EPTOn March 04 2015 11:41 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
0-9-21 hybrid pen / armor / cdr or mr / hybrid pen?
0-9-21 hybrid pen / armor / cdr or mr / hybrid pen?
You want 21/9 on most champions since the offense tree is op and the 3% hp is nothing to sneeze at
[Patch 5.4] Wubwubwub General Discussion - Page 38
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101toss
3232 Posts
You want 21/9 on most champions since the offense tree is op and the 3% hp is nothing to sneeze at | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 04 2015 11:39 Kinie wrote: On average, how many games do you guys play where you think both sides did well and it was a fun, competative game through all stages of it, and whether you win or lose you can look back and say, "yeah, this was a good game?" I get maybe 1 out of 10 of those games in Bronze. I hope it gets higher in the higher ELOs. Edit: also, didn't realize it until I posted it, but yay 1k posts. Only took me like... 4 years. Depends really. I'd say that my games are often of the flavor where different lanes are doing the opposite. Like top might be carrying while bottom is getting shit on, or the opposite. There are plenty of stomps or just "even" games though. My last game I was getting stomped Mundo vs. Renekton top but the rest of the map went even and eventually I scaled up enough and our Jinx started going nuts, but thats not typical. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 04 2015 11:39 Kinie wrote: On average, how many games do you guys play where you think both sides did well and it was a fun, competative game through all stages of it, and whether you win or lose you can look back and say, "yeah, this was a good game?" I get maybe 1 out of 10 of those games in Bronze. I hope it gets higher in the higher ELOs. Edit: also, didn't realize it until I posted it, but yay 1k posts. Only took me like... 4 years. It doesn't get better at higher elos I'm afraid | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On March 04 2015 11:46 101toss wrote: You want 21/9 on most champions since the offense tree is op and the 3% hp is nothing to sneeze at even on supports? i run every jungle with 21-9 but usually various combinations of x/9/x for supports | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 04 2015 11:39 Kinie wrote: On average, how many games do you guys play where you think both sides did well and it was a fun, competative game through all stages of it, and whether you win or lose you can look back and say, "yeah, this was a good game?" I get maybe 1 out of 10 of those games in Bronze. I hope it gets higher in the higher ELOs. Edit: also, didn't realize it until I posted it, but yay 1k posts. Only took me like... 4 years. I get a lot more of those games in normals since there's more varied elo's, so you'll have dynamic map power asymmetry in midgame, which makes for wayyyy more interesting. Probably 5 out of 10 games in normals are pretty competitive. Ranked games are usually more snowbally, probably 2/10? | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 04 2015 12:19 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: even on supports? i run every jungle with 21-9 but usually various combinations of x/9/x for supports Depends on the champion. If you know me, I prefer choosing champions that all-in (aka the op supports), and for that 21 offense is mandatory. Since you'll likely be all-inning with sion, 21 offense is better. On a side note, I feel that brutalizer is really good on him and is worth delaying a tanky item for. If you pick some disengager like janna, 21 offense is worse. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
And when I say proof I mean math. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 04 2015 13:09 Ketara wrote: I'd love to see some proof of why 21 offense is by default better than other mastery setups on sion. And when I say proof I mean math. math doesnt kill champions Real talk tho, the mastery gold isn't worth it compared to the increased killling power you get. 21 utility is for bitch champions that just disengage and don't kill champions. As sion, you're going to spam e until you can all-in them or force them b. Champions like karma are poke champions, not bruisers that dive and shit. When you go in for the kill, you need to get the kill, so there's no reason not to take 21 offense. Give me math telling me why 21 utility is better for support sion. Hint: you can't. These math discussions are dumb, and even if I bothered to do it, you'd throw it out since you're predisposed to choose 21 utility regardless of what the math comes out to. If you want to run 21 utility I don't care, it's your game. Just know you're playing suboptimally. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
