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I'd also note that laning and trading is very different than say a duel over a crab.
Pantheon wins almost every combo for combo trade; his passive weighs will in Lane and his E is amazing for trading.
But in an all in, he's less good because you only get your passive and your E on your first combo, but that's not enough to scare anyone away if they know your kit, at which point you're a sitting duck until you can get 3 more autos off while you wait for your CDs. Vs true brawler / duelists (say Xin / Reksai / Olaf / Graves) they just kill you while you're waiting for your CDs and passive, and vs casters (say LeeSin, Nida, Elise) they just stall for CDs and don't let your recharge your passive
In Lane I think he's one of the scariest champs in the game at level 3, tbh. Not sure if there are lethality rates per level stats, but if there were I bet he'd be high on that list. Not the list of full commitment 100 to 0 all ins though, I think he loses that to a lot of champs.
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On August 23 2019 06:40 iCanada wrote:
In Lane I think he's one of the scariest champs in the game at level 3, tbh. Not sure if there are lethality rates per level stats, but if there were I bet he'd be high on that list. Not the list of full commitment 100 to 0 all ins though, I think he loses that to a lot of champs.
I cant for the life of me remember which stats page it is, but I know there's one of them that list how often they get first blood. Talon led by a decent margin (nobody respect his level 2 I guess lol) and iirc it was (old) Pantheon second.
On August 23 2019 06:05 Slusher wrote:
Irelia and Azir just have bad win rates even when strong. I haven’t played the match up myself yet (Irelia) but I would imagine it’s even at worst.
Midlane Irelia's are usually good in my experience, toplane Irelia's are just TFBlade fans. 
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Level 2 talon is probably because level 1 talon doesn't do a whole lot. Level 2 talon actually has the means to proc his passive which makes his damage increase by like 3x on a single levelup. Pantheon also doesn't surprise me as a ton of people didn't respect the fact that he would crit low HP targets, which is a death sentence if you're in that range(assuming you ate 2-3 spears at level 1, and maybe some auto damage, you might be with a combo).
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do you skill E lvl2 on old panth? (required for crits)
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On August 23 2019 10:53 Slusher wrote:
do you skill E lvl2 on old panth? (required for crits)
Oh it was E that crit?
I guess people just didn't expect the amount of damage that would come out at level 2 then.
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100% auto attack crit and q crit was a passive of the e skill
(The e does not crit so I can see why it’s confusing)
I’ve literally never played lane pantheon so maybe they did idk
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Nah, generally old Pantheon was usually QWQE, personally. But some players skilled E at level 3.
As a general rule, you'd poke level 1 with Q, all in when you hit level 2 (hopefully you pushing and they level 1) then if you couldn't get a kill you'd chill till 3 and poke at 3 with level 2 Q, then all in when you hit level 4 (again hopefully you managed wave well so you're slow pushing and they're level 3.)
Very mana efficient with Q poke and even when I was low diamond seasons ago I got solo kills almost every game in top or bot if you controlled the wave well and jungle pressure went your way.
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QWQE was better like 5 seasons ago, from then till they reworked him QWE was always the optimal start, but I am too lazy atm to explain why and anyway it doesnt matter anymore
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Eh, I'm old man that has played the same way for like the last 5 years, so that sounds right. Lol.
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EPT
