EPT[Patch 5.1] Season 5 General Discussion - Page 15
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As of page 44, no more placement QQ in GD. Ty, Neo | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On January 17 2015 08:04 obesechicken13 wrote: Ashe isn't terrible. It's not like everytime someone picks an ashe I facepalm and think I have a lower win chance like urgot. Well if the enemy team is like Zed, Maokai, Lee Sin, Graves, and Leona (or at least 1/2 of them fed), and your team has no decent peel then uh, maybe. Most likely. All of these things are currently FotM or so I've heard. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
Eg. Mundo is good for Ashe, but Maokai is terrible for Ashe. Biggest thing this patch is that Ashe will be going PD instead of Shiv, which means she loses out on auto-shiv crit at a fight start. It's a pretty major piece of burst. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
As for Zed, well, I am convinced that unless you are on top of the ladder, there are no good Zeds. I have had a lot of success against Zed as Ashe - usually involves a SotD build to try to kill him faster than he can kill me (I still need my support to help me, of course). Obviously this is just anecdotal and SotD is no longer in the game, but it's not something that I historically struggled with. I think some of her bigger enemies are Leona (in lane) and reliable initiators like Vi and J4. | ||
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droserin
127 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
1) SOTD on Ashe... 2) I've played games as a fed Ashe. There was literally nothing I could do vs a Fed Zed that could 100-0 me in 1 second if my flash is on CD. There are good Zed players, and any assassin with major hard engage will wreck Ashe because no mobility. 3) Yes, hard initiation is the issue, and the current meta involves lots of hard initiation. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 17 2015 08:04 Lord Tolkien wrote: As someone who has played Ashe and is largely an ADC main: Play fucking Caitlyn or Lucian if you need to ADC. Easy, safeish, scales evenly, matchups are largely similar. Ashe isn't shit as some of you guys are convinced of, but she does have a tendency to get hard-countered if there's shit like a Zed or somesuch on the enemy team. And requires finesse. Also only thrives in lane with specific supports and matchups (shit like Lucian/Graves will ruin your day). Niche pick overall. As a guy who supports mostly, don't play Cait. Play Lucian. The guy who picks Cait that wanted to top/mid/etc is mostly useless. She needs to lane well to transition well, and is really AA reliant the whole game. If you don't like or own Lucian, the picks I like the ADC to play if they aren't into ADC are Corki and Graves. They win trades that you set up, in lane and clear well so you rarely get too shut down in CS. Plus, Corki can poke a lot, and Graves can just QWR and has basically contributed decently to a skirmish or teamfight. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On January 17 2015 08:38 Lord Tolkien wrote: @ Sufficiency: 1) SOTD on Ashe... 2) I've played games as a fed Ashe. There was literally nothing I could do vs a Fed Zed that could 100-0 me in 1 second if my flash is on CD. There are good Zed players, and any assassin with major hard engage will wreck Ashe because no mobility. 3) Yes, hard initiation is the issue, and the current meta involves lots of hard initiation. Well, first of all, if Zed can R you in a teamfight, kill you, then get out by himself while your support is with you, either you got caught (your fault) or your support is too heavy (someone else's fault). In cases which the opposing team has a Zed and something else (Mao and Vi in particular), I think you absolutely need to recognize that you can't go in until the initiation is done on someone else. You are Ashe, not Ezreal. Keep 600+ distance to your mid laner, wait until your mid laner gets initiated on, then go in. It's pretty silly but I think this is the most optimal strategy in most situationa. This actually brings up a related point which IMO hurts Ashe quite a bit. I find it very difficult to play Ashe with a melee mid laner who can't kite with me. Fizz in particular feels like a really bad combination with Ashe despite some good synergy with arrow + fish. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
But anyways the point is she sucks vs certain enemy team comps and is suboptimal if there isn't allied team comp synergy. | ||
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Graves, Ashe, Corki, Ez, Sivir, Tristana. I almost never have to ADC though. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On January 17 2015 06:16 -Frog- wrote: i'll reiterate that she is 100% viable, but she doesn't do plenty of damage. if you compare the base damage and scaling on her abilities to graves: ashe: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ashe graves:http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Graves you can't really compare them, graves has much higher burst than ashe. on top of that ashe doesn't have any steroids, so not only does graves have more burst but he has more sustained damage as well thanks to his E. i'd say ashe is in the bottom tier of adcs damage wise even if her utility is amazing. Ashe has the highest level 18 non-steroid attack speed in the game. Her auto crit is a significant steroid, the only problem of which is that it does nothing 50% of the time. (I.E. if the enemy crits on their first attack), but otherwise is a significant damage boost that other AD's, even with their higher DOT will not likely overcome in short fights. (and if they ever fixed fucking crit it would be all the time) Her base attack is .658 the highest of all AD's except twitch, which means that she scales well with attack speed items and ancillary boosts. Her advantage is not at 2 items, but rather at 3+ items when the ability damage of other AD's starts to fall off, and the power of a 600 damage 3 second stun and auto-crit starts to shine. Her downsides are no mobility, the lowest base speed in the game, and a shitty AA animation (compared to most AD's even after the tweaks), and a passive that does nothing 50% of the time. But not damage. What you really want to know is this. Does Ashe win games? Ashe is the highest weekly win rate ADC in Platinum and the second highest in Diamond according to lolking(third monthly in plat and diamond, behind Jinx and Sivir)*. So yes. Ashe is a perfectly fine ADC who does plenty of damage *tend to ignore challenger because there aren't enough games and because the dynamics of play are really strange up there On January 17 2015 07:49 wei2coolman wrote: Or unless there exists a support that has so much disengage that can make Ashe relevant again (zyra buffs when?) Indeed, if only there were some high peel support who was also strong at the moment. Maybe this support could have a linear pass through knockup, a targeted slow, an AoE speed up passve, and he or she can put a shield on a target to give them HP and AD. Then her ultimate could be a massive knock away and heal over time and they can have an item that gives you attack speed when you shield someone so that you can utilizes Ashe's high base attack speed. A champion like that being good would make Ashe really strong, its a shame one doesn't exist. User was warned for this post | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On January 17 2015 09:21 Lord Tolkien wrote: The game I'm thinking of specifically involved both of us being fed out the wazoo. All Zed needed to do was dive and kill me and they'd win teamfights. Team can't do shit about it, I had a QSS, still didn't matter, etc. But anyways the point is she sucks vs certain enemy team comps and is suboptimal if there isn't allied team comp synergy. Sorry I don't recall that game at all. But then again we always lose when we play together so it's hard to recall which game it was  | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
I do feel that Graves' auto windup is actually slower than Ashe's. Just a gutty feeling. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On January 17 2015 09:36 Alaric wrote: Frankly I'd rather have Ashe's auto animation than, say, Graves' or Sivir's. These are really easy to cancel by mistake when kiting, and the point at which the frontswing ends (when the projectile goes off) is harder to make out and get used to than something smooth like Ashe's. Sivir's is bad. But graves is a lot better. Its the time of the front swing animation that really gets it. Graves is super fast. Ashe is not. The slowness of Ashe's front swing can make it harder to kite with her, even with her slow, than someone who doesn't have that disadvantage. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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