• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:26
CEST 21:26
KST 04:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy2[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon100Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 8/8 The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Yamato Cup Series StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL23] SM: Ret vs TerrOr -> DragOn vs StRyKeR [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9732 users

Bush Torture Memos

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:10:22
April 16 2009 23:59 GMT
#1
More news links:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUKN1627971620090416?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aWdlo4rB9Uic&refer=us
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/16/torture.cia.immunity/

Here's an interesting article I just read:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/16/torture-memos-bush-administration


Obama releases Bush torture memos

Insects, sleep deprivation and waterboarding among approved techniques by the Bush administration

+ Show Spoiler [ Actual article] +


Barack Obama today released four top secret memos that allowed the CIA under the Bush administration to torture al-Qaida and other suspects held at Guantánamo and secret detention centres round the world.

But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.

The memos provide an insight into the techniques used by the CIA and the legal basis on which the Bush administration gave the go-ahead.

In the first of the memos, dated 1 August 2002, the justice department gave the go-ahead to John Rizzo, then acting general counsel to the CIA, for operatives to move to the "increased pressure phase" in interrogating an al-Qaida suspect.

Ten techniques are approved, listed as: attention grasp, walling (in which the suspect could be pushed into a wall), a facial hold, a facial slap, cramped confinement, wall standing, sleep deprivation, insects placed in a confinement box (the suspect had a fear of insects) and the waterboard. In the latter, "the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner........produces the perception of 'suffocation and incipient panic'."

'Walling' involved use of a plastic neck collar to slam suspects into a specially-built wall that the CIA said made the impact sound worse than it actually was. Other methods include food deprivation.

The techniques were applied to at least 14 suspects.

The Bush administration, in particular former vice-president Dick Cheney, claimed that waterboarding did not amount to torture but the Obama adminstration has ruled that it is. Obama ordered the closure of Guantánamo and the CIA secret detention sites abroad.

In spite of that, civil rights organisations have been disappointed by a series of rulings by the Obama administration that have protected a lot of material relating to Guantánamo and the sites abroad. The release of the memos today reversed that trend, though there will be unhappiness over the immunity from prosecution.

Obama, in a statement from the White House, said: "In releasing these memos, it is our intention to assure those who carrying out their duties relying in good faith upon the legal advice from the department of justice that they will not be subject to prosecution."

Anthony Romero, the ACLU executive director, said: "President Obama's assertion that there should not be prosecutions of government officials who may have committed crimes before a thorough investigation has been carried out is simply untenable."

The ACLU described the legal basis for torture as spurious.

Echoing the president, the attorney-general, Eric Holder, reiterated that there would be no prosecution of CIA operatives working within the guidelines set by the Bush administration."It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the justice department," Holder said.

The director of the CIA, Leon Panetta, told CIA employees that "this is not the end of the road on these issues", apparently in expectation of Congressional inquiries and court actions abroad. He promised legal and financial help for any CIA employees who faced such action.

In Spain, the chances of court action against six senior Bush administration members over the torture receded today after a ruling by the attorney-general, Candido Conde-Pumpido.

He said that any such action should be heard in a US court rather than a Spanish one, and that he would not allow Spain's legal system to be used as a plaything for political ends.

"If there is a reason to file a complaint against these people, it should be done before local courts with jurisdiction, in other words in the United States," he told reporters.

Spanish human rights lawyers last month asked Judge Baltasar Garzón, who indicted the former Chilean president Augusto Pinochet in 1998, to consider filing charges against the former US attorney-general, Alberto Gonzales, and five others.



TL:DR version

Obama released four top secret memos that allowed the CIA under the Bush administration to torture al-Qaida and other suspects held at Guantánamo and secret detention centres round the world.

Ten approved techniques:
- attention grasp
- walling (in which the suspect could be pushed into a wall)
- a facial hold
- a facial slap
- cramped confinement
- wall standing
- week-long sleep deprivation source
- insects placed in a confinement box (the suspect had a fear of insects)
- waterboard - "the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner........produces the perception of 'suffocation and incipient panic'."

But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.

O_O
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Folca
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
2235 Posts
April 17 2009 00:00 GMT
#2
Wow.
Dea : one time when he was playing vs the comps he asked me "how do I make that flying unit that makes the other stuff invisible" and I reply "ur playing terran zomg"
SwaY-
Profile Joined March 2009
Dominican Republic463 Posts
April 17 2009 00:02 GMT
#3
Yeah the bolded part was a big wtf, why are they releasing these if there is not intention of prosecuting?
Do it beautifully
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 17 2009 00:03 GMT
#4
I don't know what attention grab is, but the rest of them didn't seem that bad to me :3
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
April 17 2009 00:04 GMT
#5
I just pulled consecutive allnighters, and I never ever want to not sleep ever again

So sleep deprivation is definitely a big gg for me
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
April 17 2009 00:04 GMT
#6
On April 17 2009 09:00 Folca wrote:
Wow.

