EPTTL Mafia XV
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Incognito
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On October 16 2009 05:38 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Even the insane and paranoid trust the government! What kind of crazy mafia infested world is this =P Anarchy for the win. | ||
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On October 21 2009 13:16 Tricode wrote: ^That isn't really useful or productive. Though since we have nothing to really go on (no clues) it's hard to just chat it up involving the game. Problem: How do we find mafia? What should be our first step? A. We are forced to be active by votes, but don't have to say anything. Since we don't have to really defend ourselves. We can go accusing each other and see who acts sorta fishy. But how many of us are actually good at that? We should be lynching with as much accuracy as we can. - Also Mafia can just be quiet or just chat it up cause they have little to worry about except for DT's who eventually can figure them out. Except for the ones who get toyed with especially if they guess wrong. Solution??  I think Mafia might be kinda silent this round so we should probably get rid of the quiet people)Who ever is good with behavior analysis might be really helpful, though we should watch that person carefully as well. Well I did mention an idea that nobody has responded to. Have you not an opinion about it? | ||
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On October 21 2009 13:26 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Incog why did you think your DT plan was bad? Is it just that it will be too early for DTs to guess after checking one result against the death? Previously I thought that you would find out if your guess is right or not, but that is false. So there is no reason to guess right away. However, DT lists... | ||
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On October 21 2009 13:33 L wrote: So, besides caller, none of the players running for mayorship are even remotely decent at this game. Seems legit. I vote that we vote for a vacancy. Mayors always cause for chaos. | ||
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On October 21 2009 13:34 Tricode wrote: Incognito can you re clarify your plan for me. I didn't quiet grasp what your plan is. I gave you the link. What more do you need to know? Are you not familiar with the medic list idea from previous games? | ||
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On October 21 2009 13:40 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: ![[image loading]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2393/2281883234_f04bdcbc2c.jpg) Reasons to vote for me: 1. I won't lynch BC day one for no logical reason (already puts me above RebirthofLegend and Tricode). 2. I'm a Khan fan. Cheer me up with a sign of support before I have to go on suicide watch. Look at my picture up there. I'm about to drown my sorrows with either way too much absinthe or a shotgun unless my toss-playing bird bud kicks in into gear or you show me some lovin'. 3. I've got skillz; check my sig. winningstreak++ incoming. 4. ...ooʇ 'uʍop ǝpısdn ǝʇıɹʍ uɐɔ ı Plans: We choose the Day 2 Lynch on Day 1 (we can vote in this thread). The DTs will check that person Night 1 and get information from their death. I don't think the DTs should guess right after that (the flaw that Incognito found in his plan, I think), but it will narrow things down quite a bit for them. I don't think Qatol/Ver should have a problem with this. Day 1 Lynch will be the most inactive person. I feel this is necessary given the lack of clues. If everyone has posted, the most inactive person has to involve looking at quality of posts, not just number, because we don't want to reward spamming. As for the Medic/DT check list, I think they will naturally come together. The Medic list covers the players that would otherwise die soon if innocent (a.k.a. "good" players), who are also people the DTs are likely to check. At this point I'd say a list of 4 would be the best balance between too small and too large for a list. I'd name: Pyrrhuloxia (lol  Modesty)L Ace BloodyC0bbler I'm not sure if its a good idea to combine the medic and DT lists. The whole premise of DTs this game is that they're weak in the beginning of the game, and that more dead RCed people is good (as long as the DT checked two different colors). So making a separate DT list would allow us to keep more people alive. | ||
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On October 21 2009 13:50 Tricode wrote: I have read what you said and I think I just got what you meant (I just forgot for a moment the medic list idea) Also it confuses me cause (with no disrespect) I find the plan very flawed. I don't really think this plan will help us. 1.We don't know how many DT's there are. 2.Also there is 6 different choices for the DTs to pick from. So it looks like either case we might just get hurt. 3. If DT still guesses wrong, the DT is screwed and possibly useless to us as far as DT's can go. 4. We lose a DT! It just doesn't seem worth the risk as far as mathematics probabilities goes. What why do we need to know how many DTs there are? Maybe you are looking at the old plan? There is no guessing. There is no DT loss. wtf are you talking about? | ||
