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So, I have been trying to find a solution. So far, I have posted in three different threads repeatedly seeking aide, and I think at this point, it is far unsolved that its own thread is warranted.
I have been unable to win against Fizz as Syndra. Period. At all. I have tried a wealth of different strategies and yet, nothing has worked. I have not been able to find any VODs of a Syndra player beating a Fizz.
Strategies Tried:
1.) All-In Level 1
Go full AD and AA all-in and Flash+Ignite on him. Lose horribly.
2.) Level 1 Harass
Go full AP, Doran's Ring, and spam spells on him until he dies. Flash + Ignite. Lose horribly.
3.) Standard.
Go standard AP, harass/farm. Lose horribly.
4.) Super-defensive-farm
Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in.
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Playing against Fizz is a manageable lane as Syndra in my opinion as she has such a long range. Stay out of his Q range and he can't reach you (and if hes confident enough to use E to get in Q range he blows a HUGE chunk of mana and wastes his only defensive ability to hit you, which you can abuse) and run around in unpredictable patterns so he can't catch you with his ult.
From my experience of playing as and against Fizz i can say that hes just as strong as any other champion until he picks up a kill or two, then he starts snowballing like crazy. If Fizz manages to pick up a kill then you should ask for some jungle intervention. Something i've seen some players do against me is go for Rod of Ages first item to survive the level 6 burst and it seems like a solid choice in my opinion.
To reiterate: don't fall behind, play carefully and smart and you should manage. Fizz is one of the strongest all-in champions if not the strongest in the mid lane. Harass him with auto attacks at level 1, and poke him a bit with abilities after 2 but don't get close enough for him to attack back. Once hes low he can't really go all-in on you unless you slip up.
If all else fails, play him yourself and you should get a feel for his strengths and weaknesses.
EDIT: If a Fizz has blue buff, you gotta be extra cautious as he can W+Q you then E away instantly without any chance of retaliation. If he E>W+Q's you, back off then unload back at him once at a safe distance and he starts retreating. Never take a Fizz Q+W for free, try to do some damage back but don't overdo it and get yourself killed.
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I can't help with your problem regarding the match up as I basically don't play mid. That being said, you should consider using either the syndra thread of the fizz thread for help (in the strategy section).
On August 13 2013 00:53 XilDarkz wrote:
So far, I have posted in three different threads repeatedly seeking aide
Technically you asked in three different threads but I think for most TL- lol members you only asked in one place: general discussions. The fact that new threads were started for new patches doesn't make much of a difference.
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I don't think there is a single syndra main on TL.
The most basic way I can think of Syndra to deal with Fizz is running Flat MR runes, and 14/16 masteries.
Try opening up with early Chalice (the early mr will help tons).
Also try to abuse his E cooldowns. He needs his E to farm the lane quickly, so the second you see him use his E, try and all-in or force him out of lane.
Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in.
Don't open up Null Magic Mantle, that's just bad. Fizz's timing, like most assassins is usually level 4 and level 6.
You can just open up farie charms, and get the NMM later in the chalice build.
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Baa?21242 Posts
You dont beat fizz. You just dont.
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Baa?21242 Posts
No one beats fizz all you do is get jungler to camp until he is 0-10 and 3 levrls below you at which point he will still 1 shot you 1v1 cause lolfizz is lolbalanced
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The number 1 priority laning against fizz is to keep movespeed parity with him at all times. When he recalls for an early sorcerer's shoes, you get mercs or sorc shoes to match. Boots 1 to boots 1. IF he is able to urchin strike you without using playful&trickster then that's completely your fault and you will begin to lose the lane.
Don't be afraid to flash as early as possible so he doesn't hit his shark + urchin strike when you're low. In particular no dash champions (Syndra, TF, etc) who also have long range, try a super strong early game item build (2 or 3 doran rings, boots 2 whenever you need). Don't be too concerned over early game last hits and try to be positive as a game goes on because most of the time the AP carry is also the solution to stopping fizz lategame (burst damage, zhonya item build, crowd control). Make a constant mental note on fizz's cooldowns (read it on the wiki) and force that fizz to use spells to dodge your spells while not being stupidly aggressive that you get ganked retardedly. Make a mental note on fizz's full damage as well (a bit harder to do), but if you can do that correctly you start to recognize a person's general playstyle (if he's willing to risk things, or he's willing to gank the shit out of the other laners).
EDIT: If I see you on LiquidPractice, we can discuss this match up further
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On August 13 2013 02:21 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
No one beats fizz all you do is get jungler to camp until he is 0-10 and 3 levrls below you at which point he will still 1 shot you 1v1 cause lolfizz is lolbalanced
I sense a painful history.
