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As of page 44, no more placement QQ in GD.
Ty,
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edit: disclaimer I'm not saying Ashe is strong, but I do play Ashe a lot and enjoy it
On January 17 2015 08:04 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 07:55 JonGalt wrote:
I should mention. I don't want to main Ashe. I don't want to play ADC. Or Support. Anything to do with the duo lane, I want none of it. I only picked Ashe as my ADC because even if I suck at the very least I can arrow and help kinda haha.
I am trying to main the solo lane with Diana. That's pretty much the only reason anyone should pick Ashe tbh.
To be fair this is actually a really good reason.
I do disagree that Cait and Lucian are good picks for people who don't play ADC. A lot of their strength is in their independence, which does make them easy to learn with since you can often ignore lane/team composition and whatnot (to some degree, obviously not completely), but they can definitely be very useless if you don't know what you're doing. Meanwhile Ashe is still useful as long as you have the general mechanics and gamesense to land ults.
On January 17 2015 08:14 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Depends on the tank.
Eg. Mundo is good for Ashe, but Maokai is terrible for Ashe.
Biggest thing this patch is that Ashe will be going PD instead of Shiv, which means she loses out on auto-shiv crit at a fight start. It's a pretty major piece of burst.
Unless I'm reading this backwards, I disagree with you completely regarding Mundo. Mundo is very difficult-to-impossible for Ashe to deal with. Mundo's engaging tool, a speedboost over 12 seconds, will outlast Ashe's stun by a long-shot. This makes Mundo more difficult to keep distance from compared to say Shyvana who has a single CC-interruptable engaging tool. Ashe doesn't have the tools to avoid consistent low-CD re-applying slows either, such as Mundo cleavers or Olaf axes.
As a side-note I find Wukong the most difficult to deal with overall, but this isn't an Ashe-specific problem for me.
I don't think Ashe will get PD instead of Shiv. Yes, PD got buffed and IE got nerfed, meaning that IE/PD has 10 crit% more over IE/Shiv than it used to, 15% total (40 vs 55). I don't think the 10% crit different will make the difference, although this is definitely a nerf to Ashe relative to other ADCs.
Shiv critting is +200 damage before resistances. At, say, 200 AD, 40% crit is on average +80 damage per auto, whereas 55% crit is on average +110 damage per auto, a difference of 30 damage per auto favouring PD. The first attack is a crit for both builds, so an Ashe with PD has to attack about 8 times to pull ahead in damage. Assuming you wiggle at all, Shiv will be charged again at this point. If it crits the 2nd time then PD doesn't pull ahead. If it doesn't crit the 2nd time then PD pulls ahead after 3 more autos. Obviously this is all "on average" which is a shitty way to quantify crit damage, but I think this generally shows that PD doesn't really outdamage Shiv until a decent way into a fight, and even then it's by a small margin. I'd rather take the AoE and earlier powerspike.
On January 17 2015 09:21 Lord Tolkien wrote:
The game I'm thinking of specifically involved both of us being fed out the wazoo. All Zed needed to do was dive and kill me and they'd win teamfights. Team can't do shit about it, I had a QSS, still didn't matter, etc.
But anyways the point is she sucks vs certain enemy team comps and is suboptimal if there isn't allied team comp synergy.
I'd rather get a GA vs Zed. If I get dived and either miss my ult or it isn't enough to get me a kill, then Zed will probably kill me regardless of a QSS or not. That said, Ashe ult is typically enough to pop a Zed if you're near any other damage source. If you do get caught out, Ashe ult is not enough to escape Zed given that your stun will be melee (only 1s iirc) and deathmark / botrk last for 3 seconds. Maybe with Alacrity and QSS, I guess? I don't like bothering with the QSS style response because it's never worked out for me vs Zed.
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So I've been testing the new eve changes, and I feel like AP eve is quite playable again.
Something like Magus --> Lich Bane --> Zhonya. New E proccing lich bane adds a lot to your burst (and means that you don't necessarily have to get quite as close to your targets).
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Damn that would be really good for all them tanks.
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It makes sense since every other low tier defensive item builds into its mid tier cousin.
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I need to remind myself to NOT build FIVE active items on a support. Too many buttons...
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Because you need to build 6. Duh. Live the dream
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So supposedly there's a bug (or feature?) on PBE with Riven's Q.
Basically it seems to be that Q is auto-cancelling itself, meaning you get the AA passive damage near-instantly after every Q.
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Seems intentional.
I am pretty meh with it. It decreases Riven's skillcap, but that's whatever from my perspective.
