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Romania903 Posts
On November 23 2015 00:01 Existor wrote: I think, cyclones aren't that bad Probably you noticed that the zerg player was quite passive for the entirety of the game (while employing the same army composition which was mostly ground based). Using a small cyclones group as a harassing unit during late game might work provided that the zerg (as seen in the vod) has no clue how to approach the late game in efficient manner. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And hey Blizzard, Ravagers have it, Hellbats have it. Give it to vikings too. Remove armored from their ground mode. | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On November 22 2015 16:19 deth wrote: Controlling space and playing strategically goes against the grain of what they're trying to achieve with constant action, fights and expanding. Mech has been collateral damage for them in achieving that goal. To me I find that to be really weird. Constant fights and expanding goes hand in hand with strategic-positional play. Constantly trying to push forward and hold off pushes while securing locations is what they're looking for, but they seems to prefer resorting to simpler methods of micro in the form of more abilities and units which need to be babysat more. I think if blizzard focused on starcraft's micro being simple actions on many different groups of units rather than more complex actions on individual units in a large, deathball fight it would be a better game. The lurker, disruptor, and liberator are all units which can work very well in a positional environment. | ||
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A_Scarecrow
Australia721 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2657 Posts
On November 23 2015 05:43 A_Scarecrow wrote: look at wol and hots. mech didnt become viable for a long time after release. It took a lot of patching and hellbats to make mech viable in HotS | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
BUFF THE TANK. Remove the Cyclone. Give Thor AA if Goliaths aren't going to be put back into the game. Remove the widow mine from the game and give mines back to Hellions (Vultures) on an ammo system. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Give Thor AA if Goliaths aren't going to be put back into the game. Thor already have AA. Liberators already can oneshot mutaball, if you have 5 libs | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
They should make the Cyclone a dedicated, highly effective anti-air unit. It even looks like a mobile SAM weapon system. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
Look at BW for how mech can be exciting, aggressive, active, and strategically interesting even though tanks are immobile: Really great mech games are all over the place. The reason why we don't see this happening is because since the beta in Wings of Liberty these units have been too weak to ever use. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On November 23 2015 07:22 ledarsi wrote: In Starcraft 2, mech has been boring because it is so weak you cannot attack with it. Instead people would turtle into skyterran, like the Raven/BC blob. But looking at how shit mech is in SC2 and inferring that therefore mech is boring is completely wrong. You guys have never even seen mech when it wasn't uselessly weak and incapable of aggression. Oh no, quite the contrary, a lot of mech game through WoL and HoTS were just 3CC into one big attack. It was still terrible. Brood War is a different game and is irrelevant in the discussion, but I would say that if you miss the brood war way to play terran, switch to protoss, because it is quite similar. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
I like how I hear sometimes SC2 being referred to as just "Starcraft" and then reading someone say a comparison with BW being "irrelevant". Face it, SC2's whole foundations of the 3 races, the cost of the base units and buildings, the resource model and supply is directly taken from SC1. Anything that they put in SC2 that was also in SC1 is very easy to directly compare and very relevant. That's how it is most obvious to criticize SC2 and maybe why you don't like such comparisons being made. Even if you don't like it, SC1 is a much better game than SC2, and it is obvious if you compare what you can do with zealots, marines, zerglings, hydras, tanks, just about anything that is in both games, and yes that includes what you can do with mech in SC1 or with bio in SC1 or with both. | ||
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cakolas
8 Posts
On November 23 2015 06:49 DemigodcelpH wrote: How to fix mech: BUFF THE TANK. Remove the Cyclone. Give Thor AA if Goliaths aren't going to be put back into the game. Remove the widow mine from the game and give mines back to Hellions (Vultures) on an ammo system. This. | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
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Assaulter
Lithuania324 Posts
On November 22 2015 18:04 avilo wrote: No one wants games like that...the only reason games ever were like that in the first place is because tanks are weak compared to pre-nerf tanks/brood war tanks that. Think of the liberator right now. Right now everyone knows liberators destroy stuff HARD. You don't step in that fuckin circle unless you are 100% sure you can take the fight and gogo. Liberators control space because they do enough damage to control that space, even with only 2-3 liberators. Siege tanks USED to be able to do that when tehy did 65 dmg per shot. People had to actually back off in those situations because the tank held it's ground. The tank in it's current form with current damage...people literally a-move into them and come out ahead. Only way to play mech is to turtle into a huge critical mass of tanks to overcome the previous tank damage nerf from ages ago. Blizzard made mech what it is with that one nerf alone from years ago. They didn't want turtle mech games, but ironically removing the damage from the tank forces you to turtle if you want to play a mech game... Spitting truth right here, i stopped playing since HOTS beta because they promised to make mech good in hots, but they simply didn't. Mech should be based around the SIEGE TANK, not any supporting unit that you need to mass to protect your weak tanks... When the main unit that im looking to win with is no longer the tank but me having to do some air switch or something, that's just no longer terran mech. It really makes me sad but playing mech is simply NOT FUN ever since the start of hots to me because the tank is just so weak on it's own without a ton of supporting units and has so many "counters". The tanks don't matter anymore, and that means the positional play you can do with them is no longer there, which makes mech lose all the charm and fun positional play it had in the past. It's like the siege tank's only purpose is to have high range and poke at your enemy's army to make him engage, but the tank itself doesn't do much damage at all, so the tank is no longer a main unit in your army it's just a support unit. It's really sad that i'll sooner die than blizzard will take a look at the tank and wonder if they should increase it's damage/dps to make it truly a unit that can control space and give strategic options, instead of having to bunch all your tanks in one place because otherwise any little runby will just overrun your position. I thought surely at some point in the lotv beta they will just try out reverting that old nerf and increase the tank's damage, but no... Oh well. Good luck to anyone STILL trying to mech, you'll need it. | ||
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cmdspinner1
140 Posts
On November 23 2015 07:35 Vanadiel wrote: Oh no, quite the contrary, a lot of mech game through WoL and HoTS were just 3CC into one big attack. It was still terrible. Brood War is a different game and is irrelevant in the discussion, but I would say that if you miss the brood war way to play terran, switch to protoss, because it is quite similar. Yes, mech has to turlte until maxed out and attack in a deathball because splitting is impossible. Even if maxed out, the army can get destroyed by Zerg and Protoss on the open field in a matter of seconds. This leads to mech players turling on 3 bases into air. Ledarsi is right, the games are just boring because factory units (the tank especially) are too weak in low numbers. TVT games involving mech are often very exciting because the opposing terran can't just kill the entire mech army by a moving. He has to position his army smartly, flank and make raids and drops and take lots of small engagements. | ||
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always_winter
United States195 Posts
Haha, the one-word rebuttal implying something of value has been conveyed. Why don't you leave balance discussion to the big boys, little buddy? Poor lil guy. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
Some of the problems are: 1)no use or synergy for WMs in a mech composition due to the high supply cost. So instead of acting as a space/flank control for mech, it's actually just a mini Siege Tank for bio and, an occasional drop harras. 2)a very poor core unit in the Siege Tank that instead of being fixed, is given gimmick uses with the silly medvac drop. 3)the heavy cost of units together with the new eco should have been addressed with some cost adjustments. Mech is very reliant on Turrets, Senzor T, PFs and Hellions. The cost for all of these should have been lowered. I feel like Blizzard has no clear idea on what to do, or they are simply lying when they say they want mech viable. 2 expansions they had this as a goal, and the best we got was mass air armies of casters and now it looks like mass air armies of liberators. We'll just have to wait for 2 years before they even address the issue and then expect a patch that buffs BCs or something like that. It's really hopeless lol | ||
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