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[EU LCS] S4 Spring Week 3 - Page 35

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AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-31 17:12:01
January 31 2014 17:11 GMT
#681
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
orzeu
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland5205 Posts
January 31 2014 17:15 GMT
#682
Jwaow is good on carry top laners, he would suck with Alliance line up. Also his laning phase is not that good.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-31 17:22:50
January 31 2014 17:21 GMT
#683
On February 01 2014 02:15 orzeu wrote:
Jwaow is good on carry top laners, he would suck with Alliance line up. Also his laning phase is not that good.

Ye to be fair to say naruterador camped him would be an understatement to how much help naruterador gave him on TCM. Granted once naruterador gets him rolling he pretty much always solo carrying but it's still an unnecessary risk and was more of a product of necessity on TCM (Motroco is one of those utility only ADCs and belgianbeast, carrying? Rofl). Options after jwaow fall off anyway, if alliance couldn't get freeze zorozero is out of the question. Neegodbro/mozilla/myw would probably be downgrades. Odoamne and yamatocannon might be potential candidates but it'd probably be a massive risk to replace wickd with either of them.
This is not accounting synergy and from what I've heard neither odoamne nor yamatocannon are exactly the most well behaved top laners out there.
Glorious SEA doto
Flicky
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
England2675 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-31 17:24:50
January 31 2014 17:22 GMT
#684
On February 01 2014 01:14 UdderChaos wrote:
Is it just me or are alliance really bad. Froggen we know can play, and is just on crapy form. But I swear, other than maybe tabz (haven't seen much from him, seems to do ok) and obviously froggen, their team is dogshite. Wickd seems over-rated and then there's the other two. Shook and nyph just look awful. They seem as if forggen just picked two random diamond 2 players. Sure they are good at lol compared to most but they really don't look professional standard. I don't get how players of that standard are being paid to play. Nyph's thresh play in particular is just so meh. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sat like 0 hooks landed after laning phase all lcs (ok maybe the odd one on Leona but that doesn't really count). Where did Froggen find these players? And he really needs a shot caller and team leader.


I'm of the opinion that there's some kind of deeper problem to Alliance's play and all I can pin it to is Froggen/Wickd's idea of how the game should be played. A lot of us assumed that EG's playstyle was courtesy of the other three players, but it's clearly linked to Froggen/Wickd now.

If you watch Nyph's play from the reformed SK, he was initiating, play making and leading his team. Now he's super passive with Tabbz.
When Tabbz was on LD, he was more aggressive and more focused on dueling. Now he's super passive.
Shook (who I've still never seen him perform) was famous for being a super aggressive and deadly jungler.

The way these three are being utilised doesn't match their levels at all and I can only pin it down to the fact that neither Froggen nor Wickd are team-leaders and haven't got a clue about how to play League right now. As far as skill levels go, the team should be ok, it's just their archaic leadership that's not allowing them to flourish.

Wickd and Froggen are stuck so far in Season 2 that it's not even funny any more. Replace Wickd with some hot, fresh top laner (whoever plays the meta) and give the leadership role to Nyph (who has shown that he can lead SK Gaming) and just copy the Koreans. Simple, Alliance now best team in Europe.
Liquipedia"I was seriously looking for a black guy" - MrHoon
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-31 17:27:52
January 31 2014 17:26 GMT
#685
On February 01 2014 02:22 Flicky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2014 01:14 UdderChaos wrote:
Is it just me or are alliance really bad. Froggen we know can play, and is just on crapy form. But I swear, other than maybe tabz (haven't seen much from him, seems to do ok) and obviously froggen, their team is dogshite. Wickd seems over-rated and then there's the other two. Shook and nyph just look awful. They seem as if forggen just picked two random diamond 2 players. Sure they are good at lol compared to most but they really don't look professional standard. I don't get how players of that standard are being paid to play. Nyph's thresh play in particular is just so meh. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sat like 0 hooks landed after laning phase all lcs (ok maybe the odd one on Leona but that doesn't really count). Where did Froggen find these players? And he really needs a shot caller and team leader.


