everyone's going nuts! North Korea launched a rocket! OH NOESSSSSSSS!!!
(http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/index.html for details, I guess)
Honestly, do people really think there is a missile attached to it and that North Korea is going to attack anybody? Maybe I'm just skeptical at this stage and I frankly don't think a major conflict will break out in the world for a long time, and if it does it will be initiated by a much larger power such as Russia, China, or the United States. Personally, I think they just want to get a satellite up in space, it's a pretty big thing for a country to have a space program and launch a satellite successfully, and fuck it why can't they? It was the same thing with Iran's satellite (launched about a month ago)... big fuss ultimately for nothing.
Just because North Korea is run by a crazy fuck doesn't mean everything the country does is evil and maliciously planned. Let them have their rocket in space!
if they were testing to get a satelite up into space they wouldnt do tests by launching rockets way towards the east in the direction of the united states would they?
On April 05 2009 15:41 tekushikume wrote: if they were testing to get a satelite up into space they wouldnt do tests by launching rockets way towards the east in the direction of the united states would they?
Yeah, it's possible - I mean, the rocket would have to have some sort of trajectory as it put the satellite into orbit, and going east over the Pacific seems to make more sense than going west over mainland Asia.
It's really unclear whether the North Korean government's story about the rocket housing a communications satellite is true, but even if is I think it's fair to say that the government's primary objective was to show off its rocket technology. That's not fear-mongering, that's just the most sensical inference based on the past actions and general nature of North Korea's government.
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@TimeShifter....I hope you get banned for that post.
no one was postulating that there was going to be explosive weaponry attached to this rocket. the point is that they use the same rocket for launching satellites into space as they do for their military missiles.
so while this launch was represented as benign it is also essentially a missile test. the results of this test are directly applicable to their military missile program.
also considering their history you have to admit it is a bit provocative launching a rocket over japan.
i'm not taking much of an opinion on this either way just making some corrections
On April 05 2009 15:41 tekushikume wrote: if they were testing to get a satelite up into space they wouldnt do tests by launching rockets way towards the east in the direction of the united states would they?
Yeah, it's possible - I mean, the rocket would have to have some sort of trajectory as it put the satellite into orbit, and going east over the Pacific seems to make more sense than going west over mainland Asia.
you make a very good point there. i still think that it may have traveled a little too far for a satelite test launch. theres a pretty good sized body of water to the east of north korea and the rocket flew all the way over japan and into the pacific.
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
Yeah because living right where a nuke hit is aces.
There is a reason there was a "Space Race" between Soviets and the US during the Cold War. Back then the most common method to drop a nuke was to use Bombers. Thus in the space race, the idea was that if you could launch something into space (ie. Soviet's Sputnik satellite) then you can bring it down on anywhere you like.
Meaning if you could launch a nuke into space, you can bring it down anywhere you like(ICBM)
On April 05 2009 15:58 The Storyteller wrote: Communications satellite? Who does N. Korea communicate with? And it's not like any of their people can afford mobile phones.
On April 05 2009 15:58 The Storyteller wrote: Communications satellite? Who does N. Korea communicate with? And it's not like any of their people can afford mobile phones.
Kim Jong Il is upgrading to broadband.
Apparently trying to catch the new season of Heroes but it's not streaming fast enough.
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
Just another Barginning chip so that they can get enough aid to last through the new years and not have the people in the capital starve to death. They'll show off a new toy in a couple of years and it'll repeat to the point where Kim Jong contracts an STD like Hitler and goes butt fuck mental.
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I dont think you understand, they are ONE people. im sure the south koreans would love the genocide of millions of their countrymen.
I imagine Kim Jong-il waking up, gazing at the elaborate breakfast prepared for him and then looking at the naked young girl who is by his side. He feels the nice silk sheets of his luxurious bed. He might even have a sip of champaigne in the morning (the world's finest brand only)
And, in his infinite lack of humanity, his only thought is, "how can I hold on to this longer?"
On April 05 2009 15:41 tekushikume wrote: if they were testing to get a satelite up into space they wouldnt do tests by launching rockets way towards the east in the direction of the united states would they?
Yeah - when you are trying to achieve orbit, you can't just go straight up - you want to reach a high altitude but you have to have a high enough velocity when you get there in order to maintain orbit.
The technology for launch systems and missile systems aren't unrelated; Soviet and US launch systems came right out of their respective missile programs. Whether you are launching a missile or a space-destined payload, your rocket has to be able to go downrange a great deal. (Ballistic missiles only ever achieve sub-orbital flight, while a launch vehicle aims to put an object into Earth orbit at least.) There's nothing necessarily provocative about NK missiles going towards the Pacific. It's not like trying to see how far you can spit. This is just how you develop the technology - on the other hand, there is a question of whether NK should possess such technology. I can't see Kim Jong Il wanting launch systems for anything other than ultimately military roles.
On April 05 2009 15:58 The Storyteller wrote: Communications satellite? Who does N. Korea communicate with? And it's not like any of their people can afford mobile phones.
Kim Jong Il is upgrading to broadband.
Satellite connection ftw.
Everyone is afraid because of their history.. if only N.Korea would just say 'yes' or 'no'.
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I dont think you understand, they are ONE people. im sure the south koreans would love the genocide of millions of their countrymen.
On April 05 2009 17:54 HonestTea wrote: I wrote this two years ago, but:
I imagine Kim Jong-il waking up, gazing at the elaborate breakfast prepared for him and then looking at the naked young girl who is by his side. He feels the nice silk sheets of his luxurious bed. He might even have a sip of champaigne in the morning (the world's finest brand only)
And, in his infinite lack of humanity, his only thought is, "how can I hold on to this longer?"
First, i think you guys are really overestimating the leader's power, even in a very strict dictatorial system. A country is never led by 1 guy even if he's always in the front. It's ruled by the party which is made of lots of people. So seriously, Kim Jong-il can desire to nuke whoever he likes (or doesn't like actually) but it's far from happening. And everyone there knows attacking someone would mean suicide.
