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On November 06 2008 14:04 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 11:50 travis wrote:On November 06 2008 11:47 DM20 wrote:
I hope you guys realize that the main point of prop 8 was to ban the "teaching" of homosexuality in schools, could you explain what this even means Parents were afraid that when a state backed a form of marriage that wasn't a man and a woman public schools when discussing marriage would have to also discuss homosexual marriaged and thus discuss homosexuallity with young and impressionable minds increasing the chances that children would be "fine" or "ok" with homosexuallity in general. This is a fear people have... making homosexuallity more mainstream will make it more of an "option" for their children.
as cyric asked, where does marriage even come up in public school?
I would say that proposition 8 is much more likely to come up in public school than the institution of marriage.
This "fear" is also just so, so ridiculous. But you probably already know that.
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On November 07 2008 00:00 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 23:56 Kwark wrote:
In the UK we avoided this whole issue by inventing civil partnerships which have the same legal status as marriage but are in no way religious. Anyone can get them. Separation of Church and State etc. That's far too rational to work here.
Yeah sometimes this is a matter of rights.
I'm sure some will be happy with that but others want the status MARRIED not something else. Really the wedding is just a ceremony done usually by a religious group. The status is done by state and is legal matter meaning they should be able to get that no matter what if we are for equality.
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On November 06 2008 23:56 Kwark wrote:
In the UK we avoided this whole issue by inventing civil partnerships which have the same legal status as marriage but are in no way religious. Anyone can get them. Separation of Church and State etc.
Since when has the UK adopted the 1st amendment? 
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Murk, Have you ever looked into any other religions or read any other religion's texts. You seem like someone who just doesnt question the world around him. You read the bible and figure this has to be 100% correct? Most christians do not believe in every word of the bible, so its got nothing to do with being faithful to your god. You just seem like a simpleton who is happy to stay in his own little world and believe the first thing he was taught.
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United States44436 Posts
On November 07 2008 00:04 MoltkeWarding wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 23:56 Kwark wrote:
In the UK we avoided this whole issue by inventing civil partnerships which have the same legal status as marriage but are in no way religious. Anyone can get them. Separation of Church and State etc. Since when has the UK adopted the 1st amendment?
It hasn't. My point is that it is merely a rational way of avoiding religious questions getting into what is essentially a secular union.
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On November 06 2008 23:20 D10 wrote:
Im a christian, and I wholeheartly belive the Bible must not be followed up for every word.
Its been hugely missinterpreted along history, people dont want to think about it on the context it represents for each period of history, but as a final guideline for spirituality
If i must put it this way, the bible to me is a guide, an inspiration.
The radical interpretations that the zealots use as an excuse for exclusion and "tradition" are just something else we need to break in order to fullfill jesus ideals of love and charity.
We are all gods children, and no sheep will be lost, someday I hope all you against it for religious reasons will look back and realize that gay people are as human as we are, and deserve as much as we do.
Using a book whose purpose is inspire mankind to greatness for the opposite is, in my opinion, the true work of evil forces in mankind.
This is what a christian should be.
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On November 06 2008 23:20 D10 wrote:
Im a christian, and I wholeheartly belive the Bible must not be followed up for every word.
Its been hugely missinterpreted along history, people dont want to think about it on the context it represents for each period of history, but as a final guideline for spirituality
If i must put it this way, the bible to me is a guide, an inspiration.
The radical interpretations that the zealots use as an excuse for exclusion and "tradition" are just something else we need to break in order to fullfill jesus ideals of love and charity.
We are all gods children, and no sheep will be lost, someday I hope all you against it for religious reasons will look back and realize that gay people are as human as we are, and deserve as much as we do.
Using a book whose purpose is inspire mankind to greatness for the opposite is, in my opinion, the true work of evil forces in mankind.
/applaud. You, sir, have won the internet.
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On November 06 2008 23:36 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 23:26 Murk wrote:
You know, I just dont understand. Every chrisitan should be agreein with me, but yet they stick up for the homo's, and in the same sentence say their christian.Its obvious alot agree with me or this law wouldnt have passed, so it just leads me to wat i said before, alot of you guys are infact homosexual, its the only reason why you would have a problem with this law, cause it shouldnt affect you in any way What's much more obvious is that you are either a troll or retarded (or maybe both).
if only he was clearly trolling then I could enjoy seeing this melon-head get banned and not be bigot myself.
