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On February 14 2010 12:06 Ace wrote:
Ok L, try using that the "40% of people are Mafia argument". It doesn't help. Blindly pointing fingers in the chance you may nab someone is just as bad if it were a game where 20% of the people are Mafia. Stop it. You're wrong.
So you don't agree that the clue seems to point to you? Because it's fairly suggestive...
Having said that, I don't think the increased mafia will mean that the clues are nerfed, and thus we should rely on them more.
What's your suggestion Ace? Who are your suspects?
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so x = mafia 1
y = mafia 2
z = town
z is trying to kill x + y
X is trying to kill y + z
y is trying to kill x + z
Isn't it something more like this?
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On February 14 2010 12:21 Abenson wrote:
But the mafia should be spending their kill points on mafia instead of z o.o
Right I see it now... misunderstood
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On February 14 2010 12:20 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:18 L wrote:
Well the fact that you didn't bother disputing the credibility of the clues when you're 100% certain that they don't point to you is interesting.
If the clue set regarding the moonlight horseman doesn't apply to you, then who does it point to? Instead of analyse what appear to be a substantive set of clues, you've ignored them and provided the town with no content. There was a picture in someone's profile with a moon, a woman, and fire. I was posted earlier. Plus shadows and darkness was in Day 1 post of last game.
The picture you're thinking about is in Mystlord's profile...
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On February 14 2010 12:28 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:24 meeple wrote:On February 14 2010 12:20 Chezinu wrote:On February 14 2010 12:18 L wrote:
Well the fact that you didn't bother disputing the credibility of the clues when you're 100% certain that they don't point to you is interesting.
If the clue set regarding the moonlight horseman doesn't apply to you, then who does it point to? Instead of analyse what appear to be a substantive set of clues, you've ignored them and provided the town with no content. There was a picture in someone's profile with a moon, a woman, and fire. I was posted earlier. Plus shadows and darkness was in Day 1 post of last game. The picture you're thinking about is in Mystlord's profile... So it looks like Mystlord could have jumped of the roof and rip incog's head off...or the moon thing...or the arson... Or Ace could have done the same but instead of the arson replace it with blinding... I'm too selfish right now to pick sides between L and Ace.. I wait to see who wins! hehe
Its probably not about winning... they're just debating
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On February 14 2010 12:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Clues aren't going to be that useful until later in the game imo
but they shouldn't be ignored completely
Yeah... I'm not sure I would lynch just based on that, but they're there to help us
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When I say inactive... I mean like hasn't posted anything after a day... not someone who doesn't post like crazy in the 2 hours after the game starts.
So I wouldn't say Caller, or too many other people are inactive unless you see them posting in other parts of the forum and ignoring this thread completely.
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On February 14 2010 12:35 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:17 Abenson wrote:
L v Ace...
Flame war between vets o.o Is this a DEJA VU¿ Now centering on the important matters: So far there is just no plan on the table. I mean literally all the candidates for office are just proposing themselves. So im inclined to think l10f is actually a good man to be on the office. First of all he claimed blue. Second reason is more a personal choice but im just too bored to see the same guys always there: Ver, BC, Ace... we need some new blood, with the added benefit that he is more likely to misstep if he plays red. For the first lynch play i really oppose the general feeling that we should lynch an inactive. Im all in to kill a big name. Three that come inmediatly into my mind are: Caller. Half inactive up to now. Posted defending BC out of nowhere. L: Wanted to change his profile. Not really doing what he does in all games to benefit the town. BC: Already spotted by ver. In fact if you think about it most of the time we lynched an inactive first day we got a town side player. Just lynch someone in the big names.
I'm pretty sure that the BC connection was fairly weak too...
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On February 14 2010 12:47 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:44 Ace wrote:On February 14 2010 12:40 Fulgrim wrote:On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Ace you really need to give people more incentive if you expect them to vote for you. You should try and post something with more substance, then just "I'M ACE VOTE FOR ME". Some healthy mafia accusations never hurt anyone, I agree that clues aren't the most helpful early game as you can easily screw up, but its not any worse then just lynching a random player. my incentive is there. I'm already the shining beacon of innocence I always am. If I tried to do anything radically different from normal I'd be labeled as Mafia and gg'd. Ace, if you should have acting radical like me every game so that you can do whatever you want...but then it makes getting a mayor role really hard.. If only people could see pass my image and vote for me..I f only people could see pass the image in my profile and see it's true meaning...
