EPTFor those who didnt see them - his passive now gives flat damage + 5%ap on hit per stack (up to 5). So at max amount its 55 damage + 25% ap per hit.
Blood boil now gives 40% bonus AP to both targets (with a cap of 20+20/level of blood boil)
[Patch 8.1] Welcome to Season 8 General Discussion - Page 3
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DiracMonopole
United States1555 Posts
For those who didnt see them - his passive now gives flat damage + 5%ap on hit per stack (up to 5). So at max amount its 55 damage + 25% ap per hit. Blood boil now gives 40% bonus AP to both targets (with a cap of 20+20/level of blood boil) | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 12 2018 18:37 DarkCore wrote: The difference between new support items and GP5 items is that they are incredibly cheap, and pay out for their T1 form very quickly. The punishment for not going T2 immediately is minuscule, in fact many forgo upgrading until they have sightstone or some other item. Meawhile, with GP5 items, you had to build it first item, or you'd be behind severely. It was even worse when you could get double GP5 items, if you're enemy support got some kills he could come back with Philo and HoG and basically laugh in your face with his endless stream of gold. Really, your defense here of the new GP5 items is that they are actually really good items, which means they don't need gold passives. They defeat the purpose of a tradeoff. On January 12 2018 18:37 DarkCore wrote: Other reason I don't like GP5 is because there is no incentive for aggressive play. Frostfang requires you to harass, Targon's requires you to get into melee range of minions, just Coin allows passive play. All of a sudden, Janna becomes the new golden standard again. GP5 items, when properly implemented, encourage aggressive play by the player that doesn't have them. The fact that you can afford to be aggro with a GP5 item means it is broken. On January 12 2018 18:37 DarkCore wrote: But clearing the jungle fast is what makes Yi a Yi. You just decided that jungle clear speeds are not integral to champion design, which I don't think is true. You can think that, but then you need to find me another, good way, to get Annie Jungle vs. Rammus Jungle vs. Tryndamere Jungle in LCS playoffs. On January 12 2018 18:37 DarkCore wrote: True, but evening out clear speeds wouldn't solve the problem of jungle diversity, because then people would just pick utility champs. To go to Yi, if he weren't able to outfarm the enemy jungler and have an exp/gold advantage, he'd be a pretty shit jungler because he brings absolutely no utility or CC. He thrives on blowing up people, and if he can't pull a lv/item advantage easily, there's no reason to pick. I'd argue that getting a farming advantage should be premised on the choice to farm, so you can still achieve it. As I already said, people already select junglers almost purely on utility in pro play, they just select from a small pool that provides that, plus with the ability to clear. On January 12 2018 18:37 DarkCore wrote: It was getting to the point where every mid laner was running into the jungle clearing wraiths. Orianna, Ryze, Gragas?, Morgana etc were doing the same thing. And junglers weren't that poor, they were more supportive by S2 Worlds, but running Dr. Mundo ward bot and relying on his ultimate to cover up his lack of gold was not the way to go. Discussing why jungle creeps should/shouldn't be near lanes is a pretty big topic. If they're too easy to access, laners will be able to harass or clear camps too easily. Too far, and the laners can't interact with the jungler except for ganks, cutting off an entire part of the game. You're only looking at this from the point of view of the jungler, not the laners. I personally think the shape of the current jungle, and the map in general, is extremely good, it is possible to reach many parts of the jungle from lane quite fast, but it can still be time consuming and not worth it. Literally the world championship winning strategy was "not the way to go". Very serious. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On January 13 2018 03:17 Ansibled wrote: They AP change seems weird to me because it creates a situation where you're not sure who is the best person to blood boil which seems like something Riot would be against. Makes me shudder at the thought of Nunu+Kayle or Nunu+Diana. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On January 13 2018 03:37 Gahlo wrote: Makes me shudder at the thought of Nunu+Kayle or Nunu+Diana. I was more thinking Azir. But kayle scary too. On January 13 2018 03:39 JimmiC wrote: If any nunu buff goes through I will be a jungle Nunubot main next season! On the other hand, ima ban that shit every game. Lol. That champion is so aids to play and play against. Do not want him to be good, personally. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
I don't see a reason for having every champion jungle. Do you see Cass/Elise bot lanes? Or Trynd Mid? Unlike lanes, there is no true matchup in jungle. It's inherently a PVE based role. If you standardise the PVE part of the role you're removing a huge part of the role and of the champions that play that role. Elise wouldn't be nearly as special if every AP champ with a stun can play jungle and clear easily and quickly. Her spiders become worthless for the most part, no longer providing unique play and then all these AP stun champs will just crowd her out and she'll never see play again. Sure you might get Annie jungle, but you'll lose a lot of the other original junglers and you will lose many people in the role in my opinion. Maining jungle sucks. Your role gets chopped and changed so often and so stupidly (IMO) that it makes it hard to have an identity as a jungler. Which is kind of a plus in that it accommodates so many playstyles but essentially removing that PVE element removes the core identity of many champions. There are tonnes of quirky "off-meta" champs that get played jungle in solo queue. Competitive will never see more than a core group of champs played regardless of those changes IMO. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On January 13 2018 03:39 JimmiC wrote: If any nunu buff goes through I will be a jungle Nunubot main next season! No hands life is the life for me. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On January 13 2018 03:37 Gahlo wrote: Makes me shudder at the thought of Nunu+Kayle or Nunu+Diana. Nashtor's Veigar baby. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