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On October 21 2009 13:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Well, if we are using the DT list to keep good people alive, then DTs can check the medic list. If we want DTs to check people who are about to die, then DTs should just check suspicious people who are on the chopping block to die soon. They can probably figure that out without a list just by following our town discussion. It seems to me that a DT list is either a medic list or a suspect list. Essentially, it seems slightly contradictory to use DTs to keep people alive while saying DTs are supposed to check dead people. Granted, the medic list contains people who the mafia want dead (and I'd guess at least one mafia). Well the point is to use DTs LIKE the medics in the medic lists. Its good to have DTs check people who will die, but we can also use them to deter mafia hits. Because they WONT want to hit people who will get RCed. I guess the tradeoff is do we have people we want to protect vs. do we want to make DTs as useful as possible and as fast as possible. There are multiple suspicious people who could be on the chopping block soon. Plus the way the game evolves we almost always change suspects after night happens/we have more information. So perhaps RCing the people who might attract attention for the mafia might be better than RCing people who might attract angst from the town. | ||
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On October 21 2009 14:03 Tricode wrote: Ok, if I think I got the idea of you want to do Incognito. Can't excuse myself from this stupidity of mine (but if it helps my case, I had a midterm today and studying for Spanish test tomorrow.) So basically the Dt's should use our lynch list and try to see what they got for their RC for them. To figure out their sanity. Sorry once again for my brain fart. Your suggestion seems sound. Though that means until DT's can get it together (figure out their sanity) we need to try to do our best to attempt to pick best choice lynches. Correct? Not really. Trying to get DTs to check dying people is good, yes. But I was suggesting using DTs as a deterrent from mafia killing some people we want alive. | ||
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On October 21 2009 14:25 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I'm not sure if that's the better approach. Given the permutations, it should take a DT 2 RC's and according deaths to have Also, with 21 players, we definitely don't have more than 2 DTs. Do we know if all blue roles listed are actually present? (like in the speed game more blue roles were in the rules post than actually in the game) I wouldn't entirely rule out multiple DTs. Given how weak they are early game and given how Ver said they wanted to give the town power but give the mafia options for misdirection (BGs) I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "power" was later game information gathering power. Could be wrong though. But the DT numbers are pretty irrelevant at this point. Im going to assume that there could be none of a role, but I'm not certain. | ||
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On October 22 2009 06:31 Vivi57 wrote: but a mafia vet does so much more damage. Without them, the mafia organization falls apart so much more than the town If we can pick off a mafia vet right away, the town will have a ridiculous advantage Foolishness is right, one vet atleast is mafia for sure. That gives us atleast a 20-25% chance on the first lynch, which is good, unless something amazing happens between then and now. Wanna take a guess at what our % chance for a red lynch is if we DONT hit a vet? Tada! Its also 20%! On October 22 2009 06:43 redtooth wrote: you're mighty quick to anger my friend. do you guys (tricode and L) have a history of animosity? L is abrasive but you got defensive REAL quick, even for one of L's elitist posts. BUT WAIT. are you really angry? really? Well yes he does have a history of getting a bit defensive. Dont think its a sure tell. However it sounds plausible. But I do think it does fit his character somewhat. On October 22 2009 06:49 redtooth wrote: killing off a vet right now is stupid. as this is an invite game, the players are all decently experienced and any combination would form a competent mafia team (although tricode is starting to make me doubt). obviously there are the "better" players even within this group but killing them off risks losing their skills as useful townies. besides, we all have suspicions of them [Ace, BC, L] every game and if they don't start producing results or start acting in a manner detrimental to the town then at that point we can kill them off. Faulty assumption. Its what screwed us the first "vet" game. On October 22 2009 06:47 Amber[LighT] wrote: Knowing the people that play/set up these games after playing about 7 mafia games they probably randomly assigned roles. It's