This is the new thread. Feel free to express opinions about Authonomy and Klaz, but DO NOT discuss his commentary skill, whether you like him as a commentator, etc. Post or let this die, but don't start a flamewar about whether Klazart fans can understand 12 pool or not. Thanks.
I'll summarize what happened so far:
1. Klazart posted a YouTube video asking his fans to vote for his book on Authonomy, a site where amateur authors post and rate their work.
2. Klazart's book shot to the top of the rankings due to lots of his fans voting.
3. While Authonomy encourages people to get their friends and family to come and read and vote, many users there felt what Klazart did was against the spirit of the rule.
4. There was lots of flaming and commentary-centered discussion in the original thread that should not be included here.
edit: Also, please don't use this thread as a way to get more votes for Klaz (or anyone else's authonomy book). Thanks.
We also acknowledge that Starcraft is a sport that, once the shock and novelty wears off, is legitimate and deserves to be recognized as serious. We hope that one day it will make its way to the Olympics.
I think this topic has honestly been beaten to a gluey pulp after failing to finish first in a horse race. What else could be discussed here? They have made an apology, an announcement, and Klazart's book is still up on the site. I think a fair verdict has been arrived at, and that any further discussion should happen at authonomy, for authonomy.
On March 26 2009 04:00 Frits wrote: I didnt actually see that apology yet LOL, that thing is hilarious. Just to be clear, that's one of us making fun of them right?
Well yes it is: "first registered 23.03.09"
Also with that whole "olympics" thing it's obvious it was someone who read/saw the recent boxer interview where he talks about wanting sc to become an olympic sport ^^
I have just finished registering on authonomy, backed Klazart's book and put it on my watchlist. Now it is on rank 5 and I delude myself that I was the one final vote making this happen. :D Hope this will last until the countdown reaches zero.
On March 26 2009 04:45 number1gog wrote: I can't believe how pretentious some of these "authors" on authonomy are. I registered and backed Klaz's book just to spite them.
I watched you numbers for the last 24 hours Klaz - you've lost steam. That will cost you.
(:from Authonomy)
Like really dude? That'll cost him? If I ever get so doucebaggish I give tl.net full permission to come to my house and steal my computer.
Edit: oh and look at that, he's in the top 5 now.
Totally agreed. I backed the book for this reason as well. I honestly did not read Klaz's book. I'm sure he's capable of writing something worth a read, but I've got enough on my plate in terms of reading from university. The only thing keeping me interested, and what ultimately makes me secretly want to see Klaz reach the Editor's Desk, is simply the fact that these people are being naive and ignorant. Don't expect "honour" from a popularity contest.
Also:
The author of this "apology" has been on site for two days at the time of writing, does not offer a book of his own, has backed only one book (guess which) and has not written a critique of any. Doubtless he means well but for him to make an apology on behalf of many hundreds of persons who were unaware of what was happening and who have nothing to apologise for, is bizarre to say the least or arrogant to say the worst. His thoughts might be well intended but he speaks only for himself. mch
That this guy is able to point out the reg date and still not realize it's a troll is just too much. Please tell me he's like... a counter-troll. We're getting into some serious meta-meta-hyper-super-counter trolling here.
This "official apology" looks like a big fat joke. I hope it won't draw the opposite of what Klazart was looking for.
I don't know where this opposition between gaming and reading/writing comes from. Myself, i enjoy starcraft commentary, reading and writing, and i don't see the problem about it.
In all honesty our communities SHOULD get along very well. However they are so damn snoody to the point of making me angry. Id back Klazart's book a thousand times over just to see them cry when it reaches #1 spot on ED.
In all honesty the authonomy members are as hard core about their thing as us with StarCraft. Over all it's a good crowd. Best of luck to Klaz and their community.
If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Klaz was in top 5 for like an hour and dropped to 6th interesting, one guy thinks he can get 500 ppl to suscribe to his youtube and all of them come support him on authonomy. He doesnt realize only about a 10th of his fans will find the time if you go by the klaz formula. These efforts are just hilarious nothing but a moderator with a stick up his bum is keeping klaz out of the top 5 this month.
Edit: For those of you unfamiliar with whats going on heres the vid that started it all:
And now a bunch of people on the website are pissed off, while some also support him because it is actually a good read imo.
On March 26 2009 05:25 achap54 wrote: If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Although it may not seem like it, there is a limit to the Klazart fan population, and I'm sure that 80% of them, if they would have ever helped him have already helped him.
On March 26 2009 05:25 achap54 wrote: If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Although it may not seem like it, there is a limit to the Klazart fan population, and I'm sure that 80% of them, if they would have ever helped him have already helped him.
Well you have to remember that klaz has about 9000 suscribers and only around 1250 people have backed his book, + the people in the community who are neutral to klaz but hate the people at authonomy, +4chan ppl doing it for the lulz+ people who are fans of sc in general ect. Id say Klaz's backing army is nowhere near dry or "80%".
On March 26 2009 05:25 achap54 wrote: If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Although it may not seem like it, there is a limit to the Klazart fan population, and I'm sure that 80% of them, if they would have ever helped him have already helped him.
Well you have to remember that klaz has about 9000 suscribers and only around 1250 people have backed his book, + the people in the community who are neutral to klaz but hate the people at authonomy, +4chan ppl doing it for the lulz+ people who are fans of sc in general ect. Id say Klaz's backing army is nowhere near dry or "80%".
I am not very clear sometimes so I will rephrase: of the people that would take the time to vote for Klaz, I think 80% have already done so. This is just a guess of course, but I think that something like a video promotion in this case has a response of a bell-curve with the x-axis being time and y-axis being votes/day. I think the apex has passed.
On March 26 2009 05:25 achap54 wrote: If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Although it may not seem like it, there is a limit to the Klazart fan population, and I'm sure that 80% of them, if they would have ever helped him have already helped him.
Well you have to remember that klaz has about 9000 suscribers and only around 1250 people have backed his book, + the people in the community who are neutral to klaz but hate the people at authonomy, +4chan ppl doing it for the lulz+ people who are fans of sc in general ect. Id say Klaz's backing army is nowhere near dry or "80%".
I am not very clear sometimes so I will rephrase: of the people that would take the time to vote for Klaz, I think 80% have already done so. This is just a guess of course, but I think that something like a video promotion in this case has a response of a bell-curve with the x-axis being time and y-axis being votes/day. I think the apex has passed.
Agreed barring future videos and/or plugs by other commentators I think we have past the membership surge.
On March 26 2009 05:25 achap54 wrote: If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Although it may not seem like it, there is a limit to the Klazart fan population, and I'm sure that 80% of them, if they would have ever helped him have already helped him.
Well you have to remember that klaz has about 9000 suscribers and only around 1250 people have backed his book, + the people in the community who are neutral to klaz but hate the people at authonomy, +4chan ppl doing it for the lulz+ people who are fans of sc in general ect. Id say Klaz's backing army is nowhere near dry or "80%".
I am not very clear sometimes so I will rephrase: of the people that would take the time to vote for Klaz, I think 80% have already done so. This is just a guess of course, but I think that something like a video promotion in this case has a response of a bell-curve with the x-axis being time and y-axis being votes/day. I think the apex has passed.
All things considered, it may spike again toward the deadline for this month. That is, if the editor's desk is a reality at that point. But yes, after that I don't see it keeping up.
