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i agree with waiting out the rest of the day and night. as i stated before, if we launch any nukes at mafia, i think they will just shoot them down. lynching is the only surefire way of getting a red out of the game.
i'll say it one more time: i am not going to fire again without town consent. i have no reason to at this point.
also, there have been plenty of people who the town has suspected. to decide how to lynch them, i say we rank them in order of most suspect. here is my list, make your own if you don't agree with it.
1. caller: was anonymously saved and has posted very little. little to no posting is a mafia tell for him.
2. iaaan: scummy posting style pointed out by several players.
3. tree.hugger/versatile/xelin: for non-consensus nuking.
suspicious: LMNOP for attacking opz and abenson after mason claim. the one thing i'd like to point out here is that L also advocated for killing one to prove the other if i am remembering correctly, and he was a towny. and i believe one other person did the same as well.
then there is zona's inactive list, L's vote list, and the list i posted.
L's vote list (as of page 21):
tree.hugger
Versatile
Abenson
Fishball
RebirthofLegend
~Opz~
d3_crescentia
zona's latest inactive list:
iNfuNdiBuLuM: 31
JeeJee: 30
Iaaan: 29
meeple: 28
Fishball: 26
Amber[LighT]: 26
Nikon: 18
d3_crescentia: 14
nemY: 13
Abenson: 12
Caller: 12
Phrujbaz: 2
Versatile's suspect list:
iaaan
caller
amberlight
nemy
d3_crescentia
xelin
nikon
fishball
i'd just like to point out that fishball and d3_crescentia are on all three of those lists. just something to note. not putting FoS on them, but the fact that they're on 3 different lists, all of which were formed with different criteria speaks to the need for both to give more to the town and a necessary increase in pro-town behavior. abenson, nikon, iaaan, amberlight, nemy and caller are on two of those lists each. abenson voted for L to save himself and told us he was going to be inactive so i believe it's safe to cross him off. nemy has been kind of inactive in both this game and zona's game, so that's something to take into consideration.
i also think it may be interesting to see how zona's inactive lists have changed over the course of the game. not saying we will definitely get something useful out of them, but we should be looking for patterns.
i welcome thoughts and opinions on this post.
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On March 29 2010 01:49 tree.hugger wrote:
~OpZ~, I've read your posts on the last two pages, and I have absolutely no idea what you're advocating. Absolutely none. Your wall-of-text has nothing holding it together, I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to prove.
You've advocated Day 2 lynching me, then XeliN, and then Caller over the last two pages.
Please stop spamming the thread. You, Versatile, Abenson, and the rest of your mafia compatriots should probably stop attracting more suspicion.
and where do you get off calling me mafia? i'd love to know your theory.
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omg wtf. this is the day that never ends.....yes it goes on and on my friend...
lol.
well, i do think tree.hugger's last post is scummy in the sense that we're 63 pages in, and he hasn't questioned the mason claim but now he comes in and tries to say that opz is mafia with me? do you know how many times opz almost killed me for what i did to L? and why didn't he address this earlier?
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On March 29 2010 02:10 XeliN wrote:
Ok I'd like to highlight this, if Tree.Hugger is lynched tomorrow and flips red then Versatile is going to be red as well, Tree's early post grouping "and opz versatile abenson" was very strange and tbh the post versatile just made as well as his seems to me forced mafia interaction, i.e. fake.
This is simply a hypothesis if Tree flips red upon death.
are you kidding me? you know what's worse than being attacked by someone for no reason? someone else saying you're in cahoots with them and it's staged. smh. tree.hugger is trying to paint me. he hasn't said one word to me all game, and now he lines me up with opz and says we're both mafia? c'mon. don't fall for the hype, xelin. think about this seriously please.
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On March 29 2010 02:10 Nikon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2010 02:09 Versatile wrote:
omg wtf. this is the day that never ends.....yes it goes on and on my friend...
lol.
well, i do think tree.hugger's last post is scummy in the sense that we're 63 pages in, and he hasn't questioned the mason claim but now he comes in and tries to say that opz is mafia with me? do you know how many times opz almost killed me for what i did to L? and why didn't he address this earlier? So... do you think he's going to get saved from the nuke?
at this point, i'm not sure. one scummy post does not mean he's mafia. but i would like him to elaborate on why he said what he said. i do think firing the nuke was a bit premature, but i'm not really in a place to judge.
but hey, now that i've answered your question, maybe you'll answer zona's? do you have any ideas on where to go from here? what do you think of the plans suggested? who are your top suspects, beyond the non-town consensus nukers?
