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On August 13 2013 05:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:51 Jerubaal wrote:On August 13 2013 01:27 wei2coolman wrote:I don't think there is a single syndra main on TL.The most basic way I can think of Syndra to deal with Fizz is running Flat MR runes, and 14/16 masteries. Try opening up with early Chalice (the early mr will help tons). Also try to abuse his E cooldowns. He needs his E to farm the lane quickly, so the second you see him use his E, try and all-in or force him out of lane. Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in. Don't open up Null Magic Mantle, that's just bad. Fizz's timing, like most assassins is usually level 4 and level 6. You can just open up farie charms, and get the NMM later in the chalice build. What about that mega troll guy who only goes syndra mid or jungle every game. That's the OP
Oh lol.
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On August 13 2013 00:53 XilDarkz wrote:
So, I have been trying to find a solution. So far, I have posted in three different threads repeatedly seeking aide, and I think at this point, it is far unsolved that its own thread is warranted.
I have been unable to win against Fizz as Syndra. Period. At all. I have tried a wealth of different strategies and yet, nothing has worked. I have not been able to find any VODs of a Syndra player beating a Fizz.
Strategies Tried:
1.) All-In Level 1
Go full AD and AA all-in and Flash+Ignite on him. Lose horribly.
2.) Level 1 Harass
Go full AP, Doran's Ring, and spam spells on him until he dies. Flash + Ignite. Lose horribly.
3.) Standard.
Go standard AP, harass/farm. Lose horribly.
4.) Super-defensive-farm
Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in.
syndra vs fizz is really easy. I main fizz and can't even beat a half decent syndra. You should run ad reds or hybrid pen reds, ap quints, armor yellows and mr blues. 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 if you are really confident. start with flask 3 hp pots. lvl 1 just auto then q and auto again everytime he tries to last hit a creep. take your stun lvl 2. continue this process. If he gets a w/q on you lvl 2 push him away with ur stun auto q auto. continue to harass him. by level 3 you should have a nice hp advantage on him. save your stun/knockback for after his jump. You should be winning in farm nicely. Just keep qing him everytime he tries to last hit a creep lvl 3 and up. After lvl 3 if he gets a w/q on you make sure to use your slow on him so he can't get more than 1-2 autos off. If he goes to jump after this wait for the jump to end and then stun him auto q auto. anytime he uses his jump to avoid a q it means you can zone him from cs for a period of time.
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On August 13 2013 09:59 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 00:53 XilDarkz wrote:
So, I have been trying to find a solution. So far, I have posted in three different threads repeatedly seeking aide, and I think at this point, it is far unsolved that its own thread is warranted.
I have been unable to win against Fizz as Syndra. Period. At all. I have tried a wealth of different strategies and yet, nothing has worked. I have not been able to find any VODs of a Syndra player beating a Fizz.
Strategies Tried:
1.) All-In Level 1
Go full AD and AA all-in and Flash+Ignite on him. Lose horribly.
2.) Level 1 Harass
Go full AP, Doran's Ring, and spam spells on him until he dies. Flash + Ignite. Lose horribly.
3.) Standard.
Go standard AP, harass/farm. Lose horribly.
4.) Super-defensive-farm
Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in. syndra vs fizz is really easy. I main fizz and can't even beat a half decent syndra. You should run ad reds or hybrid pen reds, ap quints, armor yellows and mr blues. 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 if you are really confident. start with flask 3 hp pots. lvl 1 just auto then q and auto again everytime he tries to last hit a creep. take your stun lvl 2. continue this process. If he gets a w/q on you lvl 2 push him away with ur stun auto q auto. continue to harass him. by level 3 you should have a nice hp advantage on him. save your stun/knockback for after his jump. You should be winning in farm nicely. Just keep qing him everytime he tries to last hit a creep lvl 3 and up. After lvl 3 if he gets a w/q on you make sure to use your slow on him so he can't get more than 1-2 autos off. If he goes to jump after this wait for the jump to end and then stun him auto q auto. anytime he uses his jump to avoid a q it means you can zone him from cs for a period of time.
If it were that easy to beat fizz as a skillshot dependant champion I think fizz wouldn't see so much success.
