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[Champion] Talon

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
Post a Reply
Zahki
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia61 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 21:57:49
April 18 2013 21:44 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Talon, the Blade's Shadow

There wasn't a thread on this awesome guy yet, Talon has been one of my favorite champions since I started playing League of Legends. Talon is an assassin who is characterised with some of the most devastating burst damage in the game, once he uses his gapcloser he can literally unload his entire arsenal onto the target in an instant. His ability to teleport to his target and apply a silence in the process makes him perfect for countering squishy AP champions, particularly those who rely on skillshots such as Brand and Lux.

Pros:
- Insane burst damage, possibly the highest in the game besides LeBlanc
- Snowballs very well, a strong early game can lead to a near unstoppable midgame
- Hard counter to many squishy AP mid champions
- Solid 1 on 1 ability provided he can get the jump on the target
- Fun!

Cons:
- Mana usage can be constricting, especially early game
- Running an AD mid can sometimes cause teamcomp issues if your top or jungle don't want to go AP
- Can only really be run midlane, can't jungle or top unlike his AD Assassin counterparts in Zed and Kha'Zix
- Can sometimes be binary. If you don't snowball it can be hard to impact the game.

Abilities
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Mercy:
Talon's autoattacks deal 10% additional damage to any target that is slowed, stunned, immobilized or suppressed.

Talons passive is largely a nonfactor in his play. It only affects his autoattacks and his Q which is an autoattack modifier. Generally you're not going to be going toe to toe with anything, Talons M.O is jump in, unload and get out, so Mercy doesn't really do much at all.

[image loading]
Noxian Diplomacy: Talon's next autoattack within the next 6 seconds deals additional physical damage. If the target is a champion they will also bleed for 6 seconds, taking additional physical damage each second and revealing their location for the duration.
Cooldown: 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 / 4
Cost: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 Mana

Additional Physical Damage: 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 (+ 30% Bonus AD)
Total DoT Damage: 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 (+ 100% Bonus AD)
Total Damage: 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 (+ 130% Bonus AD)

An autoattack reset, use this immediately after autoattacking for a nice burst of damage. Fairly simple, not much to say about it.

[image loading]
Rake: Talon sends out a volley of daggers in a cone that then quickly return back to him, dealing physical damage to any enemies it passes through. Each enemy can only be damaged once at the start of the ability and once at the end. Additionally the enemy is slowed for 2 seconds, refreshing the duration of the slow if they are hit twice.
Cooldown: 10
Cost: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 Mana

Physical Damage Per Hit: 30 / 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 (+ 60% Bonus AD)
Total Physical Damage: 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 (+ 120% Bonus AD)
Slow: 20% / 25% / 30% / 35% / 40%

Talons primary farming and harassing skill, you'll want to max this first for better waveclear. The slow also increases with each point, which is very useful when you go ganking.

[image loading]
Cutthroat: Talon instantly appears behind his target, silencing them for 1 second and amplifying his damage against that target for 3 seconds.
Cooldown: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10
Cost: 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 Mana

Damage Amplification: 3% / 6% / 9% / 12% / 15%

Talons gapcloser and the skill that makes him such a dangerous threat throughout the game. The ability to jump straight onto your target and apply a silence allows you to AA, Q, W then Ult in a moment without worrying about them flashing away or being able to counterattack with any CC of their own. Because Talon can unload so much burst so quickly a lot of the time the only counterplay for squishy targets to avoid getting gibbed by him is simply to try and stay out of range of this skill.

[image loading]
Shadow Assault: Talon disperses blades outwards in a 500-radius ring and gains stealth for up to 2.5 seconds while gaining 40% movement speed. When Talon emerges from stealth, the blades converge on his location. When the ring of blades expands and contracts, enemies hit receive physical damage. Each enemy can only be damaged once at the start of the ability and once at the end.
Cooldown: 75 / 65 / 55
Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 Mana

Physical Damage Per Hit: 120 / 170 / 220 (+ 75% Bonus AD)
Total Physical Damage: 240 / 340 / 440 (+ 150% Bonus AD)

Talons most distinctive ability and a big part of why he's so fun to play. It plays a huge part in his success as an assassin, the key being that it gives him stealth and a speed boost while damaging the target, effectively giving him a way to escape while he delivers the finishing blow. Apart from simply being the capstone on your combo the stealth and speed boost can also be used to get in range of a target for a sure kill, surprising them when you E to them without any warning at all. It also has a relatively short cooldown, especially with an early brutalizer and blue buff, so use it freely to keep your lane opponent low.