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On November 06 2008 23:40 Murk wrote:
Let me clear up another thing, my disgust for gay's has nothing to do with god, i just dont understand how christians are sticking up for homosexuality, and if your idea of progress, is homosexuality being accepted, i dont want any part of it, your from brazil how do they look at gays down there? cause i know in jamaica you can get shot for that, and i know brazil isnt any better lol
Its people like you who should be sterilized. It's kind of sad that gay people can't biologically have children but little dipshits like you can.
With regards to Jamaica, you probably would get shot for being gay but that just goes to show that it's countries lagging behind in development and progress that are the ones which have the least tolerance of gays. And based on your post, I wouldn't even be surprised if you're from there, so if your hatred for homosexuality doesn't stem from religion, but merely because they are different, why do you think Blacks should be treated with equality in a society where they are a minority and different as well?
Edit: To be clear, I think everyone, no matter creed, skin colour, sexual orientation etc. should be treated equally. My question to Murk is just one of curiosity.
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d10, even if the bible is open to different interpretations; even if there have been several versions with conflicting messages, (Septuagint vs. dead sea scrolls, Latin Vulgate vs Erasmus's Greek translation); even if there has been evidence of certain tinkerings of the word order, (placing Priscilla after Aquila to affirm male superiority, etc.) ... even with all these things, how can one possibly misinterpret the Bible's saying on homosexuality?
it's way too clear. so before you say the bible is open to error, which is true, and that should be taken more figuratively than literally, there are still places in the Bible where the imperative is used, and these are not open to any other possible interpretation WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE BIBLE BACK OFF YOU BIBLE HATERS. D10, read 1Corinthinas 6 : 9-10 and tell me how that could possibly construed another way.
for others: I am not claiming the Bible is proof that homosexuality is wrong. LISTEN. I believe it is proof for me and my moral belief that homosexuality and gay marriage is wrong, but WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO OUR BELIEFS, we just can't force them on others. so back off.
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On November 06 2008 19:32 Yaqoob wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 18:39 Fen wrote:On November 06 2008 18:07 Yaqoob wrote:
I am glad they banned gay marriage. I wish they'd ban it in Ontario, Canada too. Any reasoning behind this opinion? I am very religious person and I don't like gay people. I'm just being honest. As for centric saying to Murk 'its people like you that make me be embarrassed to be a christian'... In the bible the people of Lot were all destroyed for being gay and committing acts of homosexuality. Its Christians who try to sugar coat their religion that disgusts me. In Christianity marriage is between man and woman and the fact that the people of Lot were punished and destroyed for being gay and committing acts of homosexuality should ring a bell in any christian minds as to what their religion thinks of this. Also, I am not a Christian but I have read the whole Bible about 2 times.
The Bible says a lot of things, and if I ever had the motivation to ever read through it, I'm sure I could find a lot of things which could be easily misinterpreted to make most Christians sinning monsters.
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On November 07 2008 00:33 d_so wrote:
for others: I am not claiming the Bible is proof that homosexuality is wrong. LISTEN. I believe it is proof for me and my moral belief that homosexuality and gay marriage is wrong, but WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO OUR BELIEFS, we just can't force them on others. so back off.
no
your belief has an affect on others
that means you give up your right to say its just an opinion and we cant criticize it.
if you just sit at home thinking about how much you hate gays thats fine, we'll think you're a jackass but thats it. when you go out and try to tell other people how to live their lives its no longer just a belief.