Second, what's wrong with any country launching a satellite or detaining missiles? And it's a very big difference between launching a satellite and getting a balistic missile. The first one is a lot easier.
And third, why are you demonizing the north korean people? You think they are no longer humans because they are living there? That your life is more important than theirs just because you're from a more advanced country? They are living, loving, having sex, eating, thinking, working, having all kind of dramas, hoping, wishing, doing sport, reading. Just like you.
they aren't worrying that it's a nuke. they are worried that this is simply another thinly-disguised test for the north korean icbm program.
if you think about it, what kind of satellite is n. korea gonna launch anyways. Science or telecommunications initiative.... i don't think so.
You also have to look at it from n. korea's neighbours POV. We might feel safe sitting here in north america, but icbm/irbms in the hands of an unstable dictator like kim jong il is surely something to be apprehensive about if you're japanese, for example.
I just find it strange to invest in space exploration research, when your citizenry is starving, or telecom sats when your country's media is completely state-controlled...
and I'm pretty sure sk and japan are more than capable of intercepting soviet-era bombers.
On April 05 2009 18:15 Cesar2000 wrote: I wish it were a bomb just so we could finally invade the damn shithole.
Is it just me or is there really an influx of subpar posts coming from newbies that probably joined TL after they saw that we owned the other foreign-based SC fan sites..?
On April 05 2009 20:37 Pika Chu wrote: Why not? You think they have no communication systems? No research programs?
And as i said, it's a big difference between launching a satellite (having the missile to launch it) and testing an ICBM.
Ah come on, why do they need icbms for japan or SK? They can throw a nuke there even by airplane.
Bombers can easily be intercepted, i doubt Japan would just let Kim fly a plane right in the middle of Tokyo. not to mention bombers cost SIGNIFICANTLY more than ICBM. probably many times cheaper
they r scared of every1 being against them and they r just showing off their powers to keep ppl at bay... it's the equivalent of throwing a rock near dogs to keep them from killing u.... cept in this case it's ICBM rocks... lols
EDIT:
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
plz don't speak w/ that retarded mouth of urs... rather don't type w/ that retard hand of urs...
On April 05 2009 15:58 The Storyteller wrote: Communications satellite? Who does N. Korea communicate with? And it's not like any of their people can afford mobile phones.
Well, it's just been announced on KBS (Korean Broadcast Station) that it's a satellite, not a missle, but the technology for N.Korea to bomb even Hawaii is now possible. Really, N.Korea needs to open up like China, because it's not going to help in my country's unification ;___;
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I dont think you understand, they are ONE people. im sure the south koreans would love the genocide of millions of their countrymen.
Great post!
You deserve a cookie. I love you.[/QUOTE]
maybe the south koreans feel that way..but i dont think the North Koreans feel the same; there are so many incidents: abduction, shooting, isolation, threats and all..and after so long, probably there are not as many nuclear south korean families that are split between the 2 countries..Kondora do you have any family members across the parallel??
it seems that they have already identified themselves as people of a different land..
US knows perfectly well since their space program was also just a billboard for their ICBM prowess. Same with Russia. It was all about nuclear missiles.
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I dont think you understand, they are ONE people. im sure the south koreans would love the genocide of millions of their countrymen.
Great post!
You deserve a cookie. I love you.
maybe the south koreans feel that way..but i dont think the North Koreans feel the same; there are so many incidents: abduction, shooting, isolation, threats and all..and after so long, probably there are not as many nuclear south korean families that are split between the 2 countries..Kondora do you have any family members across the parallel??
it seems that they have already identified themselves as people of a different land..
On April 05 2009 15:29 Xeris wrote: everyone's going nuts! North Korea launched a rocket! OH NOESSSSSSSS!!!
(http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/index.html for details, I guess)
Honestly, do people really think there is a missile attached to it and that North Korea is going to attack anybody? Maybe I'm just skeptical at this stage and I frankly don't think a major conflict will break out in the world for a long time, and if it does it will be initiated by a much larger power such as Russia, China, or the United States. Personally, I think they just want to get a satellite up in space, it's a pretty big thing for a country to have a space program and launch a satellite successfully, and fuck it why can't they? It was the same thing with Iran's satellite (launched about a month ago)... big fuss ultimately for nothing.
Just because North Korea is run by a crazy fuck doesn't mean everything the country does is evil and maliciously planned. Let them have their rocket in space!
"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent"... -Isaac Asimov
a major conflict is inevitable, call it human nature whatever, i think the possibility is directly related to plunging world markets. you should know what happens when people are poor and hopeless
i'd like you to memorize this quote: "Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." -Hermann Goering
if there is one problem with the majority of internet personalities, TL'ers, online elitists it is their lack of understanding towards reality. most of TL for example are students, very liberal, very opinionated about how the world works so just as a reminder the human run world has worked a certain way for a very long time and thats the reality
on the other hand i know nothing about the space race but i doubt n. korea has very humane, very open-ended diplomatics towards placing a satellite in orbit... for what reason would they do this? military? yes damn likely communication? sure entertainment for the people? yeah maybe --basically US and world leaders don't want to take the chance on a hunch about one leaders aspirations globally or locally and preemptive measures are what keep 85% of the people in the world safe at night, the things you'll never hear about
think about like that, yes their leader is tyrannical and insane, his motives are not complicated and no n. korean people are not the spitting image of said leader
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I dont think you understand, they are ONE people. im sure the south koreans would love the genocide of millions of their countrymen.
Great post!
You deserve a cookie. I love you.
maybe the south koreans feel that way..but i dont think the North Koreans feel the same; there are so many incidents: abduction, shooting, isolation, threats and all..and after so long, probably there are not as many nuclear south korean families that are split between the 2 countries..Kondora do you have any family members across the parallel??
it seems that they have already identified themselves as people of a different land..
And that would justify a massacre?