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On March 29 2010 02:15 haster27 wrote:
I strongly believe Versatile is Mafia for several reasons.
Let me first point you to the first point I have against her. This is a direct quote. With second point, it seems like Versatile is pro-town player who is interested in keeping order at the Town. Yet at this moment, she is responsible for greatest chaos in this game and have caused death of two Town players. I cannot comprehend why she would metamorphosis into raging monster like this, only to "[turn] over a new leaf" when L is finally dead. Mafia players generally try to conceal themselves by following the atmosphere of the town (often vote bandwagoning); as same way, she could have tried to downplay significance of her nuke in all hate and panic caused by tree.hugger nuke launch.
Also may I state that the idea she proposed is highly illogical. It adds unnecessarily complexity to the revenge-nuke plan, and the loss from following this plan (Mafia finding out who has nukes) far overpowers the possible gain (prevents two townie from launching nuke at the same time unintentionally). Since nuke seems to Town's main and possibly only source of killing besides lynching (statement justified by the fact that even RoL's special abilities has been executed by means of the nuke), any move trying to find out owner of nukes and anti-nukes is anti-town.
Third, I certainly do not understand why she would have anti-nuked Bill Murray. I understand Townie taking action into one's own hands to get suspect he or she is 100% certain about, but why would one counter-nuke the person who is just trying to follow the protocol of revenge-nuke plan? Even if she is not Mafia, this move is so anti-town that I'll feel no guilt even if she flips Town after she is killed.
Only one thing initially hesitated me from lynching Versatile, and it is that BM's nuke flying toward her has not been intercepted. But once upon thought, Mafia will not intercept the nuke going toward her even if Versatile was Mafia. Versatile is non-concensus nuker whose crusade against L has been proved to be soundly wrong. There is no reason for Town to save her, and in fact considering how much non-concensus nuker Town has, Townie would be relieved that BM's nuke will take their hands off the matter of having to deal with killing Versatile.
Thus saving Versatile will be waste of anti-nuke b/c it will immediately make her clear suspect, and likely to be lynched off day 2. In fact I find that it will be more likely for Mafia to save her if Versatile had been Townie, so they can bandwagon against her day 2 and soak up the lynch.
para 1: you're doing too much WIFOM with that line of thinking. you're right. as mafia, why the hell would i attract so much attention to myself? i have stated many times that i believe L is detrimental to the town. you may disagree with me, and that's fine. but that was my reasoning. i am not the only one to believe that, and i am not the only person who nuked him this game for that same reason.
para 2: what idea are you talking about? if you mean early on in the game, i was trying to help brainstorm a way to nuke non-town consensus nukers without a shitload of nukes being fired. i said that may be we should say okay, person A and/or person B will nuke non-town consensus nuker #1. and person C and/or person D will nuke no-town cencensous nuker #2. and so on. i NEVER said anti-nukers should step forward. i think that's a bad idea. so please do not accuse me of something i never did. i've done enough bad shit for you to harp on about, please do not make things up.
para 3: the whole BM situation got out of hand, and i've already admitted that. i nuked him because he nuked me. i figured, i'm dying, he's killed me, and i'm taking his punk ass with me. not saying it was pro-town, but i would think one could understand the want to take out the person who took you out. i obviously didn't know it was a fake nuke, and check my posting up until i found out it was. i was trying to leave my thoughts in the thread so that they could help the town after my demise. i believe this was pro-town behavior, if nothing else. there was no way i could know BM's nuke was fake unless we were both mafia, correct? AND HE WAS GREEN. so what does this tell you? there was no way that my behavior after getting nuked by BM was staged.
para 4: mafia will not save mafia? are you kidding me? what does mafia lose by saving me? nothing. what do they lose if they don't save me? a member of their team. mafia would not let mafia die because even if they thought it would paint that person guess what? they get to keep another member alive, and they could deal with the repercussions later. both townies and mafia have anti-nukes so this would not be an impossible task. if i had an anonymous anti-nuke save me, i would say you all definitely would need to nuke/lynch me asap. i''ve said that in the case of caller, and that town also needs to take a closer look @ LMNOP for that same reason.
para 5: well, i wasn't saved by anyone, was i?
i respect your opinion to lynch me. i've stated i understand why any townie would want to do so. but please take a look at your arguments first and see if there aren't better targets.