I'm of the opinion that there's some kind of deeper problem to Alliance's results and I can pin it to is Froggen/Wickd's idea of how the game should be played. A lot of us assumed that EG's playstyle was courtesy of the other three players, but it's clearly linked to Froggen now.

If you watch Nyph's play from the reformed SK, he was initiating, play making and leading his team. Now he's super passive with Tabbz.
When Tabbz was on LD, he was more aggressive and more focused on dueling. Now he's super passive.
Shook (which I've still never seen him perform) was famous for being a super aggressive and deadly jungler.

The way these three are being utilised doesn't match their levels at all and I can only pin it down to the fact that neither Froggen nor Wickd are team-leaders and haven't got a clue about how to play League right now. As far as skill levels go, the team should be ok, it's just their archaic leadership that's not allowing them to flourish.

Wickd and Froggen are stuck so far in Season 2 that it's not even funny any more. Replace Wickd with some hot, fresh top laner (whoever plays the meta) and give the leadership role to Nyph (who has shown that he can lead SK Gaming) and just copy the Koreans. Simple, Alliance now best team in Europe.

Shook on copenhagen wolves was a god, since unlimited/rekkles pretty much always won bot lane he'd just run around auto winning top and mid for cowtard and youngbuck. Tbh he does look far more passive he doesn't seem to be actively seeking to make plays and snowball lanes like he used to. Might be partially that he now has to account for all lanes rather than letting rekkles/unlimited dominate by themselves but I don't think a weaker bot alone is the root of his issues.
It might be worth noting "best jungler EU" shook was always with youngbuck, I think youngbuck is a leader and he might have played a part in making shook so good.
Glorious SEA doto
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
January 31 2014 17:29 GMT
#686
Gambit vs Fnatic can be good as well
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
January 31 2014 17:37 GMT
#687
Wouldnt say that nyph is more passive than on sk, he just doesnt hit anything on his thresh or leona.

I guess we agree that nyph and shook playing way worse than expected.

Alliance playing first again? I thunk they kicked off every playday so far except for the second.
orzeu
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland5205 Posts
January 31 2014 17:39 GMT
#688
On February 01 2014 02:26 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2014 02:22 Flicky wrote:
On February 01 2014 01:14 UdderChaos wrote:
Is it just me or are alliance really bad. Froggen we know can play, and is just on crapy form. But I swear, other than maybe tabz (haven't seen much from him, seems to do ok) and obviously froggen, their team is dogshite. Wickd seems over-rated and then there's the other two. Shook and nyph just look awful. They seem as if forggen just picked two random diamond 2 players. Sure they are good at lol compared to most but they really don't look professional standard. I don't get how players of that standard are being paid to play. Nyph's thresh play in particular is just so meh. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sat like 0 hooks landed after laning phase all lcs (ok maybe the odd one on Leona but that doesn't really count). Where did Froggen find these players? And he really needs a shot caller and team leader.


I'm of the opinion that there's some kind of deeper problem to Alliance's results and I can pin it to is Froggen/Wickd's idea of how the game should be played. A lot of us assumed that EG's playstyle was courtesy of the other three players, but it's clearly linked to Froggen now.

If you watch Nyph's play from the reformed SK, he was initiating, play making and leading his team. Now he's super passive with Tabbz.
When Tabbz was on LD, he was more aggressive and more focused on dueling. Now he's super passive.
Shook (which I've still never seen him perform) was famous for being a super aggressive and deadly jungler.

The way these three are being utilised doesn't match their levels at all and I can only pin it down to the fact that neither Froggen nor Wickd are team-leaders and haven't got a clue about how to play League right now. As far as skill levels go, the team should be ok, it's just their archaic leadership that's not allowing them to flourish.