After a post like this:
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I think you can write this guy off as a troll. And what the fuck is a "nuclear south korean family?"
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I dont think you understand, they are ONE people. im sure the south koreans would love the genocide of millions of their countrymen.
Great post!
You deserve a cookie. I love you.
maybe the south koreans feel that way..but i dont think the North Koreans feel the same; there are so many incidents: abduction, shooting, isolation, threats and all..and after so long, probably there are not as many nuclear south korean families that are split between the 2 countries..Kondora do you have any family members across the parallel??
it seems that they have already identified themselves as people of a different land..
On April 05 2009 15:44 TimeShifter wrote: i wish the US would just nuke them already, and save so much time and money..then give the south koreans more land for development or whatever
I think you can write this guy off as a troll. And what the fuck is a "nuclear south korean family?"
it's a normal family, "kärnfamilj" in swedish. Like 1mom 1dad 2 kids 1 dog 1 volvo.
There is no evidence that the man, Kim Jong Il is insane. He's sane as the rest of the population with his own insecurities, his own vices, and his own lust for power. He's playing the world for a fool, if the world believes that he is insane and unpredictable. Like a professional poker player, Kim Jong Il has the stupid government officials from the US eating out of his hand.
If the US only had enough sense to ignore Kim Jong Il's demands for foreign aid. Don't give him any, and if the people of North Korea object to being starved, they can revolt or refuse to work.
It's just amazing how the people of the Western world help prop up all these vicious dictators in the 3rd world. It's as if their government officials conspired to keep all those people of 3rd world countries oppressed in a state of poverty.
On April 05 2009 23:45 TanGeng wrote: It's just amazing how the people of the Western world help prop up all these vicious dictators in the 3rd world. It's as if their government officials conspired to keep all those people of 3rd world countries oppressed in a state of poverty.
Pretty much yeah, it's why we in the west can afford to live the way we do.
On April 05 2009 20:37 Pika Chu wrote: Why not? You think they have no communication systems? No research programs?
And as i said, it's a big difference between launching a satellite (having the missile to launch it) and testing an ICBM.
Ah come on, why do they need icbms for japan or SK? They can throw a nuke there even by airplane.
and who made you the expert on ICBMs? Why are you trying to give an opinion on something you know nothing about? Thats like you telling a civil engineer how to build a bridge and criticizing him b/c you dont like the plans he made. Does that make any sense to you? Just b/c you're a human being and have an opinion, doesnt make it valid or real. If you dont know, keep your misguided opinions to yourself
On April 06 2009 00:12 kulik- wrote: Do u know that N.korea has fifth biggest army in the world?
Biggest does by no means mean the strongest. According to this page NK has about twice the US manpower (dunno what year those stats are from). Does it mean that NK would kick US ass? If you call people armed with pitch forks and knives an army, sweden has 9 million soldiers, ready to invade norway.
the fact that North Korea has used the same excuse (rocket to space) to cover up things in the past automatically puts them on the negative side of the issue.
On April 05 2009 15:58 The Storyteller wrote: Communications satellite? Who does N. Korea communicate with? And it's not like any of their people can afford mobile phones.
In 2012 their getting their first 3G network so you never know.
The way I see it, the missile itself is scary to some countries, like has been discussed before in this thread. The technology directly translates into military capabilities. As has also been said, it's not really the first country that pushes a space program.
What does scare me though, is who's doing it. Didn't the spokesman say to the discussions of shooting the missile down that - and I think I quote, at least to the word "fireball" - "the people's army will throw a fireball at whoever tries to stop the missile or other enemies" What kind of statement is that?
The exact statement should be easy to find on youtube/google... gimme a sec..
edit: ok, so I checked it up. The first time I saw it at the morning news, they actually used the word fireball - while that may have been inaccurate, I found another translation as following: "If Japan attacks our peaceful satellite, the people's army of North Korea will retaliate with lethal blows not only to that instance, but also to vital key targets throughout Japan" Further on: "USA should immediately pull back their military presence, unless they are to be attacked during the armed effort to protect North Koreas peaceful satellite launch.
On April 05 2009 18:15 Cesar2000 wrote: I wish it were a bomb just so we could finally invade the damn shithole.
Is it just me or is there really an influx of subpar posts coming from newbies that probably joined TL after they saw that we owned the other foreign-based SC fan sites..?
it's not just u, they r just stupid, silly, or in need of some serious help
On April 05 2009 23:17 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote: here is the japan plan to intercept possible NK Threats
rofl... win
On April 06 2009 00:12 kulik- wrote: Do u know that N.korea has fifth biggest army in the world?
They all have the power to regulate N. Korea, they just don't care enough to. Other countries always underestimate America's willingness to use force, especially with a Democrat in office, but if Kim or whoever is in charge now keeps pushing, it'll be the last mistake they ever make.
On April 06 2009 03:15 Jibba wrote: They all have the power to regulate N. Korea, they just don't care enough to. Other countries always underestimate America's willingness to use force, especially with a Democrat in office, but if Kim or whoever is in charge now keeps pushing, it'll be the last mistake they ever make.
maybe china is regulating? China is the rock in this economic storm. If they create even more instability, who is to gain? Can we fight a war on 3 fronts?
If China caused the USD to drop, their holdings and reserves would go to shit. China doesn't want instability. They're still growing, but it's down significantly and they still have more people to satisfy, plus their population is aging (always a bad sign) and they need to find a solution for the coming health care problems, besides letting old people die.
On April 05 2009 15:47 Folca wrote: Attention Whores.
Actually yes, that's right. They want to scare the world in order to have more weight in negociations. This is meant to show the power of their military and that other countries should be weary of them. I guess it's like a poisonous snake having bright colours to say "I will make your blood boil and you will suffocate while breathing if you mess with me".