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On August 13 2013 10:07 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 09:59 ReachTheSky wrote:On August 13 2013 00:53 XilDarkz wrote:
So, I have been trying to find a solution. So far, I have posted in three different threads repeatedly seeking aide, and I think at this point, it is far unsolved that its own thread is warranted.
I have been unable to win against Fizz as Syndra. Period. At all. I have tried a wealth of different strategies and yet, nothing has worked. I have not been able to find any VODs of a Syndra player beating a Fizz.
Strategies Tried:
1.) All-In Level 1
Go full AD and AA all-in and Flash+Ignite on him. Lose horribly.
2.) Level 1 Harass
Go full AP, Doran's Ring, and spam spells on him until he dies. Flash + Ignite. Lose horribly.
3.) Standard.
Go standard AP, harass/farm. Lose horribly.
4.) Super-defensive-farm
Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in. syndra vs fizz is really easy. I main fizz and can't even beat a half decent syndra. You should run ad reds or hybrid pen reds, ap quints, armor yellows and mr blues. 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 if you are really confident. start with flask 3 hp pots. lvl 1 just auto then q and auto again everytime he tries to last hit a creep. take your stun lvl 2. continue this process. If he gets a w/q on you lvl 2 push him away with ur stun auto q auto. continue to harass him. by level 3 you should have a nice hp advantage on him. save your stun/knockback for after his jump. You should be winning in farm nicely. Just keep qing him everytime he tries to last hit a creep lvl 3 and up. After lvl 3 if he gets a w/q on you make sure to use your slow on him so he can't get more than 1-2 autos off. If he goes to jump after this wait for the jump to end and then stun him auto q auto. anytime he uses his jump to avoid a q it means you can zone him from cs for a period of time. If it were that easy to beat fizz as a skillshot dependant champion I think fizz wouldn't see so much success.
I'm guessin you're talking about EU LCS? Fizz usually loses in CS out of lane, which is to be expected. Sometimes quite badly, that's simply the ranged/melee interaction in lane. However, Fizz is simply able to out roam anyone, mostly because his all-in potential is so strong, that if you follow him to countergank a sidelane, you're just going to end up feeding him a kill.
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On August 13 2013 09:59 ReachTheSky wrote:
syndra vs fizz is really easy. I main fizz and can't even beat a half decent syndra. You should run ad reds or hybrid pen reds, ap quints, armor yellows and mr blues. 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 if you are really confident. start with flask 3 hp pots. lvl 1 just auto then q and auto again everytime he tries to last hit a creep. take your stun lvl 2. continue this process. If he gets a w/q on you lvl 2 push him away with ur stun auto q auto. continue to harass him. by level 3 you should have a nice hp advantage on him. save your stun/knockback for after his jump. You should be winning in farm nicely. Just keep qing him everytime he tries to last hit a creep lvl 3 and up. After lvl 3 if he gets a w/q on you make sure to use your slow on him so he can't get more than 1-2 autos off. If he goes to jump after this wait for the jump to end and then stun him auto q auto. anytime he uses his jump to avoid a q it means you can zone him from cs for a period of time.
What league are you/Summoner name? I'd like to try some custom games with you if possible (just 1v1 Syndra Fizz)
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Run semi-defensive runes - your favorite aggressive marks and quints, Armor Yellows, MR blues.
21/9/0 or 17/13/0 (block spec) should both be fine.
At level 1, figure out what he skilled. If he took Q or E, he can jump but he doesn't have a lot of damage to follow it up. Aggressively harass him, if he jumps on you then quickly switch into kiting mode while still doing damage to him (he has no escape besides flash.) Your shit is on lower cooldown, use that to win. Remember he takes less damage from minions, so you can't trade with him if you're BOTH eating minion damage (honestly this is probably partly why you lost some allins vs. him) but if he's eating ranged minions while you aren't, you should be alright. I think.
If he skills W, then NEVER LET HIM MELEE YOU. Harass-kite aggressively, he has no gapcloser beyond flash. Don't let him touch creeps while you slowpush the wave. A single melee auto attack from activated-W is basically a full nuke + an auto. Pot to keep your health high, because his passive autoattack dot is X%Missing health.
Don't fall behind in exp in these early levels - I'm not sure how you would, you're ranged and he's melee and you have spammable aoe. I recommend slowpushing the wave rather than slamming it quickly into his tower, because a big creep wave means he can't really attack you. Even his Q draws ranged minion aggro.
