Community Feedback Update - August 28 - Page 21

On August 31 2015 23:15 TimeSpiral wrote:


Really, guys? So much hate ...

On August 31 2015 23:27 Big J wrote:


I was talking about DeepBurrow (=ZerglingShepard1's alter ego) who commented right after Little-Chimp posted the thing I responded to.
But quite honestly, I do believe too your comment was quite over the top. The PvZ's before your comment were very close (2-1 in favor for the zergs) and the PvZs afterwards were two stomps from the Protoss' over the Zergs. It's really not that "Zerg is a total lol-fest and everyone knows it." but Terran being too weak in both matchups as I said. PvZ seems to be quite winable for both sides at that moment in time.
Even in Archon mode it looks like both zerg's are heavily busy managing all their shit and still making big mistakes so I find those comments about "easy race" quite laughable. Just balance the TvX matchups and you will see how zerg will have to play very well against equally skilled opponents on all levels if they want to win.

On August 31 2015 23:27 Big J wrote:


I was talking about DeepBurrow (=ZerglingShepard1's alter ego) who commented right after Little-Chimp posted the thing I responded to.
But quite honestly, I do believe too your comment was quite over the top. The PvZ's before your comment were very close (2-1 in favor for the zergs) and the PvZs afterwards were two stomps from the Protoss' over the Zergs. It's really not that "Zerg is a total lol-fest and everyone knows it." but Terran being too weak in both matchups as I said. PvZ seems to be quite winable for both sides at that moment in time.
Even in Archon mode it looks like both zerg's are heavily busy managing all their shit and still making big mistakes so I find those comments about "easy race" quite laughable. Just balance the TvX matchups and you will see how zerg will have to play very well against equally skilled opponents on all levels if they want to win.

On September 01 2015 01:07 Vanadiel wrote:


I find your statement quite delusional, the game will be balanced in the end so winrate at the moment does not matter at all, but I find unbelievable that you deny how much easier Zerg has been made comparatively to the two other races. Injects was the only difficult part about macroing as Zerg (with creep spread), except when you want to produce building (and that is much less frequent than the other races) you never have to go manage your base, all the productions of units, supply is achievable in three clic, then you can automatically define a rally point and you can directly add them to your control group.

The difficulty of injects was the only point that makes Zerg macro equally difficult to terrans and protoss, and since injecting was much more difficult than managing your Mules/chronoboost which also have been "auto-casted", it is quite logical that Zerg is now the easiest race when it comes to macro management.

On September 01 2015 01:37 -Archangel- wrote:
*snip*

With inject zerg macro was hardest, on average zerg players had more APM. Now the whole business is back to about equal.

On August 29 2015 03:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Is that a Rotti shoutout?

Not a fan of the autocasted macro boosters. I'd rather they just take them all out and balance the game around regular old macro.

On September 01 2015 01:07 Vanadiel wrote:


I find your statement quite delusional, the game will be balanced in the end so winrate at the moment does not matter at all, but I find unbelievable that you deny how much easier Zerg has been made comparatively to the two other races. Injects was the only difficult part about macroing as Zerg (with creep spread), except when you want to produce building (and that is much less frequent than the other races) you never have to go manage your base, all the productions of units, supply is achievable in three clic, then you can automatically define a rally point and you can directly add them to your control group.

The difficulty of injects was the only point that makes Zerg macro equally difficult to terrans and protoss, and since injecting was much more difficult than managing your Mules/chronoboost which also have been "auto-casted", it is quite logical that Zerg is now the easiest race when it comes to macro management.

On September 01 2015 02:54 BluemoonSC wrote:


the thing about that comparison is that terran and protoss players don't have to make the decision to create workers at certain times in the game, so in that regard, its not as simple as "spawn larva, make more units."

it's "ok, if i get one more wave of drones out, i can spit and make a round of units before my opponent moves out."

the decision of what units to make, how many, and when (especially when you're waiting for an important tech building to finish) is all a part of zerg macro where as a terran or protoss player, its much more straight forward with what you can build and when. to say that zerg macro can be summed up by not missing injects is a fallacy that non-zerg players live in.

