EPTsigh... i hope its not someone i know.
edit: one person confirmed dead, shot 6 times in the chest.
Shooting at my college
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11595 Posts
sigh... i hope its not someone i know. edit: one person confirmed dead, shot 6 times in the chest. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/199821 I hope everyone is ok...  | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11595 Posts
On April 03 2009 11:27 Lemonwalrus wrote: The news article makes it sound like he just discharged the firearm, and didn't shoot anybody, hopefully that is the case. thats what makes it confusing. my RA told me someone was shot, and that says someone just shot the gun in the air or something. i hope that is just the case though. | ||
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iloveHieu
United States1919 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
That sucks =/ Hope everything goes well! | ||
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
Thought you were done w/smoking btw lol | ||
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omninmo
2349 Posts
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
And on that note, a few weeks ago a guy was stabbed in the face at my school, and a few days later some students got mugged at gunpoint by two guys on campus. Sigh. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On April 03 2009 12:41 ghermination wrote: Thats pretty crazy, why are there so many school shootings in america? This isnt at all the same as some kid walking into his high school and shooting people. If its just a single person who was shot then you must think that it could of happened anywhere and that it randomly occurred on campus. If you get enough people together in an area someone is going to kill someone else. Its sad, but thats just how things are. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/02/radford-university-locked-down-after-shooting-death-near-campus/ | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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skuj
United States302 Posts
On April 03 2009 12:49 nemY wrote: News reports suggest that the victim was killed http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/02/radford-university-locked-down-after-shooting-death-near-campus/ says it was off campus too, but the guy fled to the campus. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On April 03 2009 12:49 nemY wrote: News reports suggest that the victim was killed http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/02/radford-university-locked-down-after-shooting-death-near-campus/ Poor guy | ||
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11595 Posts
On April 03 2009 11:36 Resonance wrote: dang.... Thought you were done w/smoking btw lol on my last carton! after this i'm done. | ||
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11595 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Ha.cK
United States271 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9107 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On April 03 2009 13:21 Ha.cK wrote: Radford is only 15 miles away from Virginia Tech where I'm going next year. D: | ||
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skuj
United States302 Posts
On April 03 2009 13:24 Jonoman92 wrote: God I know this is really random but if you shoot a bullet straight up in the air from an average pistol how long will it take to come back to the ground? Granted it will have traveled due to wind and stuff. the mythbusters did it once, but i dont recall how long it took. it might be on the net somewhere. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
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Falcynn
United States3597 Posts
On April 03 2009 13:24 Jonoman92 wrote: I got curious after reading this and looked it up. I didn't find any definitive proof/experiments, but accounts from random people's experiences says that it takes roughly 7-10 seconds. Also in case anyone is wondering, it's unlikely a falling bullet will have enough force to kill you, but it's still possible.God I know this is really random but if you shoot a bullet straight up in the air from an average pistol how long will it take to come back to the ground? Granted it will have traveled due to wind and stuff. | ||
Mista
Singapore1022 Posts
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
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tttt
United States386 Posts
Hopefully they get that legislature through, so if there are issues in the future, students can take matters into their own hands. | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:05 tttt wrote: Not sure about the laws in VA., but here in South Carolina and in Texas the houses are working on having state schools respect concealed carry permits on campus. Hopefully they get that legislature through, so if there are issues in the future, students can take matters into their own hands. Yea, so in the future when a dude with a temper finds out the guy 2 doors down in his dorm fucked his GF he has access to a gun close by. | ||
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tttt
United States386 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:14 Bosu wrote: Yea, so in the future when a dude with a temper finds out the guy 2 doors down in his dorm fucked his GF he has access to a gun close by. How many times has your poorly phrased scenario been played out in American Universities? If you want to live in a society without gun rights, feel free to fuck off to Europe. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On April 03 2009 12:52 BlackJack wrote: glad to see they are taking crap seriously since VTech. some guy gets shot a couple blocks away from campus and the whole school goes on lockdown :O | ||
