• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:27
CEST 18:27
KST 01:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun11[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
[TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator Data needed Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) ASL21 General Discussion JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2092 users

[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 170 171 172 173 174 339 Next
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 21 2013 05:43 GMT
#3421
K the answer to jayce is now clear, AD lulu mid with sotl and cutlass.
Glorious SEA doto
DURRHURRDERP
Profile Joined May 2006
Canada929 Posts
July 21 2013 05:48 GMT
#3422
mmr is pretty boned, i'm in gold 5 on my smurf and im 1st pick over some dude in his promo series to plat (not to mention wasabi who ends up being last pick despite being gold 3)
"I am an iconic role model for everyone aspiring to be better at League of Legends." - Roffles
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
July 21 2013 06:02 GMT
#3423
On July 21 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 14:31 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
So you could say my MMR is getting a little out of hand.
:|
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And yet, Gold III

IM WORKING ON IT
lol

Are you choking on your series?

No, but 4 weeks ago I went from Silver 4 to Silver 3. For two weeks I kept failing at promo, I went through 14-15 of them until finally winning. Since then I've gone 23-2 in ranked, and when I won my gold 5 promos I skipped gold 4 and went straight to gold 3. So I'm still getting back up to my true MMR. Games are still easy now, but they might get hard soon :x
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51592 Posts
July 21 2013 06:13 GMT
#3424
On July 21 2013 14:43 Fusilero wrote:
K the answer to jayce is now clear, AD lulu mid with sotl and cutlass.


lol i go to the same school as heavenz. my friend told me he got kicked out of immunity, but heavenz just grinded back to diamond 1 on na and they let him back in.
Commentator
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 21 2013 06:26 GMT
#3425
On July 21 2013 15:02 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:31 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
So you could say my MMR is getting a little out of hand.
:|
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And yet, Gold III

IM WORKING ON IT
lol

Are you choking on your series?

No, but 4 weeks ago I went from Silver 4 to Silver 3. For two weeks I kept failing at promo, I went through 14-15 of them until finally winning. Since then I've gone 23-2 in ranked, and when I won my gold 5 promos I skipped gold 4 and went straight to gold 3. So I'm still getting back up to my true MMR. Games are still easy now, but they might get hard soon :x

Hmm interesting; how are your LP gains/loss per game? I recently just jumped from Silver 5 to Silver 3, gaining around 17LP a win and losing 21 LP a game. That means I'm a higher division than my MMR right?
liftlift > tsm
GettingIt
Profile Joined August 2011
1656 Posts
July 21 2013 06:28 GMT
#3426
On July 21 2013 15:13 GTR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 14:43 Fusilero wrote:
K the answer to jayce is now clear, AD lulu mid with sotl and cutlass.


lol i go to the same school as heavenz. my friend told me he got kicked out of immunity, but heavenz just grinded back to diamond 1 on na and they let him back in.


Why was he kicked out in the first place?
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
July 21 2013 06:38 GMT
#3427
On July 21 2013 15:26 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 15:02 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:31 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
So you could say my MMR is getting a little out of hand.
:|
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And yet, Gold III

IM WORKING ON IT
lol

Are you choking on your series?

No, but 4 weeks ago I went from Silver 4 to Silver 3. For two weeks I kept failing at promo, I went through 14-15 of them until finally winning. Since then I've gone 23-2 in ranked, and when I won my gold 5 promos I skipped gold 4 and went straight to gold 3. So I'm still getting back up to my true MMR. Games are still easy now, but they might get hard soon :x

Hmm interesting; how are your LP gains/loss per game? I recently just jumped from Silver 5 to Silver 3, gaining around 17LP a win and losing 21 LP a game. That means I'm a higher division than my MMR right?

Well, right now I'm gaining something like 30 LP per win and losing about 10-15 per loss. I haven't lost other those two games, so I don't know how much LP I would lose. I gained something like 40 in silver 1 once tho
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51592 Posts
July 21 2013 06:38 GMT
#3428
On July 21 2013 15:28 GettingIt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 15:13 GTR wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:43 Fusilero wrote:
K the answer to jayce is now clear, AD lulu mid with sotl and cutlass.


lol i go to the same school as heavenz. my friend told me he got kicked out of immunity, but heavenz just grinded back to diamond 1 on na and they let him back in.


Why was he kicked out in the first place?


wanted to move raydere to mid and bring in their old sub as the new adc
although it was more due to some internal issues between the members though
Commentator
justiceknight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Singapore5741 Posts
July 21 2013 06:49 GMT
#3429
has any1 tried out the jayce and draven for this patch?