Wickd and Froggen are stuck so far in Season 2 that it's not even funny any more. Replace Wickd with some hot, fresh top laner (whoever plays the meta) and give the leadership role to Nyph (who has shown that he can lead SK Gaming) and just copy the Koreans. Simple, Alliance now best team in Europe.

Shook on copenhagen wolves was a god, since unlimited/rekkles pretty much always won bot lane he'd just run around auto winning top and mid for cowtard and youngbuck. Tbh he does look far more passive he doesn't seem to be actively seeking to make plays and snowball lanes like he used to. Might be partially that he now has to account for all lanes rather than letting rekkles/unlimited dominate by themselves but I don't think a weaker bot alone is the root of his issues.
It might be worth noting "best jungler EU" shook was always with youngbuck, I think youngbuck is a leader and he might have played a part in making shook so good.

Main problem with Shook is that ppl perma ban Elise/Lee against him and he can't carry in early game like he did in CW. Also trinkets (wards lvl 1) force him to play farm game. Still he should play way better.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
January 31 2014 17:49 GMT
#689
They kinda fucked themselves over yesterday with the lee ban against diamond, ofc they are going to fp khazix away from A, but still wukong, Jarvan or Noc or anything else was still open but they go for nunu lmao.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-31 17:52:04
January 31 2014 17:51 GMT
#690
On February 01 2014 02:39 orzeu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2014 02:26 Fusilero wrote:
On February 01 2014 02:22 Flicky wrote:
On February 01 2014 01:14 UdderChaos wrote:
Is it just me or are alliance really bad. Froggen we know can play, and is just on crapy form. But I swear, other than maybe tabz (haven't seen much from him, seems to do ok) and obviously froggen, their team is dogshite. Wickd seems over-rated and then there's the other two. Shook and nyph just look awful. They seem as if forggen just picked two random diamond 2 players. Sure they are good at lol compared to most but they really don't look professional standard. I don't get how players of that standard are being paid to play. Nyph's thresh play in particular is just so meh. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sat like 0 hooks landed after laning phase all lcs (ok maybe the odd one on Leona but that doesn't really count). Where did Froggen find these players? And he really needs a shot caller and team leader.


I'm of the opinion that there's some kind of deeper problem to Alliance's results and I can pin it to is Froggen/Wickd's idea of how the game should be played. A lot of us assumed that EG's playstyle was courtesy of the other three players, but it's clearly linked to Froggen now.

If you watch Nyph's play from the reformed SK, he was initiating, play making and leading his team. Now he's super passive with Tabbz.
When Tabbz was on LD, he was more aggressive and more focused on dueling. Now he's super passive.
Shook (which I've still never seen him perform) was famous for being a super aggressive and deadly jungler.

The way these three are being utilised doesn't match their levels at all and I can only pin it down to the fact that neither Froggen nor Wickd are team-leaders and haven't got a clue about how to play League right now. As far as skill levels go, the team should be ok, it's just their archaic leadership that's not allowing them to flourish.

Wickd and Froggen are stuck so far in Season 2 that it's not even funny any more. Replace Wickd with some hot, fresh top laner (whoever plays the meta) and give the leadership role to Nyph (who has shown that he can lead SK Gaming) and just copy the Koreans. Simple, Alliance now best team in Europe.

Shook on copenhagen wolves was a god, since unlimited/rekkles pretty much always won bot lane he'd just run around auto winning top and mid for cowtard and youngbuck. Tbh he does look far more passive he doesn't seem to be actively seeking to make plays and snowball lanes like he used to. Might be partially that he now has to account for all lanes rather than letting rekkles/unlimited dominate by themselves but I don't think a weaker bot alone is the root of his issues.
It might be worth noting "best jungler EU" shook was always with youngbuck, I think youngbuck is a leader and he might have played a part in making shook so good.

Main problem with Shook is that ppl perma ban Elise/Lee against him and he can't carry in early game like he did in CW. Also trinkets (wards lvl 1) force him to play farm game. Still he should play way better.