At level 2 he either has a lot of damage and only 1 jump, or both jumps but shit damage. Probably the former. Again, a W-active auto HURTS LIKE FUCK. Repeated ones after that hurt a bit less because the DOT only reapplies, but they hurt.
Level 3-5, he gets his whole toolkit and here's where you have to be careful (hopefully you have harassed him well up til now) At this point, if he's not using E to escape, you should be able to maul him with skill combos. If he uses E to do anything (beware, he may dodge a Q and land on your face off his pole, this is rough to deal with.) you should stun him, harass him, but beware his QW engage.
At level 6+, beware the fish, but it's one of the easily-missed skillshots. Flashdodge the fish if you need to. Shove the wave hard but safely. He can skill E to shove back, but it's incredibly mana intensive and HEAVILY REQUIRES blue buff. (Contesting his blue buff may be fruitful, but don't get fishdunked when doing so.) Just try to keep him in your lane and not triple kill counterganking bot lane or something.
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Like every hard lane you need to punish the enemy champion as hard as you can on the levels you are stronger and play defensive when he is stronger.
For this match up in particular it's easy, you are a bit stronger the first level and get shat on the following 17 so yeah. What I do about the Fizz problem or any other problem is ignore it and hope it goes away.
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On August 13 2013 10:07 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 09:59 ReachTheSky wrote:On August 13 2013 00:53 XilDarkz wrote:
So, I have been trying to find a solution. So far, I have posted in three different threads repeatedly seeking aide, and I think at this point, it is far unsolved that its own thread is warranted.
I have been unable to win against Fizz as Syndra. Period. At all. I have tried a wealth of different strategies and yet, nothing has worked. I have not been able to find any VODs of a Syndra player beating a Fizz.
Strategies Tried:
1.) All-In Level 1
Go full AD and AA all-in and Flash+Ignite on him. Lose horribly.
2.) Level 1 Harass
Go full AP, Doran's Ring, and spam spells on him until he dies. Flash + Ignite. Lose horribly.
3.) Standard.
Go standard AP, harass/farm. Lose horribly.
4.) Super-defensive-farm
Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in. syndra vs fizz is really easy. I main fizz and can't even beat a half decent syndra. You should run ad reds or hybrid pen reds, ap quints, armor yellows and mr blues. 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 if you are really confident. start with flask 3 hp pots. lvl 1 just auto then q and auto again everytime he tries to last hit a creep. take your stun lvl 2. continue this process. If he gets a w/q on you lvl 2 push him away with ur stun auto q auto. continue to harass him. by level 3 you should have a nice hp advantage on him. save your stun/knockback for after his jump. You should be winning in farm nicely. Just keep qing him everytime he tries to last hit a creep lvl 3 and up. After lvl 3 if he gets a w/q on you make sure to use your slow on him so he can't get more than 1-2 autos off. If he goes to jump after this wait for the jump to end and then stun him auto q auto. anytime he uses his jump to avoid a q it means you can zone him from cs for a period of time. If it were that easy to beat fizz as a skillshot dependant champion I think fizz wouldn't see so much success.
A good syndra should always beat a good fizz. It's fairly straight forward from the get go. There just aren't that many good syndra players. She isn't exactly played that frequently.
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On August 13 2013 10:58 XilDarkz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 09:59 ReachTheSky wrote:
syndra vs fizz is really easy. I main fizz and can't even beat a half decent syndra. You should run ad reds or hybrid pen reds, ap quints, armor yellows and mr blues. 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 if you are really confident. start with flask 3 hp pots. lvl 1 just auto then q and auto again everytime he tries to last hit a creep. take your stun lvl 2. continue this process. If he gets a w/q on you lvl 2 push him away with ur stun auto q auto. continue to harass him. by level 3 you should have a nice hp advantage on him. save your stun/knockback for after his jump. You should be winning in farm nicely. Just keep qing him everytime he tries to last hit a creep lvl 3 and up. After lvl 3 if he gets a w/q on you make sure to use your slow on him so he can't get more than 1-2 autos off. If he goes to jump after this wait for the jump to end and then stun him auto q auto. anytime he uses his jump to avoid a q it means you can zone him from cs for a period of time. What league are you/Summoner name? I'd like to try some custom games with you if possible (just 1v1 Syndra Fizz)
Gold 2, eMgRoB is my summoner name.
