EPTand nuking JeeJee first because JeeJee is JeeJee as JeeJee is JeeJee
World at War Mafia
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
and nuking JeeJee first because JeeJee is JeeJee as JeeJee is JeeJee | ||
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Elemenope
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Why so mad JeeJee? | ||
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On March 22 2010 11:59 Caller wrote: make him 1914 era russia, then he can feed all game and rage quit when the game goes against him owait he does that anyways I thought you changed, JeeJee JeeJee. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
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On March 23 2010 11:31 ~OpZ~ wrote: Eh...RoL lynching first would be retarded... Our first order of business should be to find Iran, Pakistan, North Korea...They are clearly the baddies... And maybe Mr. Chavez. This guy's legit. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On March 23 2010 13:39 L wrote: Now for day 1 lynch: Kill abenson. Kid's terribad and not worth keeping alive. And here we go. | ||
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This comes to the main point - usage of nukes/retaliation. I agree with L partially that maybe 2 nukes is a bit too little, but I don't agree with him that everybody should just counter-nuke due to a possible third party win condition. Unless of course by L saying "everybody chain nukes" he means a lot of people nuke rather than "everybody chain nukes." On March 23 2010 16:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: While Zona has a decent plan to deter nuking, it involves a lot of secondary nuking. (One nuke = Two more nukes being fired as retaliation). Then his suggestion of a third party scares me into believing he himself is a third party. Seriously, one retaliatory nuke should be enough. We have no idea how many nukes can actually be fired before we wind up fucked from radiation. I believe one counter-nuke definitely is not enough. If this was the case, we'd just leave it up to the person who has the nuke called on him to retaliate or have some person claim that he’d counter-nuke and not have any nukes at all. I don’t think this is such a sound plan. Until we hear from every person I don't think we should decide on a lynch candidate. We have 2 days to find a target, let's use them. Everyone post an overall strategy, don't just cosign someone elses. I support L's M.A.D. only because I will not let someone bully me, or force a band wagon when half a day hasn't even went by yet. Nobody is deciding on a lynch candidate just yet. L is simply throwing an option out there. His reasoning may be off in some people’s viewpoints, but the option is out there which is what’s important. Surely we’re not going to sit here for 48 hours discussing what everybody’s opinions on how our nukes should be used. L isn’t proposing we all agree with him and lynch Abenson which is why he hasn’t actually given a vote. Whether L proposed Abenson, Zona, or anybody else doesn’t matter: the important thing is that extra discussion happens which will give us more tells about the players. We also have no need to day lynch, remember this. We can start shit and throw suspicion as much as possible. Ace said we need a majority of players, and once he notices, the days over. No one is going to vote for anyone until everyone is given the appropriate time to speak in their own defense. And L said 100% Considering all we need is 54%, 12 players, to vote for a lynch to pass that isn't something we have to worry about. This shows why we shouldn’t sit on a day 1 lynch. Yeah, bandwagons shouldn’t happen and with the majority rule, it is imperative that people do in fact think for themselves. However, because we act on a majority rule, nobody is obligated to vote past the majority. Because of that, vote lists are a bit restricted if we don’t make full use of them now when everybody is equally suspect. Although it’s a bit counter-intuitive because we don’t want people to die, we need people to die to get information early on. Until we hear from every person I don't think we should decide on a lynch candidate. We have 2 days to find a target, let's use them. Everyone post an overall strategy, don't just cosign someone elses. I support L's M.A.D. only because I will not let someone bully me, or force a band wagon when half a day hasn't even went by yet. That being said, I’m putting you out there for a day 1 lynch. This is because you've been in contradiction of what you said earlier about Zona thinking two nukes is too much. L’s deterrence offers that *everybody* nukes the initiator while Zona’s is on almost the opposite end: two is just fine. His plan also has nothing to do with the fact that people are “bullied” or “bandwagoning” either – you said yourself that one nuke should be enough, so why do you care if you are “bullied” by someone? The only thing that person can do during the day is nuke you which you can just retaliate back with “one retaliatory nuke” that “should be enough” according to what you have said. On top of that, you even say that you'll fire as many nukes in retaliation as possible if things do not go as planned. To whose plan? Surely not the town's as "we have no idea how many nukes can actually be fired before we wind up fucked from radiation" according to you. You may be a bit annoyed about how L acted last game, but that should have no bearing on this game. I just don’t see the logic in supporting L’s deterrence plan when proposing the opposite earlier, and when the logic has no link to L’s deterrence plan at all. His deterrence strategy doesn’t have anything to do with people getting pushed around, acting like sheep, or bandwagoning at all – it’s just a countermeasure to people having random nukes launched on them. Consider your stance a bit more. Anyway, going to write a paper. | ||
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On March 24 2010 04:07 ~OpZ~ wrote: I will respond to Elemenope's post in a moment, for whoever asked me to So how's that post coming along. | ||
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Elemenope
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On March 24 2010 05:06 ~OpZ~ wrote: Why do you think that isn't a good plan? What's wrong with it? Why would the counter nuker counter if he doesn't have any nukes? We can just kill him if he does that, but it really wouldn't matter. Why not just let the person BEING nuked counter, and if HE doesn't have nukes, let another...You didn't really explain here why that's the case? The idea you just said doesn't make sense, or I just can't understand it. I disagree with the firing or nukes for no reason already, but I think we should definitely consider the situation But you really didn't explain anything here. If we use the logic that only one counter-nuke should be launched in response to an unsupported launch, we spread the idea that a) since only one counter-nuke is promoted and b) only one person is getting attacked by an unsupported launch then c) the person getting attacked should be the one to take care of the counter-nuke. The problem with this is that it doesn’t take into account the fact that some people may not have nukes at all. You might say that the person can just claim to have no nukes, but we have no way of verifying that claim unless we ask the person to launch a nuke themselves, which kind of defeats the purpose. Oh, yes. L was assuredly saying we should lynch Abenson. Or atleast that is who he would lynch. Saying “we should lynch X” is different from “**vote: X” [I’m using * because I’m sure Ace will be gay and complain if I use #]. Proposing lynch candidates is merely asking people their input and response. It’s to draw out emotions of people in a game where we can only judge people by their emotions, behaviors, and mistakes. It looks like a shitty way of phrasing things, similar to how he was doing with BM, but the point is that L can only act as a catalyst to events – just like anybody else. What is necessary is our judgment in deciding if we should follow through in his beliefs or not. Yeah, L may have a history of bussing people, but if you know that and believe he is wrong in this case, then make a very good argument discrediting him. Convince people by pointing out flaws in his case. Not everybody is a sheep. But you are saying we shouldn't just sit here for 48 hours discussing nukes? Okay, I didn't say that. I said don't jump on lynching without giving everyone a chance for input. You even said everyone should speak, and its imperative that they do. Then why complain about me saying it, right afterwards? The only discussion about nukes is how many we use as retaliation in an unsupported attack. Everybody is going to agree that we shouldn’t nuke each other. But we cannot really discern intentions from how many nukes we can use. Possibly the only thing I can glean from it is that L may possibly be a third party candidate pushing for a ToD game over and that perhaps the ToD threshold will be in fact quite real, though it’s merely speculation. It might end at one nuke, it might end after 100 nukes. It’s just something we have to take into account as the game progresses. Perhaps lynching is the best choice for ToD concerns, but we also gain slight information about everybody’s alliance and capabilities if we use counter-nukes. We need death for information, I was only speaking against bandwagoning. There was no real argument between us here... The main point I had was you said we have no need to day lynch, but I’m saying it’s better to get a day lynch out of the way first, then sit on future lynches if needed. We don’t know all the roles possible. What if there’s a vote list checker? What if there’s other vote manipulation roles or a role that happens when a lynch happens? It’s necessary to try to find these out as they give us more information about what we can use. We lack complete information. It’s necessary to uncover information as soon as possible. Yes, I was annoyed by L. You took my firing of nukes out of context. As in, my death is imminent, I will retaliate. I disagree with most of the nuking plan. I'm sorry I didn't post everything I had considered, but the game had just started as far as I was concerned. His deterrence plan isn't what I'm concerned with. Bully? Try and force a bandwagon. (I will not nuke on this) Try and lynch me. Try and lynch before everyone speaks. (or this) I refuse to accept this. This makes sense to me. I know my role. When I said consider your stance, I meant more of your supporting of one while supporting the opposite of another, not necessarily all your opinions. I mainly wanted to get this out of the way first since it was addressed to me, I’ll respond to the other items in the thread, hopefully within the next hour, otherwise that’ll have to wait for a few more hours due to class. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On March 24 2010 08:37 ~OpZ~ wrote: True...Abenson, Johnny, Don't just bandwagon. Give us a legitimate reason. And someone, Xelin or Elemenope(?) said not to take L's past game's actions into account? But we are still supposed to use past games to assess their character? Hmm...is this logical to not use past game actions then? Shit, L could possibly have Nukes...it would be better to lynch him while he's gone then wait for him to be here then Nuke right before he dies in order to take peoples with him. Just pointing that out... I'm at class right now on break and reading this from a friend's laptop, but I'd like to point out that I said that L's past actions shouldn't have a bearing on this game, and I never said that we are to use past games to assess character. If you interpretted that, you misinterpretted. Provide quote and I'll explain more if needed, but my stance is that only current game actions/activity should have bearing on this game. Use that information to discredit people rather than attack players based on past games or "revenge" crap like L did with BM last game and with Abenson current game. Larger post will come with more of my thoughts when I get home. | ||
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On March 23 2010 21:41 haster27 wrote: It is my opinion that launching only one retaliatory nuke against the player who nukes without permission is terrible idea. If the player has nuke capabilities, it is highly likely that he will also have some anti-missile defense to protect themselves with. I don’t see how you can say this. It’s highly unsupported unless you’re just basing it off of your capabilities, which is quite unwise. As for the first lynch, waiting sounds good enough. It should force Mafia into activity, and active Mafia generally seemed to be easier target to find than lurking Mafia. This only holds valid when the town is active as well. Which is why I stress it is important that everybody talk. Basing off current lynch votes, it seems L is going to be one of the first to die on the basis of inactivity. He really has no choice of activity but everybody else does – it’s imperative people are active. On March 23 2010 23:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: All this bio-chemical warfare. We should go for the ez kill then and go for L if he's going to be inactive anyway. Any other target would be foolish at this point, unless someone thinks there's any reason to suspect anyone else. Sound reasoning. I’m only worried if something comes up shortly before the final vote is cast, but I suppose that’s something that can be dealt with the next day. And partially, I fear that a lot of this may be because people just don’t like L =\ On March 23 2010 23:17 JeeJee wrote: ahhh... i love the smell of napalm in the morning anyway, i think obviously if anyone launches a nuke without consensus, they should be dead. but i disagree with the counter-nuking plans proposed so far. we shouldn't be so triggerhappy. i would save our nukes for end-game if we need the extra daytime kp, plus i don't want to risk some bullshit ToD loss. here's my plan. we adopt a strictly no nuking policy for now. anyone who nukes gets majority voted right away. as soon as their nuke lands, they pop, and we get 2 pieces of info (nuker and nukee's alignments). I had forgotten this option at the start. Sounds reasonable. The only problem I can see with this is if someone uses it to save someone who is going to be lynched, kind of like a self-sacrificing pardoner. Or if multiple people launch nukes. I agree though that this can be used for the first few days until we have more information. On March 24 2010 00:55 Caller wrote: In fact, the best way to go about this is for somebody without any actual nukes to nuke L. Disregarding the rule mistake which you’ve admitted, the problem with this is that we can’t confirm the validity of nukes until after they land. We have no way of proving who has nukes, who doesn’t have nukes; the same goes for counter-measures. I feel that nobody should state how many nukes they have nor counter-measure amount unless we can somehow verify the claim. On March 24 2010 01:40 Zona wrote:Making the town misunderstand the game and thus the best way to play is beneficial to the mafia and must be called out. Actually I don't like your attitude that "they didn't read the rules" is some trivial issue. If you're going to play the game, at least take the damn effort to read the rules. I agree that misunderstanding the rules is very harmful to the town. It is essential that each person knows what the rules are and what his or her role is along with its powers. Remember – we have no information about roles. We don’t know if there are conditionals to rules or not. It is very vital that you misinterpret your role and screw up. Again, as Zona said, PM ace if you don’t understand an aspect of your role. Although having admitted his mistake [I realize that this has happened after these posts], and the fact that it wasn’t at a time where everybody was on or anything, I’m thinking that he wasn’t doing it intentionally; though it is something to keep in mind in the future if he pulls something like this again. On March 24 2010 01:43 Versatile wrote: as far as someone nuking without town consensus, how about they get nuked by the person above/below them in the list? this would help in beginning to determine who may have what "powers". also, there's all this discussion about how to punish someone for nuking without town consensus, but no discussion on how we decide who does nuke. and how to figure out who has nuking capabilities. i think some altered form of 789/ace's plan in the caller game might be useful here. This is something I wish would get discussed a bit later when we may need to abandon the “lynch nuker” plan. Personally, I wasn’t here for the game in which this plan happened, so I can’t say so much about the plan itself and how it can be modified. I don’t really care for how many nukes people has as I feel until we get a verifying method, it isn’t something that should be discussed. But a non-biased and set plan for counter nukes is efficient in my mind. On March 24 2010 01:56 Zona wrote: I agree with this. But I see the use of nukes (as a daytime vigilante kill) as a last-resort, desperation measure for the town when they feel they are close to losing. Let's not factor using nukes into the town plan until we're really fucked. Nukes are shitty for ToD, but keep in mind that nukes as day vigs are basically our way of getting extra lynches in. If we are very sure about a particular suspect, we can lynch that person, yes. But if we are sure of two people, I feel that we should use a nuke as it’s basically a double lynch. I’m sure people are going to argue about this considering ToD, but as I said earlier, we don’t necessarily need to be afraid of using nukes but rather afraid of using them unwisely. On March 24 2010 02:04 XeliN wrote: L being banned for 2 days in my eyes means he is not a viable candidate to be lynched, although the posts he has made already I disagree with but that might simply be because he's L and thats my general reaction to whatever he posts. The problem that it’s very put-offish at times. It may be the way he plays, but if it doesn’t rub well with people, obviously conflicts are going to come up even if people have different playing styles. As to the idea of retaliation against a player who has an itchy trigger finger, we have the perfect form of retaliation. We lynch them. Or to put it more bluntly Any player launching a nuke against another without at the very least providing coherent argument for doing so will be lynched. Furthermore the only instance whereby we would launch against a player who acts in this way would be if we already have a good candidate for lynching, then we will nuke or multiple nuke them (I am of the opinion that 2 ought to be enough) To get things started off in the voting section I am going to be Voting ~OpZ~ His post earlier on both seemed different in style to the way he posted in the last game and also was riddled with subtle "I am town" choice of wording, something I consciously made an effort to do in the last game I was mafia so guess I'll go along with my instinct here.[/QUOTE] On March 24 2010 03:14 Zona wrote: Current version of proposed plan 1. No one is to initiate a nuke. 2. Anyone who initiates a nuke should be revenge-nuked by TWO players with real nukes. To ensure only TWO revenge-nuke, those with real nukes need to refresh the thread, and see if two have already been launched. If not, shoot one. 3. If any of the revenge-nukes turn out to be fake, the faker needs to be lynched or nuked as well. 4. Do not launch fake nukes. This only serves to muddy the picture for the town and gives an opportunity for the target to get another nuke in the air. 5. Anti-nukes should be used at their owner's discretion. However, save some for the late game, so that at that stage, the mafia can't simply nuke a large proportion of the remaining town members and win. 6. If the town COLLECTIVELY (not by some individual thought) feels that they're probably close to losing, start using nukes as daytime vigilante hits. The only thing I would change is that 6 shouldn’t be when we feel close to losing, but rather when we’re sure of a second scum in addition to the lynch. Though still, the town as a whole decides. On March 24 2010 03:17 JeeJee wrote: 2i) lynch the second nuker on the day after. unfortunately if there's doubt about even performing one town lynch, i doubt this will work. 2ii) if possible have one of the nukee's counternuke the nuker, and we lynch the other one. that way they both flip on the same day (unfortunately this means more nukes in the air) 2iii) something with anti-nukes? like anti-nuke one, lynch other. The main issue with 2i is that on the second day, the nuker may launch a second nuke. Yeah, we’re going to lynch him, but we still have a nuke to deal with. 2ii) possibility of scum to interfere with a single counternuke, and then we have the same situation with 2i, though now we may have two nukes out in the air. 2iii) this is probably the best option that I can see at the moment out of these 3. On March 24 2010 03:19 Zona wrote: There are two things to discuss though - if we approach a day deadline with no majority vote. Is it worth it to launch a fake nuke to extend the day? And the amendment to my plan of LYNCHING the first nuke-initiator rather than revenge-nuking them. I don’t see how we can do this. Are we to take the word of someone when he says that he has no nukes? On March 24 2010 03:24 XeliN wrote: There is a difference between making assumptions and considering likelihoods, it is reasonable to consider RoL might have a greater chance of being town based on the reasons you now retracted just as, in my view, it is reasonable to consider it unlikely that people will have an ability to manipulate the voting, or at least if anyone does have such an ability it would quickly be made obvious. I don’t feel it’s fair to consider the likelihood of anybody having any role whatsoever. It may be obvious that someone has extra votes, but what does that matter? We have new information that we just have to take into consideration and execute our town plan(s) accordingly. Everybody is suspect considering we have no information whatsoever. Until we can get some verification methods, it’s to remain that way. Go by what’s being posted/activity/inactivity/actions. Not likelihood that something may or may not happen because it “doesn’t seem right”. I’m not even going to say anything other than “lol” at the Xelin-Fishball misunderstanding. I want this clarified On March 24 2010 04:07 ~OpZ~ wrote: You didn't respond to anything about my post. You just read my post and says he's trying to claim town. Now Xelin, I hate to tell you this, but your instinct is wrong. Also, your lynch idea as being the perfect retaliation to nuking? Wrong. In response to On March 24 2010 02:04 XeliN wrote:As to the idea of retaliation against a player who has an itchy trigger finger, we have the perfect form of retaliation. We lynch them. Or to put it more bluntly Any player launching a nuke against another without at the very least providing coherent argument for doing so will be lynched. Furthermore the only instance whereby we would launch against a player who acts in this way would be if we already have a good candidate for lynching, then we will nuke or multiple nuke them (I am of the opinion that 2 ought to be enough) You say On March 24 2010 04:36 ~OpZ~ wrote: It's a WASTE of time. Do you think mafia will have all kinds of nukes to just launch? To throw themselves out there and pray we don't retaliate? I agree retaliation is necessary, but ending the day right there to give them another kill, when it was most likely an idiot townie? Go look at Caller's game, the CIA agent was the last person to execute someone, and ended the game with it. It's already been stated how big of a gambit it is to just throw yourself out into the open. I agree with retaliating, but directly saying launch 3 nukes is bad, and simply ending the day is bad. The situation should determine the means of countering. when he was advocating that we only retaliate with nukes when a second player launches a nuke. Are you actually reading posts or are you trying to put words in people’s mouths? And then in the same post, you say That is what my problem with the plans. So far, I like the lynch plan best, because it doesn't increase the ToD. Do you even know what you’re saying? I realize that you claim you are in favor of lynch as the countermeasure for an unsupported nuke, but do you realize that you’re refuting and agreeing with people in the same post? On March 24 2010 05:55 Abenson wrote: I will vote for L simply because he is temp-banned and not much help as of now. ##vote L This is your one post, and you’re just going to leave it at that? Are you fucking serious? On March 24 2010 06:30 nemY wrote: Can someone summarize what's gone on so far? What I can make of it so far is: L's been banned. we're adopting a "no nuke" policy, if someone breaks the policy we nuke them 2x, don't use fake nukes (if you have them), and ~OpZ~ is being an idiot? Are you fucking serious? On March 24 2010 07:15 ~OpZ~ wrote:And Elemenope, I don't see what we are arguing over? My post was stating I would use what I have as needed. And I didn't support lynching until everyone posted. We have over 24 hours, and as I've said, we should use them. Only using one nuke in retaliation preserves the ToD. We can always launch another if it's necessary. You act like we can't fire it the next day if necessary? Why must we retaliate within the same day? Please explain what is wrong with that. I’ll explain this right now on why it’s necessary that all unsupported nuke launching needs to be dealt with that same very day: Because that person can launch another nuke the very next day. Then what do we do? Use up a lynch just because we were afraid of instant GG from ToD when due to our inaction, another person dies and we waste a lynch. That’s two days gone basically. When radiation is at none, are you seriously still proposing that if two people launch nukes, we only deal with one now and the other the next day when he could launch another nuke, thereby increasing ToD if it’s detonated? Aren’t you in favor of not raising ToD in any way? *We can’t rely all the time on anti-nukes or other prevention methods as ways to prevent unsupported nukes from killing people.