Well, obviously nothing bad happened due to them launching a satellite. What i find funny is that they didn't tell the rest of the world until everyone saw it. I think they were actually trying to provoke the sort of reaction they got, just so they could defend themselves.
you know, maybe we're the ones brainwashed and the internet is a complete fabrication. nothing we know is true and north korea is the sole bearer of truth in an otherwise false world! dun dun dun dunnnn
On April 06 2009 03:15 Jibba wrote: They all have the power to regulate N. Korea, they just don't care enough to. Other countries always underestimate America's willingness to use force, especially with a Democrat in office, but if Kim or whoever is in charge now keeps pushing, it'll be the last mistake they ever make.
no not exactly... i think the only reason they are doing this is to tempt everyone to a fight, they want so desperately to be attacked
On April 05 2009 15:58 The Storyteller wrote: Communications satellite? Who does N. Korea communicate with? And it's not like any of their people can afford mobile phones.
On April 06 2009 06:14 jello_biafra wrote: The UN security council is now having an emergency meeting to discuss this NK rocket launch. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7984635.stm It looks like KJI has just made things even worse for North Korea.
Seriously, it's just a regional issue. If the Western nations would just butt out. Stupid arrogant politicians. You'd think that they'd have too much time on their hands - wait they do because the UN is such a stupid waste of money.
On April 05 2009 15:29 Xeris wrote: everyone's going nuts! North Korea launched a rocket! OH NOESSSSSSSS!!!
(http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/index.html for details, I guess)
Honestly, do people really think there is a missile attached to it and that North Korea is going to attack anybody? Maybe I'm just skeptical at this stage and I frankly don't think a major conflict will break out in the world for a long time, and if it does it will be initiated by a much larger power such as Russia, China, or the United States. Personally, I think they just want to get a satellite up in space, it's a pretty big thing for a country to have a space program and launch a satellite successfully, and fuck it why can't they? It was the same thing with Iran's satellite (launched about a month ago)... big fuss ultimately for nothing.
Just because North Korea is run by a crazy fuck doesn't mean everything the country does is evil and maliciously planned. Let them have their rocket in space!
That country isn't rich enough to have a maintained space program.
Its definitely for military purposes.
Hell even the space programs of russia and the usa during the cold war were just pc fronts for missle/rocket programs. They weren't only for that but it was a big part of the motivation behind it.
On April 06 2009 06:14 jello_biafra wrote: The UN security council is now having an emergency meeting to discuss this NK rocket launch. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7984635.stm It looks like KJI has just made things even worse for North Korea.
Seriously, it's just a regional issue. If the Western nations would just butt out. Stupid arrogant politicians. You'd think that they'd have too much time on their hands - wait they do because the UN is such a stupid waste of money.
On April 06 2009 06:41 Jibba wrote: Yeah, those damn Western nations like Japan, S. Korea and Singapore. Why don't they just stay in their own region???
I'm talking about the EU. US only has skins in the game because they have 40k soldiers still stationed in Korea. If it were up to the Japanese, Chinese, and South Korea, they could have solved the issue by now instead of dragging out so long because they can count on foisting the cost of resolution on the US - which by the way always seems to take half measures so the problem never seems to go away.
On April 06 2009 06:14 jello_biafra wrote: The UN security council is now having an emergency meeting to discuss this NK rocket launch. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7984635.stm It looks like KJI has just made things even worse for North Korea.
Seriously, it's just a regional issue. If the Western nations would just butt out. Stupid arrogant politicians. You'd think that they'd have too much time on their hands - wait they do because the UN is such a stupid waste of money.
So stupid lol. Are you trolling?
The UN is a useless body. Name one part of their charter they've managed to achieve in recent decades.
War and possible genocide in Sudan - nothing Food for Oil in Iraq - corruption War in Iraq - useless bystander Israel - Palestine - no end in sight Rwanda - not effective
Anything else meaningful? In a way it's better though, because if the UN had real power, it'd turn out as disastrous as US's adventure Iraq or its own Food-for-oil program. Furthermore, it's not like the debate over any of these issues shed any real light or promoted any kind of real resolution. Instead, there are conflict of interests in the judges so the UN just becomes a mouthpiece for one of the biased parties.
Ok, so for argument sake its a regional issue, NK doesn't listen to anyone in that region except for China--I guess??(is there someone else capable?). So the responsibility ultimately falls to China to stop them or enforce some type of measure or do anything(slap on the hands included) but China couldn't care less unless it affects them in some way and whats the only way it will effect China?
...
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Did you guess Western Influence/Support? Oh shit.
You are just one hell of a de-centralization person... no UN. Blasphemer! UN is the embodiment of an idea that has been around for a very long time in Europe. Small nations banded together against larger nations. Nations are reluctant to carry out the organizations' will so you can imagine why the UN itself is not very 'meaningful' as you put it. Humans, as it were, seem to be incapable of seeing the future and past so you blame a good idea carried out poorly. Why don't you sign (enlist) yourself up and give them a hand? According to you they could sure use it.
It was up to Japan, China and the Korean peninsula and this came about:
Have you ever heard of NEATO? North East Asian Treaty Organization. Probably not, because it was an abject failure. It was supposed to be a joint security force between the US, Japan, ROK and ROC (Taiwan.) It failed for a number of reasons, but one of the leading ones was that the US could not get the other three countries to cooperate together. Do you really think S. Koreans and Japanese will lock hands with N. Koreans on their own? Remember, N. Korea attacked first, against Mao's and Stalin's advice.
The fact of the matter is that the S. Korean and Japanese governments want us there, and Japan is the country that petitioned for this emergency Security Council meeting - not the "West." They can live with the occasional strong arming and rape, as long as we're preventing invasion, which we have.
You are just one hell of a de-centralization person... no UN. Blasphemer! UN is the embodiment of an idea that has been around for a very long time in Europe. Small nations banded together against larger nations. Nations are reluctant to carry out the organizations' will so you can imagine why the UN itself is not very 'meaningful' as you put it. Humans, as it were, seem to be incapable of seeing the future and past so you blame a good idea carried out poorly. Why don't you sign (enlist) yourself up and give them a hand? According to you they could sure use it.