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Flyingdutchman
Netherlands858 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:05 tttt wrote: Hopefully they get that legislature through, so if there are issues in the future, students can take matters into their own hands. Although this is a very serious subject, I laughed out loud after reading the above. Seriously, who can think this would make things better? Even for the fact that taking things in one own hands will probably always be afterwards but w/e. Haven't heard anything about it in Holland though, surprising since school shootings are generally taken up by the media pretty quick nowadays On April 03 2009 15:26 tttt wrote: How many times has your poorly phrased scenario been played out in American Universities? If you want to live in a society without gun rights, feel free to fuck off to Europe. Countries in Europe do have laws that permit you to having guns, it is just a little harder to get one. My country requires mandatory membership to a gunclub for a year before you can get a license and even then you still have to pass a background check etc. The kid who shot loads of people in Germany few weeks back had acces to a lot of firepower due to his dad being a gun nut... To each his own, I actually love guns but I wouldn't want to live in a society where just about everybody has acces to them. | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:36 Flyingdutchman wrote: To each his own, I actually love guns but I wouldn't want to live in a society where just about everybody has acces to them. Even in the US, your odds of being shot are insignificant compared to the odds of dying during everyday activities like driving a car. | ||
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11595 Posts
On April 03 2009 12:52 BlackJack wrote: glad to see they are taking crap seriously since VTech. some guy gets shot a couple blocks away from campus and the whole school goes on lockdown it really is pretty much on campus, it's literally across a 2 lane road road... | ||
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SayaSP
Laos5494 Posts
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tttt
United States386 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:36 Flyingdutchman wrote: Although this is a very serious subject, I laughed out loud after reading the above. Seriously, who can think this would make things better? Even for the fact that taking things in one own hands will probably always be afterwards but w/e. Haven't heard anything about it in Holland though, surprising since school shootings are generally taken up by the media pretty quick nowadays Countries in Europe do have laws that permit you to having guns, it is just a little harder to get one. My country requires mandatory membership to a gunclub for a year before you can get a license and even then you still have to pass a background check etc. The kid who shot loads of people in Germany few weeks back had acces to a lot of firepower due to his dad being a gun nut... To each his own, I actually love guns but I wouldn't want to live in a society where just about everybody has acces to them. The differences in the demographic criminal profile of a country like yours (which, for your information I had the pleasure of spending 2 months in) and the United States, are vast. For better or for worse, the US isn't Europe. I have twice found it necessary to use a firearm to protect my property and my person. I'm not quite sure how you equate "everybody having acces[sic]" to the current policies that are enacted in the laws of even the most lenient of US states. The difference is that our constitution affords non-felons the right to avoid harassment and unreasonable Federal jurisdiction over their fundamental right to protect themselves, their family and their property. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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Flyingdutchman
Netherlands858 Posts
On April 03 2009 17:38 tttt wrote: The differences in the demographic criminal profile of a country like yours (which, for your information I had the pleasure of spending 2 months in) and the United States, are vast. For better or for worse, the US isn't Europe. I have twice found it necessary to use a firearm to protect my property and my person. I'm not quite sure how you equate "everybody having acces[sic]" to the current policies that are enacted in the laws of even the most lenient of US states. The difference is that our constitution affords non-felons the right to avoid harassment and unreasonable Federal jurisdiction over their fundamental right to protect themselves, their family and their property. "Everybody having acces" may be a bit over the top, sorry for that... As I said, to each his own, and I also acknowledge that even guns laws can't prevent guns falling into the wrong hands. I'm guessing the majority of gun owners in NL don't have a permit. It's just kind of a scary thought to me, but I of course don't know how life in the U.S. is. I was born and raised in South Africa, if the situation in your country would have been as bad as it is there then I could understand the need to carry a firearm...I went to New York last year, walking around (Manhattan) at 4 am in the morning feeling perfectly safe. I wouldn't even dream of doing that in ANY part of Johannesburg for example. And glad to hear your stay here was pleasureable edit: typo's etc | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
On April 03 2009 12:41 ghermination wrote: Thats pretty crazy, why are there so many school shootings in america? There aren't. First, this one was simply one person shooting another, not a massacre - which will happen sometimes in an area with many people, regardless of it being a school or not. Second, the ones who go into the school and shoot at numerous people is extremely rare. It's more than other countries perhaps, but it's definitely not common. | ||