* On March 24 2010 07:19 meeple wrote: It's possible Nemy is feigning ignorance, but its also possible that he doesn't have the time to read the whole thread. On the other hand, he is suspect to me because of how he made a questionable statement that was ill-informed, that promotes the wrong type of ideas. (Saying that OpZ is being an idiot) If he hasn’t had time to read the thread, then he shouldn’t make posts that says he’ll read the thread, then make another post asking people to summarize the thread for him. That’s just ridiculous. On March 24 2010 09:43 tree.hugger wrote: Don't let L's reputation for being frightening and wrong discourage you. His guesses haven't gotten better over time, and I doubt a two day break will help his logic sober up. That man should never be let near a blinking red button, take him out. Also the 'or worse' clearly means a kind of 'Dr. Strangelove' doomsday device. Purity of Essence, remember, PoE, PoE, Purity of Essence.... You have got to be kidding. On all parts. On March 24 2010 10:34 ~OpZ~ wrote: If the votes didn't operate different this round I wouldn't care. I wouldn't support lynching one of the only people I know that is confirmed town, and since the votes are an instant majority thing it gets a little more scary than usual. Especially if you feel you were bandwagoned after a reasonable statement of things to be aware of this game. Um, what? How do you know anybody is confirmed town? On March 24 2010 11:57 ~OpZ~ wrote: Okay...I'm going to say this again. We don't need an exact definite decision against nukes. I think our biggest worry will be people about to be lynched firing off their nukes anyway. That's the kind of stunt I would pull. Wait. So you claim so much that the ToD is like some fucking ceiling of death 1 foot over our heads, and how we should lynch people and try not to do any major counter nukings, random nukes, etc. Then you fucking say you would fucking fire off a random nuke if you’re about to be lynched? Are you even reading what you’re saying? If you’re truly town, you wouldn’t fire off a nuke, even if you’re about to be lynched. On top of that, since it’s a majority ends the vote or 48 hours, it’s not even guaranteed that you’d be lynched when you fire this nuke. Do you see the problem with this at all? Going to play D2 some, will be back later maybe to read some of the few replies since I last refreshed. | ||
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As to the idea of retaliation against a player who has an itchy trigger finger, we have the perfect form of retaliation. We lynch them. Or to put it more bluntly Any player launching a nuke against another without at the very least providing coherent argument for doing so will be lynched. Furthermore the only instance whereby we would launch against a player who acts in this way would be if we already have a good candidate for lynching, then we will nuke or multiple nuke them (I am of the opinion that 2 ought to be enough) To get things started off in the voting section I am going to be Voting ~OpZ~ His post earlier on both seemed different in style to the way he posted in the last game and also was riddled with subtle "I am town" choice of wording, something I consciously made an effort to do in the last game I was mafia so guess I'll go along with my instinct here. Made an error in quoting. I did not say this, so don't misconstrue this part as what I have said. | ||
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On March 24 2010 19:01 Ace wrote: Phrujabz is being replaced by Bill Murray. Remember Day 1 ends March 25th, 12AM ET as of now. oh shi- | ||
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Will post something about what has just been posting. | ||
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On March 25 2010 06:22 Zona wrote: Wait - did you just claim masons with Abenson? Because I presume you did read the rules and otherwise wouldn't be talking to him privately. I'm willing to switch my vote to someone else if you clarify this claim, at least for day 1. The problem is I'm not sure if the town's momentum can be changed. Wait. Where did he even RC Mason? Don't be so assuming. | ||
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On March 25 2010 06:28 Zona wrote: He has claimed that him and Abenson are "confirmed town". He also implies that he has spoken with Abenson, and speaking out of thread with other players is explicitly prohibited unless your role allows it. Now mafia can speak with each other as well but it'd be pretty dumb for them to reveal that. So the conclusion to be reached is a role with mason abilities. Except he could be lying about the whole thing. If he's going to RC, let him do it himself. Don't assume he's a certain role because that's just the way things have been done before or that it'd be dumb for a different role who has the same ability to do that [This is a tricky game for the second part]. Don't be so assuming that people who say they did one thing or can do one thing actually can do that one thing. Abenson hasn't even confirmed that they spoke to each other. Are there any rules against lying to people that you've communicated outside with anyone? The rules only state that outside communicate is not allowed, not claims of such. Until he makes a role claim himself, we can't go anywhere with it really as it could be a ploy to just shift votes away temporarily and force a no lynch. On top of that He hasn't even responded to my post where I specifically point out how he would use nukes just to save himself and how he in general was acting scummish. If he elected to not even bother to read that, then he hasn't even read your post which specifically pointed this out, and instead, his only post after that is trying to get Abenson off the lynch train. | ||
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On March 25 2010 06:48 Zona wrote: I didn't assume that his role was entirely just a Mason. I clarified with my subsequent post that his claim involved a role with mason abilities. Of course anyone can lie. But I'm willing to put of lynching those who role claim right away as: - the claims can be tested easily later - there's still a fuckton of other inactive players that are as much deadweight as Abenson was. I do agree Abenson needs to confirm that the spoke with each other. But it would be pretty silly for OpZ to throw himself out there for Abenson if they weren't on the same team. I totally agree how his earlier post to use nukes if he was lynched was an anti-town declaration. Still, I think the claim, once confirmed by Abenson, is enough to put me off voting for them day 1. Of course we should keep a very close eye on them for the coming days. And the way we resolve this is generally, we lynch one. First day roleclaims are the shittiest thing ever as they detract discussion. If Abenson and OpZ are on the same side as you imply, why not lynch one and we get the validity of the other? The claims can be tested later yeah, but what if we simply don't have time later due to future complications? It'd be better to get rid of one now and then now where the other stands. | ||
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On March 25 2010 06:49 Zona wrote: As to elaborate on why I'm willing to overlook an anti-town statement. Players on TL are on average, pretty bad. Looking through past games, you see townies all over the place making horrible statements with very bad ideas. It's something you have to keep in mind, playing here. Otherwise most of the players in most games would be instant lynch targets. But at least the ones who want to absolve themselves of suspicion will at least make some attempt at replying rather than letting it slide by. This type of behavior doesn't go unnoticed and makes people look scummy as it looks like they're trying to dodge the question, especially when somebody else has brought it up and it still hasn't been replied to. | ||
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On March 25 2010 06:53 Nikon wrote: Assuming, they're masons, can we be sure that they're only 2? There probably is a third person in the circle. Just saying... Would you like to roleclaim too so we can have this discussion about you the next day? | ||
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On March 25 2010 07:10 ~OpZ~ wrote: Because the mafia will just kill the other confirmed townie at night time? It really doesn't matter, I suppose. But you are highly suspect to me right now. With their super pro KP of 1 when we most likely have medics? | ||
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On March 25 2010 07:20 Zona wrote: This is a TERRIBLE idea from the POV of the town. If you lynch one just to test their claim and it turns out they were indeed masons, you just removed their beneficial power, as the remaining mason is effectively just a normal town member afterwards. Or if there were more than 2, removing one from their circle removes a tremendous amount of benefit that they could have derived from an extra person in the discussion. And if you retort that having 3 people in a circle is almost the same as 2, all I can do is shake my head. The mason advantage is often dismissed too easily, but it's really the same advantage that mafia typically have, on a smaller scale (other than the nightkill). The big mafia advantage is information (they know their team) and coordination, contrasting directly with the town disadvantage of LACK of information, and lack of coordination. A mason group grants a small group of town members this advantage, which can be powerful if used correctly. Also, this is DAY 1. It's not too late to wait to test things, and it's far too early to lynch claimed roles. I don't like how you've totally developed tunnel vision on the two and won't consider anything else, especially on day 1. If you want to talk about anti-town or scummy behavior, there's some right here. Tunnel vision? Who are we going to lynch? Highest votes are L and Abenson. I don't feel we should lynch L as he may have some information from all this when he comes back. Who else am I supposed to focus on when OpZ has been making such contradictory claims and dodging posts that call him out? Especially considering if OpZ and Abenson are in fact masons: Abenson replied what....twice? three times? He may not even roleclaim as Mason either. Some great advantage we have. I only call out behavior that seems anti, and other than people not posting at all, OpZ has been making contradictions in his posts that needs to be called upon. I'd do the same to anybody else if I catch it, it's just that OpZ has been making glaringly huge ones which others have noticed as well. It's not tunnel vision at all, it's just pointing out OpZ stupidity and wanting other people's opinions on it. | ||
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On March 25 2010 07:27 Zona wrote: I am suggesting RebirthOfLegend, since he is the next best lurker. However, with less than 6 hours to go, I do think it will have to be Abenson (or L), which is against my wishes. How about this - if you are online, reading, and willing to change your vote, post! Quote this post and reply if you must. We need to consider if we have enough town members to change who the majority will be, or else we have to settle for Abenson or L. I'm perfectly fine with lynching an inactive if you truly believe Abenson can make a difference in this supposed mason circle. | ||
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On March 25 2010 07:28 XeliN wrote: I'm going to ##vote Elemenope . He has contributed alot and from what I have read I don't see how it is possible that he would argue for lynching one of OpZ and Abenson, now we know they are confirmed, from a pro-town perspective. Other than that I would switch to voting for the least active poster if it means getting a majority. Because we don't know they're confirmed town. Wow, that was easy. | ||
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On March 25 2010 07:54 ~OpZ~ wrote: Dodge posts that call me out? I'm in biology right now. I'm assuming Abenson is in Highschool, because he isn't on late, and never posts before 3p.m. What haven't I responded to thats been logical? I've defended myself plenty vs you. You just seem to want me dead. Tunnel Vision was a good tearm? When I first talked about your anti-town revenge nuke sentiment. On March 24 2010 12:32 Elemenope wrote: When Zona also pointed this out. On March 24 2010 12:45 Zona wrote: Your first reply back. On March 24 2010 15:35 ~OpZ~ wrote: Your vote on L On March 25 2010 02:22 ~OpZ~ wrote: Your post saying Abenson is townie. On March 25 2010 06:15 ~OpZ~ wrote: In none of these did you even address the issue of revenge nuking due to a lynch nor addressing the point that waiting a day to lynch a second nuker is an idiotic plan that doesn't do anything meaningful for ToD. Dodging was a good term? Unless of course you take bio classes that last almost 24 hours. In that case, let me commend your school for having such diligent students. | ||
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On March 25 2010 07:56 Iaaan wrote: I propose that, in order to extend the day, someone without nukes could launch a fake nuke. Thoughts? I was going to write a bit more, but I figured I should bring up the idea for discussion first. There's a whole set of problems with this. | ||
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On March 25 2010 08:29 ~OpZ~ wrote: Revenge nuking due to lynching me? I'm sure someone voting for me will be mafia, so taking one out will make me feel better. More information for the town right? You said that yourself. Death=information. I'm not arguing this point further. Those are my sentiments. I know I'm town, just because you want me dead does not make me mafia. Waiting a day to nuke? Okay, What I meant here is simple, I just didn't fully express the idea. After they launch the nuke and it hits, we will see how much the ToD increases. I hadn't further elaborated, because I was more concerned with my own pending possible lynch. Not so subtle sarcasm is sexy, do it some more baby, ooooh yea. The problem with the revenge-nuke that I have is that it's faulty, since if we knew who a scum was, we'd by lynching that person. Do you understand? Making anti-town sentiments is exactly the opposite of what we need. It's not that I necessarily want you dead, but if you post something anti-town and don't follow up or clarify what you mean if it's ambiguous, it poses problems. | ||
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Read the rules? Jesus christ. | ||
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Yeah, you are missing something. | ||
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Are you that blind? | ||
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On March 25 2010 09:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: Abenson....Can you please post something...Atleast ACKNOWLE my defense of you? This. | ||
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On March 25 2010 11:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: There's nothing we should do about Opz and Abenson right now except take Opz's word for it Abenson seems to be entirely worthless no matter what team he is on, might as well just leave him as another body in the way of the mafia. Who knows, maybe he will actually help out Opz a bit. I'd at least like a 'yes' though. It does seem that they are both masons, but a simple confirmation is enough. Though I suppose that the lack of a disagreement between the two can be a sign of confirmation and one that I will apparently have to accept for now =\ | ||
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On March 25 2010 11:57 Zona wrote: What I suggest is that we as a town place 10 or 11 votes on RoL. Then the moment the nuke is resolved, we can finish the lynch by placing the last 1 or 2 votes, or shift the votes away, in the slim chance that the nuke lands and Caller is mafia. Just glanced through as I'm about to play more D2 right now, but if the nuke lands, it goes to night with a no lynch if we don't have majority. | ||
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On March 25 2010 12:00 Abenson wrote: Note: I hereby confirm that I am indeed in a mason with ~OpZ~ Thank you for confirming. He's been active in terms of defending L early on in the game, when we were bickering whether or not to kill him day 1 Also, he seems to be quite intent on pushing for a lynch of random people, jumping from one person to the next This is after ~OpZ~ saved my ass and managed to convince many that I am town. It should also be noted that he voted for me, L, RoL, nemy off the top of my head. JSpazz's post count has been near the middle. He may be active, but he hasn't posted anything that I would count as extremely helpful. The only thing he has posted is his opinion on the matter and nothing analytic. Conclusion: Like ~OpZ~, I am hereby suggesting JSpazz as a lynch victim. I am a bit suspicious of his L vote. In fact, I’m a bit suspicious of people who voted L. Yeah, he was inactive, and was going to be for the whole first day had RoL not launched a nuke, but we knew he was going to back and contributing (though I suppose this is debatable). On March 25 2010 12:00 johnnyspazz wrote: even if caller turns up mafia, we should lynch RoL for being dumb. he's obviously shown that he has no self control and there's a chance he has more than one nuke. we shouldn't give him the opportunity to launch another one. also i think if his nuke is a dud, we should lynch him anyway. This is what I’m worried about. RoL launched a nuke simply because he was getting majority votes. What’s to prevent him from launching another one if we end up voting him again, ie On March 25 2010 12:10 Zona wrote: RebirthOfLegend. Awesome player. And worse - you seem to stop caring about winning (helping your side win) the moment your "life" is in danger by making boneheaded moves There’s nothing to prevent him launching another nuke – worse yet, if we don’t establish his side tonight and he lives, we’re going to be having the same argument again the next time he does it [Though admittedly, it’s going to be heavily stacked against his favor for launching 2 nukes when he’s about to die]. I’m not even going to respond to BM’s attempt with real life countries. Funny video fishball. On March 25 2010 12:38 johnnyspazz wrote: yeah i have no idea why people like xelin are abstaining. no matter how innocent RoL might be, we can't excuse play that's anti-town. i'm using the FoS on Xelin because i think he's just trying to skate under the radar by abstaining. On March 25 2010 12:41 XeliN wrote: I'm trying to skate under no radar, I'm not going to vote for someone I believe to be innocent, and what is the FoS? This. I’ll say this right now. At this point, anybody who abstains is suspicious. There may be a variety of roles that interact with vote lists, and if you’re not on a votelist, then that information isn’t out there. We have no information about how many scum is out there. If there is a vote list checker, we can use that information to narrow down and figure out who’s scum. If you believe RoL is innocent, that’s fine, but may I add that you agreed to the lynch nukers plan especially since you did not want the nukers to get counter-nuked, unless you believe your optimal plan isn’t optimal. What I find even more funny, is that you’re fine with lynching him on the basis of inactivity, but retract your lynch when he launches a nuke? It’s not because he has no support from anybody – it’s because he launched a fucking nuke which is what we’re trying to avoid. Until I see a better plan to deal with nukers, I’m going to auto-lynch every person who launches a nuke that the town doesn’t support and that won’t change at all as unsupported nukes are dangerous to the town. On March 25 2010 13:30 Zona wrote: Okay. "The mafia and the town have to avoid nuking because..." and "saying that nuking is anti-town is fucking dumb." Am I the only one to see the contradiction here, in two sentences right next to each other? The town has to avoid nuking, but saying nuking is bad is dumb? In any case the town has gone through the reasoning very thoroughly already, and has come to the conclusion that nuking first is not a good idea for town members. To summarize: Caller's worth nuking because he was inactive, but you're NOT worth lynching because you were inactive. I am a bit confused about this too. If you had produced content prior to being lynched, then this wouldn’t have happened. The fact that people have 48 hours in total to provide content for the day means a lot. On March 25 2010 13:48 Zona wrote: Hey, if you're a medic, please read this: I don’t necessarily like this for various reasons, mainly a centralization of medics, not necessarily so much the ego of players. But I do agree that you have been generating a lot of good stuff and are a valid person to protect. Just keep in mind though that don’t go purely off post count for future possible protection as some people may post not a whole lot in terms of count, but can produce good points within a few. And some people just have different styles of posting, as I’m sure BM is going to be top poster coming soon tt On March 25 2010 13:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Just to respond to this real quick. It