Hahaha ROFL at that guys nickname. I thought it was a legit appology untill I read his nick in some quote and just bursted out in laughter :D Picture of an old man and every, brilliant :D:D
Edit: Every time I've voted for something, I've done it because I had to, but this is actually the first time in gonna vote just because I really feel I can make a difference. Im gonna vote on klazarts book where the only reason is to see the old fucks keep getting trolled, I can't believe that someone who's actually writing stuff and takes their work serious, don't see whats going on here.
Here you have supposedly intelligent people who read something written by a member called CoMpToNGaNzTa who joined the same day as the post was written, and they think its legit? Are you serious, how stupid can you get.
Good work klazart, you have entertained me more now than ever, no amount of vods nor books can match up to this, first you get Authonomy stirred up, and then teamliquid. This is way more than any forum troll could ever hope for, and your only tool is the community itself.
On March 26 2009 05:25 achap54 wrote: If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Although it may not seem like it, there is a limit to the Klazart fan population, and I'm sure that 80% of them, if they would have ever helped him have already helped him.
Well you have to remember that klaz has about 9000 suscribers and only around 1250 people have backed his book, + the people in the community who are neutral to klaz but hate the people at authonomy, +4chan ppl doing it for the lulz+ people who are fans of sc in general ect. Id say Klaz's backing army is nowhere near dry or "80%".
I am not very clear sometimes so I will rephrase: of the people that would take the time to vote for Klaz, I think 80% have already done so. This is just a guess of course, but I think that something like a video promotion in this case has a response of a bell-curve with the x-axis being time and y-axis being votes/day. I think the apex has passed.
Agreed barring future videos and/or plugs by other commentators I think we have past the membership surge.
I doubt other commentators would step in to help Klaz, and if they did, then the people who would hypothetically vote would be from a shared fanbase so would already be exposed to Klaz's video :p
To the other post by someone else, I wouldn't expect the spike to be close to even half of the support he has gotten in the first few days after the video.
I had to laugh when I saw the "official" apology. The guys' registration date and nickname was such an obvious give away but it resulted in a serious 8 page discussion.
honestly, this morning, I was pretty sure that that was that. Maybe even yesterday. Gotta give credit to the guy who planned it perfectly. He had the top TSR and has spammed anyone with a book on there that he will vote for them if they vote to keep me out of the top 5. In a way I don't blame them, they are a community just like any other and are sticking together.
Well, I've only half read the closed thread, and only a few threads on authonomy, but I find the whole thing interesting. Reason being is that I'm probably the only person on either sides of this that plays Starcraft and is a gamer, but I also work in the publishing industry (in Canada). Very cool that he could get that many people to notice his book that quickly. Clearly there is some marketing potential, which HC is probably considering tapping.
I was never aware of that site until now either. I actually go through what we call the "slush" pile (unsolicited manuscripts) to determine if there's anything publishable. I find the attitude of most of the authors at authonomy typical. My company (which is a fairly small publisher) gets close to 1000 submissions a year, of which maybe 10-20 are actually publishable (and most need heavy edits).
Everyone thinks they can write. Since I've joined the industry and told people so, too many people say that they have a book idea or an actual book that they want published. Writing is very hard, and it takes a lot of practise; few people have what it takes. There's just too many writers out there now to make your book unique. Of course it can be done (and it is done all the time), but it's hard.
SoleSteeler - while you're here, mind if I pick your brain a little?
What are the more important considerations when it comes to deciding if a novel is publishable for you?
Is it the theme/idea? Is it the timeliness/resonance of the story? Is it the prose? A hint of something different? The author's voice? They have something useful to say? Marketability? How polished it is?
I'm sure all factors are important, but I'm curious if you could give a little more insight into the decision making process? I noticed you said that most need heavy edits, I find this very intriguing since the pervading belief seems to be that unless a MS is "perfect" it will get tossed straight away.
In all honesty the authonomy members are as hard core about their thing as us with StarCraft. Over all it's a good crowd. Best of luck to Klaz and their community.
I disagree. if someone came here and talked about street fighter, dota, hockey, wc3 or whatever, our topic would be moved to the proper forum but we'd have every ability to do so.
The reverse situation wasn't just a 'oh wow this kid is dumb' comment in the strategy forum, it wasn't a blind dismissal either. it was a sustained, vitriolic attack against klaz, his supporters, and by extension 'gamers'. The reason was obviously the change in rankings and TSR. Were you there reading the threads on the first day of the event? I can assure you that they weren't of the same nature that they are now. It wasn't 'i'm leaving'. It was 'fuck you, get off the site'.
That reaction does not deserve an apologist's whitewash.
On March 26 2009 08:36 Klaz wrote: SoleSteeler - while you're here, mind if I pick your brain a little?
What are the more important considerations when it comes to deciding if a novel is publishable for you?
Is it the theme/idea? Is it the timeliness/resonance of the story? Is it the prose? A hint of something different? The author's voice? They have something useful to say? Marketability? How polished it is?
I'm sure all factors are important, but I'm curious if you could give a little more insight into the decision making process? I noticed you said that most need heavy edits, I find this very intriguing since the pervading belief seems to be that unless a MS is "perfect" it will get tossed straight away.
My company publishes mainly literary fiction, so anything pertaining to that. Including, but not limited to, distinct use of voice, character development, narrative structure and yes the prose itself, including its use of imagery, simile, metaphor, etc. Character development is big.
We try to avoid books where the idea or plot is the driving force behind the book. That of course means that the plot could be anything, but if the main idea behind the book is that it's set in the future with aliens and shit, then it's likely to be ignored. From what I saw, your idea seemed cool enough. And yeah, timing surely has something to do with it, for its marketability. But my company specifically doesn't publish books directly based on that. If it's good it's good, and if it's shit it's shit!
L: there has been plenty of threads on this forum where people have basically gotten the same response. The amount of bad mannered posts in tl vs sc2gg comes to mind, and you gotta keep in mind that this forum is extremely well moderated, and we've had our fair share of fucking assholes.
I dont know how well moderated that other forum is, but it seems pretty crap since they didnt even have moderators during the weekend.
I dont think its a fair comparison, but when that's said, im pretty sure you're right. I can't imagine a forum where people can discuss the amount of things we discuss on teamliquid where almost everyone has an open mind.
On March 26 2009 08:36 Klaz wrote: SoleSteeler - while you're here, mind if I pick your brain a little?
What are the more important considerations when it comes to deciding if a novel is publishable for you?
Is it the theme/idea? Is it the timeliness/resonance of the story? Is it the prose? A hint of something different? The author's voice? They have something useful to say? Marketability? How polished it is?
I'm sure all factors are important, but I'm curious if you could give a little more insight into the decision making process? I noticed you said that most need heavy edits, I find this very intriguing since the pervading belief seems to be that unless a MS is "perfect" it will get tossed straight away.
My company publishes mainly literary fiction, so anything pertaining to that. Including, but not limited to, distinct use of voice, character development, narrative structure and yes the prose itself, including its use of imagery, simile, metaphor, etc. Character development is big.
We try to avoid books where the idea or plot is the driving force behind the book. That of course means that the plot could be anything, but if the main idea behind the book is that it's set in the future with aliens and shit, then it's likely to be ignored. From what I saw, your idea seemed cool enough. And yeah, timing surely has something to do with it, for its marketability. But my company specifically doesn't publish books directly based on that. If it's good it's good, and if it's shit it's shit!