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On March 29 2010 02:16 XeliN wrote:
All of it is hypothetical on Tree flipping red, if he does then yeah I'd consider you a possible partner in crime. Also you did vote for L, something you yourself list as a suspicious action and have currently Nuked a town alligned player. I have my eye on you....
umm no. do we need to work on your reading comprehension?
i listed 3 lists. my own, and the two the town has been using. the L vote list and zona's inactive list. i do not believe myself to be mafia. i hope that is clear.
you can keep your eye on me but if you tell the UN i'm growing hella drugs in my country we're going to have problems during treaty negotiations 
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because i think caller is mafia, and he was anonymously anti-nuked.
i guess i shouldn't state it as a fact, and i apologize for that, but it's what i believe given my behavioral analysis on caller.
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also, knowing ace, i believe he'd give the mafia a role like that. BM was a "one-shot doc" townie so i don't think it's out of the realm to think ace would have given the mafia a similar role.
and even beyond that, if the mafia could not shoot down nukes, but the town could, i think that may be an unfair advantage. town could lynch, nuke, and anti-nuke, but the mafia would only be able to nuke and kill at night. basically, this would allow townies to possibly end the game day 1 if the mafia completely screwed up and were plain to see. 7 nukes fired in day 1 so far, and with 22 players, it's doubtful there's that many mafia in the game. basically, i think it if the mafia didn't have anti-nukes it might break the game. but that's just my opinion, i'm a different kind of mod than ace.
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On March 29 2010 02:49 haster27 wrote:
Point 1: It has nothing to do with what you said, nor the "standard" behaviour of Mafia. I am just confused why you would reverse your position all of the sudden. I mean, I thought you tried to establish order in the Town, yet you suddenly started rampaging.
Point 2: The problem is if person A/B do not have nukes, they are going to say they do not have the nukes- which will continue on before we reach the person who has the nukes. However, at that point, the number of the players in the potential nuke-having Townies list for Mafia to pick from will have been reduced more than necessary. And yeah, ignore anti-nukes part.
Point 3: It is neutral move. It cannot be proved as either pro-town or anti-town move unless the alignment of the players because even if you flip Mafia, the list you posted will simply be WIFOM'd to death.
Point 4: I am assuming Mafia do not have that much anti-nukes here. If then, they will try to use anti-nuke more efficiently. Saving someone targetted by another one of non-concensus nuker Townie is more beneficial than saving someone who will clearly be under lot of suspicion after saving.
However, I agree with your post, which is why my plan does not involve nuking you day 1. I will push you farther down the lynch list when new suspect appears.
1. i stated earlier that when L was nuked, i took that opportunity. so i did not change my stance, L got nuked and i saw an opening and took it.
2. which is why i said i was involved in the brainstorming. as soon as someone pointed that out (i don't remember who) i dropped it as a viable option.
3. that's your opinion, and that's fine.
4. here's my point about that: i don't believe the mafia will save anyone to gain town credibility. why? because they don't need to. we don't know the game set up here. mafia could sit there and not use nukes and not have any attention drawn to them and could gain town favor by the usual methods, posting plans, etc. also, anti-nuking is anonymous. no one can prove it was them. someone could counterclaim and it could become a shitstorm. this is not a smart way to get into the town's good graces. it's a plan, but not necessarily the best.
and thanks. i appreciate when people actually respond to the whole post and not just bits and pieces.
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i personally don't think any more nukes should be fired so we can get to day 2 and a lynch opportunity.
but if the majority of the town wants xelin nuked, i suggest it's done soon so that we don't have to wait 48hrs for day to end.
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On March 29 2010 03:09 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2010 02:47 Versatile wrote:
because i think caller is mafia, and he was anonymously anti-nuked.
i guess i shouldn't state it as a fact, and i apologize for that, but it's what i believe given my behavioral analysis on caller. ok, fair enough. guess our minds are wired differently, as you can see the first conclusion i thought of was that mafia may have no anti-nukes. it just seemed you were so sure, which stood out to me, to say the least.
yeah, i assumed because it's the way i would probably set it up if i was the mod. check my second response to you, i went into greater detail.
