possible that Jugan automatically eliminated mafia from list of options because he himself is scum, and know amber[light] radfield isn't. .
Or it's possible that if you eliminate mason from the list you get mafia. Look at what you wrote. It's hilarious.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On June 25 2010 07:10 Jugan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 05:48 Roffles wrote:
Haven't seen anything useful from Jugan. Why'd he vote for YI? Not a fucking clue at all.
Why don't you ask why instead of acting like i'm trying to hide everything before you start throwing out accusations Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 05:48 Roffles wrote:
If you sift through his previous posts, he gave absolutely no indication as to any affiliation whatsoever.
Well, obvious I'm not going to indicate myself as mafia regardless of if i'm mafia or not, so logic would say that it's quite clear that no indication is an indication of townie. Claiming townie is the same as saying GUYS IM ON TEAMLIQUID. State the obvious more.
No shit sherlock. I'm not fucking retarded. Just summing shit up for people who don't want to sift through every single damn page.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Plus, where have I accused you of doing anything? I just said I have absolutely no justification in regards to your fucking actions. Keep the conflagratory and abrasive comments coming.
No shit you're not gonna reveal yourself to be fucking mafia. No one's fucking retarded. I'm just stating that from the shit you spammed, it's hard to fucking tell which alliance you're with simply because you haven't been fucking contributing shit.
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On June 25 2010 07:23 Roffles wrote:
Plus, where have I accused you of doing anything?
Accusations of mafia, duh.
On June 25 2010 05:48 Roffles wrote:
But to sum up what I've determined, I just find it highly suspicious of Jugan...
Sorry I misinterpreted, I thought you found me highly suspicious.
On June 25 2010 07:20 Roffles wrote:
I'm not fucking retarded.
Fooled me.
On June 25 2010 07:23 Roffles wrote:
No shit you're not gonna reveal yourself to be fucking mafia. No one's fucking retarded. I'm just stating that from the shit you spammed, it's hard to fucking tell which alliance you're with simply because you haven't been fucking contributing shit.
Calm down with the F-bombs, it's just a game. Plus I enjoy your stream more than I enjoy trolling you
But really what is there to base conclusions off of? Do you want why I voted for Yellow? you can ask nicely you know <3
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On June 25 2010 07:12 Jugan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 06:55 Hesmyrr wrote:Jugan (June 23 2010 07:50)Okay, simply pointing out the weird wording of amber is fine, but why in the world would you try to rolefish after the day has ended? I cannot understand how learning the fact that Radfield and Amber[light] is mason benefit the town in this point of the game. Another thing I note is why he would interpret Amber[light]'s words to mean they are masons, when there are another role that can communicate via PM as well: SCUMS. It could be possible that Jugan automatically eliminated mafia from list of options because he himself is scum, and know amber[light] radfield isn't. . Or it's possible that if you eliminate mason from the list you get mafia. Look at what you wrote. It's hilarious.
Are you explicitly suggesting that you were trying to coax them into confessing they are not masons?
On June 25 2010 07:23 Roffles wrote:
Plus, where have I accused you of doing anything? I just said I have absolutely no justification in regards to your fucking actions. Keep the conflagratory and abrasive comments coming.
No shit you're not gonna reveal yourself to be fucking mafia. No one's fucking retarded. I'm just stating that from the shit you spammed, it's hard to fucking tell which alliance you're with simply because you haven't been fucking contributing shit.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Apologies for the previous couple of posts.
Just Jugan being typical Jugan.
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Yeah, I'm starting to think that my lack of experience makes me go in a wrong direction, but I don't really know everyone's playstyles, so I'm doing with what I have (Sure, I could go and analyze previous games but it looks like experienced players are good at changing personas and such...)
For this time I'm gonna do it my way, if you think it's irrelevant, I'll try something else next time (or this time, we still have ~24H)
Anyway.