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On August 13 2013 14:35 SagaZ wrote:
Like every hard lane you need to punish the enemy champion as hard as you can on the levels you are stronger and play defensive when he is stronger.
For this match up in particular it's easy, you are a bit stronger the first level and get shat on the following 17 so yeah. What I do about the Fizz problem or any other problem is ignore it and hope it goes away.
That's a worthwhile strategy.
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can i snowball on this topic and ask if there's any possible way for kassadin to ever beat/go even with fizz in lane? i've only ever lost that lane TERRIBLY, even with ganks. even when i'm ahead he just all-ins me and spams laugh as i die to ignite/DoT and he bounces away
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United States37500 Posts
You guys need to accept that there are some lanes that you can't win but you have to do your best to stay relevant for midgame. Treat it like you would a 1v2 swap. Now I'm not saying Fizz counters Syndra anywhere remotely to how he smashes Kass but there are counter picks for a reason.
I'm of the opinion that Syndra actually wins because I've seen really good Syndras but sylverfyre's post is damn solid.
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On August 13 2013 16:18 gtrsrs wrote:
can i snowball on this topic and ask if there's any possible way for kassadin to ever beat/go even with fizz in lane? i've only ever lost that lane TERRIBLY, even with ganks. even when i'm ahead he just all-ins me and spams laugh as i die to ignite/DoT and he bounces away
I'm pretty sure you can actually block Shark damage with Riftwalk if you practice the timing. Or you can use Riftwalk as soon as he uses playful, then QE him and you should have traded pretty well even if he QWautoed first.
I've only played this matchup 2-3 times but it seems like you can outplay him pretty hard if youre ready. Just play reactively andyou should win with the second move.
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from my experience, fizz literally never has to use playful until you use Q. he can be patient and wait for you to engage and will always win.
if you trade autos, or trade below 75% hp, he'll win with his W being much better than yours and his auto range being higher (i think? at least it feels higher)
if he uses Q on you you can counter with your own Q as he'll likely not be able to hit it, but your E has to be delayed in order to ensure that it hits him after his Q, so he gets a free auto and blocks your escape. post-6 it's not AS huge cause you can jump away but pre-6 that's how he all-ins
sure, if he ever initiates with playful i will win 100%, but i've never seen a decent fizz use playful to initiate. it's always used as a counter-aggression move to void sphere (blocks the damage, positions him to retailate).
i didn't know that about riftwalk and shark though. i will def try that next time (if i survive to 6 -_-)
a lot of my success with kass has come from just being more patient than the other guy and winning after they aggress but it just feels like fizz always wins the patient game. so frustrating
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cant be too bad just lane normal
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The only thing I've done is play super defensive. Don't go anywhere near him and use your range. You can try to be aggressive and do things like sphere him for every last hit, but Fizz is good at dodging skill shots. Playing defensive can be harsh because although Fizz might not kill you, he'll roam around and get kills anyway (most likely). If you do this, you are also relying on team mates to be aware of your pings and things like that. Play your part by warding and doing your best to keep track of him. But you probably won't lose lane at least. Syndra is a pretty good farmer.
I open 3pots and 2 faerie charms vs Fizz and go for an early Chalice. You'll need mana to farm.
Ultimately, Fizz is at the advantage. It is just that sort of matchup. An assassin that can dodge your stun is not good for Syndra. Back often and get Jungler help to hold lane.
Troll pole while your ult is in flight literally tears out your soul.
By the way, there is a Syndra champ thread that Orb posts in. He wrote a guide on her that you could check out.
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I still think a good Syndra will smash a good Fizz but that's because I've only played against diamonds who smash me regardless of the matchup
@Jazz
Obviously you never ult him unless E is on cooldown or he's in a stunlock
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On August 13 2013 18:10 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I still think a good Syndra will smash a good Fizz but that's because I've only played against diamonds who smash me regardless of the matchup
@Jazz
Obviously you never ult him unless E is on cooldown or he's in a stunlock
Well that's the theory, but sometimes I've been a bit trigger happy...
Syndra vs Fizz isn't her worst match up though IMO. Just a rough one. Can definitely go even or win lane.
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This is also what i would do 
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EPT