They could use it. The UN does a terrible job and squanders lots of money. Humans see the future and past, but there's still good reason not to trust eachother. A regional centralized body like the EU has enough difficulty with enforcement and reaching consensus, the UN does a much worse job and with less intelligent people.
It's more like the UN was formed with the intention to give the NATO (well, western) countries a way to mobilize world support against the soviet union. Look on who has veto right in the security council; USA, GBR, FRA, RUS (previous soviet of course) and CHI. China wasn't even allowed in initially because america did not accept the communist government, instead supporting the exile government on taiwan. So it was USA GBR FRA vs SOV. The soviet boycott (spelling?) due to this US + puppet dommination put the UN firmly in america's reins.
The west, myself included, being a swede, are constantly spoon fed with the righteousness of the UN, yet it is only a relic of the cold war with no actual power over anything. None of the world powers (US, RUS, CHI, ...) would never give in to rulings by the UN even if the veto right was removed, they would simply leave in protest. Do you think the US would cancel its war on Iraq because of UN dislike?
On April 06 2009 08:32 Bob123 wrote: It's more like the UN was formed with the intention to give the NATO (well, western) countries a way to mobilize world support against the soviet union. Look on who has veto right in the security council; USA, GBR, FRA, RUS (previous soviet of course) and CHI. China wasn't even allowed in initially because america did not accept the communist government, instead supporting the exile government on taiwan. So it was USA GBR FRA vs SOV. The soviet boycott (spelling?) due to this US + puppet dommination put the UN firmly in america's reins.
The west, myself included, being a swede, are constantly spoon fed with the righteousness of the UN, yet it is only a relic of the cold war with no actual power over anything. None of the world powers (US, RUS, CHI, ...) would never give in to rulings by the UN even if the veto right was removed, they would simply leave in protest. Do you think the US would cancel its war on Iraq because of UN dislike?
Those countries were chosen because they were the main victors of World War 2 and I think the UN's original purpose was probably mainly to try and bring these countries closer together. The UN was set up with good intentions of maintaining world peace and such but just never actually became what it was supposed to and now it's basically all talk no action.
Ok, so for argument sake its a regional issue, NK doesn't listen to anyone in that region except for China--I guess??(is there someone else capable?). So the responsibility ultimately falls to China to stop them or enforce some type of measure or do anything(slap on the hands included) but China couldn't care less unless it affects them in some way and whats the only way it will effect China?
... ... ...
Did you guess Western Influence/Support? Oh shit.
You are just one hell of a de-centralization person... no UN. Blasphemer! UN is the embodiment of an idea that has been around for a very long time in Europe. Small nations banded together against larger nations. Nations are reluctant to carry out the organizations' will so you can imagine why the UN itself is not very 'meaningful' as you put it. Humans, as it were, seem to be incapable of seeing the future and past so you blame a good idea carried out poorly. Why don't you sign (enlist) yourself up and give them a hand? According to you they could sure use it.
Ineffectiveness of UN aside. Beijing is now the problem and not Pyonggang? North Korea is a small country and usually suffers from famine (fault of its own leadership) so it'd be easy to pressure North Korea, but now you're saying that North Korea is doing this because Beijing told them to do it??? Evidence please.
Besides the most effective way to pressure China is not through a body in which China holds veto rights. It's through trade, and Japan and Korea are in excellent position to do it. Japan is #3 in Chinese exports and China also trades extensively with South Korea. In fact, North Korea's disruption of trade with its military exercises will eventually force China's hand. That day will happen earlier if the US decides to back away from the negotiation table. (US is in no position to threaten China on trade, and EU is in a fairly poor position as well - both economies are too reliant on cheap imports.)
I don't see good idea carried out poorly. I see an ill-conceived plan that reeks of imperial hubris that should not be carried out at all.
UN is also an ill-conceived organization that shouldn't exist. Most UN resolutions are not even slaps on the wrist.
"small nations band together against larger nations" - what?? Tell me why 5 large powerful nations have veto rights. I must have miss understood the UN charter. WTF! such nonsense.
On April 06 2009 08:21 Jibba wrote: The fact of the matter is that the S. Korean and Japanese governments want us there, and Japan is the country that petitioned for this emergency Security Council meeting - not the "West." They can live with the occasional strong arming and rape, as long as we're preventing invasion, which we have.
I think it's another way of dragging US and EU into the North Korea problem when US and EU should be running away as fast as possible. US is still in Korea with its 40k troops in SK (dated 2007 - supposedly drawn down to 25k in 2009, but not sure) 50 years after the Korea armistice. US has 50k in Japan (data 2007- another draw down also requested) over 60 after the end of WWII. How ridiculous.
Japan and South Korea need to work together and US coddling gets in the way of forcing them to resolve their infighting.
Let me put it this way: Should US and EU bailout South Korea, China and Japan in its problems with North Korea? Japan certainly would love a bailout. Do you oblige?
Stated Purpose of UN for those who need to find out: + Show Spoiler +
Article 1 The Purposes of the United Nations are:
1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace; 2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; 3. To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and 4. To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.
Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members. 2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter. 3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered. 4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations. 5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action. 6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security. 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
Article 1 sounds great, but the UN is just a soapbox (propaganda machine) for certain countries, and the one time it had profound effect, the US led coalition escalated the Korean War! North Korea started the war.
I agree that UN is somehow useless as it is. It would need a big reform to make it useful.
But really, what do you think UN could do here? Afaik they already have a total trade embargo on them (which in my opinion is a very bad move). What do you want them to do? Attack north korea because they wanna have missiles?
On April 06 2009 09:17 Pika Chu wrote: I agree that UN is somehow useless as it is. It would need a big reform to make it useful.
But really, what do you think UN could do here? Afaik they already have a total trade embargo on them (which in my opinion is a very bad move). What do you want them to do? Attack north korea because they wanna have missiles?
