Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On June 20 2026 02:01 Falling wrote: If your claim (which you have yet to correct my characterization, so I'm assuming at this point is a fair reading) is that it was only after Obama that Republicans learned to fight back, then it's not a tangent to bring up examples of the fight occurring before your proposed timeline.
As it is, I don't think you've actually established your claim as to the very specific intention you gave voters for why McCain and Romney got elected.
No, that's way stronger of a claim.
The polite, restrained, yet losing campaigns of McCain and Romney led directly to Trump's "get down with them in the mud/throw it right back at 'em" style of politics. Now that Trump is engaged in the Republican versions of nazi/fascist/pedo smears, it makes little sense to call out Democrats on it. I think your only direct response on the historical record and what I drew from the historical record was "Probably?," so I think you did give me an answer.
It's not that "Republicans learned to fight back," they were always fighting for elections and won in 2000 and 2004. The mud wrestling wasn't new, it was just new to Presidential candidates in recent times. Obama had some veiled stuff on bitter clingers and rising above division, but it was only his allies that said McCain's rallies were like George Wallace the white-supremacist segregationist or Romney would put y'all [African Americans] back in chains.
I want to stress to you, re-reading your posts, that debating the historical record and what that leads me to believe is true is radically different than condoning how it was done or whether people at the time were right for thinking about the issues that way.
You’ve invented this whole alternate history where Democrats would have called Trump a pedophile even if he didn’t constantly go to parties on pedo island with his best friend the pedophile. And so in this history Trump is just returning fire after being attacked. And the attacks don’t really count because even though he does brag about liking them young they would have called him a pedophile anyway so it’s a stopped clock situation.
It’s a fantasy. In the real world Trump gets called a pedophile because of all the pedophilia.
I’m sure it’s a comforting fiction to you to reduce this all to Trump and Epstein. I’m absolutely loving the “constantly go to parties on pedo island,” because the last I heard the most rabid anti-Trump loon can’t even place Trump on the island at any time ever. It’s like you start with a true premise of how bad Trump is, and demand that as license to just spout off nonsense (confident that good people will never call you on it!).
For transparency I’ll accept your correction of the record, according to Roger Stone it wasn’t on the island. The parties with Trump, Epstein, and underage girls that we have eyewitness reports of were in Palm Beach. Epstein had multiple pedo party locations.
Trump doesn’t dispute multiple parties with Epstein, nor that he had great times at them, nor that there were girls there, nor even that he likes his girls young. Donald Trump will, without any prompting at all, freely describe himself as the kind of man to do exactly what he is accused of.
That’s part of what makes this confusing. Why not just go “Epstein did nothing wrong”? If you’re going to commit then commit. Why throw Donald’s friend under the bus and then defend Trump? What real evidence do you have that Epstein was a pedophile?
He also had talked about hot and sexual his daughter is, multiple times on tv and radio.
Totally not creepy and even after watching and listening to it can you really be sure it happened?
I met him on several occasions. Ghislaine Maxwell did introduce me to him and she introduced me to him with a clear message of my "being with him" in the same way that she had trafficked me and brought me to Jeffrey Epstein.
She explains that Ghislaine introduced her in to Trump a way that clearly gave her the message that she was expected to be with him in the way that she was trafficked to Jeffrey Epstein. Literally the same interview you were quoting. She doesn't deny that Ghislaine set her up with Trump, she's saying that she wasn't raped.
In this instance the best you can do, to use your words, is to grab the sentence from the interview following the one where she literally uses the word "trafficked".
EDIT: Let me look at this spoilered section.
So I've looked through again (still feels like I'm feeding a troll) and I didn't find this new quote in any of the three linked sources that you posted. I can't read your mind. If I ask for a source and you give me a source that doesn't include a quote that substantiates your claim, then I'm going to tell you that the source doesn't say that.
So maybe we should start over with the whole providing me a source and making a claim.
On June 20 2026 06:07 dyhb wrote: You're saying that you don't know if Anouska confirmed it
No I'm not.
I met him on several occasions. Ghislaine Maxwell did introduce me to him and she introduced me to him with a clear message of my "being with him" in the same way that she had trafficked me and brought me to Jeffrey Epstein.
She doesn't deny that Ghislaine set her up with Trump, she's saying that she wasn't raped. When trying to explain what it was like being introduced to Trump by Ghislaine the closest comparison she could come up with was that it was a whole lot like being trafficked for sex.
In this instance the best you can do, to use your words, is to grab the sentence from the interview following the one where she literally uses the word "trafficked".
