|
On March 25 2010 12:00 johnnyspazz wrote:
even if caller turns up mafia, we should lynch RoL for being dumb. he's obviously shown that he has no self control and there's a chance he has more than one nuke. we shouldn't give him the opportunity to launch another one.
also i think if his nuke is a dud, we should lynch him anyway.
Last time I checked lynching for stupidity was a nono.
|
On March 25 2010 12:10 Zona wrote:RebirthOfLegend. Awesome player. Comes into the game without reading and understanding the rules. Without reading the posts. With wrong assumptions left and right. And goes against the plan that everyone other player, so far, has adhered to. And worse - you seem to stop caring about winning (helping your side win) the moment your "life" is in danger by making boneheaded moves. Do you even understand the game? The game is about helping your side win, not surviving. If you somehow live long in the game and your side loses, you still lose. Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 08:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I decided I don't feel like wasting 2-3 hours reading around 15 pages just to die especially since I think you can get some more information via nuke. What a piss poor attitude. You signed up to play, and now you don't feel like reading? What did you sign up to do, anyways? To get your username into the "list of players" then ridiculed for not participating? Do you realize that your posts just before you die are the most important posts you make in a game, since when you die, your alignment is revealed and players can re-examine what you've said knowing who you were? Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 09:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I also wasn't posting as much because I didn't fully read the rules yet LOL! So you didn't POST because you didn't fully read the rules...but you decided to NUKE instead? Is your logic a bit backwards? Worried about screwing up your posts (somehow?) by not understanding the game rather than screwing up the GAME by nuking before comprehending? And your obnoxious "LOL"'s in place of any hint of shame or regret. Do you think being cute will make up for the fuckup you've caused? Good riddance.
I fucked up, get the fuck over it, holy shit. I read the rules initially but didn't fully memorize them. I just had an idea of what was going on. It was a new concept its not the shit I have learned and relearned the last 15 games of mafia I have played. When shit changes so does how I have to think. The last 2 days the game has been going I have been busy with school and shit. I have had a lot of work to make up before my spring break starts and when I finally am able to sit down to relax and read some mafia I find myself in a situation where like 8 votes have been stacked on me within a half hour. Now I have around 2 hours (being generous) to read everything and present a convincing argument for me to NOT get lynched.
Here is how I looked at it. From what I HAD read Caller was being active without saying much, he usually plays like that however. The difference is in most other games hes talking a lot in PM's. This time around there is no PM chat (one of the things I remembered!) and he is still not really contributing much. He is one of the guys you wouldn't want to lynch in case he isn't mafia but quite frankly I would rather kill someone I think is mafia.
I chose Caller, I decided he was mafia and opted to nuke him. I think saying that nuking is anti-town is fucking dumb. The mafia and the town have to avoid nuking because alternate conditions can end the game, and neither side would win.
What I think is actually about to happen is Caller isn't going to die, at least by my nuke. I think he is mafia and was feigning a weak country (as seen in earlier posts) and the mafia is going to protect him for the night since you can't see who is actually going to do it.
You should all decide to NOT protect him so him living would in itself be suspicious and would give you more information. I could be wrong that hes mafia, I really have just a tad bit of behavioral analysis on my side but I am pretty confident in what I said. I think Caller would be grandstanding at this point trying to get power and give some good ideas since hes in a precarious position without any PMing.
I fully expect to die, however I think saying my move was anti-town and retarded is dumb in itself. Our goal is to kill the mafia, to say I am trying to make OUR team lose by nuking is dumb. I intend on killing someone I see as mafia and I might as well do it when its the first nuke and the chances of it ending the game are low as shit.
If Caller doesn't die tonight I would label that as suspicious. I don't think there is much of a reason to save him. I am dead anyway, I think the posting about what to do about Caller is much more interesting then just mobbing me for having only 3 fucking posts rofl.
|
On March 25 2010 12:39 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 12:37 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 25 2010 12:00 johnnyspazz wrote:
even if caller turns up mafia, we should lynch RoL for being dumb. he's obviously shown that he has no self control and there's a chance he has more than one nuke. we shouldn't give him the opportunity to launch another one.