On September 01 2015 02:13 TimeSpiral wrote:

[...] Zerg is the simplest to understand: if you want more units--doesn't matter which ones, you can choose that later--continuously Spawn Larva with Queens on Hatches.

On September 01 2015 03:32 BluemoonSC wrote:


i would imagine the ability is cast on a building, and during the duration of chronoboost, you can switch the building you want it cast on, and when it is done on the original structure, it will be then be cast on the new structure.

as for larva inject being removed and more larva coming from queens, i said this in another thread or maybe earlier in this one but there are a couple problems that will arise

1) queens can be more dedicated to defense and attacks. losing a queen is no longer a big deal and can be used aggressively. on the other hand, early attacks won't find the queens split up at different bases, waddling to get to the attack.

2) a side effect of problem 1 is the speed at which creep will take over the map.

3) more larva early on can create volatile situations where you see a zerg player banking like 5-6 larva to instantly spawn 10-12 zerglings on one base while getting speed because, again, queens aren't necessary. zvz would become a nightmare and P/T players would never be able to quickly expand because of the threat of a huge ling flood early.

On September 01 2015 04:05 BluemoonSC wrote:


i understand what you're trying to say. let me rephrase what i meant. unlike the other two races, zerg have 3 resources: minerals, gas, and larva. terran and protoss macro is based purely off of how much money they have at a given point in a game. if you have too much money floating, you can make structures that spend that money. if you are creating workers without overlap, this money can be easily defined and spent accordingly. you have money, you have production structures, you make the stuff you want out of them. it's is much more straight forward than zerg macro.

zerg, on the other hand, have to take into account their income just like protoss and terran, but the undefined is how they spend their 3rd resource, the larva. yes, in the beginning of the game you have a set plan..get your hatch at this time, drop your spawning pool at this time. but after about 30 supply when your first inject happens, a lot of that is out the window due to the nature of the game and the adjustments required for success.. "did a bunch of adepts move out on the map? i need to make speedlings. ok, i made a couple too many and my economy is hurting, so i need to spend the rest of my larva on drones. alright, i'm floating too many minerals and I don't have enough larva, better get a macro hatch." etc. the process that is zerg macro has many deviations and shortcuts.

tl;dr zerg macro doesn't happen linearly like protoss or terran and to say "just spit if you want to make units" is oversimplifying that

On September 01 2015 04:53 HomeWorld wrote:
Why do I have the impression that the dudes "at blizzard, can't even call them devs or balance team" modus operandi is to randomly change stuff and hope it sticks. I've been following/playing this game since 2011 and that's my honest opinion in retrospective. As it is , the current SC2 (LotV and even HotS) stopped being the SC2 that we knew and loved.
I still have some hope , maybe, maybe, they will get it right, tho, that might be wishful thinking ...

On September 01 2015 05:53 Little-Chimp wrote:
I'm not sure why creep spread gets ignored so much in these "jerg ez" discussions about looking at their base lol. Spreading creep well takes up way more actions than popping supply depots, but I guess it doesn't count because it's not in the base and it's not as "mandatory".

Like I suppose you wouldnt creep spread in an important battle, but honestly no terran is going to be building supply depots while splitting marines vs banelings. It's pretty much equal footing.

That being said, lol at autoinject with 3 larva. gg everyone else

On September 01 2015 02:13 TimeSpiral wrote:


If you compare Spawn Larva to dropping MULE or assigning Chronoboost, then it's incredibly obvious that Spawn Larva was the "hardest" of the three, but that's a silly comparison. Spawn Larva--imho--is more accurately compared to the scaling of production capabilities for Terran and Protoss. In this context, Zerg is the simplest to understand: if you want more units--doesn't matter which ones, you can choose that later--continuously Spawn Larva with Queens on Hatches. Terran and Protoss is, of course, different. Investments must be made in production infrastructures, and this constitutes a tangible premeditated commitment. Certainly builds or comps require scaling your production with your economy properly, and this is much less straight forward than "don't miss Spawn Larvas if you want to build lots of units."

All three races are difficult to play well. Starcraft 2 is a hard game. They each have their focuses, and will appeal to players of different dispositions.