Good luck!
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
In all honesty the authonomy members are as hard core about their thing as us with StarCraft. Over all it's a good crowd. Best of luck to Klaz and their community.
I disagree. if someone came here and talked about street fighter, dota, hockey, wc3 or whatever, our topic would be moved to the proper forum but we'd have every ability to do so.
The reverse situation wasn't just a 'oh wow this kid is dumb' comment in the strategy forum, it wasn't a blind dismissal either. it was a sustained, vitriolic attack against klaz, his supporters, and by extension 'gamers'. The reason was obviously the change in rankings and TSR. Were you there reading the threads on the first day of the event? I can assure you that they weren't of the same nature that they are now. It wasn't 'i'm leaving'. It was 'fuck you, get off the site'.
That reaction does not deserve an apologist's whitewash.
Yeah.
I understood people getting upset when there was this sudden thing happening and they didn't know what was going on. In that sense some of the reactions were understandable. But some of the stuff was over the top.
One guy called me a "a fukin paki" then a "nigger", like he couldn't make up his mind. Although many of the members called him out on it, there were some who actually supported him. He did this for a good 4-5 hours before he realised that he was only making himself look bad. He made a couple more posts about it the next day before getting banned ( i think)
Another guy was like "yeah I have a business in India, and they (indians) are all dirty, sneaky and underhanded, always looking for a way to cheat you"
Then there was the more general insulting towards the guys who came over from youtube to vote for me and later towards gamers in general...
"mindless clones," "sock puppets," "the borg collective," "lemmings," "illiterates," etc etc etc.
Obviously now that HC has put it's foot down they've had to tone the rhethoric down, though I think only one of em got banned. + they realise that some of the "gamers" are there to stay, and "can read" and they don't want to antagonise them...
it was actually kinda surreal, like a light being turned on, not from off to on, but slowly increasing in the intensity of brightness, and the forum threads went from being "piss off gamers," to "gamers you'll like this book."
The lack of moderation was obviously the main problem, because as has been said already, you can get assholes anywhere.
Sure. If you have anymore feel free to ask or shoot me a PM. I would offer to take a closer look at your book, but I'm still rather young (just turned 24) and I work for a small press (that's won a number of awards, at least!) so I wouldn't take my advice as end-all when it comes to publishing. But I'm definitely learning how to discern good books from bad
edit: and also I don't really have the time to look at someone's book
On March 26 2009 09:11 SoleSteeler wrote: Sure. If you have anymore feel free to ask or shoot me a PM. I would offer to take a closer look at your book, but I'm still rather young (just turned 24) and I work for a small press (that's won a number of awards, at least!) so I wouldn't take my advice as end-all when it comes to publishing. But I'm definitely learning how to discern good books from bad
edit: and also I don't really have the time to look at someone's book
np thank you for your time. I might shoot you a pm later about a question or two I have
I think what this fellow lacks is wit and presentation. While I am actually quite happy that he is writing and I think he is quite free to attempt to promote his novels and short story collections via Youtube, it's funny that his reaction borders on jealousy.
Edit: Oh yes, let's be all smug and make fun of the warcraft icon on his desktop, we won't at all look like another smug group of people making fun of another videogame...
I'm not making fun of it, I was addicted to WoW for months. I think the reason Oedi was laughing was because this guy was "bashing" starcraft, yet had a WoW icon on his desktop.
I know you're not making fun of it. I think he is critical of you because of xenophobic feelings -- he doesn't understand that your cultural background gives you a voice that's a minority in western literature.
A lot of "Indians" are writing these days, after like 3-4 won bookers. It was really Salman Rushdie who blazed the trail. Midnights Children has made it all possible. In a couple of years it probably won't be special anymore. Though my next novel will be more contemporary and based in Ireland.
I love this guy though
"I'm the greatest writer of all time, mohammed was the greatest fighter, i'm the greatest writer.'
On March 26 2009 11:52 Klaz wrote: One of the authonomy "regulars" decided to make his own youtube video. I actually enjoyed watching it, the first two minutes anyway.
"This guy has some kinda game thing or something on youtube called starcraft....."
They could have at least made it a little more witty/funny :/
Editted to get rid of lame quoted imbed videos which I hate but did myself -.-
yikes vilda totally owned most of those ppl out there @_@. its so weird to see ppl at earlier stages of life criticize (and be right about it) those in their latter stages of life. i still cant get that avatar of some old benevolent looking granny going on about being honorable when everyone is playing by the same rules.
Yeah. But at the same time a lot of people are speaking from emotion, and when you let yourself do that, you inevitably hurt your own cause.
Here is an interesting quote from the kid of the guys video I linked to earlier... I'm off to bed now and I swear to not touch the laptop all day tomorrow! Must work on editing and catch up on reading. ciao
Of course I know how the gaming communities work. You noticed that, good job. Now onto another fact I already stated in a previous post. The fact that I don't use my sway in these gaming communities is what some of us call responsibility. This isn't quid pro quo here. These guys are enamored with this Klazart fellow and will do anything he wants obviously. They viciously defend him and are flaming my video with a slew of grammatically flawed sentences only prove my point of the stupidity of this Starcraft community that is supporting Klazart. I honestly didn't care about any of this until I realized it was Starcraft.
Do you even realize how easily I could use me being a GameMaster on World of Warcraft could cause havok on this website? I could probably get thirty times the number Klazart has brought and add to the confusion. Idiot little kiddies registering and screwing up all the numbers, carelessly adding books to their shelf, spamming the forums with their nonsensical attitudes, and using their wonderfully articulated leet speak while they are at it. There is nothing complex about the situation. It is this responsibility that separates myself from Klazart.
If he really were a Game Master, he would not be able to disclosure it like that in those stupid situations, just to flaunt it, besides, what power does a wow GM really had ? not much if you ask me, even if he meant guild master, he wouldnt be able to break 400 people i bet, even with his guildies bringing more people.
The reason I say this is, because I know how the wow community is, and its full of E-thugs who think that because they kill bosses in the easiest pve game ever made they can do everything.
When I read the quote Klaz presented I remembered this
Lotta piss and vinegar in this one. Must be cathartic to have a punching bag near the computer when you get so invested in the dealings of an online community.
god, i read the comment from banana (2nd above vilda), thats pretty fucked up.. people only reading others books and flattering for months just to increase their own books ranking? sounds like hell to me. no surprise some of them are really pissed after your success.
Edit: I just brought it up since there was a Vilda who played Plexa back in the TL vs. GG.net show match, I think? Someone who is more familiar with the GG.net staff members can probably answer this right away... Edit 2: Typo
On March 26 2009 15:53 Descent wrote: Vilda is staff on...GG.net, right?
Edit: I just brought it up since there was a Vilda who played Plexa back in the TL vs. GG.net show match, I think? Someone who is probably more familiar with the GG.net staff members can probably answer this right away..
^ Thanks. I like her post, too. Here it is, in case anyone doesn't want to go through the link: + Show Spoiler +
Vilda said...
I think all - or at least most - of you, have blown this out of proportion.
I actually sat down and read through everything that's been said here, and this whole discussion makes me so tired. I don't know everything about how this site works, and I happen to be one of the people who didn't sign up to vote for Klazart's book, but the way you reason around the rules when it comes to spreading the word to your friends is making me frustrated.