wasn't some amazing revelation. You must of clearly thought of the possibility that I was indeed scum or third party, but that adding an extra player for balance sake would most likely be a weak townie since it would have much less of an effect on the game. Since a simple pointing that out statement changed your mind it was just kind of like... like you didn't think of that already? Moment. Seemed like you might of regretted saying it. Maybe I was just thinking about it too much, who knows. It’s just that people have different hosting styles and he may not be accustomed to how much of a fgt Ace is when he doesn’t ward the jungle ;3 You missed the point, I said why are you lynching me for being inactive on a whim of sorts and I said that the reason caller was suspicious was NOT because of inactivity, but because of the content of his posts and what I would normally expect. He never mentioned being distracted by anything else like school, etc. He was just posting noncontent which is generally considered mafiaish behavior but he usually gets away with it because he is one of the players who works more behind the scenes. I suppose your claim is a bit more legitimate, though don’t other players too? It’d be nice to look at the other people who post in similar manners in addition to Caller. On March 25 2010 14:59 meeple wrote: I've said before that I don't agree usually with lynching most inactive, I mean it tells us nothing about the person or possible ties. I don't know why Zona was so pushy for it, since there are obviously some better targets when we consider that we have two basically confirmed townies and a better choice would be to sift through the votes for Abenson(yes I know I'm on that list...) and see who tried to push the bandwagon. The main premise behind lynching inactives is to generate discussion which gives us more tells to look at. If people aren’t posting, and we allow them to remain that way, then mafia can lurk amongst them and then we have to decide ‘Well, it could just be an inactive townie’ or ‘That guy’s scum’. If everybody’s posting content and such though, we have more to look at sort of like ‘here’s where you fucked up’. Having said that I'm rather glad that RoL launched the nuke... since it gives us a little more time to consider what the hell just went on here. There's no reason to lynch him for "being dumb" or not reading the rules to their fullest extent. It's kinda a weird game, and not really that similar to traditional mafia so of course there will be miscommunications. I’m a bit confused – I do hope that the *only* reason you’re glad is because it gives us more time to talk and not because we’ll have two people die today, both of which could’ve been avoided had the expected lynch target posted content earlier. If you’re glad that a nuke is in the air and is about to kill someone, then you know that we’ll have a few words as I seriously hope that you do not expect people to launch nukes everyday just so we can have an extra 24 hours of discussion. On March 25 2010 15:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Just to respond to you, I never agreed to that policy. It seemed really retarded. The town will never be on a 100% consensus for a lynch, let alone a nuke that [could] lose us the game. It seemed like a real bullshit cop out to me. and no lynching period was even dumber. Its a power we should utilize. Seriously? Who the fuck ever expects even 55% of the town to agree on nuking a single person? I think this is bullshit. It’s not that we need 100% or anything, nuke applications are almost the same as a lynch. If we need majority vote for the lynch, then we can apply the same mechanics to the nuke. We were going to get majority on Abenson until OpZ came in with a role claim, and although I may have been a bit hasty in saying that we should lynch Abenson and that would clear OpZ, as Vers said that mainly applies more to DTs who claim red, and since Abenson has posted confirmation, I’m willing to believe those two as truly being Masons. On March 25 2010 15:36 meeple wrote: Well... as this game goes on, that much is becoming more clear. It took some desperation to get a majority vote, so getting everyone to agree on a nuke is tough in any case. The issue with this though is that this is day 1 where we just throw out a lynch basically. While nukes are definitely put with more deliberation. For me... I'm going to change my vote to ##vote tree.hugger He has very few posts in the thread, and they center around lynching L because he'll be inactive. More than anything, I want him to step up and post more and defend himself. I do agree that this is something to look at and I’ll be looking through the thread as I go through the last 4 pages to see if he has posted. But this is a major thing – a nuke has gone off and people aren’t posting about it. This just shows that many people are equally inactive; at least L had a reason. I’ll take a look into people who had voted for L on the basis of inactivity and have not even put one original idea in their posts about the recent events. On March 25 2010 15:43 meeple wrote: I say I'm glad that the nuke is launched because it gives me more time to read and catch up and post before my ill-advised vote for Abenson goes through, but that was just kind of a selfish statement. I didn't mean that its better for the town if people nuke, and I've always been against early nukes so I don't support RoL's decision. Thank you for clarification, I’ll keep this in mind. On March 25 2010 15:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Anyway if you also act stingy with nukes you allow the Mafia to be more liberal with them later on, since there is no radiation threat yet. I’d just like to point out that, like Zona said, we have antinukes to deal with late game mafia nukes. On top of that – you seem to forget about the possible existence of a third party that wins if radiation threshold gets reached. If we use nukes in an effort to bump up ToD so that mafia can’t use nukes, then that allows a third party to be all ‘sup fgts, we win’ On March 25 2010 16:04 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Your whole argument seems to be based upon the idea that A) ToD is something that nobody wants to reach, so B) We should get the ToD up as fast as possible so that scum can’t use it to their advantage The problem with these two assumptions is that A) there may be in fact a third party that wants ToD to be reached, and B) scum can use *this* to their advantage, and claim “well, we are trying to forcefully rise up ToD to its max, right?” As for your claim about naming one suspicious thing besides not posting – this is mafia, isn’t this what early lynches are really based upon? Isn’t this what we *always* advocate in an effort to get people to post content and put their thoughts out there for us to look at? On March 25 2010 18:15 meeple wrote: Voting for RoL initially was based on the exact same logic as voting for L... they were both rather inactive, although L for different reasons. Why would you defend L so much, and yet when the idea came up to lynch RoL on the basis of inactivity you were all for it. The reason why people defend L is because exactly what you stated – he had a different reason out of his control (though I suppose it was his fault) that he couldn’t post while others who are inactive do not. How many situations come up that you do not know in advance that would require 48 hours of your time? On March 26 2010 01:03 ~OpZ~ wrote: Thoughts on Nemy/Jspazz versatile? I don’t have much to say about nemy other than that I can’t remember offhand any useful posts he’s made actually. If someone would like to point this out to the contrary, go ahead. As for johnny, it’s a bit iffy. But that’s mainly because of his early vote. To be honest, I don’t quite remember him that much either in terms of posts, so I’ll go back and try to see if I maybe forgot something out of these two players. On March 26 2010 01:20 haster27 wrote: My position is that unless there are clear suspect, we should maintain our vote on RoL. This is solely because of his nuke launch; had we not discussed that showing unwillingness to punish the player from non-consensus lynching will quickly collapse this Town into state of Wild Wild West? If we let him go off free, what prevents any random Townie or random Mafia from suddenly nuking someone with somewhat convincing reasoning? I agree. We have to construct order. We are day one, and we have a nuke in the air, and people still aren’t in agreement with each other in terms of how to handle this nuke. If we set down a solid foundation that remains flexible early on, we can always refer back to it and lynch/put suspicion on people who don’t follow this. I’m not necessarily saying we all need to act like sheep in this respect, but at the very least, I’d like to see a set of rules that we can all agree to follow, especially concerning nukes. If we have a policy that states “no nukes just because you are about to be lynched” that everybody agrees to follow, then when someone nukes when they’re about to be lynched, then we can just shoot it down without worry and lynch that person. We won’t have to devolve into 5 page discussions about someone’s innocence or guilt if we just follow these rules. On March 26 2010 03:13 Caller wrote: Having just returned from the task of overseeing the new construction of a Peace Plaza, I have returned to see my advisers frightened of this incoming missile. While I must return to finish the celebration of its opening (to which you are all invited to attend), I strongly recommend that one of our peaceful neighbors shoot down this abomination of peace with a lance of antinuke. If my people are able to survive this nuclear horror, then perchance you mayth see whyth I requestedth this so and why it is in all of our best interest to prevent the detonation and spread of the radiation. May God be With Us. I lol’d On March 26 2010 05:14 Bill Murray wrote: I would also like to propose Nikon as a next lynch candidate. He hasn't posted for about 10 pages, his ~4 posts have a combined less than 100 words, it is good to put the FoS on someone, and we can see if his Conspiracy buddies will come out of the woodworks to protect him and defend him. I am a bit surprised seeing this. I do feel that this is something to keep in mind. Though I believe the reasoning behind the lynching of RoL was because Abenson was Mason as per OpZ’s claim which was his previous vote. An attempt to save one mafia while revealing two is a very poor idea so it can be assumed that Abenson and OpZ are valid in their Mason claim. Since Nikon doesn’t believe L is scum, and that Abenson is more or less cleared of suspicion, I believe the only other thing he had to go with is RoL as I think he may have had 3 or 4 votes on him at that point? Keep in mind that you also had voted for RoL after Nikon voted, 7 minutes after too. On March 26 2010 05:42 L wrote: The simplest way is to use say something in the open that is qualified by something only Opz would know. Then again, I guess most people don't know anything to use in that manner. Granted the fact that this is a sc site, ask him to play some games, then develop a conditional based on the results of the games. If we went 5-0 i'm a dt if we went 4-1 i'm a townie if we went 3-2 i'm USSR and i have a billion nukes. You can easily get by the restrictions on PMs if you know you can code your information based on something that only the other player would know. I’m going to say that this is going against the spirit of the game. The whole point “No PMing” isn’t to simply avoid PMing. It’s to avoid outside communication *entirely*, whether it’s through methods of games, HoN lobbies, SC2 beta lobbies, shit like that. If Ace has a different opinion, then I’d like to see it, but I just feel that this is going against the whole no communication thing. On March 26 2010 05:46 L wrote: Oh yeah, ##Vote tree.hugger Kid clearly wanted to wagon me. I'd much prefer that we nuke the shit out of RoL and use anti-nukes on any retaliatory strikes. If he's town he shouldn't throw extra nukes out. If he's mafia, good. 2 seems like a good number of missiles. His reasoning was to vote you to “avoid the eventual abrasive spam that will descend on this thread in two days time.” Second vote in? I’m surprised you haven’t said anything about Amber who initiated it saying you’d be an easy target. Although I feel he is suspicious as I’ll mention a bit later, I’m just concerned that you don’t talk about Amber at all, though I suppose it’s because you think he’s garbage. On March 26 2010 06:50 L wrote: So essentially nuking RoL allows us to ask, as a town, a question to him: Are you green and believe Caller's red? If so, take the nuke in the face, die, and that's that. If you're red and retaliate? We will shoot down ALL your missiles, including the one directed at Caller. This seems to have claim, though I think if you truly believed this, you would’ve launched the nuke yourself and prolonged the day by another 24 hours, either that or you’re afraid that you’ll get killed like RoL. Lynching RoL and nuking tree.hugger is precisely what I do not want to do; checking if we can change votes is a barometer of activity, for one. Additionally, if tree.hugger is indeed mafia, then he's likely to throw off as many retaliatory nukes as possible. Note how the lurker responds nearly immediately when called out. RoL by contrast might even be out of nukes by this point; between him and tree.hugger you need to assess if you believe RoL is town. If you do, your plan is concretely inferior by miles. I do think it’s a bit suspicious that tree.hugger comes out shortly after his name is mentioned by L. When Meeple or Zona [I believe it was Zona] mentioned him, I would’ve expected for tree.hugger to at least acknowledge something other than holding some type of grudge against L for any previous game. And from what I can see from the next page or two, he hasn’t even posted anything else other than having a hatred for L which can be solved by discrediting him. If I'm 99% certain that you're mafia, but I can't get the town to listen to me, its actually in my best interest to nuke against the town's will and then take the lynch in the face. That is NOT the type of incentive scheme we want going. We need to concretely dissuade ANYONE from throwing a nuke by making the penalty as close to "everyone loses" as possible. Except there may be a third party out there that relies on this as mentioned before. I do agree with the general nuke RoL sentiment and lynch tree hugger, though I don’t believe we could get enough swing for it barring another nuke and some time to discuss. It is a very solid plan and it seems you’ve given good thought into it. On March 26 2010 08:29 L wrote: Nope. And since I see no rules against this: ##nuke: L I have no nukes, sup. While I'd love to keep the fact that I have no nukes a secret to dissuade morans from throwing nuclear bomblets at my precious face, I will have to do what I have to do. If we ever need a day extended, I can now bomb myself. Oh wow. This is pretty ballsy. I wish it were on someone else because I’m not sure if Ace will allow it like haster has said, though I do believe that you do in fact have no nukes and we can use that to our advantage to extend the day if needed. On March 26 2010 09:04 tree.hugger wrote: There will be consequences for stupid bandwagon votes. Also, seriously, L comes back and the everybody immediately goes down on bended knee and swears fealty to our returned savior? Good grief. This unwavering loyalty to the second coming of L is nauseating. The bro got banned for being annoying and unhelpful, as per the usual, and if anyone needs evidence otherwise, checking the last few mafia games he's played should prove this quality beyond a shadow of a doubt. And yet, L comes back, full of the typical self-righteous revenge, and immediately his word becomes gospel. If anything, those who jumped so readily on L's bandwagon of confusion are to be most distrusted. He was banned for being a douche in the healthcare reform thread. Hardly related to mafia. On March 26 2010 09:06 Ace wrote: General! The nuke from Rebirthoflegend heading towards Caller has been shot down! We do not know who did it, but we know that the shot came from Japan! This is something to keep in mind. L(2) tree.hugger RebirthofLegend Abenson(1) Amber[LighT] Rebirthoflegend(15) Zona haster27 Elemenope Nikon Bill Murray ~OpZ~ Iaaan JeeJee Abenson Fishball johnnyspazz d3_crescentia iNfuNdiBuLuM Versatile nemy Bill Murray(1) Caller tree.hugger(2) Meeple L Also something to keep in mind with these vote lists. If you are a role that can make use of this, use it obviously when night comes. RebirthofLegend (Mexico, pro town, Vengeful Townie) now dead! However, due to his role abilities he has one last action he can perform! We move to night after he decides! (6 hour deadline) I’m going to lawl if he kills Caller. | ||
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On March 26 2010 12:36 johnnyspazz wrote: then it would be a good idea to save me since i have nukes and anti-nukes that i can't use until day 2 wat | ||
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As for the L vs whoever crap: stop being so clouded by emotions. Holy shit. People can be dick to others, but that doesn't make them any less town than others. Yeah, L may have a history of running buses, but like I said earlier - if you think he's running an unjustified bus, attack his argument, not the person. A lot of people are confrontational, but we can't just attack L because he seems to act like a douche while responding to everybody else with logic. If you feel that wrongly about L, look past the name, and look at the posts for flaws. He's already posted way more than some of our lurkers. If you think somebody's wrong, attack his arguments. You don't even have completely destroy the argument, just put doubt in people's minds so that player doesn't get bused. If we go back to the first lynch, may I remind people that Abenson was about to get lynched, then OpZ comes out with a mason claim. And what happened? Abenson didn't get lynched. Enough people were willing to take their votes from Abenson due to OpZ claiming mason, and then put their votes on RoL, an inactive [though I realize he may have had work/school/whatever; though I don't necessarily see how that could've taken up a majority of the time]. Anyway, point is - despite how L may seem like a douche, other people may seem equally confrontational, just show how L's argument is flawed and people will notice. As for the nuke resolutions - I'm a bit worried about the one directed at L. I just feel people are wanting to let him die because they hate him. Regardless, tree.hugger is lynch priority tomorrow. As for johnnyspazz's claims about his nukes/antinukes usage, if someone saves him, it's something to keep in mind. On March 27 2010 04:37 JeeJee wrote: one consistent stance of his is that of anti-nukes. now, since we know rol is townie, the nuke launched at him was in good faith, and not to shut him up about his suspicious of, say, xelin. What? Did I miss something? On March 27 2010 05:57 Zona wrote: There is a minor benefit to letting L die - we can get some insight into the earlier votes on him when he was banned. But this is a minor benefit when weighed against the rest of the factors - saving antinukes, nullifying out-of-nowhere-nukes, etc, which have been discussed over and over again (and without agreement). I think this is a very very minor benefit [though I suppose others who believe L should just not talk see it as a major benefit]. We already have one anti-nuke used, and we're not sure how many we have left and this is only day one. Unsupported nukes, I'm all in favor of nuking the aggressor, as Iaaan and L are, but he has threatened to counternuke which is clearly antitown and it also wastes more anti-nukes =\ Regardless of the outcome - my first lynch target is going to be tree.hugger due to him claiming responsibility and because he launched an unsupported nuke. | ||
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On March 27 2010 06:50 tree.hugger wrote: To be fair, this all started with a debate over whether or not the person who launched the first anti-nuke should come forward. That was an argument about facts and strategy, and would've remained so had it not escalated. I think we're both mutually responsible for that one. Eventually it got to a point where it was derailing the thread, and I was seriously starting to doubt L's intentions in pursuing a strategy that would almost certainly get an innocent townie killed, at least in my view. Somewhere along the line here, L apparently 'eviscerated' my arguments. I'm repeating myself, but there were other reasons for my nuke beyond thinking L was an arrogant asshole. If you believe this to be in the best interests of the town, so be it. Other reasons beyond thinking L is arrogant? I only see I launched the nuke for two reasons: - The first was that L had it coming. If he's town, and the nuke kills him, then at least we'll be spared his incessant whining and opining until the next mafia game. (and he invariably will try to kill me off immediately, but that's a fight for another day...). I know he probably won't change, but I was getting tired of him anyway. - The second reason was that I'm curious to see if L is mafia or not. About the only way I can force a rolecheck is by nuking the dude. If he's saved, hopefully enough people will see the light, and we'll also get the name of one of the mafia-aligned countries. Third reason: As I've said multiple times throughout the thread, when L is posting, important town discussions literally get shut down, and L moved the discussion to whatever inane thing he thinks is important. L really doesn't help the town much at all. these three reasons spread over two posts. 1) Invalid 2) So if we're curious about someone being scum, we should just launch a nuke and ask for it to hit because we can't force a rolecheck either way? 3) Then shift the focus away from that. If you think he's being a detriment to the town, state so - use CAPS bold giant red coloring to get attention. The only reason why L has the ability to derail threads is because people fall into his 'word traps'. L can't derail a thread by himself, the player list isn't just L, L, L, L, L. | ||
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On March 27 2010 08:58 johnnyspazz wrote: forget what i said about my day 2 abilities, i dont have anything special besides nuking. i'm just going to save myself, obviously, and save L, because i dont think nuking someone for personal reasons is smart. i'm letting the ToD stay at zero. whoa, wait, this is bullshit. It's fucking obvious you have a role other than just having nukes/anti nukes. If not, you wouldn't have said anything about Day 2 roles, or that you didn't read your PM correctly. | ||
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On March 27 2010 09:05 johnnyspazz wrote: i feel that is better to have more people alive longer for more discussion since mafia only have 1 kp my special ability was actually a special handicap where i can't nuke or anything until day 2. Pro tip: we aren't in day 2 yet. | ||