Please stop begging for votes... try to put forth some constructive ideas
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On February 14 2010 12:51 L wrote:Actually, I figured that a topic related to our current conversation should be addressed; As the town, how do we win given the game format? Show nested quote +Faction win conditions:
The town must eliminate at least 8 members of each family AND must outnumber the surviving mafia.
The Gambino family must eliminate the Sumiyoshi family.
The Sumiyoshi family must eliminate the Gambino family. This post says that 18 mafia need to die for us to win. Compared to us, mafia have 6 times our kp per day/night cycle. If we want to win, are we forced to rely on mafia cross hits? I mean, seriously, given the format, it seems like town's main job is to out mafia with dts/try to soak hits on greens with medics, and just survive the mafia crossrape. If that's the case, shouldn't our main objective be to throw up as much clue information as possible? Unlike typical 1 mafia team games with clues, even if one team is deadset on keeping someone underwraps, its in the interest of someone from the opposing team to out them. So, two questions that I want people to think about: 1) What's our job as town? Survive? Hunt mafia? You tell me. 2) How do we react to information? Even classic things like DT gambits are changed in this game; If someone from a team that's winning wants to delay the town a turn, he can accuse someone of the opposite team and be 'confirmed' as a DT for a day. If he's killed as a claimaint, his team is still ahead, especially if his move lowers his opponent's kp. For 2) I think that information given to the town on the whole will be more 'true' in that there is no single underground group controlling information flow. Anyways, feel free to talk about this, and I still think you're red Ace.
Relying on Mafia crosshits is obviously a big part of the game... although I don't think that we should throw up as much clue information as possible (Since perhaps,you're using the game format to strengthen your theory... )
I think we should hunt mafia... the same thing we normally do. I agree that reacting to information will be a bit more interesting though
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On February 14 2010 12:55 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:49 meeple wrote:On February 14 2010 12:47 Chezinu wrote:On February 14 2010 12:44 Ace wrote:On February 14 2010 12:40 Fulgrim wrote:On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Ace you really need to give people more incentive if you expect them to vote for you. You should try and post something with more substance, then just "I'M ACE VOTE FOR ME". Some healthy mafia accusations never hurt anyone, I agree that clues aren't the most helpful early game as you can easily screw up, but its not any worse then just lynching a random player. my incentive is there. I'm already the shining beacon of innocence I always am. If I tried to do anything radically different from normal I'd be labeled as Mafia and gg'd. Ace, if you should have acting radical like me every game so that you can do whatever you want...but then it makes getting a mayor role really hard.. If only people could see pass my image and vote for me..I f only people could see pass the image in my profile and see it's true meaning... Please stop begging for votes... try to put forth some constructive ideas OK, I shall state the obvious and call it constructive ideas: 1. clues are good to start conversation on day 1 and provide a way to accuse people without really accusing then so that you can perform behavior analysis 2. If you don't want me to read your role, don't reply to my pm's 3. I'm the safest person to elect as mayor. Why? No one trusts me. Think about it. 4. There is no such thing as a "waste post" That is just an excuse to get people to talk, distract, or focus attention. 5. I am insane and don't play like normal player - have fun reading me 6. You don't want to kill me 7. I will not listen to "town" aka mafia when I am mayor 8. I will kill both mafia teams equally? 9. How will I do this -- I won't, It's called a bluff. 10. I have no idea what is considered a "constructive idea" in this game...
1. You're right, I agree
2.Bragging about how good you are?
3. Thought about it... not really that safe
4. There are waste posts... but usually used by mafia to distract the town
5. That makes it worse if you're the mayor... since we'd want to be able to read you
6.Hint about role?