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On November 07 2008 00:31 Masamune wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 23:40 Murk wrote:
Let me clear up another thing, my disgust for gay's has nothing to do with god, i just dont understand how christians are sticking up for homosexuality, and if your idea of progress, is homosexuality being accepted, i dont want any part of it, your from brazil how do they look at gays down there? cause i know in jamaica you can get shot for that, and i know brazil isnt any better lol Its people like you who should be sterilized. It's kind of sad that gay people can't biologically have children but little dipshits like you can. With regards to Jamaica, you probably would get shot for being gay but that just goes to show that it's countries lagging behind in development and progress that are the ones which have the least tolerance of gays. And based on your post, I wouldn't even be surprised if you're from there, so if your hatred for homosexuality doesn't stem from religion, but merely because they are different, why do you think Blacks should be treated with equality in a society where they are a minority and different as well?
you're crazy masaumune, on so many levels.
great, you support gays. but if someone is against gays, then you stoop down to their level?
the difference between blacks and gays is this:
blacks are genetically black.
gays are genetically PREDISPOSED to be gay.
but ultimately, being gay requires a choice. kinda like fat people. yeah, all these studies show that there's a genetic makeup to being fat. but it's also the fat people's choice to not work out, not be careful what they eat about, etc. and in the end, they're fat and they're disgusting to look at. [BRING IT ON FATTIES]
this is how christianity looks at gays. we understand. dick sucking, yaknow, probably feels good either guy or girl. anal sex: hell, if girls like it, i'm sure some guys do too; whatever. there's biological proof that the anus is a pleasure point, whether you're gay or straight. so we understand, really, that it is a possibility; we also understand that some are more inclined to be gay than others -- but we do not cast a blind eye on the choice, and power of will to make or decline a choice.
if they make that choice, then once again, we really can't judge. sinners are sinners no matter what the sin, and it's not our place to judge. but the bible tells us how to run our church, what laws to keep as the body of christ -- meaning that even if we individually fuck up, the church must be kept holy in such and such fashion, as dictated by the bible. thus, even if we can be tolerant of gays, we can't allow them to marry in our church.
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On November 07 2008 00:05 Fen wrote:
Murk, Have you ever looked into any other religions or read any other religion's texts. You seem like someone who just doesnt question the world around him. You read the bible and figure this has to be 100% correct? Most christians do not believe in every word of the bible, so its got nothing to do with being faithful to your god. You just seem like a simpleton who is happy to stay in his own little world and believe the first thing he was taught.
I do not go to church, I havent read the whole bible once, But i do know from what i was taught god did not intend man to lay with man, but with me this has nothing to do with god, Homosexuals disgust me. I simply wanted to know how christians how stick up for gays. I am in No way a religions man. What scares me the most is that their slowly easing this gay stuff in the schools, i worry about what their going to be teaching my kids when they go to school. you clearly got me mistaken for some religion fanatic, this is not the case Homosexuality is wrong, im talking female on female, male on male it doesnt matter. I just dont see when Homosexuality suddenly became accepted... What happend
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On November 07 2008 00:31 Masamune wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2008 23:40 Murk wrote:
Let me clear up another thing, my disgust for gay's has nothing to do with god, i just dont understand how christians are sticking up for homosexuality, and if your idea of progress, is homosexuality being accepted, i dont want any part of it, your from brazil how do they look at gays down there? cause i know in jamaica you can get shot for that, and i know brazil isnt any better lol Its people like you who should be sterilized. It's kind of sad that gay people can't biologically have children but little dipshits like you can. With regards to Jamaica, you probably would get shot for being gay but that just goes to show that it's countries lagging behind in development and progress that are the ones which have the least tolerance of gays. And based on your post, I wouldn't even be surprised if you're from there, so if your hatred for homosexuality doesn't stem from religion, but merely because they are different, why do you think Blacks should be treated with equality in a society where they are a minority and different as well? Edit: To be clear, I think everyone, no matter creed, skin colour, sexual orientation etc. should be treated equally. My question to Murk is just one of curiosity.
Being white black asian or w/e, has nothing to do with homosexuality. I Honestly dont see how your comparing the to. Homosexuality isn't "different" its wrong. I am wondering why you choose to use blacks as an example thou, your point could apply with asian or any other color why does it always have to be black?