You say you have your community here, that you have a way to deal with trolls and a way that your forums and community works. Of course you do, but the more people who join up with your site, the more people can and most likely will give you the feedback you're all looking for when you post your work here. Are you upset because your own work isn't "backed up without reading" or are you upset because your work isn't climbing as fast as Klazart's? It sounds to me like you are only looking for a way to get him out, so you can get your own work up faster again. And yet some of you state you don't see this as a competition.
This clearly IS a game, a competition. A competition for a company to maybe sign your books, or at least for the feedback you can get from them. How can it be wrong to want to get there, when that's the reason (I believe) many of you joined the site in the first place? If the book (as some of you have presented here) isn't good, I doubt the company will publish it. What Klazart is looking for (I've heard him say this himself) is some feedback, what can help him make it better.
Also it makes me down right pissed off the way some/most of you speak of our (the Starcraft- ) community. How can the people who Klazart has come in contact with in some way online the last years not be counted for just because it is online and/or a gaming community? How can you even begin to think that someone creating 100 accounts to make his book rise in the rankings to be the same thing as posting somewhere online to get people whom you've given a lot to to give something back to you? I could say right now that it is easier to create 100 accounts on the site even using proxies, than to accomplish what Klazart has for the Starcraft community, and/or for the people who watches his videos.
I take personal offence by the people in these comments who seem to mentions that the "klazartians" are all male gamer nerds who never read books. I'm a female college student who spends more time reading books than I do on playing Starcraft, and I'm currently studying English Creative Writing, which makes me consider myself a writer. The stereotype you paint out for the people who just joined your site to check out a book of someone they have talked to or watched online - as your rules clearly not only states but encourage people to do - is plain hilarious.
I also find it funny how no one complained about the rules or lack of them, until now. Some posts include a "I've been saying this all along" comment, but apparently it wasn't enough to make you leave until someone actually manage to get up to that top5 you speak of, faster than you have. Most of you say that you have posted on your blogs, on facebook and other ways and it happens to be that youtube is a place where Klazart ventilate and puts his thoughts. Maybe he doesn't put it in the same format you do on the above mentioned sites, but that is what he's doing there. You also tend put us all in the same box with other labels, such as "people who live in their mother's basement", you mention the "level of blind idealism in today's youth", and with comments such as "you could market the book by pairing it with "Ten sure-fire ways to kiss a girl before you're thirty." This makes me take this site and its followers even less serious than I did when I first heard about this whole flamewar, just a couple of days ago.
If you call the people on this site your friends, and you call it a core community, I see no reason not to stay in touch with them even if you have left the site. Some of you mention leaving, but also having a hard time with it, because of the friends you have made here. If you like the community and have friends there, stay, if it's not worth it, leave. Klazart's book hasn't changed anything, just made a fault in the rules and ways of the site more obvious.
How can you think that Klazart being a gamer changes anything. Does he not deserve being published, or even getting the feedback from the publishers because of that? Seriously. If you really disagree with what he's done, feel free to say so, but don't claim he did something wrong just because you wouldn't have gotten the backup his book got. Saying things such as "You may get it published, but the writing community will never support it." (what community by the way, from what I know this site isn't the only one out there, and not big enough to contain every writer out there either.) or "You've become a pariah to those who try to get published in a classy and ethical manner." won't change the fact that if he gets published I'm sure it'll be for a good reason, and not only because of him having a lot of people believing in his book. Calling him out for not being ethically correct, or even saying that his book is really bad will not give you anything, most likely not even the satisfaction of getting back at him.
Lastly: Maybe some day I'll have enough faith in a site like this to put my own work up there, and when that day comes, I'll do what I can to get what I want - getting published - as anyone else here is/should be doing.
Rick, thank you, you seem to be a reasonable person.
dalecoz, I'm glad to see someone actually can look forward from this, and realise that every person in each community is a person him or herself, not just a part of a group labelled with writer or gamer.
Am I the only who's not gonna vote for Klaz book? I give him huge probs for his commentaries but it's stupid to destroy for another community just to show what "we gamers can do". Yeah it's not against the rules but still it's immature and stupid. Only because Klaz has done good commentaries (and ovverated IMO) he should'nt get votes for his book. I understand that Klaz is so egocentric that he'll do anything to get someone to read it but I'm not going to support it.
On March 26 2009 20:32 Loffeman wrote: Am I the only who's not gonna vote for Klaz book? I give him huge probs for his commentaries but it's stupid to destroy for another community just to show what "we gamers can do". Yeah it's not against the rules but still it's immature and stupid. Only because Klaz has done good commentaries (and ovverated IMO) he should'nt get votes for his book. I understand that Klaz is so egocentric that he'll do anything to get someone to read it but I'm not going to support it.
Well, the whole point of this thing is not to show "what gamers can do" and inviting support in general for your book is actually encouraged at authonomy but as the last couple of days have shown hoghly controversial.
I'd suggest you read the book and a couple of others over at authonomy and then cast your vote on what you like. Nobody forces you to register at authonomy and support Klazart.
On March 26 2009 05:25 achap54 wrote: If Klazart doesn't make it to the editor's desk this month, he'll be in the number one spot at the begining of next month, once the other five are taken down. With his constant flow of votes, I don't see any way he can miss next month (if he doesn't make it this month). So, in the long run, he'll get there one way or the other.
Although it may not seem like it, there is a limit to the Klazart fan population, and I'm sure that 80% of them, if they would have ever helped him have already helped him.
Well you have to remember that klaz has about 9000 suscribers and only around 1250 people have backed his book, + the people in the community who are neutral to klaz but hate the people at authonomy, +4chan ppl doing it for the lulz+ people who are fans of sc in general ect. Id say Klaz's backing army is nowhere near dry or "80%".
I am not very clear sometimes so I will rephrase: of the people that would take the time to vote for Klaz, I think 80% have already done so. This is just a guess of course, but I think that something like a video promotion in this case has a response of a bell-curve with the x-axis being time and y-axis being votes/day. I think the apex has passed.
It looks like Klazart's initial rush was 700 votes (on March 21st). His vote count, rising steadily, is presently 1311. Five days to go until the contest ends. Will there be another surge?
It appears that the folks in charge at the website have banned new users from backing Klazart's book because I just registered and was able to "back" other shitty books but not Klazart's. An attempt to back Klazart's book pops up with a message saying "too many requests from this computer."
edit - Hrm, appears it affects other books randomly actually.
Schnake, Yes and I hope that everyone will do the same. Unfortenately there seems to be a lot of people who doesn't read the books but just vote for Klaz because of his commentaries and I think that is stupid. As I said yes it follows the rules at authonomy but we all know that it's not what they intended to happen and therefor it's immature and mean towards the people in that community to sabbotage through voting for someone not because of the book but other factors.
On March 26 2009 21:58 Loffeman wrote: Schnake, Yes and I hope that everyone will do the same. Unfortenately there seems to be a lot of people who doesn't read the books but just vote for Klaz because of his commentaries and I think that is stupid. As I said yes it follows the rules at authonomy but we all know that it's not what they intended to happen and therefor it's immature and mean towards the people in that community to sabbotage through voting for someone not because of the book but other factors.
I see what you're saying but bitter truth is that most popularity contests are like that. I would be shocked if even 1 out of top100 books were voted purely by people who read it and liked it. Klazarts book might have higher percentage of voters that didn't read it, but I doubt all of them didn't. I'd also like best books to win, but sadly success equation has popularity in it and that's not going to change.