+1
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:06:54
April 17 2009 00:05 GMT
#7
This is pretty fucking dirty by Obama. Not shady, but it should be pretty clear to everyone (it was clear during the election too) that he's from the Chicago political machine. I've always thought it was absurd that people questioned his toughness; anyone that gets through big city politics knows how to handle themselves.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:12:00
April 17 2009 00:05 GMT
#8
The waterboarding stuff was in prison break. Theyd put a plastic film over the nose and mouth and then drop water on it. And the torturee convulsioned, didnt really get what it was about o.O

Oh and i thought a week long of deprivation is enough to leave anyone permanently really fucked in the brain, if not dead. I dont understand the reasoning behind it. Might as well shoot him in the head and hope he only ends up retarded and not dead, then hell really talk lol.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
aRod
Profile Joined July 2007
United States758 Posts
April 17 2009 00:10 GMT
#9
The secrecy is over
Live to win.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
April 17 2009 00:12 GMT
#10
On April 17 2009 09:10 aRod wrote:
The secrecy is over


no, not so much
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
CrimsonLotus
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Colombia1123 Posts
April 17 2009 00:15 GMT
#11
On April 17 2009 08:59 Cambium wrote:But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.


This is something i would have expected from the Bush Administration.

I guess "change" cant come without compromises... *sigh*
444 444 444 444
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
April 17 2009 00:17 GMT
#12
On April 17 2009 09:15 CrimsonLotus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 08:59 Cambium wrote:But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.


This is something i would have expected from the Bush Administration.

I guess "change" cant come without compromises... *sigh*


If you didn't expect it from the Obama administration then you haven't been paying attention for the past year and a half.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
April 17 2009 00:21 GMT
#13
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44291 Posts
April 17 2009 00:22 GMT
#14
On April 17 2009 09:05 Cloud wrote:
The waterboarding stuff was in prison break. Theyd put a plastic film over the nose and mouth and then drop water on it. And the torturee convulsioned, didnt really get what it was about o.O

Oh and i thought a week long of deprivation is enough to leave anyone permanently really fucked in the brain, if not dead. I dont understand the reasoning behind it. Might as well shoot him in the head and hope he only ends up retarded and not dead, then hell really talk lol.

It tricks the brain into believing you're drowning, swamping you with uncontrollable panic. It's basically the same trick as trapping you in a box with insects for the phobia guy, it's just fear of drowning isn't a phobia because it's not irrational.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
SwaY-
Profile Joined March 2009
Dominican Republic463 Posts
April 17 2009 00:27 GMT
#15
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?
Do it beautifully
aRod
Profile Joined July 2007
United States758 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:31:35
April 17 2009 00:28 GMT
#16
On April 17 2009 09:12 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:10 aRod wrote:
The secrecy is over


no, not so much


Let me clarify, the secrecy concerning the previous administration's role in guantanimo relating to torcher is fading.
Live to win.
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
April 17 2009 00:32 GMT
#17
On April 17 2009 09:27 SwaY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=obama renew patriot act

2nd from top
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:34:29
April 17 2009 00:32 GMT
#18
On April 17 2009 09:27 SwaY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00029

It's a better bill than the original version, but it is what it is. He's a center-left politician. Props to Levin though.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Ry-Masta-T
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States478 Posts
April 17 2009 00:32 GMT
#19
On April 17 2009 09:28 aRod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:12 Mindcrime wrote:
On April 17 2009 09:10 aRod wrote:
The secrecy is over


no, not so much


Let me clarify, the secrecy concerning the previous administration's role in guantanimo relating to torcher is fading.

lol
Speak the word...
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
April 17 2009 00:33 GMT
#20
On April 17 2009 09:32 HeadBangaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:27 SwaY- wrote:
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=obama renew patriot act

2nd from top

It seems like it took more effort for you to create that link than it did for me to Google and paste it.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
S23 - Announcement Showmatch
Ret vs TerrOr
DragOn vs StRyKeR
ZZZero.O134
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 531
ProTech147
BRAT_OK 74
MindelVK 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 609
ZZZero.O 134
Dewaltoss 122
Trap 42
Mong 36
soO 22
zelot 8
Counter-Strike
fl0m640
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu535
Khaldor395
Other Games
Grubby4046
FrodaN2812
Liquid`RaSZi2468
B2W.Neo723
ArmadaUGS129
Pyrionflax105
XaKoH 88
ZombieGrub84
Railgan27
CosmosSc2 27
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream4269
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile125
• Reevou 4
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix15
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4176
Other Games
• imaqtpie1054
• Shiphtur271
• Scarra125
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 34m
Afreeca Starleague
14h 34m
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
15h 34m
Monday Night Weeklies
20h 34m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 14h
Light vs EffOrt
OSC
1d 16h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
GSL
6 days
Yamato Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

K-JUNGMAN
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.