You know that neither link you provided has that quote you just popped in there. I can't read your mind. You either have to link me the source that backs up what you say, or I'm forced to rely on what you have linked thus far as backing up your claims. They didn't, and I pointed that out to you.
What additional source do you want?! It's literally the same damn interview as the one you're already quoting at me from, just 30 seconds earlier in the interview! Did you not look at your source?!
On June 20 2026 06:07 dyhb wrote: You're saying that you don't know if Anouska confirmed it
No I'm not.
I met him on several occasions. Ghislaine Maxwell did introduce me to him and she introduced me to him with a clear message of my "being with him" in the same way that she had trafficked me and brought me to Jeffrey Epstein.
She explains that Ghislaine introduced her in to Trump a way that clearly gave her the message that she was expected to be with him in the way that she was trafficked to Jeffrey Epstein. Literally the same interview you were quoting. She doesn't deny that Ghislaine set her up with Trump, she's saying that she wasn't raped.
In this instance the best you can do, to use your words, is to grab the sentence from the interview following the one where she literally uses the word "trafficked".
EDIT: Let me look at this spoilered section.
Took like a minute to find it. The specific quote comes just after the 6 minute mark.
On June 20 2026 06:07 dyhb wrote: You're saying that you don't know if Anouska confirmed it
No I'm not.
I met him on several occasions. Ghislaine Maxwell did introduce me to him and she introduced me to him with a clear message of my "being with him" in the same way that she had trafficked me and brought me to Jeffrey Epstein.
She doesn't deny that Ghislaine set her up with Trump, she's saying that she wasn't raped. When trying to explain what it was like being introduced to Trump by Ghislaine the closest comparison she could come up with was that it was a whole lot like being trafficked for sex.
In this instance the best you can do, to use your words, is to grab the sentence from the interview following the one where she literally uses the word "trafficked".
You know that neither link you provided has that quote you just popped in there. I can't read your mind. You either have to link me the source that backs up what you say, or I'm forced to rely on what you have linked thus far as backing up your claims. They didn't, and I pointed that out to you.
What additional source do you want?! It's literally the same damn interview as the one you're already quoting at me from, just 30 seconds earlier in the interview! Did you not look at your source?!
On June 20 2026 06:24 dyhb wrote: If I ask for a source and you give me a source that doesn't include a quote that substantiates your claim, then I'm going to tell you that the source doesn't say that.
So maybe we should start over with the whole providing me a source and making a claim.
You took the interview where she talked about being trafficked to Donald Trump, removed the sentence that said she was trafficked, kept the following sentence where she said that she wasn't assaulted by him, and asserted that your source had no mention of trafficking and you had no idea where I was possibly coming up with this. You had that source, you selectively quoted it at me.
On June 20 2026 06:07 dyhb wrote: You're saying that you don't know if Anouska confirmed it
No I'm not.
I met him on several occasions. Ghislaine Maxwell did introduce me to him and she introduced me to him with a clear message of my "being with him" in the same way that she had trafficked me and brought me to Jeffrey Epstein.
She explains that Ghislaine introduced her in to Trump a way that clearly gave her the message that she was expected to be with him in the way that she was trafficked to Jeffrey Epstein. Literally the same interview you were quoting. She doesn't deny that Ghislaine set her up with Trump, she's saying that she wasn't raped.
In this instance the best you can do, to use your words, is to grab the sentence from the interview following the one where she literally uses the word "trafficked".
EDIT: Let me look at this spoilered section.
So I've looked through again (still feels like I'm feeding a troll) and I didn't find this new quote in any of the three linked sources that you posted. I can't read your mind. If I ask for a source and you give me a source that doesn't include a quote that substantiates your claim, then I'm going to tell you that the source doesn't say that.
So maybe we should start over with the whole providing me a source and making a claim.
On June 20 2026 04:26 dyhb wrote: What are the eyewitness reports of underage girls partying with Trump and Epstein
Roger Stone wrote that he was there and saw it.
Also Trump himself. He's on record joking in 2002 about Epstein's habits, his first hand knowledge is evidenced by his own testimony.
Roger Stone, the big Vince Foster conspiracy theory promoter regarding Clinton? And Trump said he went to parties with Epstein and underage girls?
The fuck kinda ancient Greek paradox is dyhb arguing? It's like one step removed from "Someone confessing to a crime makes them a criminal which means their confession is unreliable so it can't be used against them"
If one of your closest allies and confidants was bragging about the dubiously legal sex parties you went to together, that you never actually went to, would you a) immediately exile them from your orbit, or b) continue treating them as your closest ally?