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ctrl+f'd his posts, saw he generally started posting during the day at around 3-4KST in this thread, he stated he was suspicious of me with no real reasoning, and he has been very inactive due to recent turn of events. My guess it's another one of those "I'm curious" ala tree.hugger. The guy's only reasonable contribution is the suggestion of insta-lynch for someone who nukes unsupported. He then goes into an argument with fishball over a hypothetical situation or wifom or something. He puts a vote on Abenson, citing that inactivity is something that can't be allowed. He then abstains his vote, and later puts it on me, reasoning - because I advocated lynching Abenson to see if OpZ was in fact telling the truth or not. I later stated this was because at the time, all we had was OpZ's word on the matter, Abenson hadn't confirmed. Abenson later comes in, votes, goes off, then comes back later confirming. As such, I stated that I'm perfectly fine with the claim that OpZ and Abenson are in fact Masons and I have cleared them of suspicion for now. Keep in mind that he himself suspected OpZ for being scum based on language OpZ used, and then retracted his suspicion when OpZ made the roleclaim. I made similar retractions, only after the other party (which is pretty fucking important in making a Mason claim), responded as such. He votes RoL, then later removes his vote, even though he was the one who advocated lynching of people who fire nukes. Really? He hasn't contributed anything of late since these more recent nukes which makes me highly suspicious of him. Basically, my instinct is that - a) he has proposed two ideas, one being that we autovote lynch unsupported nukes, the other being that inactivity should be punished b) he has accused me c) he starts posting at around 3-4KST and continues afterwards into the evening and d) he abstained the vote on the unsupported launch of RoL, and is currently contributing nothing to town discussion; two things in direct opposite of what his main points were earlier leads me to believe that he launched this nuke, especially given that the person who launched this is anonymous and can't be held accountable for it. Either way - FoS on XeliN, whether he launched this nuke or not. | ||
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On March 27 2010 10:55 XeliN wrote: What does FoS mean? and no, I did not launch this nuke on you, I personally would be happy to see it hit though. Finger of Suspicion. Perhaps you'd like to explain your actions then about The guy's only reasonable contribution is the suggestion of insta-lynch for someone who nukes unsupported. He then goes into an argument with fishball over a hypothetical situation or wifom or something. He puts a vote on Abenson, citing that inactivity is something that can't be allowed. He then abstains his vote, and later puts it on me, reasoning - because I advocated lynching Abenson to see if OpZ was in fact telling the truth or not. I later stated this was because at the time, all we had was OpZ's word on the matter, Abenson hadn't confirmed. Abenson later comes in, votes, goes off, then comes back later confirming. As such, I stated that I'm perfectly fine with the claim that OpZ and Abenson are in fact Masons and I have cleared them of suspicion for now. Keep in mind that he himself suspected OpZ for being scum based on language OpZ used, and then retracted his suspicion when OpZ made the roleclaim. I made similar retractions, only after the other party (which is pretty fucking important in making a Mason claim), responded as such. He votes RoL, then later removes his vote, even though he was the one who advocated lynching of people who fire nukes. Really? He hasn't contributed anything of late since these more recent nukes which makes me highly suspicious of him. since you seem to have time to dodge questions and ask questions that could be googled. | ||
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On March 27 2010 11:34 Bill Murray wrote: I am thinking less ToD = more chance to win. I am also thinking L won the fucking game for the town last time. Killing him is hugely anti-town. If you are going to bring past games into this, does anybody need to remind you that L said he would kill you every single game you are in? Either way, these nukes are bullshit, and are definitely suspect, and this last nuke is pretty much complete bullshit, though that may be my personal bias. | ||
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On March 27 2010 11:42 Bill Murray wrote: LMNOP is hugely pro-town with his walls of text, but noone believes L is except me he is playing the exact same way he did last game, and if he is red, hurray, if he is not, whatever im going to save him if you all don't like it, or want to lynch me, go ahead. i'll withhold my nukes if i'm lynched I hope you realize that verse said she would nuke, I believe. You're wasting antinukes if that's the case. | ||
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On March 27 2010 11:45 L wrote: You realize she's not afk, just talked in the other game, and ignored the entire NK/time running down conversation going on here, right? Intentional lurking and a hugely anti-town threat to nuke. Why would you let her of all people dictate town policy on something that was already agreed upon? How does any of what I said relate to her dictating town policy? | ||
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On March 27 2010 11:51 L wrote: Her being the deciding factor on where town wants to place anti-nukes seems to be a bit of a town policy issue, no? I don't think we as a town had even decided whether to use anti nukes or not as the issue was split with some people supporting your death while others had wanted you to live. I think the fact that it was pretty much down to the wire for your save also shows this. Now, Verse is going to shoot a nuke if she does follow up with her claim, and we're back to the same situation, just down an antinuke which is necessary late game. On top of that, with only one anti-nuke a day, BM can't save you after that. Can you really claim that it was in the town decision to save you if you don't get saved after that second one? Although I'm glad that you're alive since you don't really offend me or anything and I do believe that despite some cases of self-preservation, you do make good points, you have to also see the situation that we're down an antinuke and we still have the possibility that you'll die from Verse/anybody else willing to fire a nuke. I can only hope your power is strong enough to offset the loss of the antinuke. | ||
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On March 27 2010 12:13 tree.hugger wrote: Wrong, we have to lynch North Korea. Also, since my nuke didn't land, I won't be voting for myself tomorrow. I regret that a little, because I was honest, and I wanted people to know my sincerity, but oh well. This is the game that keeps on giving. Yes, let's lynch NK! So, who are we lynching again? On March 27 2010 12:10 L wrote: We should kill him before he can nuke again. If he is indeed mafia, there would be nothing stopping him from attempting to rub another out. Worst case; he absorbs anti-nukes. I'm not entirely certain that he's mafia given how ballsy his move was, but the only thing I'm sure of is that we shouldn't be pussies about counter-nuking people who don't agree with our anti-nuke position. If we aren't firm on that point, we simply can't dissuade nukes. Clarification: by "him", I assume you mean tree.hugger? | ||
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On March 27 2010 12:17 tree.hugger wrote: Well yeah, therein lies the problem. Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. A remark we can't exactly trust, especially given the situation that transpired. On March 27 2010 12:18 L wrote: Well, you're looking at this from the perspective of a game without information; Anti-nuking now instead of later means we have more information prior to mafia being able to start their kill machine going. Given the method of lynching is by majority vote, it means that more information early provides us with more analysis for lynches during a time in which the volume of mafia input is minimal. Additionally, yeah, the town had spoken pretty clearly. The only people who presented a strong opposition to the save as far as I can tell are tree.hugger, Versatile, Iaaan and Fishball. I'm probably missing someone here, but look at that list: 3 of the members there are people who initially wanted to get rid of me during my ban duration which was an obvious anti-town move. By contrast, players who are relatively confirmed or confirmed, spazz and opz, for instance, were against letting shit hit. If someone throws a subsequent nuke in the face of the entire town saying "no more nukes" (except to kill people nuking, imo) its a pretty clear sign of mafia intention. So if Versatile IS town, actually going through with her threat now might suck up another anti-nuke, and will result in her death either way. If she's mafia, she doesn't really give a shit. She's very high on a huge spectrum of players' radars already. Either way, I still don't understand this "anti-nukes are better later!!!" statement. They're good to stop town directed hits always. The more people we keep alive who are town oriented, the stronger the town direction during lynches is. The more townies who die, the more nukes, anti-nukes, and abilities we lose. The only thing I don't understand is the last part. The other 3 paragraphs make sense except I don't necessarily agree that she's high on player's suspect's list, but the last part is that the counter to the 'antinukes are better later' statement is that we should always use these to stop town-directed hits. The issue with this, which I'm sure you know, is that it's very hard to prove that it's town-directed, especially on day one, unless you'd like to enlighten my feeble mind about this. | ||
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On March 27 2010 12:29 XeliN wrote: Oh I see, skimmed the quotes before yours and saw me mentioned like 3 times so figured you were jumping on Elemenopes suspicions. Since you're around here, perhaps you'd like to explain? The guy's only reasonable contribution is the suggestion of insta-lynch for someone who nukes unsupported. He then goes into an argument with fishball over a hypothetical situation or wifom or something. He puts a vote on Abenson, citing that inactivity is something that can't be allowed. He then abstains his vote, and later puts it on me, reasoning - because I advocated lynching Abenson to see if OpZ was in fact telling the truth or not. I later stated this was because at the time, all we had was OpZ's word on the matter, Abenson hadn't confirmed. Abenson later comes in, votes, goes off, then comes back later confirming. As such, I stated that I'm perfectly fine with the claim that OpZ and Abenson are in fact Masons and I have cleared them of suspicion for now. Keep in mind that he himself suspected OpZ for being scum based on language OpZ used, and then retracted his suspicion when OpZ made the roleclaim. I made similar retractions, only after the other party (which is pretty fucking important in making a Mason claim), responded as such. He votes RoL, then later removes his vote, even though he was the one who advocated lynching of people who fire nukes. Really? He hasn't contributed anything of late since these more recent nukes which makes me highly suspicious of him. I'd at least like a basis of reasoning behind your actions, nothing more. | ||
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I'm glad the missile towards me was shot down, but what the fuck at these other missiles. Admittedly, both of these are rather expected given the L was saved situation. I do think that L's pro-town and these nukes toward him are out of spite rather than for scum tells; I'd like to see L saved, but that's really up to the town and if they feel we need to save antis or not. Keep this in mind: NK may shoot another nuke tomorrow; he has anonymous nuking powers and has been shown to be clearly antitown since nobody has come up to state "hey, I'm NK, this is why I shot at Elemenope". As for the Amber-d3 inactivity: there's a lot of people who I haven't seen actually post real content about these last missiles, namely: d3 - posted just a few lines xelin - posted explaining his reasoning behind his day one pre-lynch actions Amber - hasn't posted nearly anything about these nukes Caller - hasn't posted anything at all I believe since RoL's missile was shot down Zona - This is a big surprise in my opinion. He hasn't posted at all since March 27 2010 05:57. 3 missiles has been shot since then, where are you Zona? Fishball - Posted somewhat early on, but recent posts have been lacking in terms of content other than showing how L is hypocritical/a douche/whatever Nikon - Last main post was during the 'should Japan come out and claim' nemY - Hasn't posted anything worth of content since his vote to lynch RoL. We have had what, 6 missiles shot by now? It shouldn't be that difficult to have something to talk about. Even if it's a "hey, I don't agree with this missile getting shot down" or whatever or "OMG THERE'S AN NK WITH ANONYMOUS NUKES". | ||
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On March 28 2010 05:42 Amber[LighT] wrote: I have nothing to say about the recent nuke-happy players. As I quoted from the bottom of Page 53 I asked a sarcastic question. What more can I ask since the town as completely abandoned playing this game with any structure. How about what you think we should do with these nukes in the air? | ||
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On March 28 2010 10:23 L wrote: Nah, you should still be nuked immediately, as should Versatile and Xelin. The fact that town is going to let a backlog of people build up essentially means every subsequent nuke is more likely to hit as anti-nukes get scarce, and lynches are farther and farther off. This is pretty much what I said would happen in my first post, but no one bothered to listen. I assume by 'you', you mean tree.hugger/he, unless there's something I missed. | ||
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To Xelin, the jump to accusing you for launching the nuke was simply based off your vote for me considering nobody else had voted for me IIRC. Coupled with the fact that this nuke was out of the blue makes it easier. I just attempted to find other things to support this claim, and I would've been left wondering until countries were revealed/your death, but you RCed anyway, even after stating that you wouldn't hide your nuke. As for your claim that 'do you really think this ability [the one to fire an anonymous nuke during the day with no retaliation or trace] would go to mafia', it's quite the anti-town move when used. Especially when tagged along that you didn't explain your nuke until after it was shot down. We had stated that any unsupported town nukes are clearly anti-town, and you had even come up with a plan to lynch these nukers, yet you go off and shoot one your own, anonymously so that nobody could track who shot it, and then you attempt to say that this ability is a pro-town ability going from pure logic on the two points of the ability is too weak for scum and Ace wouldn't give this ability to scum? Then I read some more and then I see a nuke by OpZ towards Tree.Hugger. Whether this nuke gets shot down or not, I agree with Versatile and Zona that we should wait out the day and night. As Zona said, randomly shot nukes are more likely to hit town than mafia due to the number advantage town has and the fact that day 1 suspicions are just that: suspicions. We have nothing to go off other than intuition. As for haster, although this would be a resolution to the the nuke launchers, one thing you have to keep in mind is this: our ToD has increased by one stage when the second nuke landed. If we go by stages, such as Very Low [the start], Low [where we are at now], it is reasonable to assume that perhaps the next is medium, then high, very high, game over, or something similar. Now, Ace may have varying number of nukes for each of these, but the fact that two nukes have landed and we go into low is kind of unsettling. Along with the fact that if the nuke from OpZ falls and then someone nukes Xelin, we have 4 nukes that have landed I believe, then we're in medium already at day 1. So much for keeping a low ToD, eh? Regardless of the retaliation or lack thereof from treehugger, I don't believe nuking Xelin is the right course of action due to ToD. I had thought that Ace would assume we would launch many nukes considering it's TL and not all of us are the best at responding to personal attacks, but unless he has more than just five stages of ToD before game over, then we're in for a very quick game over. We also have to keep in mind that there may be a third party out there with the intention of having this happen as long as he or she lives. I'm of the opinion that we should just let this resolve how it is now, shoot down the nuke/leave it alone, preferably save it due to this ToD issue which is going to be a major issue at this rate. Go to night. Then come back the next day with much more information than we had the previous day. So basically: no more nukes | ||
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The only other thing I see for a reasoning is the omitted various pieces of information in your nice big posts, I'd say that you're red. Could you perhaps show these omitted pieces? With the nuke post, we are at moderate already. I hardly see how I didn’t make it clear that our ToD has increased by a stage when we hit 2 nukes. Though seemingly, nobody cares about ToD anymore even though that was what the whole central discussion at the start was about. As for the claim of increasing ToD to very high or whatever so that scum can’t use nukes – no. I feel that this is very unsafe because 1) we’re not sure how many antis we have to stop these nukes in the air. 2) There may also be a third party that launches the nuke in an effort to get a quick win, and 3) then we give up our day-kill options to just lynching. As for shinbi’s tiered list, the iaaan comments are interesting. Though I don’t necessarily agree with the versatile comments for her to be a tier 1 suspect. As for the tier 2 suspects: The nukes by Nikon and xelin are quite uncalled for. I don’t see the logic behind them at all other than “I have this small bit of information, so I’m going to nuke to confirm.” As for d3 and fishball, both have been quite lurking/inactive and not contributing. The votes on L are quite suspicious and are something to keep in mind. I’d keep my eye on those two as well. Same deal with Caller, infun, and nemy. Let me state that inactivity is very bad, and it keeps the town guessing whether the scum are lurking amongst the inactives or amongst the actives. We’ve had this day go on for a long time – there isn’t a point where you could not discuss something. Even some small input is better than no input. Oh just refreshed the page and I see that Nikon says the nuke is fake. First off, what the fuck? There were many people obviously against the nuke and on top of that, there’s quite a decent time frame for an antinuke to get fired. So potentially, you just wasted an anti-nuke. How can you even assume that the nuke *hasn’t* been shot down already? | ||
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On March 31 2010 14:05 XeliN wrote: ##Nuke Zona## !! Seriously? | ||
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No, seriously, what the hell? Is this some elaborate prank that I'm not aware of? | ||
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On April 01 2010 02:09 XeliN wrote: Also Elemenope had a lot to say at a quite early stage and yet now the only post I have seen him make is a comparatively short "are you kidding Vote Xelin" one. A mafia who has succesfully created the illusion of being both active and pro-town who now feels comfortable lurking in the shadows to respond sparingly? What am I supposed to do, somehow post while sleeping? The final day, no new information was shown other than Nikon being dumb and wasting an anti nuke. I was around for the night post to be thrown up and saw that you nuked Zona about 5 minutes after and voted you. Not that difficult a leap in logic. As for the current situation: The possible third party discussion Mafia can kill 1 player per night no matter how many of them are alive. When I first read this, it seemed that Ace is allowing scum to have a max of one night kill, even if there's one or even if there's 2 billion of them. I think if he wanted one kill per player, instead of 'no matter how many of them are alive', he would've said 'per player alive' or some wording to that effect. So if we assume this, then we assume there's a third party unless vigi roles are allowed night one kills. In which case, I'm going to have to scold the vigi for making such an error to kill either one of those two players, especially if he only had a one-shot ability. Meeple and Amber Not sure why either was killed quite honestly other than the fact that they were really as active posters as others to my recollection. Do we even have confirmation about who mafia actually hit? Did I misread or skip something before I went to sleep? Nuke on Zona initiated by Xelin Going to say that this is retarded as hell. First off, Xelin, your logic is quite faulty. You're saying that this setup is borrowed to a certain extend, and since Zona has already chosen to implement a rb ability in his mafia minigames, he's most likely mafia? You realize there can only be so many variations on a basic mafia game that isn't theme based right? Again stop trying to bring crap that's irrelevant from other games into this one and counter his stances and arguments in this game. Zona has been quite pro-town, and I honestly don't see the justification of this nuke other than 'hey, I have a feeling, and since I can't convince the town using logic, I'm just going to shoot my nuke.' As for saying your nuke is fake, and to give serious consideration to lynching him - how can we when your nuke accomplished nothing except make you look anti-town. We can't even trust your word, same with Nikon's. It looks so sketchy that both of you are nuking the same person and both of you are claiming the nukes are fake. Especially when the current nuke doesn't even serve any purpose. Suspect list Xelin Nikon Caller d3 nemy People I feel are town/blue Zona Versatile Opz Abenson Shinbi haster Infundibulum People I'm not sure about Fishball - Waiting more for his post after work for more information Iaaan | ||
