[Patch 5.4] Wubwubwub General Discussion - Page 22

On February 28 2015 10:09 Ansibled wrote:
Early S3 as in stack cleavers? Not the era I would be looking to for the best state of the game.

On February 28 2015 12:51 Purge wrote:
The patch has been live for 3 days and the outcry has been outrageous. Even moreso when you remember that literally all of those changes are for competitive and barely affect the other 99% in any discernable way. Outside of maybe the Veigar changes, the backlash has been completely out of line.

Their are still tank junglers who sit in the top 5 winrate % just like they have for months now. People are just being willfully ignorant.

On February 28 2015 13:15 Gahlo wrote:

Sorry the recent patch sucks ass, don't know what to tell you.

On February 28 2015 13:01 Purge wrote:
It just annoys me that people just shit on Riot constantly here and turn these threads into boring circlejerks about balance. No insight, no strategic thinking, no observations on meta picks or even linking to their replays where they pulled off some wacky shit. I wanted to come to TL because you guys are supposed to actually be the clever strategy forum, instead I find it can turn into a more cliquey form of Reddit who come off as pretentious.

Realtalk.

The jungle is just the latest example

On February 28 2015 13:33 sob3k wrote:
Lol, I tried the new veigar.

Holy fucking shit

His kit....does not function...at...all

I honestly haven't the faintest idea how they could put this out on live seriously, its like a joke. The only possible reason I can think of is that they basically didn't like his entire concept, so they are intentionally eveynn-ing him to remove him from the game. This makes their statement about this pretty insulting, as they present him as a valid rework.

1. His new Q is at most barely a buff. Its still not long enough to actually use safely, and now people can actually dodge it, which is really really fucking bad. Its clunky and the hitbox doesn't match the visual in the slightest. Not to mention it tends to fuck up the wave and push/ruin last hits.

2. His stun is...a fucking joke. You will never catch anyone on the edge even without a dash, and only a fucking idiot is going to run into it it. Its unbelievably terrible and completely worthless in lane for either offense or defense. They basically took away his stun and gave him an .75 second delayed anivia wall. Good luck with that.

3. Without stun you will never land W, ever. Its completely worthless except to push the wave, which denies you AP farm and will result in you dying instantly in any gank because you have literally no defensive ability and no mobility.

4. His combo is totally broken awkward on the extremely unlikely event you do manage to get anyone stunned. You have to manually walk up to them to even hit Q. Because if you try to do a fast combo your Q won't reach them, this wastes even more stun time, allowing them to just walk out. If they have any dash or flash they can now use it as the stun wear off and dodge both your W and Q. If you catch someone at long range they can literally walk out of your Q. And this is all supposing they actually decide of their own free will to walk into the stun and allow you to land your W, when they can just turn around and kill you.


5. After this completely comprehensive beatdown they gave his entire kit, plus removal of DFG, they also decided to just take .2 off his ult...just as a parting fuck you.

He is literally unplayable. Fuck you Riot. The fact that they talked about him being one of the champions hardest hit by the DFG removal, plus the fact that he was barely sort of viable to begin with, and then do this to him. I don't even understand. There is no way shape or form anyone could play this and not interpret it as crippling nerf.

On February 28 2015 13:44 Purge wrote:


.... Ok. And starting a shitstorm on Reddit around jungle changes that were already coming and about specific jungle item changes that literally dont affect you was totally called for. About a patch that has been out for 3 fucking days. Or how bout you actually play all those tank junglers who you went off about? Sej still has a top 20% win rate in every Elo and outscales Vi in winrate as with less games in Diamond in KR. Like its not even justified what you are saying - if you dont like Vi/J4/Lee play something else, you can in fact win with other junglers. Its not professional metagame.

Anyway im not even going to go further down this rabbit hole, because guess what, Riot released their clearly iterated jungle change designed to help optimize jungle early game for tanks, and then the majority of the tank junglers within 3 days of your post and the patch hitting live so Im not not even sure that anything needs to be said. I hope you dont mind the taste of your foot in your mouth.

On February 28 2015 13:33 sob3k wrote:
Lol, I tried the new veigar.

Holy fucking shit

His kit....does not function...at...all

I honestly haven't the faintest idea how they could put this out on live seriously, its like a joke. The only possible reason I can think of is that they basically didn't like his entire concept, so they are intentionally eveynn-ing him to remove him from the game. This makes their statement about this pretty insulting, as they present him as a valid rework.

1. His new Q is at most barely a buff. Its still not long enough to actually use safely, and now people can actually dodge it, which is really really fucking bad. Its clunky and the hitbox doesn't match the visual in the slightest. Not to mention it tends to fuck up the wave and push/ruin last hits.

2. His stun is...a fucking joke. You will never catch anyone on the edge even without a dash, and only a fucking idiot is going to run into it it. Its unbelievably terrible and completely worthless in lane for either offense or defense. They basically took away his stun and gave him an .75 second delayed anivia wall. Good luck with that.