On June 20 2026 04:26 dyhb wrote: What are the eyewitness reports of underage girls partying with Trump and Epstein
Roger Stone wrote that he was there and saw it.
Also Trump himself. He's on record joking in 2002 about Epstein's habits, his first hand knowledge is evidenced by his own testimony.
Roger Stone, the big Vince Foster conspiracy theory promoter regarding Clinton? And Trump said he went to parties with Epstein and underage girls?
The fuck kinda ancient Greek paradox is dyhb arguing? It's like one step removed from "Someone confessing to a crime makes them a criminal which means their confession is unreliable so it can't be used against them"
If one of your closest allies and confidants was bragging about the dubiously legal sex parties you went to together, that you never actually went to, would you a) immediately exile them from your orbit, or b) continue treating them as your closest ally?
If you recall that paradox is literally the defence Trump used when his criminal fixer lawyer testified against him. Prosecutors were using his testimony on how Trump's criminal operation worked and Trump said that his testimony was unreliable because he was part of a criminal operation and therefore it should be disregarded and therefore there was no criminal operation.
On June 20 2026 04:26 dyhb wrote: What are the eyewitness reports of underage girls partying with Trump and Epstein
Roger Stone wrote that he was there and saw it.
Also Trump himself. He's on record joking in 2002 about Epstein's habits, his first hand knowledge is evidenced by his own testimony.
Roger Stone, the big Vince Foster conspiracy theory promoter regarding Clinton? And Trump said he went to parties with Epstein and underage girls?
The fuck kinda ancient Greek paradox is dyhb arguing? It's like one step removed from "Someone confessing to a crime makes them a criminal which means their confession is unreliable so it can't be used against them"
If one of your closest allies and confidants was bragging about the dubiously legal sex parties you went to together, that you never actually went to, would you a) immediately exile them from your orbit, or b) continue treating them as your closest ally?
If you recall that paradox is literally the defence Trump used when his criminal fixer lawyer testified against him. Prosecutors were using his testimony on how Trump's criminal operation worked and Trump said that his testimony was unreliable because he was part of a criminal operation and therefore it should be disregarded and therefore there was no criminal operation.
And if that logic works for you, let me tell you how he had defeated Iran 55 times and counting and how his master negotiated deal gets Iran 30bn fo talk and Obama shitty skill got Iran 1.7bn for monitoring, and many countries commitment to enforce.
"She begged me to take a picture with her. She wanted a picture with me so badly. I wouldn't have taken it, but I felt sorry for her." Trump talking about the prime minister of Italy.
Can I get a comment on that quote from oblade or another centrist in here ? Is it going to be "It's just Drumpf being Drumpf" or "It's actually a cunning plan to get a better deal at a later time" ?
On June 20 2026 07:05 Geiko wrote: "She begged me to take a picture with her. She wanted a picture with me so badly. I wouldn't have taken it, but I felt sorry for her." Trump talking about the prime minister of Italy.
Can I get a comment on that quote from oblade or another centrist in here ? Is it going to be "It's just Drumpf being Drumpf" or "It's actually a cunning plan to get a better deal at a later time" ?
He commented a few pages ago but it got lost in a dumb argument about whether a pedophile is really a pedophile if you only have his word for it.
On June 20 2026 07:05 Geiko wrote: "She begged me to take a picture with her. She wanted a picture with me so badly. I wouldn't have taken it, but I felt sorry for her." Trump talking about the prime minister of Italy.
Can I get a comment on that quote from oblade or another centrist in here ? Is it going to be "It's just Drumpf being Drumpf" or "It's actually a cunning plan to get a better deal at a later time" ?
He commented a few pages ago but it got lost in a dumb argument about whether a pedophile is really a pedophile if you only have his word for it.
On June 20 2026 06:24 dyhb wrote: If I ask for a source and you give me a source that doesn't include a quote that substantiates your claim, then I'm going to tell you that the source doesn't say that.
So maybe we should start over with the whole providing me a source and making a claim.
You took the interview where she talked about being trafficked to Donald Trump, removed the sentence that said she was trafficked, kept the following sentence where she said that she wasn't assaulted by him, and asserted that your source had no mention of trafficking and you had no idea where I was possibly coming up with this. You had that source, you selectively quoted it at me.