True but that won't stop me from complaining on those stupid people who does that. Probably won't make much of a diffierence but at least it feels good
Well, I disagree that the influx of Starcraft people and Klazart fans is "wrecking their community."
Perhaps it's the catalyst of this whole thing, but they're just overreacting. Next month, trolls and ridiculous Klazart fans will probably lose interest, and then it will be business as usual on Authonomy, except with more people to give feedback and such.
No wonder. From 9:00 a.m. US Eastern Daylight Savings Time this morning to 2:00 p.m., Klazart's votes went from 1311 to 1329. Is he planning another surge in the last day or two? Five days to go until the contest closes for the month.
On March 27 2009 03:06 achap54 wrote: Klazart's book is still in sixth place.
No wonder. From 9:00 a.m. US Eastern Daylight Savings Time this morning to 2:00 p.m., Klazart's votes went from 1311 to 1329. Is he planning another surge in the last day or two? Five days to go until the contest closes for the month.
He was in fifth place at least twice. He keeps getting pushed down because veterans are voting for the other top books in order to keep him our of top 5. Now that the ranking system has been fixed (I went from being number 257 to 2952) the vets have much more voting power and I doubt that they will ever let klaz make top 5. Not that it matters, the reward is just a crappy book report written by a twelve year old and a guaranteed rejection.
BTW, now that the ruckus has died down a bit, I'm glad that I at least learnt about Starcraft. I played WoW for a few months, got mega rich, but bored and a tad peeved at some of the ... impulsive ... players. Starcraft looks like a great strategy game - I'll be buying a copy. Any advice for a complete noob, e.g. start with the original game? Point me to the thread, wiki, whatever, or is that off-topic?
On March 27 2009 04:35 Floodgate wrote: BTW, now that the ruckus has died down a bit, I'm glad that I at least learnt about Starcraft. I played WoW for a few months, got mega rich, but bored and a tad peeved at some of the ... impulsive ... players. Starcraft looks like a great strategy game - I'll be buying a copy. Any advice for a complete noob, e.g. start with the original game? Point me to the thread, wiki, whatever, or is that off-topic?
Take a look in the Broodwar and Strategy forums. You buy the game in a box set thing that has Starcraft and the expansion Broodwar, I recommend you start playing with Broodwar.
Not all of us are snooty about things. I'm pretty laid back, but I have to say, if you vote for the book without even bothering to read any of it, then you are confirming what snoots are saying. Please don't give them justification.
But... Please... can someone tell me what the darned rush is about? He doesn't need to rush.
On March 27 2009 04:35 Floodgate wrote: BTW, now that the ruckus has died down a bit, I'm glad that I at least learnt about Starcraft. I played WoW for a few months, got mega rich, but bored and a tad peeved at some of the ... impulsive ... players. Starcraft looks like a great strategy game - I'll be buying a copy. Any advice for a complete noob, e.g. start with the original game? Point me to the thread, wiki, whatever, or is that off-topic?
Take a look in the Broodwar and Strategy forums. You buy the game in a box set thing that has Starcraft and the expansion Broodwar, I recommend you start playing with Broodwar.
Thanks, and thanks to Snow Fantasy, much appreciated.
god, i read the comment from banana (2nd above vilda), thats pretty fucked up.. people only reading others books and flattering for months just to increase their own books ranking? sounds like hell to me. no surprise some of them are really pissed after your success.
Okay... from this comment do I deduce that you don't believe in working hard for something that you want? I don't think so. I've been on Auth for six months. I've known for a while that it was mostly a glorious time waster, but I've picked up some useful tips. But it is hard work if you want to be noticed and read. Or it was. Actually, Auth is the least labour intensive of all the sites.
I don't flatter. I only back books that I would actually go out and pay for in the shops. I tend to only comment on books that I enjoy. I firmly believe that if I can't find something constructive to say, it's better to say nothing at all. Just because I don't like something, that's my opinion. I'm no technical whiz... so I cannot offer the view of an editor, I can only comment from the point of view of someone who spends a small fortune on books every year.
To be clear what Auth is and what it is not. It's an electronic slush pile. Nothing less, nothing more. The point of reading and backing is that the pile was supposed to read itself, instead of having lots of office minions do it with real manuscripts delivered to offices every day. There isn't a prize guaranteeing you a contract. Every top five pick so far has been a No. And if you're hoping for an amazing crit from the "Editors".... some folk have been doomed to dreadful disappointment. Some of the reviews have been pants (to put it mildly). But people have been willing to work at it.
On March 26 2009 21:51 General Nuke Em wrote: It appears that the folks in charge at the website have banned new users from backing Klazart's book because I just registered and was able to "back" other shitty books but not Klazart's. An attempt to back Klazart's book pops up with a message saying "too many requests from this computer."
edit - Hrm, appears it affects other books randomly actually.
On March 27 2009 04:39 Mockingbird wrote: Not all of us are snooty about things. I'm pretty laid back, but I have to say, if you vote for the book without even bothering to read any of it, then you are confirming what snoots are saying. Please don't give them justification.
But... Please... can someone tell me what the darned rush is about? He doesn't need to rush.
On March 27 2009 01:42 Zozma wrote: Well, I disagree that the influx of Starcraft people and Klazart fans is "wrecking their community."
Perhaps it's the catalyst of this whole thing, but they're just overreacting. Next month, trolls and ridiculous Klazart fans will probably lose interest, and then it will be business as usual on Authonomy, except with more people to give feedback and such.
Less.... because some folk have pulled out... not necessarily for the reason of Klazart's arrival. Indeed, I've decided to stay on a bit longer because of the fresh injection of new readers. Not sure it will ever be business as usual again to be honest.
Well, the way I understand it, Klazart has fixed his eye on the feedback from a professional editor, and he wants to go straight there without stopping to smell the roses.
It also seems that he has some distrust of the feedback he would get from the regulars on the website, because he has a poor opinion of the whole system.
If you try to walk in his shoes a bit, you can see that he doesn't feel like he's rushing things... he doesn't believe that there's anything useful to him there other than being in the top five and getting his work read by a pro.
On March 27 2009 05:27 Zozma wrote: Well, the way I understand it, Klazart has fixed his eye on the feedback from a professional editor, and he wants to go straight there without stopping to smell the roses.
It also seems that he has some distrust of the feedback he would get from the regulars on the website, because he has a poor opinion of the whole system.
If you try to walk in his shoes a bit, you can see that he doesn't feel like he's rushing things... he doesn't believe that there's anything useful to him there other than being in the top five and getting his work read by a pro.
The system may indeed be "flawed", but let's face it - it works just like real life. It's all about who you know and how many friends you have. No matter what sort of system authonomy implements, as long as it depends on interrelations between users, they can't avoid this simple truth.
I don't really have much faith in the system. While there may be some people there who do give genuine feedback, it's difficult to know who to trust and who to not.
For me the fact that the people at the top are also the people who have been most active in "giving feeback" and backing other books is no coincidence. And everything that has happened over the past few days, the reactions and all the rest has only re-enforced this view.
I'm probably not going to be in the top 5 this month, and the "elders" have enough power to repeat the same thing next month unless I play their game, which I don't really want to. So it's back to plan B.