UN: repeal its own charter + do nothing.
I agree UN trade embargoes are counterproductive. Also pretty sure that UN does have trade sanctions on the DPRK.
On April 06 2009 08:56 TanGeng wrote: Stated Purpose of UN for those who need to find out: + Show Spoiler +
Article 1 The Purposes of the United Nations are:
1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace; 2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; 3. To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and 4. To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.
Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members. 2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter. 3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered. 4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations. 5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action. 6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security. 7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
Article 1 sounds great, but the UN is just a soapbox (propaganda machine) for certain countries, and the one time it had profound effect, the US led coalition escalated the Korean War! North Korea started the war.
Article 2 is just laughable.
The aims of the UN are noble, the countries that participate in it are not. Though in its defense it was a great amount more successful than the first attempt at collective security; the league.
Ok, so for argument sake its a regional issue, NK doesn't listen to anyone in that region except for China--I guess??(is there someone else capable?). So the responsibility ultimately falls to China to stop them or enforce some type of measure or do anything(slap on the hands included) but China couldn't care less unless it affects them in some way and whats the only way it will effect China?
... ... ...
Did you guess Western Influence/Support? Oh shit.
You are just one hell of a de-centralization person... no UN. Blasphemer! UN is the embodiment of an idea that has been around for a very long time in Europe. Small nations banded together against larger nations. Nations are reluctant to carry out the organizations' will so you can imagine why the UN itself is not very 'meaningful' as you put it. Humans, as it were, seem to be incapable of seeing the future and past so you blame a good idea carried out poorly. Why don't you sign (enlist) yourself up and give them a hand? According to you they could sure use it.
Ineffectiveness of UN aside. Beijing is now the problem and not Pyonggang? North Korea is a small country and usually suffers from famine (fault of its own leadership) so it'd be easy to pressure North Korea, but now you're saying that North Korea is doing this because Beijing told them to do it??? Evidence please.
Besides the most effective way to pressure China is not through a body in which China holds veto rights. It's through trade, and Japan and Korea are in excellent position to do it. Japan is #3 in Chinese exports and China also trades extensively with South Korea. In fact, North Korea's disruption of trade with its military exercises will eventually force China's hand. That day will happen earlier if the US decides to back away from the negotiation table. (US is in no position to threaten China on trade, and EU is in a fairly poor position as well - both economies are too reliant on cheap imports.)
I don't see good idea carried out poorly. I see an ill-conceived plan that reeks of imperial hubris that should not be carried out at all.
UN is also an ill-conceived organization that shouldn't exist. Most UN resolutions are not even slaps on the wrist.
"small nations band together against larger nations" - what?? Tell me why 5 large powerful nations have veto rights. I must have miss understood the UN charter. WTF! such nonsense.
No, I actually didn't say N. Korea is doing this because Beijing told them to do it.
Trade is the thing I was actually getting at. Extensive trading isn't ~8%. ~8% of exports for the year 2007. ~4% for S. Korea. (I'm assuming you're using Wiki for your sources.) Do you know what happens with a number that small in exports? They go to another country. When a trade agreement is broken, its not like the good production is halted and there is no one else to deliver to internationally. Who wouldn't want relations with China, if not just for their goods? That's reality.
Besides Japan isn't likely to stop trading with China over N. Korean diplomatic relations. Don't you recall this happening in 2006? It wasn't the Japanese who put the pressure on... How likely are you to stop a bully from acting out if you tell his neighbor that hes responsible and you 'threaten' the neighbor who dominates you in every way possible and could do without your lawn mower for a few months? Who is so against your way of life because of past events the dust in the air would gladly invade your home to get revenge/vengeance. No that is not likely at all you can agree. Japanese goods are very prized but you will do well to realize that nations intentions even in this century are not motivated by trade when you're a superpower. China is a P5 in the UN, veto rights as you mentioned it, I would have to say this relationship with the west is important to China but that's a educated guess. You have to remember there are advisors to national leaders who are more gifted than you or I are and these scenarios do come up... if you still draw a blank why I bother posting; I hope to engulf you in reality.
In 1945'ish or 1954'ish we didn't have any trade relations with China and our economy boomed. It is a possibility the US could make a threat to cancel trade relations but I can't see that happening like you suggest. We've even sanctioned them after this in the 1980's with the human rights violations. More evidenced is witnessed because of the trade deficit in the US and the fact that trade relations are not so strong currently indicating the reliance is not with the US but with China.
N. Korea has forced China's hand in the past and like I said China will not make a move unless it has a [personal interest] to do so. You cannot count on this type of leadership is the reality.
You need to re-affirm your position, the de-centralist persona is leaking out like harmful radiation. The UN was created in an attempt to avoid World War 3 and subsequently armed conflicts around the globe. Are you going to sit there and pretend you're not batshit insane while stubbornly opposing humanities attempt to correct its mistakes, like this is the embodiment of evil ideas come to fruition?
That is the good idea behind the UN. Everything you've argued against is the argument for; a good idea but carried out poorly...
When/if the UN disbands there will be a 3rd attempt at this idea and my money is on '3rd times a charm'.
there is no guarantee that the problem is going to solve itself. China wants north korea to be exist, china's not going to do anything. and now with the nuke north korea is pretty much untouchable. and their way of surviving by threatening with nukes and getting aid from other countries will have to end at one point another and we just have to hope that nukes don't come to play at some point.
I'm not sure if China is too happy about North Korea now. Yeah, back in the 50s and 60s, China wanted NK as a buffer, but now, I don't think any country wants a country like NK with nukes.
The thing about the UN is that it's a bit like the electrical engineer who gets no credit when things go right, but gets the blame when things go wrong. if it prevents conflict, nobody notices. If it fails to fix a conflict after it's started, everyone starts complaining. It's hard to figure out just what kind of impact it has had on world peace. For instance, its health programmes keep citizens healthier and more content than they would have been, and that is definitely good for stability.