Skill Order
W > Q > E


Runes:
Red: Armor Penetration
Yellow: Flat Armor
Blue: Flat Magic Resist
Quintessence: Attack Damage

Bog standard rune page for all AD champions really. Gives you your defenses, some early AD for last hitting and some Armor Pen that will scale well into the late game. A possible alternative page would be AD in place of Armor Penetration, this gives +15 AD at level 1, nice if you're playing against an easy lane and want the additional early game damage to snowball that much harder.

Masteries
21/9/0 is the way to go. Talon is all about offense, so take all the good AD Masteries then dip into defense for the extra HP and Magic Resist/Armor. Not much wiggle room here really, offense is the only viable tree for Talon. You could dip into Utility for the extra mana regen if you feel like it, but generally I feel like having the defense is just more useful all round.

http://leaguecraft.com/masteries/10424003100200030100401300010000000000000000000000000000

Items:
Damage, damage and more damage. Start the game with a mix of red/blue pots and a ward. You should be aiming to get a Brutalizer on your first buy, it's the perfect item for early game Talon. If you're having a hard time in lane a couple of Dorans can help out with the extra HP and health return on hit. Alternatively a Hexdrinker can be handy against the AP champs you'll be laning against, the passive is very nice for those trades that come just a little bit too close to the wire.

You have a choice of 2 boots, Mobility or Lucidity. Most of the time Mobility are the superior option, Talon is a champion who really needs to snowball by getting those ganks off, Mobility boots help you get around the map and get into position to get those ganks off so much better than anything else. Lucidity for the CDR are the other option, if you think ganking the sidelanes is going to be too hard you can pick these up instead and focus on just winning your own lane.

Completing your Bloodthirster or Last Whisper should be your goal for the mid game. If the enemy team is light on armor, go for the BT, if you notice they're already stocking up on things like Seekers Armguard and Sunfire Capes then pick up an early Last Whisper. Generally you should have them both completed before you look to completing your Black Cleaver, Cleaver is good but both Bloodthirster and Last Whisper help your damage much much more, and if you can get them ahead of the curve you will be a true mid game terror, shredding off huge chunks of HP with your Rake and Noxian Diplomacy.

Adding in a defensive item should be youir final goal, Guardian Angel is the standout here, Talons role lategame is to trade his life for the enemy ADC more or less, it's quite hard to escape alive when you're diving deep onto the squishy targets. GA gives you an extra chance to either get away or rejoin the fight when you get exploded from people angry at you gibbing their ADC. Alternative options are Warmogs or Frozen Mallet. Extra HP is always nice, it increases your margin for error. Frozen Mallet is an interesting option I see on other Talons from time to time, if you catch any isolated target out it ensures a kill every time and works nicely in tandem with your passive if you ever get a chance to just autoattack a guy to death. A defensive item isn't really mandatory, you can always go with more offense for your last item, but I find at the end game where so much incidental AoE damage is flying around it's handy to have a buffer so you're not riding on the razors edge.

I see Triforce sometimes as well, but this is an option I'm not particularly fond of. Triforce is massively expensive and does not provide the AD that Talon needs. The passive provides some extra burst, but it's much better for champions who fight in prolonged skirmishes and are constantly using their abilities to proc it, that is definitely not Talon. Infinity Edge is another choice you might look at, but again it is very expensive and you're paying a premium to get Crit and extra crit damage, not a stat that Talon is generally interested in. Bloodthirster is a more efficient option, more AD for a cheaper price. Then again if you're fed as hell and can sit on guys and auto attack til they're dead, hey why not pick it up.