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can you cancel a nuke? what?
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On March 29 2010 02:02 Versatile wrote:
i agree with waiting out the rest of the day and night. as i stated before, if we launch any nukes at mafia, i think they will just shoot them down. lynching is the only surefire way of getting a red out of the game.
i'll say it one more time: i am not going to fire again without town consent. i have no reason to at this point.
also, there have been plenty of people who the town has suspected. to decide how to lynch them, i say we rank them in order of most suspect. here is my list, make your own if you don't agree with it.
1. caller: was anonymously saved and has posted very little. little to no posting is a mafia tell for him.
2. iaaan: scummy posting style pointed out by several players.
3. tree.hugger/versatile/xelin: for non-consensus nuking.
suspicious: LMNOP for attacking opz and abenson after mason claim. the one thing i'd like to point out here is that L also advocated for killing one to prove the other if i am remembering correctly, and he was a towny. and i believe one other person did the same as well.
then there is zona's inactive list, L's vote list, and the list i posted.
L's vote list (as of page 21):
tree.hugger
Versatile
Abenson
Fishball
RebirthofLegend
~Opz~
d3_crescentia
zona's latest inactive list:
iNfuNdiBuLuM: 31
JeeJee: 30
Iaaan: 29
meeple: 28
Fishball: 26
Amber[LighT]: 26
Nikon: 18
d3_crescentia: 14
nemY: 13
Abenson: 12
Caller: 12
Phrujbaz: 2
Versatile's suspect list:
iaaan
caller
amberlight
nemy
d3_crescentia
xelin
nikon
fishball
i'd just like to point out that fishball and d3_crescentia are on all three of those lists. just something to note. not putting FoS on them, but the fact that they're on 3 different lists, all of which were formed with different criteria speaks to the need for both to give more to the town and a necessary increase in pro-town behavior. abenson, nikon, iaaan, amberlight, nemy and caller are on two of those lists each. abenson voted for L to save himself and told us he was going to be inactive so i believe it's safe to cross him off. nemy has been kind of inactive in both this game and zona's game, so that's something to take into consideration.
i also think it may be interesting to see how zona's inactive lists have changed over the course of the game. not saying we will definitely get something useful out of them, but we should be looking for patterns.
i welcome thoughts and opinions on this post.
zona, if you want to talk about something, no one has commented on my ideas for day 2 lynch. maybe we can get this squared away before then.
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On March 29 2010 10:39 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2010 10:32 ~OpZ~ wrote:
So lets discuss our lynch targets again.
-_-
This talk of tree.hugger bores me. I'm pretty sure our lynch targets are: ~Opz~ Because, (and maybe others can vouch for me on this one) your attitude is really really annoying. Better have a town taken over by mafia, then have a town in which people like you are allowed to live.
you may find opz annoying but i think at this point it's necessary to suck it up 'cuz we have far more likely mafia members.
what are your thoughts on who to lynch, besides opz? your posts are going to be useful to the town if you don't get saved by an anti-nuke.
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anti-nuke it opz.
nikon just confirmed himself as mafia.
idiot.
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nikon, you can't slip in under the cover of people nuking when you just so happen do it minutes before the town is finally going to night.
obviously, the majority of the town is for moving onto night. and you just so happen to extend it? creating more chaos? gtfo.
opz, do it before one of his buddies extends it with another one of their nukes.
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On March 30 2010 02:10 Nikon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2010 02:05 Versatile wrote:
anti-nuke it opz.
nikon just confirmed himself as mafia.
idiot. Yeah, look how well that went with RoL.
then you should have learned from his example, aye?
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so nikon is going to live until day 2 for sure. either he's mafia, or just a dumbass towny who's got all our attention so the mafia isn't going to kill him.
mafia is probably going to kill one of us active players, so i suggest we all put in the thread what we want the town to know going forth without us before night ends.
my top suspects:
iaaan
caller
amberlight
d3_crescentia
and to a lesser extent:
nikon
fishball
i would like these people to address why they shouldn't be lynched tomorrow. except caller and iaaan. no changing my mind about either of you.
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On March 30 2010 02:13 ~OpZ~ wrote:
You're nuke on L wouldn't of went through if I had them...Really Versatile...You should of guessed that much.
oh. V_V
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EPT