As for North Korea, it's quite obvious that this is yet another instance of trying to get free aid. I think the rest of the world has more pressing problems on their hands, and is happy to buy North Korea off instead of calling their bluff and ending up with more uncertainty.
And with regards to America being involved, I am one hell of a glad that they are. South Korea has emotional ties to the North and it's not fair to ask them to solve a problem that might require some tough decisions. Japan doesn't even have a real army. And I would certainly not want the fate of Asia to rest in the hands of China.
It's rather hypocritical for the U.S. to have thousands of nuclear weapons and to have had them for over 60 years and yet still be against other countries gaining access to weapons. Let's not forget that the United States is the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb in a war.
Basically two guys go on a tour of North Korea. They use a hidden camera to record their journey. It is surreal.
Unfortunately, because the North Koreans take you to selected events and places, you're left wondering what life is like for the other 99% of the population that you don't get to see. Like, what do all these people do on an average day?
On April 06 2009 14:48 ghostWriter wrote: It's rather hypocritical for the U.S. to have thousands of nuclear weapons and to have had them for over 60 years and yet still be against other countries gaining access to weapons. Let's not forget that the United States is the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb in a war.
Only country to have had both the means and the war that merits using it. Rigged comparison. And the US has the maturity to be trusted with nukes, N Korea doesn't. It's not hypocritical for an adult to drive and be against a retarded child being behind the wheel of a car.
On April 06 2009 09:51 Xenixx wrote: You need to re-affirm your position, the de-centralist persona is leaking out like harmful radiation. The UN was created in an attempt to avoid World War 3 and subsequently armed conflicts around the globe. Are you going to sit there and pretend you're not batshit insane while stubbornly opposing humanities attempt to correct its mistakes, like this is the embodiment of evil ideas come to fruition?
That is the good idea behind the UN. Everything you've argued against is the argument for; a good idea but carried out poorly...
When/if the UN disbands there will be a 3rd attempt at this idea and my money is on '3rd times a charm'.
The core purpose of UN is perpetual peace and resolving conflict largely by means of peaceful means by all of the countries in the world. A nice lofty goal followed by stupid, stupid ideas.
There are some structural issues with the UN. Membership, veto rights, and a slew of other provisions protect the large permanent members of the UN security council and render it powerless one key issues and disinterested on other issues. This is not the core problem with UN.
Instead the real problem with the UN is its unrealistic, utopia, and imperialistic idea of how to solve conflicts: peaceful means (economic sanctions and bribes) and globalization (centralization).
Peaceful means has come to mean no arms, unless the arms are the UN peacekeeping force or the army of one of the member nations (usually US). UN has never valued the virtue of self-defense in the people it claims to want to help. It will not give money to the persecuted assaulted nation for hiring mercenaries that will protect it or for arming training an army that will protect it. Should armed forces be dispatched, the armed forces are not accountable to the persecuted population.
The UN peacekeeping forces might be a token of action and huddle in the safety of its own bunkers, or the US military will go about furthering other US interests in the area, or the foreign military will perversely visit in its own persecution on the local population in the form of theft, rape, and murder - in the name of the UN and immune from accountability.
Self-determination (de-centralization - whatever you want to call it) is a far more effective approach to resolving conflict than a centralized approach. In the centralized approach, the influential powers of the globe are more likely to fan the flames of conflict and sacrifice individual countries as little pawns in their game of power and influence. Peace-lovers who buy into the centralized approach will further this immoral and destructive outcome, and for this reason I am glad that the UN is largely a powerless entity. Its destruction otherwise might be unfathomable. Self-determination on the other hand puts the power in the people most interested in seeing a permanent resolution to the problem. If I wear self-determination on my sleeve, I wear it proudly because its counterpart, centralized power, has and will always inflict disaster on the weaker nations of the world.
The best part of the UN is that it is a forum for peace. It's a place where private individuals will have an audience for talking about the atrocities committed by various nations of the world. Yet, they waste their breath on the ears on national representatives whose sponsors are not champions of peace but more often than not cynical and war-hungry individuals. They might be telling their story to the exact nations that want to see said atrocities continue to happen. That ultimately the real tragedy of the UN: So many good intentions of so many good men wasted.
On April 06 2009 10:15 ItchReliever wrote: there is no guarantee that the problem is going to solve itself. China wants north korea to be exist, china's not going to do anything. and now with the nuke north korea is pretty much untouchable. and their way of surviving by threatening with nukes and getting aid from other countries will have to end at one point another and we just have to hope that nukes don't come to play at some point.
China doesn't want to see North Korea to collapse because it will mean a million or so refugees along its border. That's the event they don't want to see happen. But the North Korean regime is going to collapse eventually. I hope the Chinese are just buying time so they can be prepared, and if they aren't then someone should go there and convince them to prepare.
China also doesn't want to see a US force on its border. So strangely, the US troops in South Korea give China reason to prop up the Pyongyang government. As for the effect of the nuke, it means North Korea will not be invaded. It will fall apart from internal strife.
On April 06 2009 14:48 ghostWriter wrote: It's rather hypocritical for the U.S. to have thousands of nuclear weapons and to have had them for over 60 years and yet still be against other countries gaining access to weapons. Let's not forget that the United States is the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb in a war.
Only country to have had both the means and the war that merits using it. Rigged comparison. And the US has the maturity to be trusted with nukes, N Korea doesn't. It's not hypocritical for an adult to drive and be against a retarded child being behind the wheel of a car.
Come on..
The U.S dropped those 2 nukes for purely research and revenge. There was no need to drop one let alone two nukes of differing designs on a populated a region.
A simple request for a delegation to see a nuclear detonation would have ended the war.
On April 06 2009 14:48 ghostWriter wrote: It's rather hypocritical for the U.S. to have thousands of nuclear weapons and to have had them for over 60 years and yet still be against other countries gaining access to weapons. Let's not forget that the United States is the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb in a war.