On March 27 2009 05:27 Zozma wrote: Well, the way I understand it, Klazart has fixed his eye on the feedback from a professional editor, and he wants to go straight there without stopping to smell the roses.
It also seems that he has some distrust of the feedback he would get from the regulars on the website, because he has a poor opinion of the whole system.
If you try to walk in his shoes a bit, you can see that he doesn't feel like he's rushing things... he doesn't believe that there's anything useful to him there other than being in the top five and getting his work read by a pro.
To be frank, pro is a fairly unreliable term... read what passes for gold star crits by the "pros" of Authonomy. I've seen better Eng Comp homework by twelve year olds. And often the gold star crits tell you precisely nothing useful. But.... the site has some real heavy hitters who are pros in the world of critique. There are a couple of professional critics who write for newspapers, a few editors, and some agents. all of which will be more helpful than anything he will score from the ED.
On March 27 2009 05:27 Zozma wrote: Well, the way I understand it, Klazart has fixed his eye on the feedback from a professional editor, and he wants to go straight there without stopping to smell the roses.
It also seems that he has some distrust of the feedback he would get from the regulars on the website, because he has a poor opinion of the whole system.
If you try to walk in his shoes a bit, you can see that he doesn't feel like he's rushing things... he doesn't believe that there's anything useful to him there other than being in the top five and getting his work read by a pro.
To be frank, pro is a fairly unreliable term... read what passes for gold star crits by the "pros" of Authonomy. I've seen better Eng Comp homework by twelve year olds. And often the gold star crits tell you precisely nothing useful. But.... the site has some real heavy hitters who are pros in the world of critique. There are a couple of professional critics who write for newspapers, a few editors, and some agents. all of which will be more helpful than anything he will score from the ED.
Then tell him that! I didn't say I agree with him, and I don't disagree with him either. I just don't know. All I'm saying is that if I understand what he thinks, that's what he thinks.
I don't really have much faith in the system. While there may be some people there who do give genuine feedback, it's difficult to know who to trust and who to not.
For me the fact that the people at the top are also the people who have been most active in "giving feeback" and backing other books is no coincidence. And everything that has happened over the past few days, the reactions and all the rest has only re-enforced this view.
I'm probably not going to be in the top 5 this month, and the "elders" have enough power to repeat the same thing next month unless I play their game, which I don't really want to. So it's back to plan B.
It's dead easy to spot the useful crits. They're the ones that tell you unpalatable truths. The ones who say: This is good. That is bad. More of this. Less of that. Message JayG. You will get 3,500 words on your ms.... and it will be completely devoid of flannel, or sucking up. You may need to sit down whilst reading it, because he pulls no punches whatsoever. I'm not wild about the guy, but he's published, so he has some reference. NickP. Again, I'm not over keen on the guy, but he knows writing. These guys are real pros, with real knowledge who can help you.
At 10:00 p.m. US EST(Daylight), Klazart is at 1358 votes (vs 1311 at 9:00 a.m.). Klazart has gained forty-seven votes in the past thirteen hours.
Also, the long time Authonomy users have regained their voting power (apparently the thirty day rolling average aspect of the voting power formula has kicked in).
Has the balance of power shifted? Maybe. But Klazart has mentioned a plan B?
I don't really have much faith in the system. While there may be some people there who do give genuine feedback, it's difficult to know who to trust and who to not.
For me the fact that the people at the top are also the people who have been most active in "giving feeback" and backing other books is no coincidence. And everything that has happened over the past few days, the reactions and all the rest has only re-enforced this view.
I'm probably not going to be in the top 5 this month, and the "elders" have enough power to repeat the same thing next month unless I play their game, which I don't really want to. So it's back to plan B.
"hey everyone go vote for my book" "those bastards are abusing the system to keep me down!" lol
As of 10:00 a.m. US Eastern Standard Time (Daylight), Klazart is in sixth place with 1380 votes, up sixty-nine votes in the past twenty-four hours. Five days to go. Will there be an end game surge?
We also acknowledge that Starcraft is a sport that, once the shock and novelty wears off, is legitimate and deserves to be recognized as serious. We hope that one day it will make its way to the Olympics.
Whoa.....
Hilarious The game has been out for 10 years. And starcraft isn't really a test of human physical capacity and endurance as olympic games are (somewhat of an understatement but bear with me).
I have written a book. It is a 2030 page dissection of the motivations of an old man who spends his retirement driving around in his old Cadillac, causing an array of problems and accidents, which he skews in different ways and tries to pan off as mistakes of senility or, otherwise, other peoples naive missteps. He eventually goes into debt, rakes up terrible credit, and in the end, on page 1109, drives off a cliff in jovial spirits in attainment of complete freedom. The rest of the some 950 pages are focused on a review and reflection of what happened in the first part of the book.
On March 28 2009 02:10 Qwertify wrote: I have written a book. It is a 2030 page dissection of the motivations of an old man who spends his retirement driving around in his old Cadillac, causing an array of problems and accidents, which he skews in different ways and tries to pan off as mistakes of senility or, otherwise, other peoples naive missteps. He eventually goes into debt, rakes up terrible credit, and in the end, on page 1109, drives off a cliff in jovial spirits in attainment of complete freedom. The rest of the some 950 pages are focused on a review and reflection of what happened in the first part of the book.
It is called, "The old man and the devil."
Sounds like a thing a lot of people would like to read... + Show Spoiler +
On March 28 2009 02:10 Qwertify wrote: I have written a book. It is a 2030 page dissection of the motivations of an old man who spends his retirement driving around in his old Cadillac, causing an array of problems and accidents, which he skews in different ways and tries to pan off as mistakes of senility or, otherwise, other peoples naive missteps. He eventually goes into debt, rakes up terrible credit, and in the end, on page 1109, drives off a cliff in jovial spirits in attainment of complete freedom. The rest of the some 950 pages are focused on a review and reflection of what happened in the first part of the book.
It is called, "The old man and the devil."
Sounds like a thing a lot of people would like to read... + Show Spoiler +
At 3:30 p.m. US Eastern Standard Time (Daylight), Klazart's vote count is 1392, up twelve votes in the past five hours. Less than five full days to go. Is this the calm before the storm?
He's already got sufficient attention for his book by trying to game the crappy system to get another crappy book out there. Write something good and I'll support it - there's too much shit out there as it is.
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet (didn't see it), but apparently the top authonomy regulars were so upset that they banded together and got everyone to vote the top 5 up really really high. There is no way to "thumb down" a book, but they were going to try to get the top 5 as high as possible so that Klazart wouldn't be able to break in.
Kindof an interesting guerilla warfare going on. If Klazart's fans were a zerg swarm, the authonomy regulars have built a bunker and have all their scvs repairing it.
On March 28 2009 13:07 stack wrote: can we not vote him up.
He's already got sufficient attention for his book by trying to game the crappy system to get another crappy book out there. Write something good and I'll support it - there's too much shit out there as it is.
can't have your cake and eat it.
Are you sure it's crappy? to me it looked pretty promising. Anyway, do as you please
The youtube subscription update gets sent out on saturday. A certain number of people will watch the video when that update gets sent. Perhaps it will be enough to pull klazart through.
On March 28 2009 13:07 stack wrote: can we not vote him up.
He's already got sufficient attention for his book by trying to game the crappy system to get another crappy book out there. Write something good and I'll support it - there's too much shit out there as it is.
can't have your cake and eat it.