also i think if his nuke is a dud, we should lynch him anyway. Last time I checked lynching for stupidity was a nono. last time i checked, that was the whole premise on why we lynched BM last game
I didn't play last game. In rare cases do you lynch on stupidity (unless you believe its a mafia feint tactic)
|
On March 25 2010 13:18 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 08:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I am just saying when I die look at his hypocrisy from saying I am most likely innocent to preserve balance which logically makes sense, to I am inactive scum. Since I'm going through everything again I might as well respond to this as well. A player is allowed to change their mind when a good reason is given. And the reason was given here: Show nested quote +On March 24 2010 00:08 Versatile wrote:On March 23 2010 13:15 Zona wrote:
P.S. RoL is probably vanilla town or miller, since he was added as the extra player after roles had already gone out. It'd be termendously unbalancing to add another mafia member. And I doubt Ace would invent another third party role just for an extra player, although that probably would be the most balanced way of handling things.
uh, just to address this. ace is fcukin crazy. no one's alignment, even though RoL was added in at the last minute, is for certain. don't make this mistake.
Just to respond to this real quick. It wasn't some amazing revelation. You must of clearly thought of the possibility that I was indeed scum or third party, but that adding an extra player for balance sake would most likely be a weak townie since it would have much less of an effect on the game. Since a simple pointing that out statement changed your mind it was just kind of like... like you didn't think of that already? Moment. Seemed like you might of regretted saying it. Maybe I was just thinking about it too much, who knows.
---------------------
On March 25 2010 13:18 Zona wrote:Here's an interesting one: Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 12:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
just mobbing me for having only 3 fucking posts rofl.
So you're saying lynching someone for being inactive is bad. (Actually for the day 1 lynch I would say it's often the best we can do. But let's go with your premise for the moment.) Show nested quote +
I think Caller would be grandstanding at this point trying to get power and give some good ideas since hes in a precarious position without any PMing.
And your case against Caller is that he's...being inactive. Because you expect him otherwise to be really involved by "grandstanding" and so on. And you think so strongly about your case that you think you should nuke him. To summarize: Caller's worth nuking because he was inactive, but you're NOT worth lynching because you were inactive. Sigh.
You missed the point, I said why are you lynching me for being inactive on a whim of sorts and I said that the reason caller was suspicious was NOT because of inactivity, but because of the content of his posts and what I would normally expect. He never mentioned being distracted by anything else like school, etc. He was just posting noncontent which is generally considered mafiaish behavior but he usually gets away with it because he is one of the players who works more behind the scenes.
The way he is playing coy and innocent is also kind of strange to me. He seems to be trying to pull off indifference to hope that someone saves him/mafia saves him and not become aggressive and start accusing to bring more attention/focus to himself.
I think lynching for inactivity is generally an okay idea for Day 1 in normal games that have a bunch of noobs, in games when you deal with harsh inactivity rules and generally "experienced" players chances are you won't see as much "I really don't want to be thought of so I just won't post" mentality and more of the cruising by by saying nothing good/bad mentality.
|
Don't be an idiot Bill, I already said why Anti-nukes are a bad idea. At this point letting caller die is the only way to do this. If he actually lives it would confirm him as mafia, since the general town consensus would be to let him die.
also
Zona said: I'm glad you're posting more than fluff now that you're in the hot spot.
I am already dead and have been for pages. I am just posting my thoughts. Once I hit 12 votes I was dead, there is no defense for me now, I am lynched. Unless somehow nukes change voting rules in which case I might still be dead.
|
Regardless of how the game is thought of, the fact is the least influential role in a game of mafia is a townie, hence if you had to add another role that would effect the game in the smallest way possible it would be a townie.
There is no way around that and without my nuke none of this conversation would have been happening. I would of been dead ~2 hours ago. I honestly can't believe you were the one jumping down my throat for being a retard.
|
I really hope my Caller nuke goes through for so many reasons right now.
|
Holy shit, are you that dense Zona? You just completely ignored what I said, or at the very least misinterpreted it entirely. I understand that an active green/townie population plays a strong role in the town, its why regardless of my role I never shut the fuck up. I was saying from a BALANCE PERSPECTIVE which is WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. A townie has the least impact on balance in the game as opposed to say adding me in as lets say in normal game terms a Vigi which increases town KP, another Mafia, another godfather which rape the town (I am purposely going to extremes here) or lets say adding an entire third role on the spur of the moment giving me an entire different agenda without having thought it through entirely which would either make my objective impossible or too easy which would essentially ruin the game.
Or a townie, who kind of just adds one to the town and overall looking at the ROLE itself not the people playing it is much LESS influential on the outcome of the game.
This has nothing to do at all with "Me thinking greens are worthless" but to say they are of equal importance to a medic would be foolish.
|
On March 25 2010 14:16 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 14:01 Bill Murray wrote:
People can't unvote while the nuke is in the air? You can. The nuke just delays everything so you can literally do whatever you want as if the day was still going on.