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:05 tttt wrote: Not sure about the laws in VA., but here in South Carolina and in Texas the houses are working on having state schools respect concealed carry permits on campus. Hopefully they get that legislature through, so if there are issues in the future, students can take matters into their own hands. ugh im not sure i'd feel comfortable on campus with this. | ||
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:05 tttt wrote: Not sure about the laws in VA., but here in South Carolina and in Texas the houses are working on having state schools respect concealed carry permits on campus. Hopefully they get that legislature through, so if there are issues in the future, students can take matters into their own hands. Let's hope that does not pass, for the sake of all humanity.. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32130 Posts
On April 03 2009 12:52 BlackJack wrote: glad to see they are taking crap seriously since VTech. some guy gets shot a couple blocks away from campus and the whole school goes on lockdown Yeah, really. It's incredible how poorly handled that situation was. Somewhat related: What's your school's policy on bomb threats? Because in the past year, mine's remained open when there was a credible enough threat to have nearly 100 fucking cops and goddamn snipers on the bell towers. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10870 Posts
What shall they do? Shoot the Bomb? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32130 Posts
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
On April 03 2009 22:04 Hans-Titan wrote: Let's hope that does not pass, for the sake of all humanity.. Texans blowing each others away? Sounds like evolution in effect to me. | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
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LordWeird
United States3411 Posts
The victim is in my prayers | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 04 2009 02:09 Kennelie wrote: Yea here in Texas they are contemplating whether or not teachers would be able to carry a firearm onto campus. But that brings up more concerns whether or not a student would get ahold of it.... They could give teachers who asked for it security training and then have their pay raised for carrying a gun to school, would be much cheaper than hiring real security guys. | ||
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NoNameLoser
United States1508 Posts
On April 03 2009 14:36 Falcynn wrote: I got curious after reading this and looked it up. I didn't find any definitive proof/experiments, but accounts from random people's experiences says that it takes roughly 7-10 seconds. Also in case anyone is wondering, it's unlikely a falling bullet will have enough force to kill you, but it's still possible. I remember that mythbusters episode, i think it was around 10 seconds. Now what they did find out is if the gun is shot straight up, bullet eventually drops like a stone and wont have enough energy to kill. But if the gun is shot at a slight angle, bullet will keep its trajectory and will have the force to kill. Given that its almost impossible to shoot a gun straight up with no equipment... i would find some cover. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:26 tttt wrote: How many times has your poorly phrased scenario been played out in American Universities? If you want to live in a society without gun rights, feel free to fuck off to Europe. It feels so safe here in finland ^_^ | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:26 tttt wrote: How many times has your poorly phrased scenario been played out in American Universities? If you want to live in a society without gun rights, feel free to fuck off to Europe. So you think all European countries are the same? American education makes me speechless sometimes. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On April 04 2009 01:50 onnings wrote: Texans blowing each others away? Sounds like evolution in effect to me. ayy fuk u us hicbillehz gottum feelinz tu Nigger ass shit don't fuck with texas + Show Spoiler + i dont know | ||
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
Same in Denmark. How one can argue for guns in school goes beyond me: wouldn't it just be mildly fucked up to be in class, knowing that everyone around you is armed with a gun? Considering how some people can rage over nothing, I doubt very much that gun-related deaths at school would decrease from this. Take your gun to the shooting range, don't bring it to class. I do realize the problem with the gun laws of the US and why you cannot just illegalize (is that even a word, lol) gun ownership. All the bad guys already have guns, meaning that banning them would just leave general public without them. I completely gun-free society, except for police and military, a la scandinavia would be greatly preferred to the nutty laws overseas. Perhaps I'm just too european to understand what liberty is all about... | ||
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AtlaS
United States1001 Posts
*on topic* stay safe OP, school shootings? that's always been a nightmare of mine. it's scary that fellow peers can be pushed to the point of senseless shootings on random individuals. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