Are you sure it's crappy? to me it looked pretty promising. Anyway, do as you please
Klazart's book has promise. He's missed a big trick by circumventing the part that would have helped him hone and polish the ms, but that's his choice. He wants the gold star review, quite what he thinks he's going to do with it (or what it is going to do for him when he gets it), I am not at all certain, but I am fairly certain that he's going to be somewhat disappointed when it happens. The gold star review is a bit like a joke with no punchline... you keep waiting for something amazing to happen... and it doesn't.
On March 28 2009 13:07 stack wrote: can we not vote him up.
He's already got sufficient attention for his book by trying to game the crappy system to get another crappy book out there. Write something good and I'll support it - there's too much shit out there as it is.
can't have your cake and eat it.
Are you sure it's crappy? to me it looked pretty promising. Anyway, do as you please
Klazart's book has promise. He's missed a big trick by circumventing the part that would have helped him hone and polish the ms, but that's his choice. He wants the gold star review, quite what he thinks he's going to do with it (or what it is going to do for him when he gets it), I am not at all certain, but I am fairly certain that he's going to be somewhat disappointed when it happens. The gold star review is a bit like a joke with no punchline... you keep waiting for something amazing to happen... and it doesn't.
They better be careful with a review of Klazart's novel and put some effort into it. Otherwise I see angry gamer mobs with torches and pitchforks set loose... Well, any PR is better than no PR... :D
Kindof an interesting guerilla warfare going on. If Klazart's fans were a zerg swarm, the authonomy regulars have built a bunker and have all their scvs repairing it.
This is so awesome. LOL!
I don't think he'll make top 5! The regulars have united! This sure was interesting to follow.
I've been on Authonomy since last November. My book, Savannah Passion, presently sits in forty-first position. I've reviewed hundreds of book excerpts posted on Authonomy. In my opinion, Klazart's book is well above average compared to those I've read on Authonomy.
I've made major revisions to my book three time on the way to it's present position. As Mockingbird has said, Klazart initially missed the opportunity to get suggestions from Authonomy authors to polish his book before it hit the editor's desk. But, he's starting to get critiques from Authonomy regulars and those reviews could help him revised his book.
If Klazart doesn't get to the editor's desk this month, he'll start next month in first position and he's likely to make it that month. With an extra month, Klazart will garner more reviews from Authonomy regulars, many of which will contain helpful suggestions.
Have there ever been any known authors who got published from this thing? I feel like there's so much fuss going on for maybe nothing? I mean, I've been published before but I'm not even proud of the fact at this point, I hardly made any money, and nobody cares about it. So I'm thinking Mockingbird, although sounding sort of listless about this whole thing, is pretty much right on the money. Nothing really significant/great is going to come out of this, so just relax and don't take it so seriously.
On March 29 2009 01:06 Xeris wrote: Have there ever been any known authors who got published from this thing? I feel like there's so much fuss going on for maybe nothing? I mean, I've been published before but I'm not even proud of the fact at this point, I hardly made any money, and nobody cares about it. So I'm thinking Mockingbird, although sounding sort of listless about this whole thing, is pretty much right on the money. Nothing really significant/great is going to come out of this, so just relax and don't take it so seriously.
The advance on a first book of commercial fiction is meger in the United States. I have no idea what a typical advance is for a first book of commercial fiction in Britian. The advances go up book by book as long as the author's reader base increases. Generally they go up slowly.
In romance (my genre) fifty percent of authors who sell one book don't ever sell another book.
The people who make a decent living writing commercial fiction are few. The people who make a killing at it are rare.
On March 29 2009 01:06 Xeris wrote: Have there ever been any known authors who got published from this thing? I feel like there's so much fuss going on for maybe nothing? I mean, I've been published before but I'm not even proud of the fact at this point, I hardly made any money, and nobody cares about it. So I'm thinking Mockingbird, although sounding sort of listless about this whole thing, is pretty much right on the money. Nothing really significant/great is going to come out of this, so just relax and don't take it so seriously.
Hello, I found this thread after googling my name to see where I'm being mentioned, and was amazed to find my poem on one of the threads. Thanks to whoever posted it.
In answer to the above Q. - I've been on authonomy since last September. authonomy had only been online for a month or so before that. So known authors wouldn't have been published from it as it hasn't been going long enough.
In any case, none of the top 5 winners who got reviews (it happens each month) have been published as a result of being winners, and I don't think any of them have been published at all.
3 authors who had books on authonomy got publishing contracts but I think I'm correct in saying at least one of them had an agent who was instrumental in that working out for them, rather than their presence on authonomy being any crucial factor in their success.
The editors 'reviews' are largely not worth the paper they aren't written on. Once a book gets the review hardly anyone on authonomy ever visits that book again.
The 'peer' reviews by folk trying to rise in the ranks are similarly useless. They aren't going to say anything bad to anyone they perceive as potentially valuable to them, and often if someone makes a genuine crit (as I did - never having any expectations of the 'race' ) the result is a vituperative and aggressive response from an aggrieved author.
I removed my books shortly after the influx of newbies, because I was sickened at the unpleasant response to people I saw as potential readers.
My silly poems were ironically doing quite well - but they have a loyal readership on their own blog anyway (75,000 + visitors so far) and I have now settled my book into its own blog with about 20 readers a day. I am keeping an eye on what happens on authonomy as there are some books I am enjoying - Lesser Sins being one of them.
But as far as it being a pathway to success.
Maybe it is but in the same way Stars in Their Eyes is a pathway to singing fame and fortune
so Not - really.
edited to remove unintentional smiley from parenthesis.
welcome to tl.net : ) hope u visit every now and then it would be a pleasure to have another sentient individual with such good nature to drop by every now and then
On March 29 2009 01:06 Xeris wrote: Have there ever been any known authors who got published from this thing? I feel like there's so much fuss going on for maybe nothing? I mean, I've been published before but I'm not even proud of the fact at this point, I hardly made any money, and nobody cares about it. So I'm thinking Mockingbird, although sounding sort of listless about this whole thing, is pretty much right on the money. Nothing really significant/great is going to come out of this, so just relax and don't take it so seriously.
You may not care about your own writing, but other people take theirs pretty seriously, and expect others to do so as well.
On March 26 2009 04:11 fanatacist wrote: I think this topic has honestly been beaten to a gluey pulp after failing to finish first in a horse race. What else could be discussed here? They have made an apology, an announcement, and Klazart's book is still up on the site. I think a fair verdict has been arrived at, and that any further discussion should happen at authonomy, for authonomy.
this... seriously y do we care so much about something happening at another site completely unrelated to us about a guy that's not even part of the tl community... i mean yeah itwas interesting but i think the topic's been over done already like fanatacist said
On March 30 2009 09:22 baubo wrote: How does the system work? His book is on more bookshelves and watchlists than any of the books in the top 5. Yet it's not in the top 5?
They have a pretty much messed up system there at authonomy.
A book rises on the charts based on 'shelving' (also known as backing). To support a book an Authonomy user places it on their bookshelf and a vote for the book is secretly tallied by HC. The size of the vote tallied when a person shelves a book depends on their Talent Spotter Rank. The better a person is at spotting talent, the more valuable their support is.
At this point, the book can be removed from the user's bookshelf, but the vote for the book remains. Since many people back several books over the course of a week and there are only five spots on their bookshelf, people tend to rotate books through their bookshelf.