It's a bit bizarre how alliance doesn't draw bans like copenhagen wolves did, lots of bans vs wolves with shook was at cowtard in particular which left shook on his champions of choice like J4, lee sin and elise.
On February 01 2014 02:49 AsnSensation wrote:
They kinda fucked themselves over yesterday with the lee ban against diamond, ofc they are going to fp khazix away from A, but still wukong, Jarvan or Noc or anything else was still open but they go for nunu lmao.

Shook was actually really big on J4 with wolves but J4 isn't good anymore I guess :/
Glorious SEA doto
orzeu
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland5205 Posts
January 31 2014 17:54 GMT
#691
On February 01 2014 02:51 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2014 02:39 orzeu wrote:
On February 01 2014 02:26 Fusilero wrote:
On February 01 2014 02:22 Flicky wrote:
On February 01 2014 01:14 UdderChaos wrote:
Is it just me or are alliance really bad. Froggen we know can play, and is just on crapy form. But I swear, other than maybe tabz (haven't seen much from him, seems to do ok) and obviously froggen, their team is dogshite. Wickd seems over-rated and then there's the other two. Shook and nyph just look awful. They seem as if forggen just picked two random diamond 2 players. Sure they are good at lol compared to most but they really don't look professional standard. I don't get how players of that standard are being paid to play. Nyph's thresh play in particular is just so meh. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sat like 0 hooks landed after laning phase all lcs (ok maybe the odd one on Leona but that doesn't really count). Where did Froggen find these players? And he really needs a shot caller and team leader.


I'm of the opinion that there's some kind of deeper problem to Alliance's results and I can pin it to is Froggen/Wickd's idea of how the game should be played. A lot of us assumed that EG's playstyle was courtesy of the other three players, but it's clearly linked to Froggen now.

If you watch Nyph's play from the reformed SK, he was initiating, play making and leading his team. Now he's super passive with Tabbz.
When Tabbz was on LD, he was more aggressive and more focused on dueling. Now he's super passive.
Shook (which I've still never seen him perform) was famous for being a super aggressive and deadly jungler.

The way these three are being utilised doesn't match their levels at all and I can only pin it down to the fact that neither Froggen nor Wickd are team-leaders and haven't got a clue about how to play League right now. As far as skill levels go, the team should be ok, it's just their archaic leadership that's not allowing them to flourish.

Wickd and Froggen are stuck so far in Season 2 that it's not even funny any more. Replace Wickd with some hot, fresh top laner (whoever plays the meta) and give the leadership role to Nyph (who has shown that he can lead SK Gaming) and just copy the Koreans. Simple, Alliance now best team in Europe.

Shook on copenhagen wolves was a god, since unlimited/rekkles pretty much always won bot lane he'd just run around auto winning top and mid for cowtard and youngbuck. Tbh he does look far more passive he doesn't seem to be actively seeking to make plays and snowball lanes like he used to. Might be partially that he now has to account for all lanes rather than letting rekkles/unlimited dominate by themselves but I don't think a weaker bot alone is the root of his issues.
It might be worth noting "best jungler EU" shook was always with youngbuck, I think youngbuck is a leader and he might have played a part in making shook so good.

Main problem with Shook is that ppl perma ban Elise/Lee against him and he can't carry in early game like he did in CW. Also trinkets (wards lvl 1) force him to play farm game. Still he should play way better.

It's a bit bizarre how alliance doesn't draw bans like copenhagen wolves did, lots of bans vs wolves with shook was at cowtard in particular which left shook on his champions of choice like J4, lee sin and elise.
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2014 02:49 AsnSensation wrote:
They kinda fucked themselves over yesterday with the lee ban against diamond, ofc they are going to fp khazix away from A, but still wukong, Jarvan or Noc or anything else was still open but they go for nunu lmao.