a terrible idea to assume all the vets get the mafia roles. More than typically there is a pretty even split, and more or less the veterans get the townie-aligned roles. How do you gauge who's a "veteran" anyway? Whoever the mods think are the good players. But generally they'd probably be the same players who always get mentioned. On October 22 2009 06:58 Foolishness wrote: No. And I never said all the vets get the mafia roles I said one of them is guarenteed to be mafia. In the smurf game, the only "vet" on the mafia was BC. Ver and Qatol were absolutely furious when they found out about this after the game was over. This isn't real life mafia where roles are randomly assigned. Ver and Qatol would rather die than host a mafia game with randomly assigned roles. As previously stated, if we were able to kill the mafia veteran the whole mafia team would probably fall apart without that vet. I am not saying we should spend the next 3 days killing off all the vets, I am just saying we should do it now until the other DT plans are able to kick in. Ok wtf seriously I'm hearing all this hate going around among the "vet" players. Although it is to a certain extent natural, it serves no useful purpose here or now. Especially when the two vets mentioned arent even playing the game. Besides the ratio of "vet" players to total players is about the same as mafia to total players, so this tells us nothing. On October 22 2009 07:01 dreamflower wrote: As for the Mayor elections, I'm also surprised that none of the candidates except Rebirthoflegend have discussed the fact that Mafia can now infiltrate their own members as bodyguards. Considering the bodyguards and Mayor will know each other this game, it's likely they'll at least be in contact with each other and even form a circle. In that case, we'd want to elect a Mayor who can best demonstrate that they're town-aligned and good at reading people, because they're more likely than most to be in close proximity with Mafia members. Bad idea. You cannot assume the bodyguards will make a circle with the mayor because its just not reliable. If this circle does happen, NOBODY should trust it. I think we dont need to really talk about mafia bgs, just be aware of the possibility and ignore them in terms of power circles. On October 22 2009 07:21 dreamflower wrote: How so? The point of continuing to run these games of Mafia is to have people learn how to play better, and plenty of people do get better and better as they understand the rules and learn to distinguish behavior better. Qatol told me he was "absolutely horrible" in his first game, and now he's considered one of the best players here. Unless you mean players who are labeled "bad" will always be labeled "bad," in which case I totally agree. It's hard to get rid of a label like that, unless you play spectacularly well in a game or consistently well in multiple games. Especially if a well-known player like Ace or L attaches the "bad player" label to you. ...bad is only a label. Ace labels a lot of people bad, but some other vets dont have such large lists. Plus there aren't only "bad" players and "good" players. There's also in between. And of course good players can play poorly. Which is why it is absurd to assume that this game will be of any higher quality than the other non-invite games. So everyone should play logically at their best and not assume that this will be a high quality game. We'll take whatever content-useful posts that you've got. On October 22 2009 09:10 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: this is true in the smurf game some people who are generally considered "not good" played rather well. Generally when there is no sheepherder or no time for the sheepherder to push the sheep over the cliff, the sheep play rather well. Like the mini mafia game. Need to go now but I'll be back later for some clarifications about DT lists, as there appears to be some confusion. | ||
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Some people are suggesting a single DT medic list. This way, the DTs could check the prime players while at the same time the Medics deterred hits on them. The DTs would also deter the hits somewhat because dead RCed people = more info for town, as I've said. However, the point of the original medic list was that the people on the list would be under heavy scrutiny and that DT checks on them would be wasteful in the long run (correct me if I'm wrong?). Which leads us to the two separate lists idea. We could cover more people since the mafia would not want to hit either the medic list or the potentially RCed people list. For this list though, we would rotate the people on the list to cover more people. Perhaps beginning with a 2-3 person list and replacing one member with a new player every day. This way, the mafia don't know if the person who was removed from the list was checked the night before, giving us a growing list of dangerous players to hit. Obviously the mafia would eventually either have to hit the potentially RCed players or the DTs if they get lucky/can blue snipe. But I think that overall this increases our early game chances for both survival and organization, both of which are key. Thoughts? | ||