Since I already went over 12 votes, if they were to switch would I still live even though the minimum vote count has been reached anyway?
|
Zona the answer to that is obvious.
Also that is like saying "HOLY SHIT ROL KILLED CALLER, THAT MUST MEAN HE IS MAFIA"
"...Or vigilante?"
From the sounds of this game most countries have nuking powers, I also never said whether or not my nuke was real or fake, nor my country, or my alignment.
I also don't plan on saying any of those. I guess you could argue since I was a late entry I would NOT get a role with ANY power what so ever, and in most cases I would agree with you. However I do not think any of us have played a mafia game that is quite like this. Perhaps most/all countries have powers and I got a particularly underpowered one. Who knows? From what you say you are under the impression that you are either A. A weak country who doesn't think I SHOULD have more power than he does (assuming my nuke is legitimate) or B. A mafia who has a fair amount of powers and is assuming most other roles are not as powerful as you initially anticipated.
I am inclined to the latter.
|
I don't believe that in this game a "pure vanilla" townie exists. Each one is most likely going to have some odd variation in powers. And congrats, you can read what I said. I could be lying I could be telling the truth.
Out of respect for the host I am not going to say my role, my power, or whether or not my nuke is real.
|
Caller and Zona, but it could be Zona just because I don't like him. I honestly haven't been reading much of other peoples posts and probably should reread some shit, but I am too tired right now.
I think right now most people are just asleep though and its not just the mafia letting two "townies" fight to the death.
|
I know Ace, but that shit always annoys me. Role claiming is gay and gets in the way, people are going to believe what they are going to believe and my role claim would just confuse them more.
On March 25 2010 14:59 meeple wrote:
Jeesus... yeah sorry for the long away time guys, but I was learning mandarin and sleeping for the past long while.
So... I guess for now we assume Abenson and OpZ are town-aligned masons. It would take massive mafia cajones to pull it off otherwise.
I've said before that I don't agree usually with lynching most inactive, I mean it tells us nothing about the person or possible ties.
I don't know why Zona was so pushy for it, since there are obviously some better targets when we consider that we have two basically confirmed townies and a better choice would be to sift through the votes for Abenson(yes I know I'm on that list...) and see who tried to push the bandwagon.
Having said that I'm rather glad that RoL launched the nuke... since it gives us a little more time to consider what the hell just went on here. There's no reason to lynch him for "being dumb" or not reading the rules to their fullest extent. It's kinda a weird game, and not really that similar to traditional mafia so of course there will be miscommunications.
Zona, I dunno why you're pushing so hard still for RoL when he seems in the grave for sure, but neither of the reasons that were given to lynch him are really all that valid. Hell, if anything his slip-up gave us a rare look into real motivations... where he's seeking to prove his innocence by his own demise and perhaps take out a red with his last breath.
I fully expect RoL to turn up green... However, I'm not totally against him being lynched, seeing as he did violate the "Nuking without town consent" policy.
I'll follow this up with some more analysis soon.
Just to respond to you, I never agreed to that policy. It seemed really retarded. The town will never be on a 100% consensus for a lynch, let alone a nuke that [could] lose us the game. It seemed like a real bullshit cop out to me. and no lynching period was even dumber. Its a power we should utilize.
Seriously? Who the fuck ever expects even 55% of the town to agree on nuking a single person?
|
Opz when was I rude to you? Sorry if I was :D I don't even remember. The lynch on me was messed up, within 2-3 pages I had around 8 votes and there was no actual evidence besides Zona saying "yo hes inactive, get'em dawgz" which was a big wtf? Yeah, maybe I could of played it better. However I like the way this is turning out so far. It makes me feel as though Zona is full of shit and I hope at the end of this some perspective is gained.
|
Just to remention this again in a separate post. I think most of the thoughts towards nuking were ill conceived. A town consensus on nuking would never be reached, and not using our nukes for more than one day would be dumb. Although I like how this is turning out so far even if i die.
|
On March 25 2010 15:31 Zona wrote:I can't sleep, so I'm still here. Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 15:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Seriously? Who the fuck ever expects even 55% of the town to agree on nuking a single person? You do realize if we never reach >50% consensus on lynching, we'll never get to lynch? So the policy on nuking is identical to the mechanics of lynching. The policy is there to use nukes as extra lynches when the town is desperate and feels it might be on the verge of defeat. Using nukes otherwise brings us towards the situation where no one wins (except for my guess on a third party which wins when radiation is too high).
must...control...rage....