Thus, the number of shelves a person's book presently sits on isn't an accurate reflection of the number of votes they have received. Klazart's tally is the exception, as few of his supporters have rotated their bookshelves.
The number of watchlists a book is on doesn't directly figure in the voting. Indirectly, it does as being on a watchlist generally indicates an interest in reading the book which will often translate into a vote later on.
i can see how that would work but isnt the general audiance meaning book buying citizens in general shouldnt their vote count for something even though the people at the site are definetly more profesional isnt being seen by the general public even more important then just a few authors, im not saying everyone should like the book/dislike the book im just saying shouldnt just random visitors who legitimitly like the book get a decent vote
People watch a movie or read a book for a character or for an author or just because their friends told them to read/watch. I don't see any problem when Klaz asks for help. I find it pretty cool that people actually helped him : it shows how important the community can have and this is really the beauty of it. And finally, the "rule" of the game was : get votes and be published, right ? I assume many authors have requested their family or friends to help them. Klaz has more friends than these people, that's all (and he asks help officially -on youtube so you can't make it more official-).
True, MK. Many people on authonomy have also helped Klaz, some by backing him after reading and deciding his story is promising, some by just offering advice on his novel. There are detractors, of course; same as here, there are all sorts of different people and opinions. We even have more than a few gamers.
Yes, the rules of the site include getting votes, of family and friends amongst others. But the rules, as set up by authonomy, are also that some votes count more than others. So that sweetie who said 'why don't all you old ppl have a heart attack and die' doesn't carry the same weight as someone who's stuck around and done some work.
Oh, and to those who advised me earlier, thanks again - I've ordered Starcraft with Brood Wars from Amazon - a whopping 7 quid.
On March 29 2009 01:06 Xeris wrote: Have there ever been any known authors who got published from this thing? I feel like there's so much fuss going on for maybe nothing? I mean, I've been published before but I'm not even proud of the fact at this point, I hardly made any money, and nobody cares about it. So I'm thinking Mockingbird, although sounding sort of listless about this whole thing, is pretty much right on the money. Nothing really significant/great is going to come out of this, so just relax and don't take it so seriously.
You may not care about your own writing, but other people take theirs pretty seriously, and expect others to do so as well.
It's not that I don't care or don't take my writing seriously, but personally I feel like a lot of people are going way overboard with how seriously they're taking it (maybe, I haven't followed much going on at that site)... but I feel like sort of the idea these people have is like; "omg this Klaz guy is stealing my chance at the spotlight, this random authonomy rank is going to make my career as a writer" ... and so obviously their rage at Klaz begins, but my argument is that this authonomy thing isn't going to be paying off for anybody down the road.
People don't understand how fucking hard it is to sell books once they're published. First, you get little to no advance, second you hardly get any royalties (the percentage royalty you get increases at certain thresholds of books sold, at least for my contract), and unless you're with a really top rated publishing company who will mass-print your book and ship it out to major booksellers everywhere, the onus is on you to do the work.
So let's recap: you have to advertise, market, etc, your own book.. the publishing company will do little to no work aside from printing it and shipping it where it's ordered, you get little to no money (probably the amount of money you make won't even be equal to the amount of time you spend marketing it, let alone writing it). Overall, it's a very unglamorous thing, and nobody besides you is really going to care about your published book aside from giving you a pat on the back.
But then again let's face it, most people don't write for the money, because 99% of writers can't make a living off their works (fuck I haven't sold a copy of my book in over 2 years)... it's more of a passion for them. My argument is then, if it's just their passion, who cares if some guy gets his friends to mass-vote for his book... in the grand scheme of things, it's not going to affect THEIR writing at all, maybe they have a slightly less chance at getting some rookie publishing deal, but big woop, they can get it somewhere else, or maybe just wait a little longer. If the passion is about writing, this shouldn't be making these writers so angry
I am absolutely new to this site (I'm talking moments ago), although I used to be a de facto gamer (back in the day). That is, we would build networks of datacomm switches, then run a whole bunch of copies of Quake with an eye for network traffic analysis (that was a big deal back then). My real claim to fame was beating Blue Stinger in less than five hours which -- while it may suck by today's standards -- ain't bad for a dinosaur.
At any rate... I'm not sure exactly how to go about posting this, so I'm just going to start from... here. The subject is: Klazart, Authonomy and the recent Upheaval.
Rather than post the stuff here (and using up a bunch of Liquid space) I'll just post the link where it can be found. With so many Starcraft newbies at Authonomy... I thought there might be some interest in what really happened. My hope is that it will help prevent future web site stampedes; not just at Authonomy, but everywhere. Maybe not.
As a member/author at Authonomy I was in the middle of writing an incredibly lame post about the Watchlist (and otherwise playing with a sort of modernized Gothic style) when... it hit the fan...
On April 02 2009 12:55 Physician wrote: “Just because one has a rubber snake does not mean one should toss it into the herd.”
lol, not bad, keeping it, thanks ~
btw we don't mind space intelligent usage, the blog area is pretty open, u might get more feedback
HI Physician,
Thanks for the input. I was hesitant to post the whole thing in one fell swoop -- don't know my way around here and didn't want to immediately frost everyone's balls. I'm afraid I'm extremely un-hep when it comes to blogs and such.
I did, however, take all of the posts from that thread, cleared out the extraneous stuff, and put it all into one new, improved, easier to follow file. The problem is... now I don't know where to shove it. Any suggestions?
OK, I figured out how to start a blog. Unfortunately they won't let me start a blog until I've been here five days. Frankly, I think that's fairly sound policy. On the other hand... it doesn't make it any easier to save the planet....
- You can't justify what Klazart did by saying others did the same but too a lesser extent. 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. If someone else stole a candy from a shop that doesn't mean it's ok for me to rob a bank.
- Asking for someone to vote on your book without reading the content = voting for the author's popularity, not the book's quality. On a context where the book's quality should be the focus, not the author. Doing that would be unethical. In my personal opinion.
- But if the site owner disagrees and think voting for the author's popularity and not the book's quality is actually valid. Then Klazart is innocent, he just played by the rules. It's the website's fault for making unfair (imho) rules in the first place. Authonomy is apparently even enjoying the extra audience a lot.
- Conclusion: any negative repercussion that this issue might have (one's reputation comes into mind) should go directly to Authonomy.com, not to Klazart. Even tho I think what he did was unethical, he just played by the rules.
On April 02 2009 05:20 Eugene_Saint wrote: Rather than post the stuff here (and using up a bunch of Liquid space) I'll just post the link where it can be found. With so many Starcraft newbies at Authonomy... I thought there might be some interest in what really happened. My hope is that it will help prevent future web site stampedes; not just at Authonomy, but everywhere. Maybe not.
As a member/author at Authonomy I was in the middle of writing an incredibly lame post about the Watchlist (and otherwise playing with a sort of modernized Gothic style) when... it hit the fan...
On March 26 2009 15:30 HawaiianPig wrote: May not want to piss off the guy too much.
Lotta piss and vinegar in this one. Must be cathartic to have a punching bag near the computer when you get so invested in the dealings of an online community.
Just found this on another thread where besiger was "calling out jello_biafra"
On March 03 2009 23:05 besiger wrote: nope silv, when i get mad over a game of starcraft i just swear out loud and go punch my punching bag, but i never insult people i just lost to, no matter how badly i lost.
EPT
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