I took a link to an article, with a video up top that says "We apologize, this video has expired" and an article below that says nothing about it. Piecing together from your post, I have to assume that it loads for other people and contains that passage, or that RenSC2 found the real interview from the BBC and not NBC News.
Remember that I'm looking for the evidence behind
On June 20 2026 04:05 KwarK wrote: The parties with Trump, Epstein, and underage girls that we have eyewitness reports of were in Palm Beach. Epstein had multiple pedo party locations.
and
On June 20 2026 04:35 KwarK wrote: Trump definitely had sex with one of Epstein victims.
I didn't find that in your articles, perhaps it was in whatever that video was at the top. I found from RenSC2 (THANK YOU RenSC2) that she felt Ghislaine introduced her to Trump with the intention of her sleeping with Trump, but that Trump didn't behave with any impropriety with her.
So the proof that we have multiple eyewitness reports of Trump & Epstein partying with underage girls in Palm Beach, and Trump having sex with an Epstein victim ... is conspiracist Roger Stone ... and a 20-year old former Epstein victim met Trump through Ghislaine Maxwell and said Trump did not behave with impropriety towards her. Long before public knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes were initially revealed. I'm looking for the evidence, and a 20 year old and Roger Stone aren't multiple eyewitness accounts and underage girls. I always think there's something good out there behind all this run-around you give me, but every time I give you a little rope, it comes back nothing underage and nothing corroborated.
On June 20 2026 04:26 dyhb wrote: What are the eyewitness reports of underage girls partying with Trump and Epstein
Roger Stone wrote that he was there and saw it.
Also Trump himself. He's on record joking in 2002 about Epstein's habits, his first hand knowledge is evidenced by his own testimony.
Roger Stone, the big Vince Foster conspiracy theory promoter regarding Clinton? And Trump said he went to parties with Epstein and underage girls?
The fuck kinda ancient Greek paradox is dyhb arguing? It's like one step removed from "Someone confessing to a crime makes them a criminal which means their confession is unreliable so it can't be used against them"
If one of your closest allies and confidants was bragging about the dubiously legal sex parties you went to together, that you never actually went to, would you a) immediately exile them from your orbit, or b) continue treating them as your closest ally?
I'm looking for a little above that guy that told Infowars that Hillary Clinton covered up the death of Vince Foster, the Clinton's lawyer. I've seen that guy's twitter account. I thought the Alex Jones level was presumed to be a little beneath consideration, but maybe this is the Infowars of Epstein or something.
I think my point about the ridiculous hurdles is more or less proven at this point. Unless I can prove that the source that Maxwell paper used for the Maxwell article about Maxwell was someone connected to Maxwell he’s not accepting shit, even though Anouska corroborates it.
You have a lot of confidence in unsigned gossip columns, but I'm afraid that it isn't contagious. You can't even say the name of the person who might suffer embarrassment if their rumor was off the mark! But I did have a pleasurable time looking around to see if anybody had mentioned it or recorded it anywhere else.
And no hard feelings if there's a smoking gun next time around.
On June 20 2026 09:08 dyhb wrote: You have a lot of confidence in unsigned gossip columns, but I'm afraid that it isn't contagious. You can't even say the name of the person who might suffer embarrassment if their rumor was off the mark! But I did have a pleasurable time looking around to see if anybody had mentioned it or recorded it anywhere else.
And no hard feelings if there's a smoking gun next time around.
It is proven by his own words that he is a a super fucking creep, in many ways.
And I find it odd that you are fine with the president of the US having this much smoke around being a full blown rapist of teens. He’d have trouble getting hired to sell life Insurance, but the Christian right is like, sure you’ve done a ton of ultra creepy shit, best friends with a guy a teen fucking organization, so on and so. Ya that’s the guy we want to represent our values and country on the world stage.
Cause let’s be real no one picked him for his brains, world knowledge or negotiating ability.
On November 18 2025 05:57 KwarK wrote: There is also this 1997 newspaper article that describes Anouska De Georgiou, one of Epstein's underage rape victims, being set up with Trump by their mutual friend, Ghislaine Maxwell.
After their meeting, Trump flew Madam Maxwell and the model south to the sunshine state, where all three enjoyed a happy weekend together. When they returned to New York, Anouska was installed in one of Donald's many apartments there.
Now it's possible that we can't trust the source behind the newspaper article. The Sunday Mirror is a bit of a gossip rag, we don't necessarily know who they heard it from. The newspaper is printing stories about Ghislaine Maxwell but we don't know if they researched those stories or spoke to anyone close to Ghislaine. We might guess based on the fact that the Sunday Mirror was owned by Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine Maxwell, but I guess we can't know.