7. Not listening to the town, and going off on your own tangents, especially when no one apprently trusts you isn't all that helpful
8/9
10. Something that adds to the discussion at hand? Or creates new discussion?
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On February 15 2010 02:42 L wrote:
When going to sleep, my recent rereading of the clues made me note that there are probably clues linked to 6+ mafia in the first post, with 2-3 personae being 'hittable' tonight in my current reading. This got me thinking; if we figured out all 6 credible hits, mafia are kinda forced to push their own hits towards town consensus targets.
Upon realizing this, I came to the conclusion that Ver is 100% wrong; Discussing clues doesn't put the town into disarray: it lets town control both their own lynch AND night hits. The net result of persuasive clue targets that the mafia believe are that we BOTH save ourselves AND hunt mafia.
.
That kinda goes on the assumption that the clues are right. I don't think that the mafia would be "forced" to push their own hits like that, since they'll probably make their own decisions, but I do agree that the more good suspects that we have as a town the more likely they'll get hit by the respective mafia, if we make a good enough case for them.
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On February 15 2010 03:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bill Murrays defense hasn't impressed me one bit. I'm not 100% convinced he's mafia, but if he is not this is just terrible play.
Bill Murray, at the very least give reasons as to why you think those people are mafia. Why do you refuse to justify your statements? Do you actually think it's helpful to come in and say "OH BTW THESE DUDES ARE MAFIA AND L IS DA GODFATHER AND BC IS THE OTHER FAMILIES GODFATHER, L8R"
Yeah, I would ask the same. I'm skeptical as to how you came to those conclusions...
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On February 15 2010 06:11 Bill Murray wrote:
if you think i am mafia, you are a fucking idiot.
Yeah man... not really a defense. I don't think you're mafia, but if I did that wouldn't really convince me otherwise
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On February 15 2010 06:39 Bill Murray wrote:
L is arguing like mafia
Ahaha what? That's absurd, you can't just say that people are arguing like mafia without pointing it out.
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I'm not convinced that BM is red... if you saw how he played the last game he was in, he's probably just really bad at playing. I'm still sort of leaning towards Ace, both because of the seeming clue connection and because his defense was ridiculously over the top.
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On February 15 2010 08:51 Bill Murray wrote:i was just making a funny reference to family guy i guess you all don't watch that show  DH, you want me to list why i posted the people i posted?
Yes please... as a general rule its good to back up your statements.
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On February 15 2010 08:58 Bill Murray wrote:
Chezinu - voting history, erratic behavior, seems to know more than a normal townie should
redtooth - blindly supports L, take it back, supports him again, backlashes for my lynching
laaan - voting for L, being too lazy to do anything to help the town,
zato-1 - wanting to get rid of ace for no apparent reason
bloodycobbler - as per previous analysis regarding posting behavior
ver - was probably a mistake, but because he ROLECLAIMEDto me in PM
L - wanting to get rid of ace for no apparent reason
Mystlord - seems to be acting the same way from last game
i'd like to eliminate fulgrim from this list.
also, what's citi.zen been doing? he's been a lot less inactive than last game. i wouldn't be too worried about this if he didn't have so many votes.
Chez - erratic behavior doesn't always lead to red, and can give an example of when he seems to know more than he should?
laaan - being too lazy to help the town doesn't mean he's red... since that would mean there are like 25 red inactives sitting in the bleachers.
Zato-1 - has stated that he thinks the clues point to Ace... so there is an apparent reason
BC - Not sure why people keep coming to this... he very well might be red, but I don't think there's a correlation between his candidacy posts and him being red, for me it seems like a forced connection.
Ver - Roleclaiming is really odd, but he might be messing with you, unless he explains why he trusts you.
L - same with the other guy... its clear they're both basing their accusations on clues
Mystlord - Not really enough to say for sure, but in addition to his profile pic that could be linked to the arsonist and moon references it might be slightly more suspicious than your average joe.
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On February 15 2010 09:01 L wrote:
Additional note; If i end up being correct on three mafia on the first day there will be much self-aggrandization after the game ends.
Lol... there always is...
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EPT