Shook was actually really big on J4 with wolves but J4 isn't good anymore I guess :/

Since Froggen don't have any mains this season, they can't just ban out Shook every game. Also Alliance bad pick/ban phase doesn't help.
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
January 31 2014 17:55 GMT
#692
Actually week 1 Shook was making many dives and ganks that backfired, so maybe team decided he should play more safely, at least for now. I think Flicky might be on to something, I thought Nyph and Tabzz were underperforming because Nyph is just too used to playing with Candypanda, but it is Froggen's team after all, so maybe he just has bad influence on other players. But as Fusilero mentioned, there's not much free talent in EU. Best players are either already in LCS or they want to play in their own challenger teams (apart from Jwaow who might not be the best choice for reasons orzeu mentioned).

Just look at SK. They were a bottom team last season and they just made changes for the worse in S4, because pretty much all their talented players either retired or decided to pursue other opportunities. And they simply couldn't make a new, strong team for the same reason - talented players would rather play in their own challenger teams than participate in some sort of "super team". I would be really suprised if we didn't get 2-3 new teams next split.
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 31 2014 17:55 GMT
#693
Can fnatic be stopped? Even with sloppy play and missing 2 bans they still managed to beat CW. If xpeke doesn't show up, then rekkles and soaz is there to keep um in the game. If rekkles gets shutdown, soaz and xpeke there, etc etc.
liftlift > tsm
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
January 31 2014 17:56 GMT
#694
On February 01 2014 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:
Can fnatic be stopped? Even with sloppy play and missing 2 bans they still managed to beat CW. If xpeke doesn't show up, then rekkles and soaz is there to keep um in the game. If rekkles gets shutdown, soaz and xpeke there, etc etc.


Ofc they can be.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-31 17:57:33
January 31 2014 17:57 GMT
#695
On February 01 2014 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:
Can fnatic be stopped? Even with sloppy play and missing 2 bans they still managed to beat CW. If xpeke doesn't show up, then rekkles and soaz is there to keep um in the game. If rekkles gets shutdown, soaz and xpeke there, etc etc.

With better positioning from celevar and overpow is a bit more careful with his split push roccat is still pretty even with fnatic imo.
Also never doubt gambit's ability to randomly play like world champions for one match
Glorious SEA doto
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
January 31 2014 17:58 GMT
#696
I thought their game against Roccat was pretty fucking close and came down to individual mistakes from Poles, so if they can fix them then I'm expecting a 2:2. But if Gambit doesn't win today, then I'm expecting a Cloud9-esque run by Fnatic this season.
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 31 2014 18:01 GMT
#697
On February 01 2014 02:57 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2014 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:
Can fnatic be stopped? Even with sloppy play and missing 2 bans they still managed to beat CW. If xpeke doesn't show up, then rekkles and soaz is there to keep um in the game. If rekkles gets shutdown, soaz and xpeke there, etc etc.

With better positioning from celevar and overpow is a bit more careful with his split push roccat is still pretty even with fnatic imo.
Also never doubt gambit's ability to randomly play like world champions for one match

I mean, it's one thing to take a game off fnatic, but is there in a team that would give um a run for their money in like a bo5?
liftlift > tsm
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 31 2014 18:02 GMT
#698
YEAR OF HECARIM!
liftlift > tsm
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
January 31 2014 18:02 GMT
#699
On February 01 2014 03:01 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2014 02:57 Fusilero wrote:
On February 01 2014 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:
Can fnatic be stopped? Even with sloppy play and missing 2 bans they still managed to beat CW. If xpeke doesn't show up, then rekkles and soaz is there to keep um in the game. If rekkles gets shutdown, soaz and xpeke there, etc etc.

With better positioning from celevar and overpow is a bit more careful with his split push roccat is still pretty even with fnatic imo.
Also never doubt gambit's ability to randomly play like world champions for one match

I mean, it's one thing to take a game off fnatic, but is there in a team that would give um a run for their money in like a bo5?

Still think roccat can, but we don't really know their ability to play a BO5 besides that one series vs NiP.
Glorious SEA doto
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
January 31 2014 18:05 GMT
#700
Btw apparently Genja is the one that advised Diamond to get Botrk Eve, We're done here boys!
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