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Riven is going to be a terror in low ELO if those players can now realize her true damage potential
wouldn't be my choice to change it but Riot has made far more egregious choices than this.
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On January 17 2015 12:02 Sufficiency wrote:
Seems intentional.
I am pretty meh with it. It decreases Riven's skillcap, but that's whatever from my perspective.
I can't tell from the animation in the gifs provided, nor do we see her AS (maybe she's still weaving in AA per Q with insane AS), but this just seems like a terrible idea. It's literally free damage that you otherwise had to work for, which gave the opponent room to counterplay/run. It also means you can't build Runic Blade stacks as easy (which you never purposefully did 99% of the time, but still).
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On January 17 2015 12:17 Slusher wrote:
Riven is going to be a terror in low ELO if those players can now realize her true damage potential
wouldn't be my choice to change it but Riot has made far more egregious choices than this.
I think you are right.
league_tier | count | winrate
-------------+-------+------------------------
Bronze | 7763 | 0.46232126755120443128
Silver | 17646 | 0.49149948996939816389
Gold | 37855 | 0.50220578523312640338
Platinum | 39926 | 0.51978660521965636427
Diamond | 13595 | 0.52556086796616403089
Master | 849 | 0.55712603062426383981
Challenger | 189 | 0.56084656084656084656
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On January 17 2015 11:52 Kinie wrote:
So supposedly there's a bug (or feature?) on PBE with Riven's Q.
Basically it seems to be that Q is auto-cancelling itself, meaning you get the AA passive damage near-instantly after every Q.
Pretty late on that. 
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I'm more worried this is just a setup to nerf Riven more as it lowers the skillcap on Riven, meaning all the new Rivens will raise the winrate now that they don't need to learn animation cancellation on the Q.
I hate the change and yes it definitely seems intentional.
I don't even play Riven.
Judging by reddit's responses it seems like a lot of people aren't liking the change, but since their complaints have never stopped things like jungle timers from being implemented, it probably won't stop this either. I think the only way to change Riot's balance decisions is to have people threaten to quit if changes go through.
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On January 17 2015 12:24 obesechicken13 wrote:
I'm more worried this is just a setup to nerf Riven more as it lowers the skillcap on Riven, meaning all the new Rivens will raise the winrate now that they don't need to learn animation cancellation on the Q.
I hate the change and yes it definitely seems intentional.
I don't even play Riven.
yea this is kinda where my low ELO point was headed, she already wins games at low ELO, if they can do her full damage combo correctly her winrate is going to get into too hard to ignore territory
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On January 17 2015 12:24 obesechicken13 wrote:
I'm more worried this is just a setup to nerf Riven more as it lowers the skillcap on Riven, meaning all the new Rivens will raise the winrate now that they don't need to learn animation cancellation on the Q.
I hate the change and yes it definitely seems intentional.
I don't even play Riven.
There is no way that this will go live.
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lol I dont have to A click after using Q for riven now?? i mean PBE
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On January 17 2015 09:28 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 07:49 wei2coolman wrote:On January 17 2015 07:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I enjoy playing Ashe a lot and I think she's one of my best ADCs but I doubt she'll ever become relevant as a competitive meta ADC again without major overhauls to her specifically or the game in general. Which is a shame. Or unless there exists a support that has so much disengage that can make Ashe relevant again (zyra buffs when?) Indeed, if only there were some high peel support who was also strong at the moment. Maybe this support could have a linear pass through knockup, a targeted slow, an AoE speed up passve, and he or she can put a shield on a target to give them HP and AD. Then her ultimate could be a massive knock away and heal over time and they can have an item that gives you attack speed when you shield someone so that you can utilizes Ashe's high base attack speed. A champion like that being good would make Ashe really strong, its a shame one doesn't exist.
Yeah, if only there wasn't a champion called Graves that abused Janna's kit even harder. Or even Sivir with Janna is pretty bonkers too.
The problem with picking Janna for Ashe, is you're using a champion to compensate for a mediocre damage threat's inability to self peel. As opposed to enhancing the actual strength of another champion.
EDIT: I like Ashe. I like the epic arrows. But, I also hate playing against the current FotM. Zed, Leblanc, etc.
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Or Ashe is just mediocre...
He Q slow needs to be increased substantially at all levels to justify her other weaknesses at the moment.
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On January 17 2015 12:53 cLutZ wrote:
Or Ashe is just mediocre...
He Q slow needs to be increased substantially at all levels to justify her other weaknesses at the moment.
Or make her E more combat relevant.
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EPT