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First off, Iaaan's ability claim is a fairly interesting one. I only have one question to ask though - would you be willing to be nuked by someone to confirm this? If not, why not? As for fishball's message: On April 01 2010 10:35 Fishball wrote: Nikon, for trying to extend the day for the N'th time with his last minute nuke, against town consensus (duh), at an arguably lesser target based on general consensus, Zona. I still don't see the reasoning behind this nuke quite honestly. For one, it was largely last moment, I think within the last 5 minutes, no? Two: It's directed at, at least in my opinion, a very pro-town player. And three: it ended up using an anti-nuke. True, we can't confirm the legitimacy of your nuke, but we also can't prove this unless we use Iaaan's claim which I'll address later. Caller, lurking and laying low. Of course this alone wouldn't be enough for him to make the top of my list. Listen up, I am France, a Tracker. One of my abilities is to track who visited who at Night. I used this ability on Caller during Night ... the most likely scenario is that Caller is red and he killed Meeple. Going with the assumption that a) Fishball is a tracker who b) can target one person each night and follow that person, it sort of makes sense that Fishball hasn't posted largely during day 1. Caller did seem quite suspicious so I can see why Fishball would track him. This hinges on the assumption though, that Fishball is indeed a tracker. His story does make sense and gives justifications to his actions back on the eternal Day 1 with him not posting as much. I assume this was to not seem high-priority, though you can correct me if it was done for a different reason. On April 01 2010 11:18 Caller wrote: Well, gentlemen and woman, my idea of coming clean has been most rudely interrupted. I am Israel, an Alignment Cop. ... Since he came out scummy, and he was in fact innocent, that narrows it down to insane or paranoid, i.e. that my checks come out reversed, or all countries appear as mafia to my agents. I'm not sure where to start with this. I don't know whether to say it's conjured up because fishball tracked him, or if this is the case. What I'm confused about is why Nikon? For both sides actually. Nikon was suspicious, at least in my eyes, for firing the nuke on Zona. So I can slightly understand the DT check, though I think it'd be better served on a few other players. As for the bus, I haven't an idea why Nikon and meeple be switched. The whole thing looks a bit sketchy to me and I'd keep an eye on this personally. lol@the youtube video Now, given that Zona's confirmed vigilante, let's look at this post: On April 01 2010 14:05 Zona wrote: Alright. Things I want the town to look at in case I die. Caller's claim is well-crafted, but coincidentally very convenient. First, take note of Foolishness's quote on Ace's general dislike of Bus Driver roles. So that's one point against the claim. But let's assume there is a bus driver, and the bus driver happens to work the way Caller claims. It's too convenient that the bus driver happened to switch Nikon (someone who everyone is suspicious of, and thus a reasonable player to check) and meeple (someone who died). It's convenient that Caller can now claim cop without providing any useful information at all (perhaps he has none). Remember that this is something Caller came up with to otherwise explain the very suspicious track that Fishball claims to have tracked Caller with. This should be noted and kept in mind. We'll have to look at what Caller posts in terms of information and veracity in order to ascertain his role claim. This also extends to Fishball as well. Since both of these players have roleclaimed, there's no reason for them to withhold any of their night actions once the Day post goes up each time, unless someone can show me otherwise. I would say it's highly likely that the balance to the fact that the mafia has such low KP is their power to nuke. As well, notice that someone claims to have their nukes stolen. It's very possible that these nukes are now in mafia hands. I find this particular piece of information to be a bit troublesome. Someone has had their nuclear weapons stolen. It's particularly troublesome if indeed that this ability is within mafia realm. Especially with the fuckup of Day 1, we are already at Moderate, which is assuming that we have reached approximately half of the ToD. With no mafia found yet, I only hope we have enough anti-nukes to fend off any surprise nuke raid or such. If we guess that the setup includes 3-5 mafia and 1 serial killer, then with 16-18 town members and 3 regular deaths per cycle: one lynch, one mafia kill, one sk kill, (we can afford 3 or 4 days of mislynching before we're boned, if we didn't nuke. However, since we've lost quite a few town members to impulsive nukes, the town might be in a losing situation as quickly as day or night 3. It probably will be a good idea to mass claim and consensus (not impulsive individually) nuke on day 3 if nothing improves between now and then. If I'm correct that one of the night kills is from the serial killer, eliminating this serial killer will give the town a substantial amount of breathing room it didn't have before. This is vital. Guys, the first day really set us back. We are down *several* people due to impulsiveness. 3 people are going to die every day barring medic-prots and no-lynches. With no-lynches, we are still going down 2 people every day. We currently have 13 players alive going into night phase which means we may potentially sit at 11 players coming out. We absolutely need to find scum asap. To the rest of you town members: Stop lying. Lying hurts the town because the town is trying to work together to figure things out, and lying leads us off track. If the people who are lying so much and diverting the town's attention are actually town, I'm aghast at how you play. Stop ignoring anti-town actions under the umbrella of "idiot/impulsive" townie. This. Townies have no reason to lie. The objective of this game isn’t to ‘survive’ or ‘kill all the mafia yourself’, it’s to get rid of all the scum as a whole. The whole reason we are together as a town is because we need to play as a collective town. This impulsive nuke shooting really set us back a lot on day 1, and now on day 2, we’re down another two blues because one of them had a feeling. It is imperative that we work as a town instead of just doing what we feel like individually. I have a plan that I would like implement tomorrow that does involve roleclaiming after the day post; however, DO NOT ROLE CLAIM TONIGHT. You can roleclaim after the day post goes up, that’s fine. You can wait until after my plan. Whatever. Just whatever you do, do not role claim during this night. For tomorrow I would like to see the results of the findings from both Fishball and Caller, explaining why they also chose whoever they chose to track/investigate. With this information, and the role claiming tomorrow, then I hope we can make up for the mishaps during days 1 and 2 and win. If anybody is in opposition of the roleclaiming on day 3 I’d like to hear reasons why. There may have been something I’ve overlooked and it’s really important we get a good solid plan, so I’m open to criticism, suggestions, or changes to the roleclaiming idea. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 01 2010 19:56 ~OpZ~ wrote: Why not during the night phase LMNOP? Fishball is likely to be slain tonight...I really doubt there is another medic in a game with mafia only having 1 KP. Also, I did think of at least one reason to kill Amber. Possibly attempt at discrediting me seeing as I raged against him. This would be an idiot reason, and would prefer to think that the SK was actually trying to hit a mafia for us. Thanks Home Slice. The reason why we don't Role claim during night is to limit scum's chances of hitting a more important role than tracker. I'm still not sure about Caller's claim though I believe fishball's to be true given the circumstances. At the current moment, having role claims would be harmful during the night to give scum opportunities to select more targets. Also keep in mind that an SK is also out there and roleclaims during the night can only help the SK hit good targets as well. With this in mind, as JeeJee and verse said, if there is a medic, prot Fishball I would say. Caller's still a bit suspicious in my mind, and fishball is much definitely a safer choice. As for haster, we're going to be down to 12, possibly 11 people tonight, unless we still have a vigi out there which may shoot for possibly 10. The action may seem drastic, but it's very necessary in my opinion. Had the whole endless Day 1 never happened, we probably wouldn't be in the situation. I'd prefer having the investigative roles get more info, but the time to action is here. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
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Anyway, I check the thread and see that there have only been a few people posting which is pretty bad considering this day is very important. I’m a townie with no special abilities from Vietnam. This is the current state of the game These players are dead: 1. RebirthofLegend - vengeful townie 2. johnnyspazz - townie 3. L -medic 4. PhrujbazBill Murray – One shot day doc 5. tree.hugger - townie 6. Amber[LighT] -townie 7. Meeple – Ambiguous cop 8. Zona - Vigilante 9. Xelin – Boogie man [?] 10. Versatile – Townie Now, roles that have been mentioned but nobody has claimed: Roleblocker Nuke-stealer Bus driver Serial Killer This isn’t to say the roles are mutually exclusive, but just haven’t been claimed. Filling in the gaps with players and their claims: 1. d3_crescentia 2. JeeJee 3. ~Opz~ Mason 4. Caller Alignment Cop 5. haster27 Townie 6. Elemenope Townie 7. iNfuNdiBuLuM 8. Fishball Tracker 9. Iaaan Nuke-resistance [Is there anything else that goes along with this or are you a townie otherwise?] 10. Nikon Veteran 11. Abenson Mason 12. Nemy Townie If I missed either of d3’s, jeejee’s, infundibulum’s roleclaims, please say so; or if I misinterpreted anybody’s, correct me. The nuke stealing ability We currently have two victims of such, JeeJee and Abenson I believe. It is my belief that this ability is not town-aligned considering this is the second time this has happened, and nobody has claimed this ability thus far. If the person were truly town-aligned, we could use this person as a ToD-check to scum/third party nuke usage. But given the past two nights and usage of this nuke steal, it’s my opinion that this person is definitely scum or third party. If anybody can show or convince me otherwise, feel free. The roleblocking ability Given that Fishball was roleblocked and nobody else has claimed to be blocked yet during night 2, I’m to assume that there’s one of this role out there and this person is also anti-town. If the roleblocker was pro-town, Fishball should not have been blocked. Bus Driver I’m not so sure what to say of this role really. Nikon was targeted the first day, but then it was re-directed towards meeple. Nikon was then also targeted the second day, but he had veteran block to cover that. Given the first night, it seems quite anti, but given the second night, it may have been an honest mistake. Serial Killer It’s very clear that we have two night killing parties out there. Now, so far, the 4 people that have been targeted for night kills: meeple, amber, versatile, and Nikon. Out of these, Nikon has been the only one to survive due to being a veteran supposedly. I don’t believe we can determine which party hit which party, can we? Either way, it’s obvious that the SK is anti-town. However, we can use the SK in my opinion to our advantage. If anybody has any input thus far, please say so and I’ll address them. For my current plan We still need a few more role claims, but I want people’s opinions on this tentative plan. Since we are down quite a few and have still not hit any scum, I want the Serial Killer to step forward and state who he hit the past two nights. This may seem a bit unorthodox but given the situation and following assumption that SKs lose instantly when scum outnumber town, I want to use the SK’s kills as second potential lynches instead of his/her’s target list so that we don’t increase ToD any further using nukes and then having a nuke rush or something like that to force a draw. Another reason I want to do this is because it’ll determine what I’ve been wondering since someone brought it up since the start of the game: are there actually any mafia? I want to determine the amount of SKs we have, whether it’s one SK and we have a scum party or we have two SKs and no scum party. 10 people have died so far, and scum KP has been said to be 1, regardless of how many are alive. SK KP can be also assumed as one given that the SK is by himself. Is it possible that Ace has included two SKs and no scum actually? I’ve been thinking about this because we lost our vigilante thus we only have two methods to kill any scum now: lynches and nukes. We are already at moderate with the nukes, sitting at 5 nukes. As a result, nuking isn’t as legitimate an option anymore in my opinion, especially given our track record and the fact that we have no scum hit at all via nukes, lynches, and night kills by SK(s). If we are to assume that there are a team of scum doing these night hits in addition to an SK, then we have a good chance of actually killing someone with a nuke, but if there are no scum and it’s just two SKs, then our chances go down drastically. We have 12 players left, and if there are in fact two SKs, then chances are we’re going to hit one of our own again, so we’ll most likely just end up losing a townie and raising ToD higher again. Same deal with the lynches even, just without the ToD increase. Overall I’d like to hear more about this plan, and any opinions of it. I already know a potential downside to it which I won’t elect to mention until after I get more input or if the SK(s) speak up. As for claims: Nemy’s doesn’t strike me as anything major, unless he meant something else when saying ‘townie’. Though I’d really prefer he participate more or at least say something. I’m still a bit suspicious of him quite honestly. Nikon being veteran, unless someone can make a counterclaim or of some such, I can’t find any hole in this. Haster being town. I can’t put my finger on it, but something just doesn’t feel right with this. I’ll have to go back to previous posts and see something because I think something you said previously gave me a vibe that you weren’t of the townie role. But I can’t say anything at the moment that this claim is bullshit or anything. Perhaps later. I already said what I said about fishball and caller. Current nuke situation I don’t want this to be shot down quite honestly for two reasons: we should save any remaining antinukes we have in case some stupid nuke-rush-for-draw crap happens, and the fact that Iaaan said he was fine if a nuke was shot at him. If this nuke lands, I believe it’ll go to the next stage at 6 nukes unless I miscounted, and we’ll see if Iaaan’s claim about his power is true or not. Although it won’t give us insight into Nikon’s first nuke viability against Zona, it’ll also show us that Nikon isn’t the nuke-stealer going around which helps us somewhat. As for Caller’s check on d3, I feel it’s something to keep in mind, though I don’t necessarily think it should be trusted as readily at the moment. If I missed anybody’s role claim or misinterpreted your roleclaim, please say so. Also, again, I want people’s opinions on the SK plan. We haven’t hit anybody yet with any nukes or lynches which starts to worry me that perhaps there isn’t any scum at all and it’s just two SKs. If anybody has any input or criticism on this plan, please state it. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 03 2010 13:50 Iaaan wrote: Last, a solid roleclaim from me, I was being ambiguous before, I am Antarctica, a veteran. My powers are 1 extra life against nukes, and 1 extra life against night hits. This makes me suspicious of nikon still, if we are both veterans, why are our roles different? I asked him a little bit about his role on the last page, from what he has said it doesn't sound like he has an extra life against nukes. This is interesting, and from this, only one thing comes to mind - though I'd like to hear Nikon's take about Iaaan claiming veteran before coming to a decision. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 03 2010 20:05 Nikon wrote: Well, it would make sense to have more than one Veteran in a setup where there are multiple parties that can nightkill... You seem to be confused. I'm not interested about the fact that there are multiple people role claiming as 'Veteran'. What I'm more interested about is the fact that these same two roles have different abilities, yet you seem to be fine with this. We have you who claimed to be hit during the night, yet you are wondering if Iaaan's claim of a free nuke block during the day is true or not, going so far as to launch a nuke at him. Yet Iaaan is also claiming to be a veteran with a free nuke block and a free night hit block, and you don't find this surprising even when he roleclaimed the same role as you? You seem quite casual about this and I can only guess that due to the difference of abilities of the same claimed roles: One or both of you are lying about your roleclaims. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 04 2010 00:21 Nikon wrote: Yeah, except that laaan said that he will survive nukes yesterday, and I nuked him before he claimed veteran. You assume we have different abilities because he's assuming so, based on information I said I want to withhold. What was the point in nuking him? Let's assume these things: A) You are a veteran B) Veteran ability entails a free night hit which is standard, but not as standard: a free nuke hit C) Nobody mentions that they are immune to a single nuke hit until Iaaan mentions it Given these three things, you still launch a nuke at Iaaan when only B is something Veterans could know. Iaaan could've guessed the ability, thinking it makes sense given that given that nukes are in the hands of 22 people, somebody ought to have nuke protection, even if it is a one-shot ability; however, the chance of this is very slim in my eyes, especially coupled with the fact that he says On April 03 2010 06:46 Iaaan wrote: It will hit, but it wont kill me. Do you have nuke protection to? and are you arctica? in response to you role claiming Veteran. He clearly says that veterans also have a one-shot day nuke protection. Yet you go ahead and nuke him and choose to withhold your capabilities even while roleclaiming? You realize the problem with this, right? On top of this, you claim that your missile is fake which accomplishes absolutely nothing in terms of confirming whether Iaaan is truly veteran or not as his ability, which you should know, blocks a nuke hit because, as Iaaan puts it which you are also implying by not denying the fact that veterans have a one-shot nuke protection, it gives an extra life against nukes which means an actual nuke has to hit. Because of this, your only purpose in sending that nuke is to accomplish one of two things: A) Burn up an antinuke which you did so well with your first nuke, or B) Burn up a veteran's extra nuke protection Both of which do not help the town at all. So perhaps you could explain why you thought that someone stating he possesses an ability that hasn't been mentioned by anybody until then which somehow conveniently matches your ability would deserve a nuke in order to prove this ability? If he's not veteran: congratulations, you probably killed scum since he lied, but this means you also lied about your fake nuke on Zona. If he is veteran: you burned his day protection and you lied about your fake nuke on Zona. If your missile is a dud: you accomplished nothing at all in terms of extra information for the town and we have no confirmation of your first missile. What was really going through your mind when you decided to nuke Iaaan? | ||
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On April 04 2010 01:41 ~OpZ~ wrote: Did also notice how both haster and infund popped up to throw votes on Caller? I say we wait to see if Nikon's nuke is real. Should assume it the nuke post will let us know if his nuke protection is burned up, right LMNOP? =D And...I'll retaliate on Abenson if necessary, which will allow him to retaliate on me....I love life sometimes. Haster has claimed vanilla townie, I don't believe infund has claimed unless I missed it. Though I am a bit curious as to why Haster has voted for Caller. Haster has posted that he would vote for Caller if he didn't post his night action, and he did, and then he proceeds to vote for him anyway once he got back from work/school/whatever it was, citing that caller is lurking. If we assume that his claim is legitimate, all we have is that meeple turned up scum, which makes Caller insane or paranoid. D3 turned up scum, which still makes Caller insane or paranoid and we don't know the alignment of d3. We can't really fault Caller for lack of information from night actions; though I am a bit curious as to why he chose d3 instead of Opz or Abenson. If, haster, you feel that Caller isn't an alignment cop though, then that's a legitimate issue. As for infund, I'd like to hear a claim. Same with JeeJee and d3. Unless I missed any of these three claims somewhere in the thread. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
Nice explanation on why you nuked Iaaan with a fake nuke. | ||
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On April 06 2010 01:16 ~OpZ~ wrote: LMNOP hasn't said shit I don't really havea nything new to say other than thanks for the anti-nuke d3? I still have my suspicions of Caller, nikon, d3, nemy due to previous reasons listed. Nemy launched his nuke against Nikon which is what we wanted him to do to prove nikon's veteran status which is what this whole thing hinges around. Unless you have any specific questions, I'm not sure what else to contribute until this nuke lands. | ||
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On April 06 2010 11:43 Abenson wrote: There is a slight chance that that is a mafia ability Slight chance? The guy fucking lied about his roleclaim, launched a nuke at someone to try to burn up an anti-nuke, provoked getting nukes launched at him, and now this happens? Yeah. nikon is a fucking baller veteran yo. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 06 2010 11:45 Iaaan wrote: I have a specific question Seeing as you are suspicious of d3, why do you think his motivations were to use one of his anonymous anti nukes to save you from the anonymous nuke from Xelin/north korea? Only thing I can see is trying to discredit me or perhaps make him seem more town-like. Why don't you ask him? | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 08 2010 11:23 Iaaan wrote: so, just my own little thoughts from my own point of view: caller checked d3 and he showed up red. thus, if we believe that caller is town, we have to believe that d3 is town. so, with opz and abenson being confirmed as townies, and then myself, caller and d3 being townies to, that leaves jeejee haster lmnop and citizen as mafia. Since when were you confirmed townie? | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
Do you believe Caller or not? | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 08 2010 12:09 citi.zen wrote: In fact, in this game I'm allowed to vote for myself, so here: ##Vote citi.zen GG town. rage much? I don't know who to put my vote on. On one hand, we have Caller who has been relatively inactive and seemingly full of scum. Yet with this claim and the night kills up until now, his action does seem to make sense. If he seemed like a viable lynch target, why would mafia bother to hit him if they can get the town to waste a lynch by lynching him? Unless someone wants to directly counter his claim with a Japan claim. Then we have Citi.zen/infund who claimed Paranoid Gun Owner, but then says that the role consists solely of nuke-retaliation, which means the main point around the PGO ability has been taken out - hence, it shouldn't even be called PGO anymore. I'm more leaning that citizen/infund were lying because of that role point. Nikon claimed Veteran, was caught in a lie, and he ended up anti-town. China's ability to launch only retaliation nukes doesn't even seem like a PGO claim at all, I don't see why infund/citizen would claim as such unless it was to avoid night checks which can make sense. The whole nuking thing just seems more of like a nuke restriction, similar to a post restrictions in other games: just to be a hindrance for the person. I'll see what happens though for a bit since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time to mull things over. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 08 2010 15:16 citi.zen wrote: You are also correct: everything makes sense except for Inf's role-claim. Meeple's death when Caller visited him was a coincidence, as were many other things Caller has since managed to perfectly explain by changing his story every day. Even his behavioral analysis was spot-on every time: I was trying to defend myself by accusing him, even though at that point there were no accusations on me. Not to mention the martyrdom - that's a clear sign of a mafia, as seen in prior games. So don't bother thinking about any of that - it's cool, just vote. OpZ told you to, and he's confirmed town, right? Just do it - these guys are legit. I am more leaning towards you lying about your role claim because...you know....you are. Why would you have a Paranoid Gun Owner role when you lack the absolute function of a Paranoid Gun Owner that makes him so Paranoid and a Gun Owner. Your role with what infund and you have claimed may as well be Pussy who won't fire nukes first rather than Paranoid Gun Owner as it definitely pertains a lot more to what your role is supposedly. Fishball has claimed tracker: he tracked where caller went, as per every single tracker out there in mafia. Opz and Abenson are Masons, and as such, they can communicate with each other, as per every single mason out there in mafia. Nikon was SK, and as such, he killed people at night, as per every single SK out there in mafia. Infund/you are Paranoid Gun Owner, and as such, you don't kill people who visit you at night [even by your own admission], as per....no paranoid gun owner, ever? | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 08 2010 19:43 ~OpZ~ wrote: Citizen Caller Iaaan ~OpZ~ Citizen Caller Citizen Haster27 Can we get our votes on to citizen before the nuke lands? I'd rather his lynch be already set up. Nuke lands at 2:03 KST FYI Just need one more to lynch. We have til 5:03 KST til nuke lands. I'm not quite sure what clock you're looking at. Also: you have Abenson to call on a vote for Citizen if you truly believe citizen to be scum. I'm also willing to believe as such, but would like to hold my vote a bit unless there's anything else he or haster want to say. | ||