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On October 22 2009 11:42 Foolishness wrote: I don't know why there is a seeming consensus to lynch Tricode here. He's clearly not mafia, and probably some important role. Does it make sense that the mafia got on an irc channel and said, "alright here's the plan, Tricode is going to go in there and get elected and draw lots of attention to himself"? Hell no it doesn't. The one thing I learned from being mafia is that hardly anyone does anything as mafia. The mafia strategy is always just sit back and hope things work out. There have been seldom games where the mafia actually were involved in the town affairs. even if he has an important role he always plays like this. Can't really make any assumptions here. On the bright side, if he were blue, DTs would know blues when they find them, although not which blue it is (unless they're sane/whatever the other one is). Also I think we can safely assume that greens > blues so there would be a higher chance of DTs getting their other colored RC. If they don't get another color, at least they find a blue. Win win. On October 22 2009 11:46 Foolishness wrote: The point of the matter, as had been previously said, is that mafia without their vet leader equals gg mafia. The town without their leader doesn't mean anything. There have been games where some non vet took control of the town (heck even I did it). The mafia needs the vet players not the town. I find it odd that Pyrry has not been around at all this game. Usually he's good at helping the town, but I guess without clues he's about as useless as Aquaman. Takes way too long to pinpoint your prized mafia vet. By that time, mafia's all up and organized and most if not all of your good town players are dead. I doubt a mafia is going to act completely irrationally even after the leader set their game plan up. Look at Ver in BCs (first game?) where he died day 1 (2?) but destroyed the town's blues. The game is about finding reds, not finding a single red. Because in the mean time you disregard all other reds in search for your red vet. Bad. | ||
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On October 22 2009 12:08 Foolishness wrote: That's fine and all and I'm not saying my plan is perfect. But honestly what else are we going to do now? As L said, nearly all the mayor candidates are mia and all we got now is a plan so DT's can figure out their situation. Tricode is obviously not red and wanting to lynch him based off of his not contributing attitude or whatever is hardly a justification at all. At the very least you could pick an inactive to lynch. Non posting towny is approximately equal to garbage spewing townie, which is one argument. But it could go either way. | ||
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On October 22 2009 12:48 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: If there is a vet there may be no medic to prot him. What would that do to the plan? I highly doubt there would be no medics. That would be imba considering DTs are already weak. | ||
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On October 23 2009 09:42 L wrote: I really don't want a shitty player protected by pardoner, so if people aren't going to vote for me, vote for ace. Sugidori midori or whatever's rational is fucking terrible. Well there is merit in attempting to deny the mafia that position even if it does not lead to the ideal person being protected by the BGs. Anyway, I think we should come up with some medic/DT lists. Assuming Pyrr/Tricode get office, we should probably split up the Medic/DT lists with 2/3 people. If we have two medics, 3 would be nice, but since we dont know the Medic numbers maybe we should just have 3 anyway. Thoughts on the player composition of the lists? | ||
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Yes in fact I am pardoning. Can you please make Judge and Vivi my bodyguards? | ||
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On October 23 2009 11:45 Qatol wrote: Sorry. Priests and Elders can't be bodyguards. Why not? Don't trust the pedophiles or old people to guard us? | ||
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On October 23 2009 11:56 Qatol wrote: Would you? It seems like they would be a tad unreliable in the face of an attack, no? A bodyguard is a bodyguard. A pedophile or old person could fill a casket just as well as any other body. Besides if I really needed to I could use the elder as a mace. | ||
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On October 23 2009 12:46 Qatol wrote: Nope you aren't too late at all. Pyrr still hasn't told us who he was lynching. Also, we STILL haven't heard from the mafia....... Maybe something you don't want to say? | ||
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On October 23 2009 12:47 Ace wrote: maybe they are planing their BG infiltration. Doesn't matter to me as the rapefest is going to start when Night 2 hits anyway Which rapefest? The mafia rapefest ? :D | ||
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Well I dont think it should be said regardless. | ||