lets look at the offensive mastery stuff. AP STUFF useless 0 gold value %pen mostly useless since you are fighting in bot lane and vs squishies all game 3% damage good executioner good 2x edge sword good +6% damage roughly total since you dont build damage just compare it 6-7% more ehp cdr good 5% ==175 gold or so ad meh, you have some ratios though so just even gold value it with a longsword attack speed meh, think you get a lot for free at passive both alright though, can estimate the gold value if you expect to melee some theres little of value in 21 utility why wouldn't you go 9/21 wtf? | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 04 2015 13:53 Slayer91 wrote: math doesnt kill champions its just when you calculate up all your damage that you deal and its higher than the enemies hp they happen to die lets look at the offensive mastery stuff. AP STUFF useless 0 gold value %pen mostly useless since you are fighting in bot lane and vs squishies all game 3% damage good executioner good 2x edge sword good +6% damage roughly total since you dont build damage just compare it 6-7% more ehp cdr good 5% ==175 gold or so ad meh, you have some ratios though so just even gold value it with a longsword attack speed meh, think you get a lot for free at passive both alright though, can estimate the gold value if you expect to melee some theres little of value in 21 utility why wouldn't you go 9/21 wtf? The reason I feel 21 offense is better is because I buy brutalizer (added value to damage) and Sion doesn't have too much issue about getting kited (outside of passive) or dying due to his kit and stats. The other reason I think 21 offense is better is that the primary issue isn't being squishy and dying (you just poke with e until they are low), but rather you don't do enough damage to kill them fast enough. 21 defense definitely isn't bad since you last longer in fights among other things, so if you go full tank it's probably better, but for my aggressive playstyle I choose offense. Idk, legendary guardian, reinforced armor, etc. are all good but I think executioner and 3% damage are better (dangerous game is also incredibly strong). The 6% hybrid pen isn't too bad either since it scales kinda well due to Sion's high base damages and %hp damage on shield if you can get it off and passive, and ignoring around 2.5mr/armor early game isn't terrible (also better vs tanky champs like leona). Expose weakness applies to both your own and your teammates damage so there's also more value there (if you only go 9 offense and take EW you can't get the 4 flat ad). I guess if you choose to be more passive in lane, then yeah go take 9/21. But yeah 21 defense is way better than utility which makes zero sense to use. Negligible gold income, mana, and movespeed out of combat lol | ||
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
On March 04 2015 14:21 101toss wrote: The reason I feel 21 offense is better is because I buy brutalizer (added value to damage) and Sion doesn't have too much issue about getting kited (outside of passive) or dying due to his kit and stats. The other reason I think 21 offense is better is that the primary issue isn't being squishy and dying (you just poke with e until they are low), but rather you don't do enough damage to kill them fast enough. 21 defense definitely isn't bad since you last longer in fights among other things, so if you go full tank it's probably better, but for my aggressive playstyle I choose offense. Idk, legendary guardian, reinforced armor, etc. are all good but I think executioner and 3% damage are better (dangerous game is also incredibly strong). The 6% hybrid pen isn't too bad either since it scales kinda well due to Sion's high base damages and %hp damage on shield if you can get it off and passive, and ignoring around 2.5mr/armor early game isn't terrible (also better vs tanky champs like leona). Expose weakness applies to both your own and your teammates damage so there's also more value there (if you only go 9 offense and take EW you can't get the 4 flat ad). I guess if you choose to be more passive in lane, then yeah go take 9/21. But yeah 21 defense is way better than utility which makes zero sense to use. Negligible gold income, mana, and movespeed out of combat lol Exposed Weakness hasn't worked on yourself in a while now. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 04 2015 14:37 Ethelis wrote: Exposed Weakness hasn't worked on yourself in a while now. Yes, but having good mechanics always works. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
21/9 is probably a bit better in lane if you're going to all in them i suppose | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 04 2015 14:37 Ethelis wrote: Exposed Weakness hasn't worked on yourself in a while now. Fuck, probably should stop using it on tryndamere top now Was it a ninja nerf or something because I never saw a patch for this | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On March 04 2015 14:57 Ketara wrote: It was an undocumented change, were not sure when. Season 5. | ||
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
On March 04 2015 15:03 739 wrote: After I finished spamming support Vel'koz games in S4, I fall in love with support Brand atm, damn, bitch hits so hard but E+Q combo sometimes hard to land. Yeah I was surprised about how much damage Brand can do. It's insane! I got first hand experience in the good ol' Darius versus Brand lane. It was a tough lane. | ||
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