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On August 13 2013 02:59 MCMilo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The number 1 priority laning against fizz is to keep movespeed parity with him at all times. When he recalls for an early sorcerer's shoes, you get mercs or sorc shoes to match. Boots 1 to boots 1. IF he is able to urchin strike you without using playful&trickster then that's completely your fault and you will begin to lose the lane.
Don't be afraid to flash as early as possible so he doesn't hit his shark + urchin strike when you're low. In particular no dash champions (Syndra, TF, etc) who also have long range, try a super strong early game item build (2 or 3 doran rings, boots 2 whenever you need). Don't be too concerned over early game last hits and try to be positive as a game goes on because most of the time the AP carry is also the solution to stopping fizz lategame (burst damage, zhonya item build, crowd control). Make a constant mental note on fizz's cooldowns (read it on the wiki) and force that fizz to use spells to dodge your spells while not being stupidly aggressive that you get ganked retardedly. Make a mental note on fizz's full damage as well (a bit harder to do), but if you can do that correctly you start to recognize a person's general playstyle (if he's willing to risk things, or he's willing to gank the shit out of the other laners).
EDIT: If I see you on LiquidPractice, we can discuss this match up further
Also important to buy plenty of wards. If the enemy fizz realizes your playing too safe to kill, it's important to also protect your teammates. If you can push the lane to enemy turret before the next wave comes it's best to do that. You don't want to be pushed up in this lane. You don't have to win every lane to win the game. This is one of those lanes where you won't win unless the other guy is terrible.
On August 13 2013 02:21 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
No one beats fizz all you do is get jungler to camp until he is 0-10 and 3 levrls below you at which point he will still 1 shot you 1v1 cause lolfizz is lolbalanced
As an anivia player, I feel your pain.
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As an Anivia player, you deserve it.
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On August 13 2013 03:50 Alaric wrote:
As an Anivia player, you deserve it.
GTFO
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Play a champion other than Syndra. Problem solved.
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I may be wrong, but it basically sounds like you main a champion who is normally a lane bully, and for the first time have encountered a champion who can consistently out-bully you. What's probably making the matchup so hard is that you aren't used to coming into the lane in a disadvantaged position, and aren't used to playing defensively.
It's essentially an issue of experience. I imagine that even if you knew the correct/optimal/best way to handle the situation that your execution thereof would be iffy just due to where the bulk of your experience.
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On August 13 2013 03:53 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Play a champion other than Syndra. Problem solved.
At his level, it's rarely matchup dependent. Most problems can be solved just by simply being a better player.
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You can just take Barrier and cut your death rate in half
[edit] Wait I just reread this and you're losing to Fizz when you come with Barrier? You're just playing badly then, either you're runed wrong or you are simply misplaying or both. [/edit]
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This is how Lux wins lane against Fizz so I assume it works for Syndra too as long as you're not like taking Qs from him without forcing him to E first
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On August 13 2013 01:27 wei2coolman wrote:I don't think there is a single syndra main on TL.The most basic way I can think of Syndra to deal with Fizz is running Flat MR runes, and 14/16 masteries. Try opening up with early Chalice (the early mr will help tons). Also try to abuse his E cooldowns. He needs his E to farm the lane quickly, so the second you see him use his E, try and all-in or force him out of lane. Show nested quote +Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in. Don't open up Null Magic Mantle, that's just bad. Fizz's timing, like most assassins is usually level 4 and level 6. You can just open up farie charms, and get the NMM later in the chalice build.
What about that mega troll guy who only goes syndra mid or jungle every game.
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On August 13 2013 05:51 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:27 wei2coolman wrote:I don't think there is a single syndra main on TL.The most basic way I can think of Syndra to deal with Fizz is running Flat MR runes, and 14/16 masteries. Try opening up with early Chalice (the early mr will help tons). Also try to abuse his E cooldowns. He needs his E to farm the lane quickly, so the second you see him use his E, try and all-in or force him out of lane. Go MR, start with the 400g MR item, farm, with defensive masteries and Flash+Barrier. Die at level 6 to all-in. Don't open up Null Magic Mantle, that's just bad. Fizz's timing, like most assassins is usually level 4 and level 6. You can just open up farie charms, and get the NMM later in the chalice build. What about that mega troll guy who only goes syndra mid or jungle every game.
That's the OP
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Fizz wins lanes against squishy mages. That's kinda what he does. You just have to play super defensive. Load up on flat MR blues. Get a few early doran's rings and/or build into catalyst. If all else fails get a negatron; you can turn it into abyssal later.
Mostly you need to just farm at range with your skills and be very aware of your positioning.
Try using flat MR blues. Get Flat MR quints if you're really scared. Heck, get hp yellows if you're really really scared. Still go for penetration reds though. Try opening with a flask/pots/ward start. Just farm at range with your Q and W.
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Also if you let him push on you, you deserve to lose. Fizz E lets him chunk you for a bunch under your tower, so don't let that happen.
Also make sure to back often
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EPT