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On October 23 2009 13:14 L wrote: I'm now glad I voted for Ace. I dont see it. | ||
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On October 23 2009 13:53 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: lol, so HeavOnEarth is banned for 2 weeks. I guess a pardon could benefit us - we avoid a mislynch, but I dunno. I think we could still find a good lynch candidate. Incognito - why do you NOT want to lynch motbob? Why waste the pardon right now? Lol srsly? Im not the pardoner k. So if HeavOnEarth is banned why dont we just flip him now? Since we are going to pardon anyway. | ||
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On October 23 2009 13:50 Ace wrote: Ok I just had a post but I'll wait a bit before unveiling it. However I have one thing to ask: Medics protect myself and Pyrr tonight. Hold on I know you think I'm crazy. But there is a reason and HOPEFULLY I'm misreading the rules. There are 2 BGs according the OP. Mafia can sub in their members for BGs. If they subbed in 2 members tonight both myself and Pyrr would be at risk of dying immediately. Pyrr can't trust me right now so he has no incentive to give me their names and I also can't confirm anything about him. The only way to avoid the death of both of us with 0 trace is for the Medics to prot us for the first night so if the Mafia do sub in BGs they are boned and I can continue with my plan. You're not misreading the rules. | ||
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On October 23 2009 14:03 L wrote: The alternative is that pyrr can tell, or threaten to tell someone. If mafia go balls deep, they lose half their members and the game. in the event that pyrr tells a mafia member who the bgs are, when they die early, he can just tell us who he told and we have a kill right there. Frankly, i'd rather not die on day 1-2 again, so i'm going to have to push the plan wherein i might get some sweet nursings instead of the one where my death clue involves impotence. What if he tells a mafia member and both BGs are mafia? | ||
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On October 23 2009 14:35 Ace wrote: this too. Ah well this little BG replacement rule has kept me interested in the game so I guess it's a good thing. Well what BC said is correct, He would have to announce who he gave the BG names to publically. That way if you both die we get two mafia BGs if the person he announced was innocent. If the person he passed the list to was mafia, then we only get one mafia, but its a mafia none the less. If Pyrr is mafia then if you die then Pyrr is mafia and so are the BGs. If Pyrr gave the list to a townie then thats 3 mafia gone, if he told an inno and LIED about it then thats one gone (pyrr) and if he told a fellow mafia member then thats 2 gone (pyrr + person with the list). | ||
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On October 23 2009 14:54 Ver wrote: I'll be going to bed shortly, so I'm guessing the night will have to be delayed until I wake up. Just to confirm, Ace you will pardon anyone Pyrr selects as his lynch choice? Imo Ace shouldn't pardon HeavOnEarth if he's selected since he's banned. Would be useless to keep him around. | ||
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On October 23 2009 15:05 Ace wrote: I was covering the fact that he could be framed if I happened to die and he didn't. Thats a clusterfuck no one wants to deal with. Even if both his BGs were Mafia and I died that doesn't automatically make him guilty. No because if he was innocent he'd just reveal the BG names and bang two dead. | ||
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In addition, proving your "alignment" doesn't prove that you're a DT, as Pyrr pointed out. Using the "not enough evidence to kill XX" is a defense you used last game as mafia. Doesn't really say anything about your role. In this game, town gets 1 KP for every 2 mafia KP. This actually means that towns KP isn't as critical as in previous games, where town would get 1 lynch per 4-5 mafia KP. This is a huge difference. Which means that we can afford not to lynch people. However, we need information. And it won't come unless people die. | ||
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No Brown ??? | ||
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On October 26 2009 14:40 Chezinu wrote: They may not include brown but we know it exists! For blue has two enemies! Red and Green - wiki doesn't lie...right? So let us join forces! Lol how ironic. | ||
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L SugiuraMidori Please protect someone on this list tonight. There may not be any more DTs left but if so Vivi might be a good check. Now back to my two essays... | ||
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Moving on, I agree on Vivi and Scamp as potential suspects. Redtooth maybe, and maybe BC? Not much to go on but like almost all the vets here, non-productive. Also Why am I the only non colored person on that list?  | ||
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