For Jayce the charge time for muramana takes fucking long,i didnt even complete it despite going 5-0 till end game lol.If any1 has manage to complete it,whats the average time did u get?

For draven I felt it became super weak that i dont even bother to practice it anymore, the laning phase doesnt scare off opp's support at all and they can just shield and sustain all day.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 21 2013 07:03 GMT
#3430
On July 21 2013 15:38 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 15:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 15:02 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:31 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
So you could say my MMR is getting a little out of hand.
:|
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And yet, Gold III

IM WORKING ON IT
lol

Are you choking on your series?

No, but 4 weeks ago I went from Silver 4 to Silver 3. For two weeks I kept failing at promo, I went through 14-15 of them until finally winning. Since then I've gone 23-2 in ranked, and when I won my gold 5 promos I skipped gold 4 and went straight to gold 3. So I'm still getting back up to my true MMR. Games are still easy now, but they might get hard soon :x

Hmm interesting; how are your LP gains/loss per game? I recently just jumped from Silver 5 to Silver 3, gaining around 17LP a win and losing 21 LP a game. That means I'm a higher division than my MMR right?

Well, right now I'm gaining something like 30 LP per win and losing about 10-15 per loss. I haven't lost other those two games, so I don't know how much LP I would lose. I gained something like 40 in silver 1 once tho

I'm mad jelly; with dem gainz you'll be Plat in no time.
liftlift > tsm
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-21 07:04:54
July 21 2013 07:04 GMT
#3431
On July 21 2013 15:49 justiceknight wrote:
has any1 tried out the jayce and draven for this patch?

For Jayce the charge time for muramana takes fucking long,i didnt even complete it despite going 5-0 till end game lol.If any1 has manage to complete it,whats the average time did u get?

For draven I felt it became super weak that i dont even bother to practice it anymore, the laning phase doesnt scare off opp's support at all and they can just shield and sustain all day.

draven still does a lot of damage though and can now harass under tower without waiting forever for it to come up. did lose quite a bit of damage but that new passive isn't too bad. not bad at all in pubs lol
BW -> League -> CSGO
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
July 21 2013 07:39 GMT
#3432
On July 21 2013 16:03 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 15:38 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 15:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 15:02 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:31 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
So you could say my MMR is getting a little out of hand.
:|
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And yet, Gold III

IM WORKING ON IT
lol

Are you choking on your series?

No, but 4 weeks ago I went from Silver 4 to Silver 3. For two weeks I kept failing at promo, I went through 14-15 of them until finally winning. Since then I've gone 23-2 in ranked, and when I won my gold 5 promos I skipped gold 4 and went straight to gold 3. So I'm still getting back up to my true MMR. Games are still easy now, but they might get hard soon :x

Hmm interesting; how are your LP gains/loss per game? I recently just jumped from Silver 5 to Silver 3, gaining around 17LP a win and losing 21 LP a game. That means I'm a higher division than my MMR right?

Well, right now I'm gaining something like 30 LP per win and losing about 10-15 per loss. I haven't lost other those two games, so I don't know how much LP I would lose. I gained something like 40 in silver 1 once tho

I'm mad jelly; with dem gainz you'll be Plat in no time.

Gonna ride the freelo train as long as I can
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-21 07:43:11
July 21 2013 07:42 GMT
#3433
On July 21 2013 16:39 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 16:03 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 15:38 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 15:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 15:02 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:31 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
On July 21 2013 14:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
So you could say my MMR is getting a little out of hand.
:|
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And yet, Gold III

IM WORKING ON IT
lol

Are you choking on your series?

No, but 4 weeks ago I went from Silver 4 to Silver 3. For two weeks I kept failing at promo, I went through 14-15 of them until finally winning. Since then I've gone 23-2 in ranked, and when I won my gold 5 promos I skipped gold 4 and went straight to gold 3. So I'm still getting back up to my true MMR. Games are still easy now, but they might get hard soon :x

Hmm interesting; how are your LP gains/loss per game? I recently just jumped from Silver 5 to Silver 3, gaining around 17LP a win and losing 21 LP a game. That means I'm a higher division than my MMR right?

Well, right now I'm gaining something like 30 LP per win and losing about 10-15 per loss. I haven't lost other those two games, so I don't know how much LP I would lose. I gained something like 40 in silver 1 once tho

I'm mad jelly; with dem gainz you'll be Plat in no time.

Gonna ride the freelo train as long as I can


Ive called security, they are on their way.