Only country to have had both the means and the war that merits using it. Rigged comparison. And the US has the maturity to be trusted with nukes, N Korea doesn't. It's not hypocritical for an adult to drive and be against a retarded child being behind the wheel of a car.
Come on..
The U.S dropped those 2 nukes for purely research and revenge. There was no need to drop one let alone two nukes of differing designs on a populated a region.
A simple request for a delegation to see a nuclear detonation would have ended the war.
Yeah, because the Japanese definitely would have accepted that delegation!
On April 06 2009 14:48 ghostWriter wrote: It's rather hypocritical for the U.S. to have thousands of nuclear weapons and to have had them for over 60 years and yet still be against other countries gaining access to weapons. Let's not forget that the United States is the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb in a war.
Only country to have had both the means and the war that merits using it. Rigged comparison. And the US has the maturity to be trusted with nukes, N Korea doesn't. It's not hypocritical for an adult to drive and be against a retarded child being behind the wheel of a car.
Come on..
The U.S dropped those 2 nukes for purely research and revenge. There was no need to drop one let alone two nukes of differing designs on a populated a region.
A simple request for a delegation to see a nuclear detonation would have ended the war.
Those are not at all the reasons the US dropped the bombs. Either way, it is a bit hypocritical, but that's why we're in talks for START II and if Obama smartly backs down on Poland's missile shield, both the US and Russia will continue reducing our nuclear arms.
Let avoid making this another Hiroshima debate thread. o.O
aww i can't find that one image where its a missle flying around uselessly ... kinda likea ballon getting released - it flew around everywhere and then two politicians are like... maybe we should encourage north korea to sell their weapons to our enemiesXD
A North Korean diplomat warns "strong steps" would follow should the UN take action against the country after its launch of a satellite on Sunday.
The UN Security Council has been debating whether North Korea should be punished for the launch.
The US, Japan and key European powers say the launch was a ballistic test in clear violation of a UN resolution.
China and Russia have been more cautious, saying they are yet to be convinced Pyongyang broke the rules.
Pyongyang says the test of the three-stage Taepodong-2 rocket was a success, putting a satellite into orbit which is now transmitting data and revolutionary songs.
A North Korean diplomat warns "strong steps" would follow should the UN take action against the country after its launch of a satellite on Sunday.
The UN Security Council has been debating whether North Korea should be punished for the launch.
The US, Japan and key European powers say the launch was a ballistic test in clear violation of a UN resolution.
China and Russia have been more cautious, saying they are yet to be convinced Pyongyang broke the rules.
Pyongyang says the test of the three-stage Taepodong-2 rocket was a success, putting a satellite into orbit which is now transmitting data and revolutionary songs.
Don't worry everyone - they were only setting up North Korea's own Sirius radio system! Revolutionary songs for all of the impoverished commonfolk!
Every time North Korea does stuff like this I just cannot force myself to take them seriously.
A bit like when an American satellite mysteriously falls out of orbit and the American armed forces are forced to blast it out the sky to stop the debris from falling on people. A missile test like that would normally be against the International treaty.
Or how about when the American armed forces mysteriously blow up the Chinese embassy while attempting to bomb strategic military targets.
A North Korean diplomat warns "strong steps" would follow should the UN take action against the country after its launch of a satellite on Sunday.
The UN Security Council has been debating whether North Korea should be punished for the launch.
The US, Japan and key European powers say the launch was a ballistic test in clear violation of a UN resolution.
China and Russia have been more cautious, saying they are yet to be convinced Pyongyang broke the rules.
Pyongyang says the test of the three-stage Taepodong-2 rocket was a success, putting a satellite into orbit which is now transmitting data and revolutionary songs.
Don't worry everyone - they were only setting up North Korea's own Sirius radio system! Revolutionary songs for all of the impoverished commonfolk!
Every time North Korea does stuff like this I just cannot force myself to take them seriously.
A bit like when an American satellite mysteriously falls out of orbit and the American armed forces are forced to blast it out the sky to stop the debris from falling on people. A missile test like that would normally be against the International treaty.
Or how about when the American armed forces mysteriously blow up the Chinese embassy while attempting to bomb strategic military targets.
Dude I'm not condoning/condemning what the U.S. or North Korean governments practices of international law have been.
I just find these comments by North Korean officials that are filled with this sort of happy go lucky shit hilarious. If they want to go ahead and insist that the rocket was launched with nothing but peaceful intentions, that's fine, just don't give this bullshit excuse that it's for "revolutionary songs."
A North Korean diplomat warns "strong steps" would follow should the UN take action against the country after its launch of a satellite on Sunday.
The UN Security Council has been debating whether North Korea should be punished for the launch.
The US, Japan and key European powers say the launch was a ballistic test in clear violation of a UN resolution.
China and Russia have been more cautious, saying they are yet to be convinced Pyongyang broke the rules.
Pyongyang says the test of the three-stage Taepodong-2 rocket was a success, putting a satellite into orbit which is now transmitting data and revolutionary songs.
Don't worry everyone - they were only setting up North Korea's own Sirius radio system! Revolutionary songs for all of the impoverished commonfolk!
Every time North Korea does stuff like this I just cannot force myself to take them seriously.
A bit like when an American satellite mysteriously falls out of orbit and the American armed forces are forced to blast it out the sky to stop the debris from falling on people. A missile test like that would normally be against the International treaty.
Or how about when the American armed forces mysteriously blow up the Chinese embassy while attempting to bomb strategic military targets.
Dude I'm not condoning/condemning what the U.S. or North Korean governments practices of international law have been.
I just find these comments by North Korean officials that are filled with this sort of happy go lucky shit hilarious. If they want to go ahead and insist that the rocket was launched with nothing but peaceful intentions, that's fine, just don't give this bullshit excuse that it's for "revolutionary songs."
Sorry, I just don't see how it's funny myself. It's just the usual bullshit, plausible deniability.
EPT
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