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On April 09 2010 00:36 ~OpZ~ wrote: Really? Damn...So add JeeJee to my vote for Citizen list... You know, if you want to say something, it'd be preferable to say it as soon as possible. | ||
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On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote: Argument against setup "all we know is that there isn't five mafia": your entire argument hinges on this argument being true. I can only see you thinking Caller/~OpZ~/Abenson/d3/yourself are Townies, because otherwise I cannot see why you would make such statement with confidence. Let me state this means nothing. If Caller is Mafia he and d3_crescentia are no longer confirmed Townie. If so it is still possible there are five Mafia present in the game. Also, you berate laaan for never "[considering] the point that there might not be four mafia, but less", but did anyone ever express an opinion that there might be less than three Mafia previous to your post? It's mathematically impossible for there to be 5 mafia. Are you even paying attention at all? And secondly: I did express concerns that there may be no mafia at all in fact, and it may be two anti-town SKs actually, prior to Nemy launching his nuke towards Nikon I believe actually. I'd still like to hear Opz/Abenson's reasoning behind suddenly switching votes, especially at the last second, and secondly: the nuke on Iaaan. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 06:41 ~OpZ~ wrote: Where were you to further argue with me earlier? I would of preferred that. Honestly I have no idea which of you is mafia. Caller not being mafia pretty much hands the game over to town, right then and there. Almost everyone becomes confirmed. Sounds extremely nice. Now let's see if he's right. Citizen voters and would-be voters: Iaaan LMNOP Caller JeeJee I would like this to be noted. I would also like it to be noted all who didn't cast their votes. D3. Abenson, Haster, Myself, Citizen. Let's see where this goes after Caller dies. D3 cast your vote. Before going any further: I'd like to hear your mafia suspect list. | ||
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On April 09 2010 07:19 ~OpZ~ wrote: Please cast your vote for the suspect that seems most scummy. JeeJee should say his role now. I assume he's protown. I assume Iaaan is protown also through knowledge of the daytime nuke protection. Now there is Caller and LMNOP I can't judge. Abenson and I are masons. 2 confirms, and 2 EXTREMELY likely townies. Haster, Citizen vs. Caller - Let's see where it goes. And the nonposting d3. I'm not going to post my suspects. Please post your vote and further arguments. Convince me I'm wrong. I shouldn't need to explain my change of vote to someone who didn't vote. How can I convince you that you're wrong when you don't even list a suspect list? You claim that we should just lynch Caller and see where this goes when if we lynch Caller and he's town, we lose if there is 4 mafia alive. With the way you've been acting the previous day and this day, I'd almost say that you and Abenson are in fact mafia and are trying to play off Mason. The fact that you all are so hasty with your votes when we're in most likely a lylo situation is just suspicious. Do you not understand the implications of a mislynch? Stop trying to act so high and might because I'm not voting right away when we're in a lylo situation. You need to explain your change of vote. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 07:40 ~OpZ~ wrote: EBWOP: citizen didn't change his vote til 5:46. My bad. Before you use that against my argument. You were fine with citizens death earlier but now you need time to think about it? Well you are GOD DAMNED WELCOME FOR THE TIME THAT MY VOTE CHANGE/NUKE allowed us to have. A thank you would be appreciated. Because what I'm concerned is that a) you were pushing hard for Citizen to get lynched and how Caller is town and throw your vote on him, then suddenly b) you change it ~3 minutes before the nuke lands with no explanation whatsoever and suddenly we're supposed to take your word for it and vote Caller? I say before your vote switch to say something on why you said Really? Damn...So add JeeJee to my vote for Citizen list... You completely ignore that and then change your vote at the last moment, then try to play it off as nothing has happened? I was not fine with citizen dying in the lynch at all as I felt there's something missing, yet there's nothing I could do about it. You know why I didn't throw a vote? Because it's obvious that you would throw a nuke before the one Abenson launched landed. Even without that, what was I supposed to do? Launch a nuke myself? I don't have 5 votes to throw around on somebody else, so unless you wanted me to launch a nuke, there wasn't anything I could do. The way I see it is this: Assuming Caller is Town His early inactivity was suspicious. Claiming Israel DT in response to Fishball's tracker claim was itself suspicious given circumstances. And then coming with the citizen=scum claim. However, this is where I feel that it can make sense. First off: as citizen so delicately put it Use reasoning not faith. Caller gets a nuke launched at him. He asks for the town to save him, but he has to take care of it himself. He checks Nikon, but then bussed onto Meeple. This is the first point: we currently don't have any mafia lynched or killed, we only have Nikon who was anti-town SK killed. We have no way of confirming just yet of the abilities of mafia which also means we can't truly deny the fact that there may be a bus driver. Meeple turned up scum to the alignment check, while we all know that meeple was blue. Hence, something is wrong with this. A DT can have 4 different sanities: sane, naive, paranoid, and insane, all of which influence the DT's accuracy check since DTs are quite overpowered, especially when paired with a medic and especially when mafia only have one KP. A medic-DT combo is nigh unstoppable when mafia KP is one which it is in this case, so it's logical to assume that if there are DTs, they may have varying sanities. Versatile is hit, and Caller claims he checked d3 and result came up as scum as well to alignment check. We don't gain any new information in this case. Fishball is then hit, and Caller claims he checked Infund/citizen, and result came up as Innocent to alignment check. This is quite a clear giveaway as to the allignment of Infund/citizen as the only other possibility that would allow an innocent meeple who turned up scum to a check and an innocent infund who turned up innocent to a check is that Ace is a douche bag who just randomly gave scum/innocent to alignment checks to the DT. I think we can all agree that this is highly unlikely. On top of this, Caller claims Japan saying that he didn't want to seem like a likely night hit target. Let's look at the lynches so far: RoL, Xelin, and Nikon. In RoL's case, he was just a random vote in order to force a day one lynch, but then he launched a nuke. Xelin: launched an anonymous nuke, claim he didn't do it, then later claim he did in fact do so. Then he launches a nuke at Zona, and everybody votes for him. Nikon: launches a fake nuke at Iaaan, then tells me to launch a nuke at him, to which Nemy actually follows through which ends up getting reversed, and we lynch Nikon. Now, this whole time: Caller was suspicious as fuck from Day 1 because of the save from the first nuke and the fact that he was inactive. We had asked Japan to come forward, and we even had a huge debate which, may I remind you, ended up getting L killed as to whether Japan should step forward or not. This was a continuing theme throughout the days as people wondered "Why wouldn't Japan step forward to claim that he saved Caller if he was truly town?" Then we come to the last day: the reason nobody did is because Caller was Japan. Unless someone wants to come out and claim either Israel or Japan to refute Caller? Now let's look at the night kill targets: Meeple, Amber, Versatile, and Fishball. With the exception of Fishball up until his claim, all of these players attempted to generate discussion among the town in order to hopefully get scum to leak a tell, especially on the first day. None of these players were completely inactive. If Caller wanted to not seem like a good target for a night hit, then he did very well going off the kill list that has happened thus far. Now going off from this: I can only see a few things that can completely invalidate Caller's claim when given a closer look: 1) Somebody claiming Japan 2) Somebody claiming Israel 3) Somebody claiming Bus Driver If anybody else can think of any other thing to negate Caller's claim that's not the above 3, then say so; preferably something other than "he was just making it up, he was hiding the whole time and is just trying to save himself" as that can pretty much be argued for anybody at this current moment. On April 09 2010 07:58 haster27 wrote: Remember I am new to TL Mafia. If you are going to dismiss it as mathematics, you are at least going to need to show your entire work to get marks. However, I acknowledge my mistake if you really suggested there were no Mafia- however, having team of three Mafia and two independent SK who may or may not know each other is completely different thing. In case this is two SK game, laaan has no reason to defend a position about number of mafia- thus JeeJee's point is still moot. Here is why there cannot be 5 mafia: We have 9 people alive. Mafia win when a majority is reached. Thus if there's 5 mafia alive at the moment, then that would be 5 mafia and 4 town, meaning Mafia would win. Secondly: Halt. This is so hypocritical I don't know where to begin. 1) Town is in lylo position; thus it equally means that if citizen is lynched and he is town, we lose. Correct. 2) ~OpZ~ and Abenson cannot be Mafia. Believe me, yesterday I REALLY REALLY wanted to believe they are intelligent Mafia, but I knew it was not possible because of two facts: 1) false-claiming one's country so early in the game is suicidal because he could accidentally claim a country being represented by another player, and 2) their nuke switching ability which was proved by ~OpZ~ and Abenson false-nuking each other. Since nuke-stealer is Mafia, it is highly likely nuke switching ability would go to Townie. Hold on. First off: one - they do not need to false claim their country at all if they were mafia. Secondly, their nuke switching ability was not proven at all in fact because we haven't seen a nuke fired by either of those two that actually was real. It's not hard to claim you have a nuke switching ability and fire off fake nukes at each other if *all your nukes are fake regardless*. And since Abenson had took the liberty of shooting a nuke so early on [which was largely unnecessary as town only needs to reach a majority lynch. Assuming everybody was thinking, which apparently wasn't the case, then nobody would throw out a lynch vote if there were no nukes in the air], and now that Opz had shot a nuke at Iaaan, now they can't prove they have a real nuke now anymore since they both used their initation nuke and they can only nuke once a day. Unless you're claiming that you have actually stolen their real nukes, I don't see how you can create a definitive proof that their nuke switching ability is in fact verified. Overall First off, I don't get why you guys are so accusatory saying that I don't understand the situation of the lylo we're in. The fact that I haven't thrown out a vote gives a very indicative statement that I know exactly what situation we're in unlike the rest of you voters. So don't ever try to say that I was content with letting citizen die and caller live or letting Caller die and citizen live or whatever. What I'm looking to see is if there's definitive proof that can justify the lynch of one or the other. Until then, all I have is circumstances that on the surface, looks fishy as fuck, but once taken from an objective point of view, does make sense. I never explicitly claimed that Caller is town or that citizen is scum or vice-versa, but from what I've seen, it looks like that Caller is in fact town though now that we do have a nuke out in the air again, I'm very happy to hear arguments relating to this. More importantly: on why Opz changed his vote. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 08:26 ~OpZ~ wrote: Personally, I'm wondering where the fuck LMNOP disappeared to...discussing it with his mafia brothers? Because this is supposed to be my sole attention and it's not as if I play HoN or take breaks in typing or any of the sort. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 09:00 ~OpZ~ wrote: LMNOP are you missing the fact that you argued COMPLETELY against ONLY citizen and not caller? No, I'm really not. What else do I have to argue when Caller's situation makes sense in retrospect; however the role claim of a role whose inherent role properties have been removed when no other role in the game has had any portion of their role taken away is very suspicious to me. This has been the whole point of why I railed against citizen/infund, because the role of Paranoid Gun Owner has been claimed by infund yesterday, yet even by his/citizen's own admission today, that is not in fact what their role is. Are you completely missing this fact? You didn't argue WITH ANYONE for not voting, despite you thinking the WHOLE TOWN should be thinking. This is not what you do. I argued all day, and extended the day MULTIPLE times, and set up a decent idea yesterday. I tried to pull votes, I bashed Caller all day yesterday. Even suggested Nikon was third party. And then next, IF you KNEW as you claim I was going to extend the day, THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN why casting your vote mattered? There is no lynch til all nukes land, and according to you, you knew they wouldn't be landing anytime soon. Not like it would matter. and AGAIN Do you not realize that why I changed my vote doesn't matter? I've done explained IF I DIDN'T THE DAY WOULD HAVE ENDED. You pointed this out. I've pointed this out. You seem to be okay with the day not being over, but upset about me changing my vote? Because if I didn't then Citizen would have been lynched by his own hand? Because I wanted more discussion? Because you didn't vote? Because I think Caller is mafia? Because I'm stupid? Because I'm a jack ass? TAKE A REASON. Stop pointing your dirty red fingers at me. The reason I didn't cast a vote? Because we don't know if mafia have an anti-nuke or not still Seriously, Why the fuck are you guys casting votes when we have no idea if there's a mafia anti-nuke out there? If there's a majority on a townie, that's a fucking game over right there if mafia launch an anti-nuke. Think. This is why I'm upset. The fact that you railed against Caller yesterday, suddenly reversed your opinion in an almost 180 degrees today when Caller does his claim, then do another 180 for no apparent reason at the very last fucking second in order to get a majority on Caller. I'm finding your Mason claim especially suspicious now. First off: you two are Masons, supposedly confirmed on Day 1. I'm not sure if other people realize this but Masons are a very fucking important role for the town. They have free communication with each other, they know each other to be confirmed townies. This is a tremendous advantage in terms of information gathering. The fact that the mafia haven't killed you yet to nullify this advantage just amazes the fuck out of me. Secondly: You guys seem to be hardly coordinated as Masons. First lynch: 15 people vote for RoL, you two were two among them. Second lynch on Xelin: Abenson votes for Xelin while you vote for Caller. Third lynch on Nikon: Abenson doesn't even vote while you vote for Caller. You guys are supposed to be Masons. Confirmed townies that know each other to be confirmed townies. Yet you guys can't even coordinate your votes properly. Bad Mason communication? Or perhaps mafia trying to spread votes? Thirdly: This whole day? Looks like fucking bullshit overall. Seriously. I don't see the logic at all from going to attacking Caller yesterday, even claiming that Caller should be lynched over Nikon yesterday, to defending Caller and throwing a vote on citizen, then at the last second switching to Caller and claiming that you don't need to give the reason for your switch in vote other than "well, he could be lying." Well guess what, so could every fucking person in here. The fact that both you, abenson, citizen, *and* haster all voted for Caller, tipping this into a precarious situation doesn't sit well with me. On top of that, with this missile being shot, this looks like a fucking setup in order to get a townie killed through having a majority vote sit during a nuke launch, then anti-nuking it while it's in the air. This whole nuke passing thing seems like bullshit, especially since they can choose to do it as many times in the day as they please it seems. Even looking back, it makes sense too. As I said earlier, what if the mafia have an anti-nuke still available? You two have been the ones initiating these false nukes today and yesterday in order to extend the time. Then when nemy launches a missile, and gets it reflected back, you save an anti-missile. This creates the illusion that there are no anti-missiles available to the town to use. Then suddenly, you two launch these presumably fake nukes with the same intention of making sure a majority vote doesn't happen too soon and that we have things to discuss, but at the same time, masking your intention to get a majority vote on a townie, then doing a surprise anti-nuke and thus ending the game. I have no nukes and have no problem launching a fake in order to extend the day if this is going to be ignored in favored of a "well, this guy seemed suspicious from day 1, so let's lynch him when we're in a lylo situation" defense. If you want a vote ##vote: Opz. I would highly suggest, haster, that you look at your vote again. The so-called Masons may in fact just be fucking Mafia. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 10:04 haster27 wrote: It does not matter. In every instance the nuke was intercepted, the day still continued on as normal because the fact that nuke has been intercepted is only revealed at the time nuke is supposed to land. Since your entire argument against ~OpZ~ being Mafia relies on this misunderstanding, this effectively nullifies your entire case against him. In fact I find this absoultely brilliant; I think I understand the reasoning behind his actions, but I am going to keep silent about this unless ~OpZ~ himself speaks up. Ok, I'll just give the relevant quotes here for you, though you yourself should know about this. On March 26 2010 09:11 Ace wrote: 1.) Something like that you don't assume. 2.) It didn't matter anyway because the anti-nuke was in before your post. If you remember first day when L tried to nuke himself, this happened. Read point 2 of what Ace said. If you want time frame of reference: On March 25 2010 15:45 Ace wrote: Day ends at 08:54 KST at the current time On March 26 2010 08:29 L wrote: Nope. And since I see no rules against this: ##nuke: L I have no nukes, sup. While I'd love to keep the fact that I have no nukes a secret to dissuade morans from throwing nuclear bomblets at my precious face, I will have to do what I have to do. If we ever need a day extended, I can now bomb myself. Notice that the day would've ended at 08:54KST, and that L had nuked himself at 8:29KST, yet Ace said it didn't matter since the anti-nuke came in before that. On March 25 2010 12:16 Ace wrote: I wont tell you how this works because I'm trying to leave it up to the players of this game to use their heads ^_^ What I can tell you is that, and I've answered this in PMs I think is that if an anti-nuke is used even if I get the PM immediately I wont post that it was used. This is to avoid a situation where it would be obvious that someone posting used it. This just shows that Ace does treat the day as having ended once that anti-nuke PM is sent in rather than when the missile would have landed. | ||