On April 04 2009 08:03 Hans-Titan wrote: Same in Denmark. How one can argue for guns in school goes beyond me: wouldn't it just be mildly fucked up to be in class, knowing that everyone around you is armed with a gun? Considering how some people can rage over nothing, I doubt very much that gun-related deaths at school would decrease from this. Take your gun to the shooting range, don't bring it to class. I do realize the problem with the gun laws of the US and why you cannot just illegalize (is that even a word, lol) gun ownership. All the bad guys already have guns, meaning that banning them would just leave general public without them. I completely gun-free society, except for police and military, a la scandinavia would be greatly preferred to the nutty laws overseas. Perhaps I'm just too european to understand what liberty is all about... There was something similar when we were under british rule. We couldn't defend ourselves, they could house their military in our houses, they could confiscate our food, tax us whatever they wanted, etc. etc. We are allowed the use of firearms because our creation was based on the distrust of government, and having firearms to over throw a government through force is required. Look at China, where protests end up with you dead and no way to defend yourself. Crazy people will always have weapons, do you want one one you're face to face with him? It's the same idea with nuclear mutual destruction. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:26 tttt wrote: How many times has your poorly phrased scenario been played out in American Universities? If you want to live in a society without gun rights, feel free to fuck off to Europe. .. I've become a lot more pro-guns than I once was, but.. guns at a school? Really?? | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Racial tensions, gangs of youths, and black market operations are the primary reasons for violence, and gun-laws have done nothing to curtails those. .. I've become a lot more pro-guns than I once was, but.. guns at a school? Really?? For safe schools, this is not a necessity, but if you ever been in an inner city school where 10% of the students don't want to be there and are part of violent gangs, a large number of students carry a gun for self-protection. Violence - gun violence - is a symptom of social rot rather than the other way around. Gun-grabbers have to get that into their heads or else. | ||
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tttt
United States386 Posts
On April 03 2009 22:04 Hans-Titan wrote: Let's hope that does not pass, for the sake of all humanity.. Let's hope that you and your retard-ex-PM Rasmussen stay as far away from countries whose GDP actually matters. Did you actually read that stupid sack of shit's editorial in the Journal? It read like something a drug-addled college student would crap out after a two week OC binge. Honestly, if your sad little country mattered a little bit more, I might be somewhat incensed about your ignorant point of view. Only a sad, economically delusional cunt would seriously argue that the Kenysian multiplier is a serious economic principle. In conclusion, I make more money than you do because I work 80 hours a week and don't have a government mandated month-long vacation. You're a disgrace. | ||
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jjun212
Canada2208 Posts
But have you ever had someone swing a knife at you? It's just as scary! (Unless you're Chuck Norris or something though...) | ||
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Lucktar
United States526 Posts
On April 04 2009 13:11 tttt wrote: Let's hope that you and your retard-ex-PM Rasmussen stay as far away from countries whose GDP actually matters. Did you actually read that stupid sack of shit's editorial in the Journal? It read like something a drug-addled college student would crap out after a two week OC binge. Honestly, if your sad little country mattered a little bit more, I might be somewhat incensed about your ignorant point of view. Only a sad, economically delusional cunt would seriously argue that the Kenysian multiplier is a serious economic principle. In conclusion, I make more money than you do because I work 80 hours a week and don't have a government mandated month-long vacation. You're a disgrace. Calm down there, tiger. It's just a friendly discussion. Also, off-topic much? Personally, the idea of other people on campus having guns scares me, and I can't imagine that carrying a gun myself would make things any better. If students carried guns, then you'd just have several people firing once an emergency started, making it a complete nightmare for emergency responders. Not to mention the possibility of people being killed by stray bullets. When the problem is people bringing guns to school, adding more guns to the situation seems like a rather poor solution. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 04 2009 08:16 SnK-Arcbound wrote: There was something similar when we were under british rule. We couldn't defend ourselves, they could house their military in our houses, they could confiscate our food, tax us whatever they wanted, etc. etc. We are allowed the use of firearms because our creation was based on the distrust of government, and having firearms to over throw a government through force is required. Look at China, where protests end up with you dead and no way to defend yourself. ya cuz if the military decides to fuck us all in the ass a bunch of hicks with handguns and hunting rifles are gonna do a whole lot to stop them. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
How plausible or necessary is any of that likely to be? Not very. But it's a damn good excuse to have a bunch of AR-15s. | ||
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Wotans_Fire
United Kingdom294 Posts