To remove you from my seat.
Useless wet fish.
Perplex
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1693 Posts
July 21 2013 07:53 GMT
#3434
On July 21 2013 14:48 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
mmr is pretty boned, i'm in gold 5 on my smurf and im 1st pick over some dude in his promo series to plat (not to mention wasabi who ends up being last pick despite being gold 3)


yeah the whole idea of a "series" is so stupid and frustrating to me. You should just get promoted whenever your MMR breaks some threshold.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24238059
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 21 2013 07:59 GMT
#3435
Man, reading reddit thread about all the pro smurf accounts reminds me why reddit LoL is such a shit hole. Everyone there seriously thinks elo hell actually exists. No wonder TL LoL articles don't get that many up votes, the 2 digit iq driven community too busy flinging boogers at others.
liftlift > tsm
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
July 21 2013 08:02 GMT
#3436
On July 21 2013 16:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Man, reading reddit thread about all the pro smurf accounts reminds me why reddit LoL is such a shit hole. Everyone there seriously thinks elo hell actually exists. No wonder TL LoL articles don't get that many up votes, the 2 digit iq driven community too busy flinging boogers at others.

The average age of Reddit LoL IS 15...

I just think the community focuses too much on drama, which I could care less about.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 21 2013 08:13 GMT
#3437
On July 21 2013 17:02 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 16:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Man, reading reddit thread about all the pro smurf accounts reminds me why reddit LoL is such a shit hole. Everyone there seriously thinks elo hell actually exists. No wonder TL LoL articles don't get that many up votes, the 2 digit iq driven community too busy flinging boogers at others.

The average age of Reddit LoL IS 15...

I just think the community focuses too much on drama, which I could care less about.

At least the drama is mildly amusing compared to the support rights activists that just make me want to hurl.
Glorious SEA doto
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
July 21 2013 09:27 GMT
#3438
On July 21 2013 13:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 13:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
topdyr is only a pubstomp because it is absolutely worthless in a lane swap.

who lane swaps in solo queue?

A surprisingly high number of duos. I see it pretty much one game out of 2 when a side has a real duo lane.
The legend of Darien lives on
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3890 Posts
July 21 2013 10:17 GMT
#3439
On July 21 2013 17:13 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2013 17:02 kainzero wrote:
On July 21 2013 16:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Man, reading reddit thread about all the pro smurf accounts reminds me why reddit LoL is such a shit hole. Everyone there seriously thinks elo hell actually exists. No wonder TL LoL articles don't get that many up votes, the 2 digit iq driven community too busy flinging boogers at others.

The average age of Reddit LoL IS 15...

I just think the community focuses too much on drama, which I could care less about.

At least the drama is mildly amusing compared to the support rights activists that just make me want to hurl.


I don't even know what this means, is this non lol related? 0.o
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
July 21 2013 10:34 GMT
#3440
On July 21 2013 14:48 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
mmr is pretty boned, i'm in gold 5 on my smurf and im 1st pick over some dude in his promo series to plat (not to mention wasabi who ends up being last pick despite being gold 3)



I met AsnSensation here from TL in some ranked games, where i was FP. He failed his promo series to diamond quite a handful of times, so when he finally got diamond 5 (i think was i D4 at that point) he suddenly had MMR way higher than me, because of the fails.
hi
Prev 1 170 171 172 173 174 339 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#114
TriGGeR vs Percival
RotterdaM770
Liquipedia
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #246
WardiTV519
TKL 252
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 770
TKL 252
JuggernautJason34
UpATreeSC 33
MindelVK 27
ProTech21
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35838
Calm 4708
Sea 2227
Mini 799
Shuttle 519
firebathero 419
EffOrt 398
ggaemo 247
BeSt 237
Leta 219
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 164
Dewaltoss 108
Hyun 101
Sharp 81
ToSsGirL 56
Hm[arnc] 50
Sea.KH 47
Barracks 35
Free 27
Rock 24
scan(afreeca) 22
yabsab 18
910 14
Shine 14
GoRush 13
Terrorterran 13
Sacsri 10
IntoTheRainbow 10
SilentControl 9
JulyZerg 7
Dota 2
Gorgc5805
qojqva1926
monkeys_forever332
Other Games
Grubby4550
singsing2488
FrodaN981
B2W.Neo839
hiko752
crisheroes174
Hui .162
Mlord152
ArmadaUGS98
ViBE82
QueenE69
Trikslyr40
KnowMe33
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream57
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 7
• HerbMon 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4074
Other Games
• WagamamaTV304
• Shiphtur222
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 33m
Replay Cast
16h 33m
RSL Revival
17h 33m
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
18h 33m
Percival vs Shameless
ByuN vs YoungYakov
IPSL
23h 33m
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 17h
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 21h
BSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
4 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
5 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
6 days
Escore
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-30
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.