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Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 10:07 ~OpZ~ wrote: mafia either A) had only one and used it to save Caller, or B) Citizen is mafia. Mafia would of used it to kill citizen earlier. Thank you LMNOP. Are you fucking blind? I’m fucking saying that because the anti-nuke wasn’t used when citizen at 5 votes, both you and citizen are fucking mafia. Why the fuck would you anti the nuke when it would kill your mafia buddy? Our votes? Did we need to be on the same person? Caller wasn't getting lynched yesterday, it was obvious. Abenson took his vote to no lynch, AFTER I told him to so we wouldn't kill without discussion. He just never changed it because IT DIDN'T MATTER. Again, his vote for Xelin? It didn't matter again. Go read the numbers. I told him a lynch is better than no lynch. I believe I argued for Xelin's lynch rather repetitively. I've also BEEN ARGUING FOR CALLERS LYNCH ALL GAME. So our votes can just be thrown away at a whim? Sounds like a poor fucking explanation on why you’re using votes. And what does it matter if you’ve been arguing Caller’s lynch all game? If you’re scum, then who gives a fuck who you try to lynch all game as long as he’s a fucking townie? I had a very important point with all of this. Asking haster to look at his vote again? Haster voted For Caller BEFORE ME. Haster Argued with me for lynching Caller. He's argued not to lynch Citizen. The fact that you disappeared when Citizen WAS ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED is a point enough to be suspicious of you. You don't seem to be vanishing when Caller's head is on the chopping block, yet you don't give to shits when citizen's getting it? So what could I do in order to prevent citizen from being lynched? Do I have 5 fucking votes to throw around? Here’s another ability of mine as townie: I only have one vote to use Yeah, a lot of help I can fucking save citizen with with one vote. Sorry that not everybody has time to stay around their computer for many hours in the midday like you did. Considering my last post was 00:51, asking you to clarify what you meant by On April 09 2010 00:51 Elemenope wrote: You know, if you want to say something, it'd be preferable to say it as soon as possible. And I didn’t come back to post until 5:58 somehow makes me seem content with this? I asked what you meant by your ambiguous statement, asking clarification and for you to express your thoughts on the matter more. Yet you didn't even explain what you meant at all until after the nuke lands and vote switches. Don’t you dare try to pin me saying that I was content with letting citizen die. Hell, by your own admission, there were going to be more nukes. On April 08 2010 15:01 ~OpZ~ wrote: We're gonna have a few nukes in the air. I'm not letting the mafia weasel their way out and get Caller lynched. Haster and Citizen's arguments are complete shit. You, me, and even caller himself have pretty much decimated each of their arguments....It's a really pathetic attempt. Citizen will probably remove his vote. I will extend until we have a majority. I am not dealing with one of these no lynch situations. I'd have Abenson vote and have it anti-nuked if I he were here. Oh look, you’re even talking about exactly what I was accusing you of, and you’re trying to say you’re not suspicious with this sudden swing in vote? Oh yea, I been saving my anti-nukes all right. Just waiting for the right moment when a townie's gonna get lynched. Me and JeeJee tried to save RoL for a bit, realized we couldn't...then just sat there like "Fuck." I've ACTUALLY SAVED Zona from being nuked. PROVEN BY ABENSONS CLAIM OF U.K. and U.K. SAVING ZONA. Pow, right in the kisser. Sure, as long as it makes you look more town-favored, since even if all your mafia buddies were to die, who would think to turn on the claimed Masons? In case you aren’t understanding what I’m saying, I’m saying that your anti-nuke is worth fuckall for the town because if it comes down to it, the town would think you and Abenson are innocent, and would have no reason to nuke you anyway. Hardly “Pow, right in the kisser.” | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 10:33 Elemenope wrote: Are you fucking blind? I’m fucking saying that because the anti-nuke wasn’t used when citizen at 5 votes, both you and citizen are fucking mafia. Why the fuck would you anti the nuke when it would kill your mafia buddy? So our votes can just be thrown away at a whim? Sounds like a poor fucking explanation on why you’re using votes. And what does it matter if you’ve been arguing Caller’s lynch all game? If you’re scum, then who gives a fuck who you try to lynch all game as long as he’s a fucking townie? So what could I do in order to prevent citizen from being lynched? Do I have 5 fucking votes to throw around? Here’s another ability of mine as townie: I only have one vote to use Yeah, a lot of help I can fucking save citizen with with one vote. Sorry that not everybody has time to stay around their computer for many hours in the midday like you did. Considering my last post was 00:51, asking you to clarify what you meant by And I didn’t come back to post until 5:58 somehow makes me seem content with this? I asked what you meant by your ambiguous statement, asking clarification and for you to express your thoughts on the matter more. Yet you didn't even explain what you meant at all until after the nuke lands and vote switches. Don’t you dare try to pin me saying that I was content with letting citizen die. Hell, by your own admission, there were going to be more nukes. Oh look, you’re even talking about exactly what I was accusing you of, and you’re trying to say you’re not suspicious with this sudden swing in vote? Sure, as long as it makes you look more town-favored, since even if all your mafia buddies were to die, who would think to turn on the claimed Masons? In case you aren’t understanding what I’m saying, I’m saying that your anti-nuke is worth fuckall for the town because if it comes down to it, the town would think you and Abenson are innocent, and would have no reason to nuke you anyway. Hardly “Pow, right in the kisser.” | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 22:02 ~OpZ~ wrote: It doesn't make sense. I would never waste an anti-nuke saving town if I was mafia. WHO THE FUCK IS SAYING THIS? I'M SAYING IF YOU'RE MAFIA, YOU WOULD SAVE A FUCKING MAFIA BY ANTI-NUKING A NUKE HEADED TOWARDS SOMEONE WHEN A TOWNIE HAS MAJORITY VOTE. HOLY FUCK READ. I also Championed saving L. Your argument is idiotic. There was no need to respond to it. Lol. "Oh hai, you're mafia, but you argued for saving L + saved Zona + breadcrumbed Abenson so two mafia would seem super townie!" Although I suppose if you believe Caller's BS story, mine seems pretty fucking epic too. Lol...Which story seems more made up. Lol. JeeJee isn't even arguing how town I am. Only you are. Who are you trying to convince I'm mafia LMNOP? Me? Or town? Lol!!! Championed saving L? You voted L simply to try to get Abenson off the hook! Are you fucking kidding me? It wasn't until Zona came in and said that we should vote for RoL before the Day 1 Clusterfuck happened! I'm trying to convince the town and look at the past actions if you want to say you championed for saving L: 1) Abenson was getting lynched, you breadcrumb his name and vote for L, who was the next contender to be voted for a lynch. 2) You claim Mason along with Abenson which pretty much throws every vote off of him 3) Zona comes in saying we should vote for RoL. Haster and myself are the next two to vote for him while you weren't there until the 5th. Don't ever say you were the one who fucking championed any shit If you forgot that fact too....It was either me and JeeJee (or haster I forget which) who tried to save RoL after him came back posting like a fuck. I also called Nikon as third party, instead of mafia. The only way you could call Nikon as third party would be either a) also being a third party, aka a 2nd SK, and knowing the ability set, or b) being mafia. Also, I'm not explaining myself. Haster seems to have caught on. So if he is mafia, he sees wtf I just did. Citizen was about to lynch himself. I extended the day what, 2 minutes before his death? Maybe he was sitting there f5ing to save himself....You damn sure weren't trying to prevent that lynch from occurring right then. Perfectly content in letting it go through right after Abensons nuke fell. How can you even prove that I was even there when the nuke was going to hit? Seriously. I was not content in it, but there was nothing I could do when some guy makes an ambiguous statement of "Oh, this other guy also voted for him..." and then leaves it at that. When a role is claimed as Paranoid Gun Owner, and the exact fundamental core of the ability is completely removed, it is no longer Paranoid Gun Owner. Want to know why? Because Ace would've made it a completely different role, similar to how he did with Xelin. Ask yourself this: What exactly was Xelin's role? What the fuck is 'da boogie man'? If a role is different from the standard mafia roles, Ace would've given it a completely different role name. Also, that only applies if I'm scum. I'm a MASON. I've had Zona saved. I tried to get L saved (which BM did), I tried to save RoL. All seem to be confirmed townie to me by now, right? Oh, I also tried to save Nikon and have Caller lynched yesterday.... HOLY FUCK DO YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND HOW THIS GAME WORKS AT FUCKING ALL? hey guys, I'm Mason. I asked for L to be anti-nuked, I called for a nuke deterrent. I'm Mason guys. Obviously the town is supposed to believe me now. You, yourself, have not saved anybody yet. First off: many people were in saving for L, so don't act like you were some holy righteous knight. You did not save Zona, Abenson did. This action has nothing to do with what your alignment is because Mason pairs are not always completely town-aligned pairs. There may be one townie and one mafia within the pair. You say Oh yea, I been saving my anti-nukes all right. Just waiting for the right moment when a townie's gonna get lynched. SO THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU SAVE NEMY YESTERDAY. OR DID YOU THINK HE WAS SURELY MAFIA, SINCE YOU KNOW, LAUNCHING A NUKE AT A THIRD PARTY, WHO YOU CLAIM TO KNOW FOR A FACT IS THIRD PARTY BEFORE HIS FLIPPED, WOULD BE DONE BY SOMEONE WHO IS MAFIA. You didn't save anybody yet. Period. If you were truly trying to save L, then you would've anti-nuked his nuke before BM did, or you would've anti-nuked the nuke by Versatile. Stop trying to take credit for saving someone when you didn't do shit. Haster, if you would like to post what I've done, be my guest. I want someone else to show LMNOP how amazing blatantly obvious I just raped him. If you're wrong don't feel bad, cuz I'm pretty sure your right. It was pretty brilliant, IF Caller is mafia. I'd seriously like to see anybody truly say with a sane mind that you have raped me at all. Um...You have 1 vote, yes. YOU ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DISCUSS, like you seem to be pretty interested in right now? Where was this when Citizen was killing himself YESTERDAY. Maybe you don't have all day to sit around a computer, but you damn sure had time to respond to me nuking and changing my vote. Citizen was only at 5 votes, BECAUSE he voted for himself. Mafia obviously only have one anti-nuke that they used to save Caller. I have the ability to discuss, which was why I asked you why you made your ambiguous statement. Are you seriously blind or are you trying to purposefully dodge questions directed at you? What can I do when I ask a question and you don't say anything? come over to your house and beat you up for an answer? I can't discuss an aspect of voting when the person I'm trying to draw discussion from, you, elects to not give an answer to my question. On top of that, I sure had plenty of time to respond to you nuking and changing your vote? I just said how I hadn't even posted until an hour after this has happened. Surely, this must mean that all the 5 hours in between means that I'm at my PC at all times. On top of this, you say mafia obviously only had one anti-nuke to save Caller. But how do you know this unless you're mafia? In fact, you can't say anything at all about mafia nuke capabilities unless you're mafia. Also, Ace, this game seems a shit town more balanced than the one on mafia scum. The nuke stealer is arguably a town role if Ace modeled that role off the two games on mafia scum. But I do think you would tell the mafia countries not in the game to prevent the mass roleclaim vs. anti-nukes like it.... It can be argued that the nuke stealer can be either town or mafia. What's your point? Basically. Points: 1)I'm not mafia, Abenson saved Zona. Your argument is we did that to further our town image...which was already amazingly pro-town. 2)I'm not mafia, I championed saving plenty of pro-town. I tried to save RoL (I only voted for him to save abenson), and I tried to have L saved. 3)I think wasting an anti-nuke saving a townie I had begun to suspect for a bit is crazy...I would damn sure be selfish with it, and NEVER have claimed I had an anti-nuke. Your arguments for me being mafia are fail. You sat by waiting for citizen to die. You sir, are mafia. I'm asking Haster to explain what I did, for my own personal Lulz. I'd explain it, but I really want more posting. 1) Abenson saved Zona, yeah, not you. That doesn't mean you aren't mafia. 2) A lot of people championed saving plenty of pro-town, myself included. 3) You claimed you have multiple anti-nukes by your wording earlier. Yet Abenson has only saved one townie, Zona. Why didn't you save Zona or Nemy with your other anti-nukes? | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 09 2010 23:29 ~OpZ~ wrote: Maybe I should be more specific Go read when L was being nuked repetitively. I championed saving him. BM saved him. I couldn't save him at the time because Abenson was the one granted with the Anti-nuke at the time. Abenson saved Zona. Your out of order right there LMNOP. I breadcrumbed Abenson when I was the one being lynched, AT YOUR URGING. Lol. It's funny...Let's see what JeeJee says about the math though. Someone here is mafia. I guess for me to be mafia, Citizen Haster Me and Abenson need to be mafia. And that be it with the mafia.... I like that. There's your addition that will work if you wanna use it. I think it's funny. Incorrect. If you were mafia; then citizen, you, and any two of iaaan/citizen/jeejee/haster are mafia. You being mafia has no bearing on Abenson being mafia at all. BM saved L, BECAUSE ABENSON WAS NOT ON TO LAUNCH THE ANTI-NUKE. I posted that REPEATEDLY in the thread, and even said "I was not the one given antinukes" to Versatile. Quit ignoring all my other posts that I've made to build your argument. I stated I had anti-nukes because...well I dunno about you, but I don't feel like getting fucking nuked. Caller claimed to not have anti-nukes to save his. Lolz? Argument only works for him? Nikon claimed to have taken a hit. There was one night kill. Iaaan claimed vet too, but didn't claim to have been hit. Nikon reflected a nuke. Iaaan said vet had day time protection. So NATURALLY, putting two and two together, the average SK is a combination of a vet and a vigi, WITH their own win condition. Don't need to be mafia to figure that much out. Lol. You don't need to be mafia to see that. HOW CAN YOU KNOW NIKON ACTUALLY TOOK A HIT UNLESS YOU AS MAFIA KNOW YOU HIT HIM? The only way you could know Nikon was third party instead of mafia is if you were mafia. Nikon could've thrown a hit on Versatile as well as mafia, or Nikon could've elected to not use his hit as strange as that may be. It's not natural at all to assume SK is a combination of vet and vigi. Are you daft? Uhm.... I'm arguing you are mafia. You could of ARGUED for everyone to pull their votes off and think before lynching citizen. But you didn't post for those five hours, NOR did you do ANYTHING before you disappeared. We needed a strong argument TO STOP THE DAY FROM ENDING. And citizen had to go and fuck EVERYTHING up by voting for himself. LMNOP before citizens death, because he doesn't seem to have a position at all in these posts....right? I had already said that Caller's position makes more sense than citizen's position. Nobody is arguing that. Your claim that I was content in citizen dying is that since I was on at the time that the nuke was going to land, and did absolutely nothing, then obviously, I'm fine with him dying. That's an illogical conclusion for numerous reason. For one: I'm of the opinion that claiming he can only launch retaliatory nukes, claiming PGO, then saying that he doesn't have any night-retaliatory action is a lie. There's no sense in that at all. Secondly, after I do my first post where I say "since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time", right after, you even quote me, and say that you'll launch a nuke to extend the day even further. Given your track record for the previous day, am I suddenly supposed to deny your claim? Thirdly: my last post was at 0:51, 5 complete hours before the nuke hits. And I come back one hour after the nuke hits. Yet this obviously means that I am content with citizen dying. You have not given a logical response to this other than your belief, which may I remind you: citizen says we're not supposed to rely on, that I was on from 11:25 on April 08 to 05:58 of April 09, almost 24 hours for a shitty mafia game. Are you serious? If you're going to bring in time into this to try to out me, then you're going to have to bring in the whole timeslot rather than just a specific section that makes you look better. 1)If Abenson isn't mafia, I'm not mafia? 2)Who have you championed saving specifically? 3)Lol. If you didn't have any anti-nukes would you say that unless you were being nuked and trying to get a townie to waste theirs like Caller did? Lol. Oh, and I'm assuming D3 is mafia for Saving you LMNOP. 1) Not correct. 2) L for one, considering at the start of the day, a lot of people were interested in lynching him because of his effect on past games when I said that his past games should have no bearing on the outcome of this, so it's a faulty reason for lynch. I specifically say I do think that L's pro-town and these nukes toward him are out of spite rather than for scum tells; I'd like to see L saved When Nikon and Xelin launch nukes at Zona, I say that this was a bullshit move. So I come back, and I see that Nikon nukes Zona. What the fuck? All I see for the reasoning behind this is one little disagreement, which isn’t a disagreement at all as they’re two separate things. Oh just refreshed the page and I see that Nikon says the nuke is fake. First off, what the fuck? There were many people obviously against the nuke and on top of that, there’s quite a decent time frame for an antinuke to get fired. So potentially, you just wasted an anti-nuke. How can you even assume that the nuke *hasn’t* been shot down already? Nuke on Zona initiated by Xelin Going to say that this is retarded as hell Oh look, two people who you seem to value so highly. 3. If you had anti-nukes for town use, wouldn't you save nemy or Zona the second time he had a nuke launched at him? Lol. | ||
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On April 09 2010 23:34 ~OpZ~ wrote: My nuke on Iaaan is fake btw. But Haster seems to have noticed what I did perfectly. Abenson could very well have done without saying I told him to nuke when the day began, but there you go. He said that, preventing the lynch of citizen. No. I didn't antinuke to stop citizen from getting lynched. Abenson nuked to PREVENT citizen from getting lynched. This is faulty right here for one good reason: No town member would throw a vote out in a lylo situation if they weren't completely sure of who they were voting for. | ||
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On April 10 2010 00:03 ~OpZ~ wrote: That's it? No opinion? No response to haster's post? Nothing?! Abenson has a mind of his own. Hence mine and his different votes. He followed my against JohnnySpazz, but every point he made was his own. Completely and totally. Are you honestly suggesting I am the mafia in the group or Abenson is? Let me remind you, I was about to die. I breadcrumbed HIS name. So if there is a mafia between me and him, it is HIM. But I don't feel that is the case. You were about to die? On March 25 2010 03:36 Ace wrote: With 22 alive, it is 12 to lynch. L(7) tree.hugger Versatile Abenson Fishball RebirthofLegend ~Opz~ d3_crescentia ~Opz~(4) Xelin Nikon Elemenope iNfuNdiBuLuM Abenson(7) Iaaan Zona haster27 johnnyspazz JeeJee meeple Amber[LighT] Bill Murray(2) Caller nemY Amount of Nukes Fired: 0 Radiation levels - very low Day ends at 12 AM ET at the current time Yeah. You were in great fucking danger of dying. Abenson and L were the only ones in danger of dying. Consider: A) You are mafia aligned Mason B) Abenson is townie aligned Mason When Abenson is a likely candidate for a lynch, you breadcrumb his name into a post and state that he is a mason along with you later in the day. This way, if Abenson gets lynched, oops, he pops townie Mason, people think you’re town. If he doesn’t get lynched, then you both ride on the fact that you’re Masons, and you can tell which way Abenson should vote in a decisive situation such as this, and the town will believe your claims to be valid thinking that you’re both townie aligned Masons as posited on day 1. He saved Zona. I didn't urge this. I suggested to him Zona might be DT and he agreed. He even messaged it to Ace early, and said he tried to "un-antinuke" at one point because he wanted to save it. I just told him, Zona and Haster27 were the first to defend us when we claimed Mason. I figured we owed Zona one for this, but I didn't say that to him. I'm glad he did anti-nuke it though. And we both were betting he was the cop. Oops, he was Vigi...Guess we were wrong there... So then why was neither Zona nor nemy saved again? We also haven't been very far from each others opinions. We just haven't voted for the same targets. I'm against bandwagoning for the most part. So. Basically. If one of us is an EVIL MASON, it is him. But I don't feel that is the case. I feel we only were granted a tracker. No DT. Um, do you not understand the power of a Mason? They have one less person to convince in order to get a majority lynch on someone. This is a huge advantage. The fact that you two aren’t even taking advantage of this until the very last game-deciding vote is quite suspicious. And no DT? Have you been paying attention to the game at all? No Bus Driver has stepped forward. So please. Please gosh jolly green fucking giant, PLEASE explain how Caller makes sense? Why don’t we just have the nuke stealer step forward. Oh wait. Then JeeJee and Abenson were lying obviously. | ||
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On April 10 2010 00:22 ~OpZ~ wrote: Check Caller's games. Secret Nazi had extra night lives. http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Serial_killer Stop arguing about SK. I've done argued the point mafia could of hit versatile also (when Nikon was still alive, just after the night ended), BUT versatile seemed pretty fucking scummy to everyone. You included. I think Nikon was trying to help us then. I'm arguing, out of all the posts you made, you never told anyone NOT to vote for citizen. And to use the remaining time to think instead. No. Instead you FURTHERED THE BANDWAGON AGAINST CITIZEN. Are YOU daft? So if we’re taking information from other games about roles, then why aren’t you saying that a claimed PGO who says he can’t kill people at night is a lie? This has been the whole central point: we have a PGO claim by a person who by his own admission, CANNOT PERFORM THE BASICS OF A PGO. If you’re going to take information out of other games in relation to roles to make your claims about others more reasonable, then you have to do the same with all other claims, including those of the PGO. Then Iaaan and JeeJee are mafia. Correct? They through their votes out in the lylo situation. Did you ignore my statement that I had no anti-nukes? Oh. maybe you actually believed me in the last 20 or so pages when I said I had some. Lol. I acted like I did. Maybe I explicitly claimed them. But everyone seems to be ignoring Haster's post. No comment from anyone? I would of saved L if I could. I PM'd ACE ASKING if I could control Abensons anti-nukes. I PM'd Chezinu to try and get him to take over Abenson's role. (Abenson was gone for something, asked to be replaced, I couldn't save L myself, because I have no Anti-nukes) There. Now you can have a draw LMNOP. Since you had to know that. I have no anti-nukes. Not a single one. You misinterpret what I’m saying. I’m saying there was no need for a nuke at the start because if there were no nukes, a town member wouldn’t throw a lynch vote out. The way for a town member to prevent a lynch in a lylo situation isn’t to throw out a fake nuke. It’s to not vote right away until the facts are apparent. Now, it just seems you asked Abenson to nuke you, so you can “lay out this epic trap”, when it just seems you wanted to see how many people would’ve voted to lynch your mafia partner, and in turn, when you see that he is in fact danger of dying, try to flip it around and get someone else lynched. As for you saying you have no more anti-nukes: I don’t find this true at all. If we’re going to point out people for their lies, then this also applies to you. Claiming you have anti-nukes, then when called out on why you wouldn’t save two people who almost by everybody’s admission are townies, you switch and say “nope lol I simply acted as such” when this is a fucking game changing event. This is complete bullshit and I find it very hard to believe you’re townie with this especially. You lie about the nuke landing early to gauge how people would vote. You lied about having an anti-nuke. When is this supposed townie-aligned mason going to stop lying when lying is detrimental to the town? | ||