On April 04 2009 19:07 IdrA wrote: ya cuz if the military decides to fuck us all in the ass a bunch of hicks with handguns and hunting rifles are gonna do a whole lot to stop them. In the case that the government decides to become abusive a lot of the military workforce would stop working for them and an armed citizenry could simply stop paying and the government would run out of money. Anyway I don't think that is one of the strongest points for the 2nd amendment. The criminals the gangs are always going to have guns, however if every household was armed wouldn't you feel less inclined to burgle or mug or rape? If a nutjob started firing in a shopping centre would he be able to take out 15 people if everyone was armed? | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 04 2009 20:13 Wotans_Fire wrote: In the case that the government decides to become abusive a lot of the military workforce would stop working for them and an armed citizenry could simply stop paying and the government would run out of money. an unarmed citizenry could simply stop paying them too. either theyre willing to take the money by force and do so, and a gun just means they have to send in a couple of cops/soldiers with the tax collectors, or they arent, in which case it doesnt matter. Anyway I don't think that is one of the strongest points for the 2nd amendment. The criminals the gangs are always going to have guns, however if every household was armed wouldn't you feel less inclined to burgle or mug or rape? If a nutjob started firing in a shopping centre would he be able to take out 15 people if everyone was armed? the deterring crime argument is the only valid one imo. the nutjobs who go on killing sprees like that dont care about dying 99% of the time, they usually kill themselves at the end. as for crime prevention that rests on the assumption that its enough of a deterrent that it would stop more crimes than making guns impossible to obtain legally would, and i dunno how valid that assumption is. i mean, american gun laws arent all that tight, theres already a fair chance you could be walking into a house with a gun, or attacking a person with a gun. people still rob and rape and murder. | ||
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
In the case that the government decides to become abusive a lot of the military workforce would stop working for them and an armed citizenry could simply stop paying and the government would run out of money. Yea, I agree. The public has the power to stop an oppressive government without the use of arms. So why is still the possibility of governmental supression of the people being used as a justification of the second amendment rights still? It seems like a relic from an age where the global politics was governed by superpowers constantly pressuring their isolated colonies for taxes to fund their wars for supremacy. Anyway I don't think that is one of the strongest points for the 2nd amendment. The criminals the gangs are always going to have guns, however if every household was armed wouldn't you feel less inclined to burgle or mug or rape? If a nutjob started firing in a shopping centre would he be able to take out 15 people if everyone was armed? If I was a robber, I'd feel more nervous robbing someone if I knew they'd had guns, and as you probably know, the last thing you want is for someone who has the means to kill you to feel pressured to perform. I'd be more triggerhappy, more likely to shoot first rather than try to force whoever notice me to submit through nonlethal means. Yes, spreading guns to the general population might help prevent some small-time gain-related crimes due to a higher risk versus reward-scenario for the criminals. But for organized crime, for desperate people, for drug and gang situations, it'd only make it more violent due to people feeling more nervous with the increase in general gun usage. | ||
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antiq
Slovakia191 Posts
On April 03 2009 15:26 tttt wrote: How many times has your poorly phrased scenario been played out in American Universities? If you want to live in a society without gun rights, feel free to fuck off to Europe. Wow, you make a compelling argument, would you care to elaborate some more? edit:: sorry to hear about things like this, I'm always afraid of the day when something alike will occur in my smallish country. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On April 04 2009 21:31 onnings wrote: Yea, I agree. The public has the power to stop an oppressive government without the use of arms. So why is still the possibility of governmental supression of the people being used as a justification of the second amendment rights still? It seems like a relic from an age where the global politics was governed by superpowers constantly pressuring their isolated colonies for taxes to fund their wars for supremacy. You only need the guns to stop the revenueers and low level police action associated with collecting taxes. If the government needs to deploy its army against its own population, it has already lost its ability to govern effectively. | ||
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iloveoil
Norway171 Posts
On April 04 2009 13:11 tttt wrote: Let's hope that you and your retard-ex-PM Rasmussen stay as far away from countries whose GDP actually matters. Did you actually read that stupid sack of shit's editorial in the Journal? It read like something a drug-addled college student would crap out after a two week OC binge. Honestly, if your sad little country mattered a little bit more, I might be somewhat incensed about your ignorant point of view. Only a sad, economically delusional cunt would seriously argue that the Kenysian multiplier is a serious economic principle. In conclusion, I make more money than you do because I work 80 hours a week and don't have a government mandated month-long vacation. You're a disgrace. wtf | ||