Gameplay:

Talon is an assassin so like all assassins his gameplay revolves around positioning yourself to jump onto and quickly execute high value targets, which are usually the enemy carries. Also, like other assassins, Talon relies somewhat on snowballing with kills, since he scales very well into midgame with a good lead, but has a very hard time remaining relevant in a game where he is behind. Thankfully Talon is fantastic at roaming around the map picking up kills, his ability to jump onto a target and unload everything in an instant then run away makes him a decent tower diver as well.

Talon can only really be played as a midlaner, as a counter to squishy AP champions. Bruisers absolutely murderise Talon so playing him top is not recommended. He's also a bit squishy to jungle, and doesn't get the farm he needs there, jungling him only leads to him falling into irrelevancy.

Early Game (1- 8): Talon is relatively weak in the very early game, from levels 1 to 3. Rake is not all that damaging at this level and you lack your other skills to combo, there's really not much to do but focus on last hitting and avoiding getting harassed down too much. Picking up plenty of potions is vital for this stage because you'll usually be up against a ranged champion of some sort and being harassed is basically unavoidable unless you sacrifice lots of CS. At level 4 it's time to get more assertive, with your superior autoattack damage you can outtrade most AP champions and force them to play more conservatively. At this point you're more or less priming the target for the kill. Once you hit 6 you should usually be able to all in for a kill, if not then look to the sidelanes and see if either of them are gankable. Once you have your ult it's your responsibility to constantly be checking for ganking opportunities and it's a key part of snowballing with Talon. It's crucial to make something happen on the map, even if it's just forcing laners to recall to their base.

Mid Game (9 - 15): This is the stage where Talon shines, if you've done well, have a kill or two under your belt and decent farm then you should be a real menace, ambushing enemy champions and killing them before they can say "Wait Talon was in that bush?".Warding the enemy jungle is a very good idea, you can pick up easy kills by watching for enemy champs wandering around it alone.

Late Game: (16 - 18): Once late game hits Talon's strength tails off a bit. You'll still be able to murderise anyone who hasn't built defense within a single combo, but thats usually just the ADC, thus your role in the late game is to get at that high value target and kill them. Succeeding in teamfights and not just E'ing in and dying instantly actually requires a bit of finesse at this point, use your judgement and jump in when the enemy team has used their CC or are distracted. If you can get the kill off and escape alive it's a huge win because ADCs are a massive portion of their teams damage in the late game. Otherwise trading 1 for 1 isn't so bad because the ADC would do a hell of a lot more damage than you would've over the course of a fight. You can also splitpush quite well if you make sure to ward the nearby jungle, your ultimate provides a good escape and Talon is a good duelist, meaning if they only send 1 guy you stand a good chance of killing him unless he's built full tank

So thats Talon, if you enjoy other assassins and like gibbing people before they can respond, give him a shot! He's very fun and stylish to boot!
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
April 19 2013 03:56 GMT
#2
Note that the additional damage (on-hit, not the DoT) of his Q works on towers, making him actually pretty good at killing them if left alone, especially as you start skilling it up (around level 10) since it lowers the cooldown. 4s aa reset with bonus damage on a champ who already wants to build a lot of AD sort of counteracts his lack of AS/range.

I don't play him a whole lot (basically when I feel like going for some risky/finesse-requiring/fun champ and I get to play mid) but when it happens I like to skip bruta altogether if I get the chance and just shoot for BFS. With it (or at worst with the completed/stacked BT) you should be able to 100-0 enemy champs, which the bruta doesn't let you do (it does however make you more likely to do enough damage to your lane opponent that the next combo+ult will kill him, once E comes back up). You hit a power spike later because of the big gold dump, but if you can afford it (due to circumstances of the game or just lane opponent) it makes your roaming much more potent, which can in turn easily be abused through your ult's short cooldown to force backs on the opposing team just to get drakes and stuff.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
m3tju
Profile Joined January 2013
Poland2 Posts
April 19 2013 08:14 GMT
#3
About Trinity Force - this item is just bad for Talon. His AD ratios are insane, and the only way Trinity contributes to your damage output is the Sheen proc (it offers little-to-no AD) . In fact, not-stacked BT gives you more damage, and it's ~600g cheaper than Trinity Force.
"Surprise! I'm back..."
Zahki
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia61 Posts
April 19 2013 08:50 GMT
#4
On April 19 2013 17:14 m3tju wrote:
About Trinity Force - this item is just bad for Talon. His AD ratios are insane, and the only way Trinity contributes to your damage output is the Sheen proc (it offers little-to-no AD) . In fact, not-stacked BT gives you more damage, and it's ~600g cheaper than Trinity Force.