You keep that devil worship out of my ARAM, ya hear! | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 13 2018 04:16 AdsMoFro wrote: The biggest discrepancy in junglers in pro play has nothing to do with clear speed. It's dashes.Unless you mean standardizing clear speeds is done by removing dashes. I don't see a reason for having every champion jungle. Do you see Cass/Elise bot lanes? Or Trynd Mid? Unlike lanes, there is no true matchup in jungle. It's inherently a PVE based role. If you standardise the PVE part of the role you're removing a huge part of the role and of the champions that play that role. Elise wouldn't be nearly as special if every AP champ with a stun can play jungle and clear easily and quickly. Her spiders become worthless for the most part, no longer providing unique play and then all these AP stun champs will just crowd her out and she'll never see play again. Sure you might get Annie jungle, but you'll lose a lot of the other original junglers and you will lose many people in the role in my opinion. Maining jungle sucks. Your role gets chopped and changed so often and so stupidly (IMO) that it makes it hard to have an identity as a jungler. Which is kind of a plus in that it accommodates so many playstyles but essentially removing that PVE element removes the core identity of many champions. There are tonnes of quirky "off-meta" champs that get played jungle in solo queue. Competitive will never see more than a core group of champs played regardless of those changes IMO. If that is your approach to the jungle, and you are Riot, then stop selling me every year about how the changes are going to "promote diversity" or the like. Then rework the champs that currently have no place outside the jungle who do not fit the Elise-Lee-Jarvan paradigm. As an aside I think elise would be much cooler, generally, as a solo-laner where the enemy pruning her spider count was a key element of the character. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On January 13 2018 03:17 Ansibled wrote: They AP change seems weird to me because it creates a situation where you're not sure who is the best person to blood boil which seems like something Riot would be against. Obviously Azir and Kayle are the best people to bloodboil now Azir with that blood boil.. sheesh | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
There are at least 15 viable jungle champs right now with vastly different styles. You can basically pick AP/AD, tank/fighter/mage/assassin, and farming/ganking/inbetween and there is a viable champion that fits all three of those. I don't think any other role can do that. Maybe top / support. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
You can think that, but then you need to find me another, good way, to get Annie Jungle vs. Rammus Jungle vs. Tryndamere Jungle in LCS playoffs. You are asking Riot to completely rework their balancing philosophy. Not every champion is viable, or supposed to be, in every role. I personally don't care if Annie doesn't see jungle play, or even pro play, because by design she is supposed to be a noob friendly mage for people who start League. If that is your approach to the jungle, and you are Riot, then stop selling me every year about how the changes are going to "promote diversity" or the like. Then rework the champs that currently have no place outside the jungle who do not fit the Elise-Lee-Jarvan paradigm. Riot rotates champion meta. Champions are nerfed and buffed, items reworked, stuff falls out of meta, or becomes strong. Not all champions are a part of this cycle (like Annie, Garen) for other reasons, although they can still be played. And yes, some champions stay in the meta way too long, and that's either because Riot thinks they're still healthy balance-wise, or because they are popular champs. And again, it sounds like you think every champion should be able to jungle at least decently, which Riot has never tried to enforce, and honestly most players don't care about. I'd argue that getting a farming advantage should be premised on the choice to farm, so you can still achieve it. As I already said, people already select junglers almost purely on utility in pro play, they just select from a small pool that provides that, plus with the ability to clear. I don't get your argument. First you say that AFK farming junglers is a problem, now you say that farming should be a choice, where choosing to AFK farm is a viable method of play. Besides, I feel like that is the current state of the game. If Master Yi is able to both farm and gets good ganks off, then the enemy team is to blame, he's not a good ganker and plenty of meta junglers dump on him. And if this were actually a viable way to play the game at higher elos, then we would be seeing it a lot more. Instead, the only Yi players past Diamond are OTP, who you might glimpse once every 100 games. There are at least 15 viable jungle champs right now with vastly different styles. You can basically pick AP/AD, tank/fighter/mage/assassin, and farming/ganking/inbetween and there is a viable champion that fits all three of those. I think mid has the most diversity, it's ADC that is always lacking, mostly because it's a niche role where champions have to be specifically designed to DPS AA, no other roles trickle over. And sometimes Riot decides to rework ADC into other roles (Graves, Corki, even Varus to a certain extent). | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I’ve thought this for a while but people are starting to play it now | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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