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United States44436 Posts
On November 07 2008 00:43 Murk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2008 00:05 Fen wrote:
Murk, Have you ever looked into any other religions or read any other religion's texts. You seem like someone who just doesnt question the world around him. You read the bible and figure this has to be 100% correct? Most christians do not believe in every word of the bible, so its got nothing to do with being faithful to your god. You just seem like a simpleton who is happy to stay in his own little world and believe the first thing he was taught. I do not go to church, I havent read the whole bible once, But i do know from what i was taught god did not intend man to lay with man, but with me this has nothing to do with god, Homosexuals disgust me. I simply wanted to know how christians how stick up for gays. I am in No way a religions man. What scares me the most is that their slowly easing this gay stuff in the schools, i worry about what their going to be teaching my kids when they go to school. you clearly got me mistaken for some religion fanatic, this is not the case Homosexuality is wrong, im talking female on female, male on male it doesnt matter. I just dont see when Homosexuality suddenly became accepted... What happend
Progress?
Seriously, how are you not banned yet.
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Because i am stating my opinion? and im not being rude while im doing it, Since when is freedom of speech not allowed, you just have problems with me from the other forum give it a rest lol
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On November 07 2008 00:37 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2008 00:33 d_so wrote:
for others: I am not claiming the Bible is proof that homosexuality is wrong. LISTEN. I believe it is proof for me and my moral belief that homosexuality and gay marriage is wrong, but WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO OUR BELIEFS, we just can't force them on others. so back off.
no your belief has an affect on others that means you give up your right to say its just an opinion and we cant criticize it. if you just sit at home thinking about how much you hate gays thats fine, we'll think you're a jackass but thats it. when you go out and try to tell other people how to live their lives its no longer just a belief.
you're so wrong.
the only reason i brought it up in the OP was to make sure my state didn't fuck up and vote yes on prop 8, which we did.
i brought it up not to defend or hate against gays. i did it because constitutionally, we were going to make a grave mistake.
how does that tell some people to live one way and others to live another? All i was trying to do was influence a vote.
and according to you, then anyone that has any belief has an effect on others and thus all opinions are open to criticism. Fine; but at a certain point it's impossible to change other people's beliefs. you can try cost-benefit analysis, logic, etc etc. people believe what they believe. you're just gonna waste time.
what we DO with the beliefs is what's important. and i believe prop 8 forces the wrong thing on people, even if i disagree with their beliefs
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United States44436 Posts
On November 07 2008 00:47 Murk wrote:
Because i am stating my opinion? and im not being rude while im doing it, Since when is freedom of speech not allowed, you just have problems with me from the other forum give it a rest lol
No. I find you narrow minded to the point of offensive. You're openly and unashamedly homophobic. I believe that's against the tl rules whereas free speech isn't enshrined in the rules. So again, how are you not banned yet? There's no set guideline to what is natural. Starcraft isn't natural. Animals don't sit at their computers playing RTS games in nature, it's a human perversion. But nobody whines about that.
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On November 07 2008 00:43 Murk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2008 00:05 Fen wrote:
Murk, Have you ever looked into any other religions or read any other religion's texts. You seem like someone who just doesnt question the world around him. You read the bible and figure this has to be 100% correct? Most christians do not believe in every word of the bible, so its got nothing to do with being faithful to your god. You just seem like a simpleton who is happy to stay in his own little world and believe the first thing he was taught. I do not go to church, I havent read the whole bible once, But i do know from what i was taught god did not intend man to lay with man, but with me this has nothing to do with god, Homosexuals disgust me. I simply wanted to know how christians how stick up for gays. I am in No way a religions man. What scares me the most is that their slowly easing this gay stuff in the schools, i worry about what their going to be teaching my kids when they go to school. you clearly got me mistaken for some religion fanatic, this is not the case Homosexuality is wrong, im talking female on female, male on male it doesnt matter. I just dont see when Homosexuality suddenly became accepted... What happend
Why is it wrong?
If you are just disgusted by homosexuals, then you most likely have been socially conditioned by someone to feel that way. Unless of course you have been involved with homosexuals yourself, which I doubt. However this ties into my previous statement. Surely someone has conditioned you to think this way. Have you really questioned it however? Or are you too simpleminded to do so?
You are no different to the person 50 years ago who thought black men were disgusting and needed to be discriminated against. Thankfully, people analysed their reasoning and chose to change their thinking. Your a sad individual.
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