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On April 04 2009 12:10 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: Every single time there is a gun-law discussion on tl.net I just have to wonder how uncivilized the US is. Torture, death penalty and fucking guns in schools wtf is wrong with you cowboys? What amazes me is how the biggest fascists of yesterday are always the loudest when it comes to telling USA how to be "civilized". Take a hike, plz. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 04 2009 22:56 HnR)hT wrote: What amazes me is how the biggest fascists of yesterday are always the loudest when it comes to telling USA how to be "civilized". Take a hike, plz. what does his parents' government have to do with his opinion of the us today? | ||
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
On April 04 2009 13:11 tttt wrote: Let's hope that you and your retard-ex-PM Rasmussen stay as far away from countries whose GDP actually matters. Did you actually read that stupid sack of shit's editorial in the Journal? It read like something a drug-addled college student would crap out after a two week OC binge. Honestly, if your sad little country mattered a little bit more, I might be somewhat incensed about your ignorant point of view. Only a sad, economically delusional cunt would seriously argue that the Kenysian multiplier is a serious economic principle. In conclusion, I make more money than you do because I work 80 hours a week and don't have a government mandated month-long vacation. You're a disgrace. I honestly don't know what to say. This post is so flawed, so off-topic and so red-neck that I'm awestruck. You don't even argue my points, you just attack me based on nationality and my country's PM, whom I do not support. He's still PM by the way, not been appointed secretary general of NATO yet. I haven't read his editorial either, and unless you provide me with a link I doubt I will. Googling 'Anders Fogh Rasmussen Editorial Journal' turns up diddly, and frankly I got better things to do than pursue statements made by idiots. How the fuck does your personal income and keynesian economics relate at all to gun control? And grats on working 80 hours a week and being a US citizen, I feel inferior already. If I'm a disgrace I cannot begin to fathom what that makes you... | ||
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KwarK
United States43815 Posts
On April 04 2009 08:16 SnK-Arcbound wrote: There was something similar when we were under british rule. We couldn't defend ourselves, they could house their military in our houses, they could confiscate our food, tax us whatever they wanted, etc. etc. We are allowed the use of firearms because our creation was based on the distrust of government, and having firearms to over throw a government through force is required. Look at China, where protests end up with you dead and no way to defend yourself. Crazy people will always have weapons, do you want one one you're face to face with him? It's the same idea with nuclear mutual destruction. Oh ffs. That's not even remotely true. Guns weren't outlawed in Britain until twenty years ago. Guns were in no way illegal in the 13 colonies. Just so you know too, you paid proportionately the lowest tax of any English citizens. The demographics of it showed about a quarter in favour of independence, a third against but passive and the rest not caring either way. The English army themselves refused to fight against their countrymen forcing the king to use German mercenaries in the war. When the rebels eventually won there was a huge exodus of loyalists north into Canada which was in itself the turning point of Canada from French control to English. When hundreds of thousands of the people you're fighting for uproot their lives and walk north to escape back into the old regime you're probably not representing the people. On a related note, Washington wrote to London and asked for a degree of autonomy in local affairs which we short sightedly refused. About fifty years after the revolution we freely gave Australia, Canada and New Zealand the same freedoms you asked for. Oh, and the Boston Tea Party? England had just reordered taxes on imports on tea from India stopping the protectionism which subsidised the 13 colonies and making them even across the Empire. The tea was worthless. It was rich traders bitching because they had lost their perks and were forced to pay the same taxes as everyone else. The American Revolution was a victory for a minority of armed and motivated local aristocracy who wanted more control over their own lives. It ignored the will of the people. It succeeded against an army which refused to fight it and achieved it's aims of taking what would be freely given. Oh, and the bit in that crappy Mel Gibson film you probably view as historical where he offers the black man his freedom in exchange for fighting, yeah, that happened, but only on the English side. You were the slaveowners who felt threatened by the campaign going on in London to ban slavery and didn't want people imposing on your right to treat men like animals. The United States was the last civilised nation to ban slavery, behind even the Russian Empire which was still fifty years off it's first parliament at the time. Feel proud. | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
On April 04 2009 22:56 HnR)hT wrote: What amazes me is how the biggest fascists of yesterday are always the loudest when it comes to telling USA how to be "civilized". Take a hike, plz. Why does it amaze you? If anything it should make you listen more to my opinion because we had the chance to learn from the past... | ||
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KwarK
United States43815 Posts
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