3. Without stun you will never land W, ever. Its completely worthless except to push the wave, which denies you AP farm and will result in you dying instantly in any gank because you have literally no defensive ability and no mobility.

4. His combo is totally broken awkward on the extremely unlikely event you do manage to get anyone stunned. You have to manually walk up to them to even hit Q. Because if you try to do a fast combo your Q won't reach them, this wastes even more stun time, allowing them to just walk out. If they have any dash or flash they can now use it as the stun wear off and dodge both your W and Q. If you catch someone at long range they can literally walk out of your Q. And this is all supposing they actually decide of their own free will to walk into the stun and allow you to land your W, when they can just turn around and kill you.


5. After this completely comprehensive beatdown they gave his entire kit, plus removal of DFG, they also decided to just take .2 off his ult...just as a parting fuck you.

He is literally unplayable. Fuck you Riot. The fact that they talked about him being one of the champions hardest hit by the DFG removal, plus the fact that he was barely sort of viable to begin with, and then do this to him. I don't even understand. There is no way shape or form anyone could play this and not interpret it as crippling nerf.

On February 28 2015 13:44 Purge wrote:


.... Ok. And starting a shitstorm on Reddit around jungle changes that were already coming and about specific jungle item changes that literally dont affect you was totally called for. About a patch that has been out for 3 fucking days. Or how bout you actually play all those tank junglers who you went off about? Sej still has a top 20% win rate in every Elo and outscales Vi in winrate as with less games in Diamond in KR. Like its not even justified what you are saying - if you dont like Vi/J4/Lee play something else, you can in fact win with other junglers. Its not professional metagame.

Anyway im not even going to go further down this rabbit hole, because guess what, Riot released their clearly iterated jungle change designed to help optimize jungle early game for tanks, and then the majority of the tank junglers within 3 days of your post and the patch hitting live so Im not not even sure that anything needs to be said. I hope you dont mind the taste of your foot in your mouth.

On February 28 2015 13:49 Ansibled wrote:


So you don't think Urgot can be played in place of an AD Carry and should instead go top? I mean Corki isn't really an AD Carry either but gets played in that position. (ADCs don't do 50% magic damage imo). How much do you think the shield buff will help him out?

On February 28 2015 13:52 AsmodeusXI wrote:


I like how you think Gahlo has any control over Reddit. I also like how you don't think this perspective on Riot's balancing approach is a legitimate criticism even though it is incredibly characteristic of most of the changes they make.

Also, like most voluntary actions, if you don't like reading these forums, feel free to not do it. Either way you could probably do without being a jerk, especially when the person you're insulting wasn't trying to start shit.

On February 28 2015 14:05 PrinceXizor wrote:

nonono. If you look at the positions of the team where 1st position is where most of your farm is concentrated and 5th is where the least farm is concentrated, urgot seems to occupy the third slot best. while ADCs occupy the 1st or 2nd typically with mid occupying the other one.

This makes fitting him into a standard team format a bit odd. because not only would you need to pick a team that has a primary farming mid champion, like is relatively well used in current play, but you'd have to assign another role to 2nd position. Typically top occupies the third position, because they get sololane farm, but often become removed from that farm through either lane swaps, or being needed to respond with teleport ganks/dragon plays ect, and later in the game, they rarely are wave clear specialists, so their farm begins to fall behind there as well as mid or adc takes much of the farm in pushing or anti siege play.

For urgot to be in a position that benefits your team most, your top lane and your mid lane would likely need to be higher farm priority than is standard. for instance, a zed mid and lissandra top, so that both of those champions can eat up farm while urgot can sit and defer his farm to them as the game goes further, only needing couple core items to hit his peak.

Those sorts of compositions are more common now than they were in seasons past, but still are relatively new, and teams have to be wary of having too much magic damage from those positions as urgot's physical damage understandably is going to be dropping off since he won't be gobbling up farm as much as a kalista tristana or caitlyn would. It also puts some stress on the jungle position to be able to do a lot with only moderate farm. without a 3rd position top champion like maokai to help fulfill tank-ish and initiation/peel roles the jungle position is stressed to do more with the same resources.

I feel like most of this is a consequence of how the map is played and itemization possibilities than with urgots kit or stats, so he's rarely going to be a strong pick, because he relies on so many other roles being able to do things. and if you are relying on other roles to do things, there is less incentive to pick urgot, unless that strategy is overwhelmingly superior. He's very strong at his niche, but his niche is a side-grade from standard in that it has different structure of when your team is strong and when its weak, and stresses different players on your team, but its not superior or inferior.

Rather than going through all that, people find 80% (random number don't quote me on that), of urgots potential just playing him in the role that naturally makes him end up in third position, rather than altering a team strategy for it.

as for the shield buff, it'll be nice its a large enough number to make his power spike stronger, but he's not going to be rolling out his own red carpet or anything.

On February 28 2015 14:15 Purge wrote:

Oh you have an Urgot Flair. Cool.

what would you think about running urgot with a carry jungler? Wouldnt he Synergize really well with Yi and I dunno, Maokai and a control bot lane?