AcrossFiveJulys :
He was vig in Mafia XXVI, not very active on day1, stepped up day 2, taking risks and initiatives with an aggressive playstyle. Died day 2
In this game :
Weights the pro/contra of mass nameclaim, but is against (because of chaos / we would need luck to win.) Sponsors Amber[Light], doesn't want Radfield to be sponsored. Has some doubt about Amber[Light] and the fact that he insists to be rolechecked, but votes for him. Day 2 : directs the town's efforts in analyzing other persons. Wants to analyze YellowInk and johnnyspazz
My thoughts : likely to be townie as he tried to fight inactivity giving us the task of analyzing people, I'd like to see more of his aggressive playstyle again to be convinced, but fairly positive.
Zeks :
Townie in Mafia XXVI, he played awkwardly enough to be suspected, but survived until the end. Heavy poster and several one-liners
In this game :
Thinks the MoM is going to show his true face fast by playing pro-town or not because of the risks mafia is taking by playing too pro-town.Inclined to pick Amber or Radfield as MoM. Proposes a nameclaim strategy on the basis that mafia would have to make up names and that the names do not necessarily represents the roles. Defends his strategy. Voted for Amber[Light]. Against inactives. Really likes his nameclaim strategy as he continues to press for it
My thoughts : posted slightly less than i saw him do in last game, but it might be a change of strategy. Still some one-liners. I don't have any read on him as of now. Looking forward to see his way of analyzing people to have a better opinion.
Sorry if my post contains pieces of broken english.
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On June 25 2010 07:33 Roffles wrote:
Apologies for the previous couple of posts.
Just Jugan being typical Jugan.
*Hug*
On June 25 2010 07:30 Hesmyrr wrote:
Are you explicitly suggesting that you were trying to coax them into confessing they are not masons?
I simply asked on what grounds they were able to communicate outside of the game. Especially since, in a later post, I stated that I wasn't sure if anyone other than masons could PM outside the game. But you caught me man, I'm mafia. Good job :D
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 25 2010 03:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:
First another thing I noticed...Radfield didn't die night one so we should lynch him today. He's clearly mafia.
If I make it through the night in TMMM the I'm on a three game streak. Lesson to be learned: If you die enough night 1, you eventually become to conspicuous a medic target for the mafia. I hope.
My thoughts on Jayme:
Brief Post History: Good posts in bold
Talks about previous game
Against roleclaiming/nameclaiming
Softclaims blue, throws a vote to Amber[light]
comment
Talks about mayoral election in detail
So far Jayme hasn't posted much, but his posts are filled with content. He's been fairly transparent with his decision making and his reasoning. It's still early to really tell if anyone is pro-town at this point, but I don't get any kind of scum vibe. It would be nice to see a bit more activity out of him, if only to see if the posting quality can remain high.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Quick Analysis of AFJ:
Post History:
Gives pros and cons of mass role claim, but is ardently opposed
Nominates amber[Light] for mayor(disses me)
Explain his vote
Comment
Clarification
Comment
Spam
Spam
Gives a Day 2 plan
add-on to previous post
Question
Responds to Opz(disses me again)
AFJ has been quite active this game, with a mix of larger content rich posts, and smaller comments and sum-ups. In Incogs game he was quite active as well, with a fairly similar mix of posts as well. In that game I pegged him as mafia, particularly due to the summing up of whats happening, and commenting on whats happening(without leveling an opinion). He ended up being town in that game, and as far as I can tell, he's playing quite similarly(this doesn't mean much though, given that if he was mafia, the goal would be to play quite similarly).
I get a similar read to Jayme from AFJ, not necessarily pro-town at this point, but no scum tells. except with added meaningless posts that sum up and comment on what's happening
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Somehow I accidentally posted. That last paragraph should read:
I get a similar read from AFJ as from Jayme, not necessarily pro-town at this point, but no scum tells. Although with added meaningless posts that sum up and comment on what's happening. I'd like to see more of the content rich posts from AFJ, and less of the contentless posts. Again, we'll see if the quality can remain high.
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EPT