Yeah it's not good at all. The reason I mentioned it is that I see a lot of Talons building it, and a lot of guides spruiking it. Like this one: http://www.lolking.net/guides/116208

Thats a 2500 elo player who puts Triforce in his core build, he should really know better, but thats how this misinformation gets spread.
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
November 08 2013 21:16 GMT
#5
Very well written although I didn't see any mention of Tiamat/Hydra in this guide. Adding this item into your build during the mid game makes Talon and AoE monster not to mention another auto attack reset. I'm not sure if I should rush it early for the sustain or wait until team fights to build it but either way I tend to forget about BT in favor of Hydra/BC/LW.
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
November 09 2013 04:41 GMT
#6
I like to max E second over Q for the cooldown and damage amp...well, mostly the cooldown. Not sure if it's trash but it feels really good to have it up in almost half the time.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
November 10 2013 13:24 GMT
#7
well Insoy, the challenger only Talon Player (on NA) goes tiamat into Bruta LW GA, only then upgrades to hydra. And he also maxes Q first which I thought was interesting.

Thats really all I could glean from his games as he does not stream so I had to deduce it through spectating him through other streams.
Carrilord has arrived.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
November 10 2013 13:58 GMT
#8
Why would he max Q first? I honestly can't think of any reason to do so.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-10 14:15:58
November 10 2013 14:11 GMT
#9
Yea I've looked at the math I'm not sure, with blue you can Q twice during Cutthroat buff, but rank 1 of cutthroat is like 3% so who gives a fuck, Mercy does not work with onhits, just the raw auto damage, so that isn't it either,

I just assume you can reliably get a 2nd one off at a 4 second cd, using your 4s cd.

E>auto>Q> orb forward > Rake when silence wears off > auto > tiamat > Q if flash is on cd, this should work (also you can mix in ult to get in front for the 2nd Q)

on the flip side Talon isn't going to force a ~8(with blue) second trade that he wins lol, so you aren't getting a 2nd W, making Q max result in a ~150 base damage increase over W.

if you plan to kill with the typical, all in where you kill them in 3 seconds though yea it makes no sense but in that situation either max most likely kills.
Carrilord has arrived.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 10 2013 21:23 GMT
#10
On November 09 2013 13:41 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I like to max E second over Q for the cooldown and damage amp...well, mostly the cooldown. Not sure if it's trash but it feels really good to have it up in almost half the time.

Did the maths for his numbers pre- and post- E bug fix (when it didn't amplify Talon's damage) because this made me curious as well, and Q > E in most realistic situations.

Maxing Q first also means that champions with strong pushing or harass can abuse your E cd really hard, or just shove. I wonder if he always does it or simply in some match-ups?
Another thing with Q is that the bleed DoT lasts 6 seconds, and I don't know how the overlap works when you Q cd gets below that. I assume it's refreshed so you lose dps anyway though (and most of Q's damage comes from the DoT so even if you get a 2nd one under 3s (not likely seeing how Talon's E has some kind of wind-down after the jump, and if you want to use Q as an auto reset you easily drop 1s here), the bleed won't be affected by the damage amplification).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
November 10 2013 21:30 GMT
#11
ITT 25% = most?
Carrilord has arrived.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 10 2013 22:58 GMT
#12
Well there's the 30% vs 100% bonus AD part. Need 30 bonus AD with level 1 Q for the DoT to deal more damage, and 140 bonus AD with level 5 Q.
On the other hand there's the total AD additional damage coming from the auto itself too, admittedly.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
November 12 2013 19:34 GMT
#13
You miss out on early wave clear by maxing Q but that changes once you rush a Tiamat. Auto>Q>Tiamat>Auto clears creeps very fast. I still max W and rush Tiamat because I want to clear very fast and try to roam bot as early as I can.
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
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