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Amber votes L Zona Votes Caller Xelin votes Opz Meeple votes Opz Treehugger votes L Oh, and I just saw something curious reading through: On March 24 2010 04:50 ~OpZ~ wrote: You clearly have anti-nukes. =D Anyway, Long story short, read my post directed at Xelin. Anyway: Versatile votes L Caller votes Opz Abenson votes L Opz Votes Nemy Johnnyspazz votes L Iaaan votes Abenson Fishball votes L Johnnyspazz removes vote from L, places it onto Nemy Zona removes vote from Caller, places it on Phrujabz Opz removes from Nemy, places it onto Phrujabz *This is where you breadcrumb Abenson into your post* So at this state: L has 5 votes of needed 12 You have 3 votes of needed 12 Abenson has 1 vote of needed 12 Then Phrujabz is about to be modkilled, so Xelin votes Abenson Zona votes Abenson I vote Opz Nikon votes Opz Caller removes vote from Opz to Bill Murray RoL votes L Infund votes Opz Haster votes Abenson Johnnyspazz votes Abenson JeeJee vote Abenson Meeple removes vote from Opz to Abenson D3 votes L Amber votes Abenson Opz removes vote from Phrujabz onto L Nemy votes Bill Murray Which is where we stand at the quote. So at the time of you breadcrumbing Abenson into your post, you were a full 2 votes below L and a full 9 votes below the needed 12. You cannot claim that you breadcrumbed Abenson into your post because “you were in danger of dying” You didn’t even hit 6 votes ever, 5 was the maximum amount of votes you had on you the whole day 1. How can anybody who has less than half the votes of the town think they’re in danger of dying, especially when that person was active? L was always in a greater danger of dying than anybody else until Phrujabz was to be modkilled, and then we had cited that Abenson couldn’t get away with inactivity. This right here should’ve clued you in thinking that you were completely safe from any type of lynch. Who would think of themselves to be a viable lynch target with less than half the townie votes, unless you’re dumb or RoL, neither mutually exclusive. On April 10 2010 00:40 ~OpZ~ wrote: JeeJee. I'm tired, I gotta work. I've explained my trap. If you don't see it I don't know what to think. Could I possibly convince you to vote for LMNOP then? One of us posting right now is atleast mafia. Be it Haster, LMNOP, Citizen, or You. I personally am going with Me, You, Haster, Citizen, and Abenson being town. Or is it Me You Abenson D3 Caller? Neither way leaves room for LMNOP, and both ways have 5 "Confirmed" townies. LMNOP is mafia by the numbers according to Callers alignment check of D3, BY THE LOGIC YOU WANT TO GO BY. Let us Lynch LMNOP. If Haster and Citizen are right, Then LMNOP is mafia. If Caller is right, LMNOP is mafia. THERE IS NO WAY GIVEN THE NUMBERS (IF you aren't Mafia) FOR LMNOP TO BE TOWN. (Unless there are really only 3 fucking mafia, or no mafia, but if there is no mafia, we might as well lynch LMNOP anyway.) Do you also keep ignoring my calls for your role claim on purpose? -_- [b]OR[/b which you seem to casually exclude. Mafia are You, Citizen, and one or two of JeeJee/Haster/Iaaan are mafia which means that Caller, Abenson, d3, myself, and the other 2 or 1 of JeeJee/Haster/Iaaan are town. You claim that you are townie-aligned, which means that there is no way for me to be innocent whether Caller is lying or Caller is telling the truth. But as a townie-aligned person, you are also lying on the last day which is especially scummy, so I don’t fully trust you to be townie-aligned at all which throws this argument out the window. | ||
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On April 10 2010 10:01 ~OpZ~ wrote: no...you haven't launched one. I mean, truth, all mafia has to do is launch nukes at one townie... Yet I, confirmed mafia, who has not launched any nuke at all yet so I'm sure to have one, has surely conspired with my fellow mafia to all launch nukes at a single townie. Obviously. | ||
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On April 10 2010 10:08 haster27 wrote: Yes, I know your nukes are fake, and you are probably trying to muck up the debate by trying to get citizen to launch nukes. It will not work. However, it is important to set up contingency plans for all possibilites, right? That is pro-town. How can he get citizen to launch nukes? citizen already launched a nuke JeeJee retaliated to it. Citizen can't launch more nukes at him. What are you on? | ||
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On April 10 2010 10:09 flamewheel91 wrote: By the way guys, in case you didn't know JeeJee's nuke didn't go through... Ace said so through PMs. what? Second off: On April 10 2010 10:10 haster27 wrote: Well, okay, I am putting a bit of faith on ~OpZ~ here, because I do believe he is Mason. Also, seriously? Mafia can win the game after lynching one Townie since town is in permanent lylo, and they can launch nuke anytime if they are in fail position upcoming days. Are you seriously suggesting Mafia will throw away the win they almost obtained? What win? Opz has all the mafia by their balls apparently. We have no chance to win now according to Opz. Which means that I should be telling my mafia buddies to go out and throw all these nukes out to get ToD and end the game. In fact, regardless if Opz has all the other mafia pinned, at the very least Caller and I should be throwing out nukes onto other townies, since we're outed as confirmed mafia, after all, if we were to die, why not take a townie with us? | ||
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On April 10 2010 10:18 haster27 wrote: To the contrary, when the ~OpZ~ had citizen side by the balls, why didn't Mafia follow same nuke ditch strategy either? Your argument is ineffective. I don't know why mafia didn't follow the same strategy. Why don't you go ask them? | ||
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On April 10 2010 10:32 citi.zen wrote: Excellent. So then My nuke did not go through either, right? So let's do this the right way JeeJee - launch you nuke now. You go first, i retaliate. Let's go. Do you not read? Holy shit. | ||
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On April 11 2010 02:57 Zona wrote: The town could have fired a nuke and drawn the game...why did you close it so early? Because win condition states when we reach majority at *any* time during the day, we win. | ||
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On April 11 2010 03:08 Ver wrote: I loved Caller's strategy. Hosting his games must've paid off. Caller's Recipe for Success. What to do if you get caught red-handed: 1) Post immediately out of nowhere after being accused despite having lurked the entire game. 2) Make up a bunch of random and far-fetched claims to mislead them. A cop here, random nation there, weird sanity here, convenient dead person check there...hmm that's not good enough. 3) Add even more bizarre claims to confuse them so much they just ignore you. What's missing? Invent a role! How about a Bus driver switch? Follow it up by sidetracking everyone into debates about how this role that doesn't exist works so they forget about the real issue. 4) When people finally stop getting sidetracked and come back to accusing you, spice it up more! Reveal you are actually an even more suspicious country, supply some random filler, and 'rolecheck' your accusers. 5) Now sidetrack everything onto a long debate about how the accuser's role works according to other rules to make everyone confused and waste time. Accuse said person that they don't understand their role. Mayhem ensues and town misses the lynch. In Caller's defense, shinbichan and caller wanted to just leave it at the paranoid/insane DT. I told Caller to use the bus driver too. + Show Spoiler [AIM Conversation we had about this] + (8:47:32 PM) Shinbichan: whats ur plan that we dont want to do? (8:47:34 PM) Caller: ohi (8:47:34 PM) Shinbichan: claim bus driver? (8:47:35 PM) Shinbichan: lol (8:47:36 PM) Elemenope: yeah (8:47:40 PM) Shinbichan: i have no idea how trackers work with drivers (8:47:41 PM) Elemenope: claim he got bussed (8:47:44 PM) Shinbichan: ace, wanna hlep us out? (8:47:46 PM) Caller: i like bus driver (8:47:47 PM) Ace: no (8:47:47 PM) Elemenope: who cares (8:47:47 PM) Shinbichan: how would it work (8:47:48 PM) Ace: lol (8:47:48 PM) Elemenope: LISTEN (8:47:50 PM) Elemenope: LISTEN (8:47:53 PM) Elemenope: IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW IT WOULD WORK (8:47:56 PM) Ace: figure this one out on your own (8:47:57 PM) Elemenope: WE'RE MAKING SHIT UP and later on, my reasoning for introducing the bus driver (8:49:34 PM) Shinbichan: what's the point? (8:49:35 PM) Elemenope: TO CONFUSE THE TOWN (8:49:37 PM) Elemenope: WHO GIVES A FUCK | ||
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On April 11 2010 03:17 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: If we were to play a similar ruleset, something would have to be done about the day extension as it is too easily abused imo. This. We talked to Ace about it because the first day, my interest in the game just went down hill at the end, and then the extensions during the previous day or two was also annoying as well. Basically for our action list: RoL launched nuke on Caller, we saved Caller like a few hours before it hit; I know it was before L nuked himself. Xelin launches nuke on me, d3 anti's it in similar fashion. So we're down 2 antis, and we're like "fuck, oh well, we can always go back to our pre-game plan of just nuking everybody", then we don't get nuked ever again. We hit meeple as he was posting just enough to seem active, and with some good points, but trying to also hide it seemed. So we figured he had a blue role. Luckily he was DT. D3's prot went on me. We elected to not use roleblock so that Shinbichan can claim he was roleblocked. Shinbichan also had nukes stolen from him at this time and was raging that he no longer had a nuke I believe. I forget if he started with a nuke or not. Day 2 comes around: Fishball comes out with his claim. Caller is asking just to nuke fishball on aim. Then we have the DT claim, with caller claiming to check meeple. But that wasn't enough. I wanted the bus driver to go through too in an effort to confuse the town. Hoping that town would think "This claim is so ridiculous that nobody would fake this." So then that happened. Then more nukes from townies to other townies. We hit Versatile that night because she said that she had nukes for days. Which we didn't particularly like. We thought she was the nuke stealer at first or the SK. Then we saw that she was Russia and said "oh". Prot went on me again. Roleblock went on Fishball. This was because we thought Versatile was more of a threat since we could just roleblock a blue. This was also, in my mind, a test to see if he was PGO and trying to draw a hit. Since L, the medic, was dead along with meeple, the DT, and since shinbichan had no nukes, I figured why not see. I don't think I told my fellow dota fgts this though. Day 3: We decide that we want to kill Fishball since we can't RB the same person twice in a row. I believe this was the day that Nikon and Iaaan claim veteran also, and we knew at that point that Nikon was the SK, hence none of us shooting a nuke at him when he was begging for it. Thanks to Nemy for stepping up and getting killed. We killed Fishball, protect Caller [since SK had to start killing mafia to win, and Caller was the most obvious choice], and roleblocked Haster since we figured he was the nuke stealer because most of the countries were big time countries while Portugal seemed out of place. Along with the fact that he was also a townie with no other ability; we thought that iaaan was telling the truth, Opz and Abenson are obviously masons, and since fishball was dying, who cares. Didn't want to hit infund/citizen due to PGO possibility that he would neglect to mention to draw a hit. Day 4: The epitome of nonsense in my opinion. I really don't know where to begin with this day. Night actions were kill Opz, roleblock nobody again [since we didn't really have a good choice], and save Caller again. Little did we know: Shinbichan, the one went to such great lengths to try to get a flawless victory, died to haster. Day 5: We just launch nukes obviously. Who cares at this point? Overall: Mafia MVP=Town definitely. I have no idea why you guys would shoot nukes at each other because "I have a feeling." What's more amazing is the fact that RoL would launch a nuke at Caller, then when caller gets saved and RoL gets lynched, he nukes johnny. Equally amazing is the fact that Xelin launches a nuke at me because he's sure I'm mafia, then when he launches his second nuke, he does it towards Zona because of stuff unrelated to the game really. Also, the ability of the town to get sidetracked so easily by nonsense is quite good. Oh, and initially: our pregame plan was just to get L killed. We're glad town did that for us without our help. Edit 2: This is how we felt about the town, summed up: + Show Spoiler [Another conversation] + (9:16:03 PM) Caller: what kind of an idiot will believe me (9:16:03 PM) Shinbichan: i will make sure xelin dies (9:16:08 PM) Shinbichan: HAVE U SEEN THSI TOWN ? (9:16:11 PM) Shinbichan: DO YOU HAVE TO ASK THAT QUESTION? Edit 3: And Ace's feelings about the bus driver claim: + Show Spoiler + (10:13:59 PM) Ace: lol (10:14:05 PM) Ace: this is definitely (10:14:13 PM) Caller: BALLS OUT (10:14:14 PM) Ace: going down as one of the most epic mafia moments I've ever seen (10:14:16 PM) Ace: a guy survives (10:14:18 PM) Ace: a nuke (10:14:22 PM) Ace: almsot a lynch (10:14:25 PM) Ace: massive accusations (10:14:33 PM) Ace: busts out a bus driver fucked me over insane cop role claim (10:14:37 PM) Ace: and everyone nods their heads (10:14:40 PM) Ace: this is bs lol | ||
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On April 11 2010 05:45 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I think the distraction provided by XeliN / Nikon really helped him get away with it. edit: i'm also surprised at the number of nukes the mafia had A lot of people helped out a lot and it was mainly due to the discussion of the 'What do we do with people who launch nukes?' I hope in the future, people realize that when town makes an idea such as "we auto-lynch unsupported nukes", that some people are going to vote for that; especially when it's in mafia's favor. Look at the lynches: RoL, Xelin, Nikon, [no lynch]; RoL was Day 1 lynch so that can possibly be excused, but then he launched a nuke which sent him to 15 votes IIRC. Xelin - the nuke on me and the nuke on Zona especially. Nikon - asked for a nuke to hit him and then reflected it back. Tree.hugger, BM, and nemy are also victims of this, though nemy's a bit of an exception. If all town aligned people followed the plan of no unsupported nukes from the very start, a lot of this would've been avoided and Caller was going to be a sure lynch on Day 2 most likely. Especially with Fishball tracking him. These random nukes by town only helped us in giving a higher priority lynch target and you guys simply did our work for us pretty much. The point of town isn't to figure out who mafia is on your own and then act on it, saying "I've got a feeling." If you think someone is mafia, come up with arguments to show so, because if you just act on your own and people who you *think* is mafia, you're going to look scummy and get via lynch or someone else who decides to take action. ToD was plenty enough to just use nukes as a day vigi hit, even with retaliation from scum members. Basically, shooting nukes without town permission basically meant free lynch. I'm sure a lot of people would've said that we should nuke Caller on Day 2 if all this stuff on Day 1 didn't happen, especially if Fishball came out with that tracker post. Edit: On April 11 2010 06:08 Zona wrote: Remember the mafia had only one kill per night. Nukes in their hands were one of the ways to counterbalance their lack of killing power. The game did end the way I predicted - once a portion of the town members died and the few anti-nukes exhausted, the mafia nukes would decide the game. The town had even fewer anti-nukes than I thought, though. Forgot to say so earlier: Thanks to Ace for hosting the game, and flamewheel91 for wrapping up the end. Luckily all the game's anti-nukes were used up Day 1 ^^ | ||
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On April 11 2010 06:27 L wrote: Not really. That was stupid in its own right, but the last day alone was absolutely ridiculous. The entire mafia team was caught and townies basically went: " Ok lol, we won't kill any of you :3 :3 :3 " Best part about the last day was the fact that Shinbichan launched a nuke after the deadline and pretended his internet was blowing balls. And all the stuff that happened afterwards for about the next two pages. | ||
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On April 11 2010 07:40 johnnyspazz wrote: should've saved me for the nukes and antinukes More like RoL should've launched his revenge nuke at Caller. I seriously have to question this move. | ||
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On April 11 2010 08:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: He wasn't allowed to launch it at caller actually. From what RoL told me about the vengence nuke was you could only nuke someone who voted for you, and apparently caller didn't vote for him. Ah, well. I suppose Caller being Caller wins out yet again? | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 11 2010 12:01 JeeJee wrote: also epic quotes (filler text usually cut out) **initial plans** + Show Spoiler + [22 Mar 10 22:25] * ace * all im saying is [22 Mar 10 22:25] * ace * look at the power of your roles [22 Mar 10 22:26] * elemenope * what, we have nukes [22 Mar 10 22:26] * elemenope * that's all we need [22 Mar 10 22:26] * ace * and how hard it is for you to just straight out get raped by nukes [22 Mar 10 22:26] * shinbi * ace i think ur problem is [22 Mar 10 22:26] * caller * wtf i wanna nuke L [22 Mar 10 22:26] * shinbi * u think we're good at mafia [22 Mar 10 22:26] * shinbi * but we just wanna nuke shit [22 Mar 10 22:26] * caller * i agree [22 Mar 10 22:26] * ace * I know  **discussing night kills and random roletalk -- night 1** oh and meeple snipe reasoning is in here. at least my take on it, lmnop had a different reason iirc + Show Spoiler + [14:32] elemenope: anyway, what I'm thinking of is prot-me, kill-meeple, rb-whoever [14:32] shinbi: no [14:32] shinbi: we have a problem [14:32] elemenope: what [14:32] shinbi: or rather [14:32] shinbi: an issue worth discussing [14:32] shinbi: i talked to ace-- it matters WHO sends in the kill [14:32] shinbi: becaus that person is doing hte killing [14:33] shinbi: this leads me to believe there is like a triggerhappy or a tracker role in the game [14:33] elemenope: so we'll have caller do it [14:33] elemenope: easy pz [14:33] shinbi: tbh i think meeple is DT, but if he's not [14:33] shinbi: why not have you do it? [14:33] shinbi: if you hit a triggerhappy, you have medic prot [14:33] elemenope: wouldn't that bypass medic prot? [14:34] shinbi: i dunno [14:34] shinbi: i don think it should [14:34] shinbi: otoh if it uses up a medic prot and like SK hits u then u'll still die [14:34] shinbi: so maybe we're just better off using caller [14:34] elemenope: yeah [14:34] elemenope: we'll just have caller do it [14:35] shinbi: ok [14:35] shinbi: btw the reason i think meeple is dt is cos [14:35] shinbi: before L died he had like 35 posts [14:35] shinbi: after L died he had like 2 [14:35] shinbi: maybe he's thinking " o shit no more medix for me" [14:35] shinbi:  [14:35] elemenope: yeah **during discussing of the insane-dt-bussed-onto-dead-guy plans** + Show Spoiler + [31 Mar 10 21:53] * caller * i should totally claim tracker [31 Mar 10 21:53] * caller * and claim i tracked fishball [31 Mar 10 21:53] * caller * and saw him hit meeple [31 Mar 10 21:53] * shinbi * SO MAFIA HAS A ROLEBLOCKER AND A BUS? [31 Mar 10 21:53] * ace * lmao [31 Mar 10 21:53] * shinbi * i find that hard to believe [31 Mar 10 21:53] * shinbi * that's fucking imba as fuck [31 Mar 10 21:53] * elemenope * FUCK WHAT YOU FIND HARD TO BELIEVE [31 Mar 10 21:53] * elemenope * THIS IS WORLD AT WAR [31 Mar 10 21:53] * ace * somehow [31 Mar 10 21:53] * ace * I see this ending very badly [31 Mar 10 21:56] * caller * so what did i do [31 Mar 10 21:56] * shinbi * go claim you got bussed [31 Mar 10 21:56] * shinbi * from nikon [31 Mar 10 21:56] * shinbi * to meeple [31 Mar 10 21:56] * caller * as a dt [31 Mar 10 21:56] * shinbi * yes [31 Mar 10 21:56] * elemenope * Yes [31 Mar 10 21:56] * caller * and on top of that im paranoid/insane [31 Mar 10 21:56] * shinbi * as a, you've found out, insane dt [31 Mar 10 21:56] * caller * lol ok [31 Mar 10 21:56] * caller * this seems highly implausible [31 Mar 10 21:56] * caller * and is going to get me killed [31 Mar 10 21:57] * d3_crescentia * yes. [31 Mar 10 21:57] * caller * but i like it [31 Mar 10 21:58] * shinbi * for the record, i think the bus claim is fucking stupid as fuck-all. and is going to get caller killed after the bus claim worked, it all kind of generated into random lulz and shit so i don't really have much to post aside from elemenope making fun of my bottles oh and one final excerpt for flamewheel commenting on elemenope's wall of text posts.. this was our take + Show Spoiler + [25 Mar 10 23:23] * shinbi * you realize i hope [25 Mar 10 23:23] * shinbi * nobody reads them [25 Mar 10 23:23] * shinbi * even i didn't [25 Mar 10 23:23] * elemenope * yeah I know [25 Mar 10 23:23] * elemenope * but when somebody says something [25 Mar 10 23:23] * elemenope * I'm just like [25 Mar 10 23:23] * elemenope * hey douche bag [25 Mar 10 23:23] * elemenope * I addressed this here [25 Mar 10 23:23] * elemenope * fucking read next time [25 Mar 10 23:23] * shinbi * LOL [25 Mar 10 23:23] * ace * lmao again thanks for the game ace, was lulz ^^. based on M.A.D. from MS i guess? edit @haster oh right. cuz i knew my nuke didn't go through, i was just screwing with the town during pages 115-116. i forgot that kind of revealed that i'm mafia and should've requested prot.. oh well If the bus claim wasn't thrown in, admit it: we would've lost. Just admit it right here 6 bottle shinbichan. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 11 2010 14:04 JeeJee wrote: tbh, there was no way you would have lynched any mafia that day. if lmnop/caller were actually in danger of getting lynched, we were gonna have d3 play the "lol im too busy but lets make it fun ##nuke:opz" card, drawing out an anti-nuke if there is one, and have caller/lmnop throw down real nukes after cuz we needed 2 to land for victory. i guess if we had done that during day4 we would've had that flawless which i oh so wanted, but decided to go with nolynch and do the nuke plan after as then we would only need 1 of the nukes to hit, so less risk in that sense. of course i ended up dying so both would've had to land anyway.... oh well come to think of it, did u guys even consider this when launching the nukes? were u so certain both were gonna land due to some new info or were you under the impression that we still needed only one? i was sleeping so i wasn't part of the decision making process there i mean i think flamewheel wasnt aware as he said it's gonna be gg as soon as one of the nukes lands which wasn't true actually, needed both. but yeah, fill me in? durr nvm im stupid ignore the above I had asked Flamewheel what his definition of majority was, and he said if we had 3-3, then we would win. I had waited until Caller was online before sending in our night actions anyway to ensure that we had 2-3 regardless. And since no anti-nukes were used previously, I was sure both were going to hit unless some townie decided that saving nemy would be an awful idea. aka You're dumb, 6 bottle more on Tiny fgt. | ||
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