Lynching is not the same as nuking and the dynamic is different as YOU just ADMITTED in your followup where you changed your mind from retaliation nukes to lynching the nuker. The damage caused by the nukes makes it harder to get a consensus compared a lynch where the only risk is killing an innocent as opposed to raising radiation and killing a innocent as POTENTIAL risks. Meaning I don't see how you expect to get EVEN 55% of the town to agree on something more controversial than a lynch. The suggestion for nuking seemed like a large majority not just 55% to be okay with it, meaning you want ideally like 75% good with the lynch.
Anyway if you also act stingy with nukes you allow the Mafia to be more liberal with them later on, since there is no radiation threat yet.
I say he who casts the first nuke, rapes the most ass.
|
Alright to summarize my thoughts on nuking since I was asked again.
The current policy is DON'T NUKE unless a large majority of the town agrees that it is in the best interest of the town.
The reasons this is dumb goes as follows. It would be a pain in the ass to get a good majority for nuking with the mafia covertly arguing against it IF it doesn't benefit them. I also think we need to use nukes so the mafia can't fully utilize them later. No nuking period was also pretty stupid. It is a power we should utilize and should really avoid the mafia manipulating us into nuking the wrong people. We as the town should take the initiative with our nukes and get shit done.
Being a pacifist little bitch has never won a war and it's not going to work here. I was ganged up on out of no where and this is how I responded. Maybe I would of went along with this shit and tried to understand the game more, but we are past that. We are here, where a nuke is flying at Callers face and Zona is acting the part of a fool. We are creating a fuckton of content right now for later on in the game when more shit is revealed.
I said before, I think we have to refuse to save Caller to get an idea of his alignment. The mafia can quietly save him since you PM anti missile shit and he can claim it was an actual townie and bullshit us that way, but if we agree that Caller must die then Caller has no excuse to make for him being alive after the fact. We can get a LOT of information out of this. Its a matter of how we play it from here on out.
Kill me, or don't kill me. It is irrelevant at this point to be honest. You can think I am full of shit, you can think what you want. But tell me one thing I did that was suspicious besides not post too much for around a day because I had school, or was it me launching a nuke and disagreeing with the towns retarded anti-nuke policy.
If this was real life then yeah maybe we shouldn't nuke the shit out of people because of the bad light it would put our respective countries in, however its mafia, where nukes kill people and our goal is to rain death. To not use our nuking powers and test the limits of ToD would be stupid. We would essentially be waiting for the mafia to just use it, or for them to manipulate us into thinking we are using it.
I don't see why we should wait that long, maybe waiting more than a single day would be good, but I decided to just nuke the shit out of some people.
|
On March 25 2010 15:58 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 15:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Lynching is not the same as nuking and the dynamic is different as YOU just ADMITTED in your followup where you changed your mind from retaliation nukes to lynching the nuker. The damage caused by the nukes makes it harder to get a consensus compared a lynch where the only risk is killing an innocent as opposed to raising radiation and killing a innocent as POTENTIAL risks. Meaning I don't see how you expect to get EVEN 55% of the town to agree on something more controversial than a lynch. Wait, the consequences of nuking are GREATER than lynching, so we should LOWER THE BAR on how easily they can be used? It's precisely because the consequences of nuking at greater than lynching we also demand that the town agrees before they are used.
I disagree.
On March 25 2010 15:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The suggestion for nuking seemed like a large majority not just 55% to be okay with it, meaning you want ideally like 75% good with the lynch.
Now you're just putting words in my mouth. In no post at all have I mentioned 75%, three quarters, or anything along those lines.
It was implied.
On March 25 2010 15:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Anyway if you also act stingy with nukes you allow the Mafia to be more liberal with them later on, since there is no radiation threat yet.
Part of the policy is to reserve anti-nukes precisely to deal with the threat of late game mafia nukes. But just because some other team can bring us to the radiation threshold doesn't mean we ourselves should approach it first.
Whoever reaches the threshold first has successfully increased their overall KP.
Whats the problem here?
|
You agreed to restriction of using nukes, which in itself in implies a larger consensus then a simple 50%. This implies a larger number, 75% was an estimate. I am sure it could be lower or whatever your arbitrary standards will decide to set forth.
I believe I am constructively using the town KP for if nothing else information.
|
Also goodnight all. I'm off to bed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
