EPTEdit: seems 200 confirmed killed
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 17
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Kreuger
Sweden790 Posts
Edit: seems 200 confirmed killed | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6215 Posts
There's probably also 100+ hostages brought back to the Gaza strip which is not where you'd ever want to be. The response is going to be immense, Gaza strip is going to be flattened | ||
KwarK
United States43203 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden790 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5654 Posts
On October 08 2023 03:17 KwarK wrote: There’s a reasonable chance that allowing an attack serves the current Israeli hardliners too. But not Netanyahu. His whole schtick was being a strongman ensuring security. When the dust settles, people will want accountability. I'm not sure the hardliners have enough power to engineer such a disaster under Netanyahu's nose. | ||
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farvacola
United States18838 Posts
On October 08 2023 03:25 maybenexttime wrote: But not Netanyahu. His whole schtick was being a strongman ensuring security. When the dust settles, people will want accountability. I'm not sure the hardliners have enough power to engineer such a disaster under Netanyahu's nose. The closest thing to a silver lining here is that Bibi and his hardliners suffer on account of being asleep at the wheel despite being warhawks. His opponents will need to be very savvy to make that tack work, but it’s all I got as far as looking for hope in an awful situation. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Israel’s intelligence services have long been seen as some of the most capable in the world, with an array of human intelligence, eavesdropping and other technical means blanketing the West Bank and Gaza. “It is almost inconceivable how they missed this,” said Polymeropoulous. It was also unclear why U.S. intelligence agencies apparently did not see the attack coming as well as friendly Arab states such as Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia, he said. “I am stunned.” But Colin Clarke, senior research fellow at The Soufan Center, a nonprofit that focuses on global security issues, said Israel had to bear the main responsibility for failing to anticipate Saturday’s attack. “Israel has exquisite, world-class intelligence collection and analysis capabilities and would have a far better picture of what’s going on in its own backyard. This one falls squarely on the Israelis,” he said. Clarke added it was an open question whether recent domestic political turmoil in Israel had possibly played a role in the apparent intelligence failure. David Friedman, former U.S. ambassador to Israel in the Trump administration, said, “In the 40 or more years that I’ve been following Israel one way or another, I’ve never seen this happen. I’ve never seen the border breached in this manner. Usually, even one person from Gaza gets close to the border, they’re intercepted and neutralized long before they can do anything. This is just something I’ve never seen before. It’s of course a large intelligence failure.” U.S. officials said early assessments are that the timing of the Hamas attack was related to signs that a deal normalizing relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel was close to being clinched. They also said that the 50-year anniversary of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war also may have been a factor. Source | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6248 Posts
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that the Israeli hardliners who get to power on their violent rhetoric are also cynically exploiting the same violence and are not especially motivated to end it. People are people everywhere. There are assholes everywhere. | ||
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ZeroByte13
775 Posts
Israel can probably flatten entire Gaza Strip if they want but unless they'll somehow move its entire Palestitian population to West bank, this will happen again and again. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12318 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9244 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Israel has called for Palestine citizens to leave Gaza because they will turn every place of Hamas into rubble. Which is insane given that the whole problem of Gaza people is that they are stuck there and have nowhere to go. They already took down some high rises with who knows how many people inside. Large columns of tanks on trailers reportedly being shipped south too so probably a land force move incoming as well. Really worried how far this will escalate. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 08 2023 03:19 Kreuger wrote: The people thinking this was "allowed" to happen are probably the same thinking GW Bush let 9/11 happen, idiots Sums it up | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5654 Posts
On October 08 2023 05:21 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: The images of dead women being paraded on cars as trophies, and women children and grandmas abducted will sour relations for a long time. All of this is so fucked. It's different than a rocket hit. It's so personal. Israel has called for Palestine citizens to leave Gaza because they will turn every place of Hamas into rubble. Which is insane given that the whole problem of Gaza people is that they are stuck there and have nowhere to go. They already took down some high rises with who knows how many people inside. Large columns of tanks on trailers reportedly being shipped south too so probably a land force move incoming as well. Really worried how far this will escalate. The whole attack was extremely barbaric. They were entering houses and killing entire families, including children. They also attacked a rave party on the desert. Most people managed to flee into a nearby kibbutz. The terrorists started to set the houses on fire and execute people escaping them. Fucking animals. | ||
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
It’s not really comparable. In 2001 there wasn’t a large political bloc whose power, wealth and influence depended on an invasion of Afghanistan. It’d be more like if the US government allowed, or dare I say it, manufactured an incident for Cuba or Vietnam. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1947 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12318 Posts
On October 08 2023 06:22 Broetchenholer wrote: And it gets harder and harder to find any support for the palestinean side I could be mistaken but I'd like to think that's not true. I don't think a ton of people will go back to supporting Apartheid because of some violence. The better comms strategy for them was always that they aren't occupiers, not that the occupied are subhumans who deserve it. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1947 Posts
1) Israel utterly crushes Hamas in Gaza, the people in Gaza breath more free for a second and understand that Hamas does not want them to be better off, it just wants to fight Israel and die trying. They revolt and create a peaceful civil governance, trying their very best to keep extremists in check, acting in as much good faith as possible towards Israel as possible, for lets say 20 years. All of that while still being caged in Gaza, cut off from the world. 2) After today, a whistleblower in the israeli goverment comes forward with detailed documentation how the current government first provoked more and more violence between both parties and then ignored warnings from the intelligence services how this attack was imminent, salivating on messenger about how useful a new attack on Israel would be for their careers. Israel is in shock and decides to change direction, kicking the far right out of the government and stopping all provocations towards the palestineans, trying their best to deescalate everything after the "war" has been ended. They manage to somewhat improve the life in Gaza and the Westbank and try to appease the other side to give more influence to the moderates. THey do that despite Hamas continueing to fight for their political relevance with terror. Now, let's not judge how probable the two scenarios are, none of that will happen. But, what do you think, which scenario would have a bigger chance to bring actual peace to the country and create a situation where both sides can actually live somewhat freely besides each other? On October 08 2023 06:37 Nebuchad wrote: I could be mistaken but I'd like to think that's not true. I don't think a ton of people will go back to supporting Apartheid because of some violence. The better comms strategy for them was always that they aren't occupiers, not that the occupied are subhumans who deserve it. I don't know. THere is a limit how much terror a person can excuse for "the right thing" or for "the other side is an Apartheid state". | ||
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