Trump definitely had sex with one of Epstein victims. Though Anouska was over 18 by the time Ghislaine "installed" her in Trump's apartment.
The point about "why not defend Epstein while you're at it" is that the burden demanded by Trump apologists for a man who openly brags about being attracted to minors is so absurd that they might as well. It's not good faith. It is insisting that we suspend any and all ability to extrapolate from what we can see and what he tells us. If you're going to do that then do it properly. Otherwise quit pretending that you can't see what we see.
This story again? You do realise that you base your claim that Trump is paedophile on the fact that he had (as alleged by you) sex with adult?
On June 20 2026 04:26 dyhb wrote: What are the eyewitness reports of underage girls partying with Trump and Epstein
Roger Stone wrote that he was there and saw it.
Also Trump himself. He's on record joking in 2002 about Epstein's habits, his first hand knowledge is evidenced by his own testimony.
On November 18 2025 05:57 KwarK wrote: There is also this 1997 newspaper article that describes Anouska De Georgiou, one of Epstein's underage rape victims, being set up with Trump by their mutual friend, Ghislaine Maxwell.
After their meeting, Trump flew Madam Maxwell and the model south to the sunshine state, where all three enjoyed a happy weekend together. When they returned to New York, Anouska was installed in one of Donald's many apartments there.
Now it's possible that we can't trust the source behind the newspaper article. The Sunday Mirror is a bit of a gossip rag, we don't necessarily know who they heard it from. The newspaper is printing stories about Ghislaine Maxwell but we don't know if they researched those stories or spoke to anyone close to Ghislaine. We might guess based on the fact that the Sunday Mirror was owned by Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine Maxwell, but I guess we can't know.
Trump definitely had sex with one of Epstein victims. Though Anouska was over 18 by the time Ghislaine "installed" her in Trump's apartment.
The point about "why not defend Epstein while you're at it" is that the burden demanded by Trump apologists for a man who openly brags about being attracted to minors is so absurd that they might as well. It's not good faith. It is insisting that we suspend any and all ability to extrapolate from what we can see and what he tells us. If you're going to do that then do it properly. Otherwise quit pretending that you can't see what we see.
This story again? You do realise that you base your claim that Trump is paedophile on the fact that he had (as alleged by you) sex with adult?
That's not what I'm basing it on.
But if people are going to insist that Trump barely knew Epstein/Ghislaine then the fact that Epstein trafficking victims are on record as having also been subsequently trafficked to Trump after they were 18 is absolutely relevant.
If I'm accused of robbing a bank as part of a crew and I insist that I've never even been to that city, let alone that specific bank, then the footage of me in the bank with that crew is relevant, even if it was recorded 3 days before the robbery.
On June 20 2026 04:26 dyhb wrote: What are the eyewitness reports of underage girls partying with Trump and Epstein
Roger Stone wrote that he was there and saw it.
Also Trump himself. He's on record joking in 2002 about Epstein's habits, his first hand knowledge is evidenced by his own testimony.
On November 18 2025 05:57 KwarK wrote: There is also this 1997 newspaper article that describes Anouska De Georgiou, one of Epstein's underage rape victims, being set up with Trump by their mutual friend, Ghislaine Maxwell.
After their meeting, Trump flew Madam Maxwell and the model south to the sunshine state, where all three enjoyed a happy weekend together. When they returned to New York, Anouska was installed in one of Donald's many apartments there.
Now it's possible that we can't trust the source behind the newspaper article. The Sunday Mirror is a bit of a gossip rag, we don't necessarily know who they heard it from. The newspaper is printing stories about Ghislaine Maxwell but we don't know if they researched those stories or spoke to anyone close to Ghislaine. We might guess based on the fact that the Sunday Mirror was owned by Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine Maxwell, but I guess we can't know.
Trump definitely had sex with one of Epstein victims. Though Anouska was over 18 by the time Ghislaine "installed" her in Trump's apartment.
The point about "why not defend Epstein while you're at it" is that the burden demanded by Trump apologists for a man who openly brags about being attracted to minors is so absurd that they might as well. It's not good faith. It is insisting that we suspend any and all ability to extrapolate from what we can see and what he tells us. If you're going to do that then do it properly. Otherwise quit pretending that you can't see what we see.
This story again? You do realise that you base your claim that Trump is paedophile on the fact that he had (as alleged by you) sex with adult?
EPT
