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United States44246 Posts
On June 19 2026 19:57 EnDeR_ wrote:Who could have possibly seen this coming? www.theguardian.comShow nested quote +US-Iran talks abruptly called off after Israel and Hezbollah trade deadly attacks
JD Vance’s staff were at an airbase ready to fly to summit in Obbürgen before trip was suddenly cancelled
Talks due to take place on Friday between the US and Iran in Switzerland to implement a peace deal were cancelled as Hezbollah killed four Israeli soldiers and Israel carried out a wave of retaliatory airstrikes in south Lebanon and the Bekaa valley that killed at least 18 people.
The talks had been due to begin in the Swiss village of Obbürgen two days after the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) that opened a 60-day window to negotiate a permanent understanding over Iran’s nuclear programme, while getting oil traffic moving through the strait of Hormuz.
Iran holding out for the Statue of Liberty.
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On June 19 2026 22:17 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 16:14 Falling wrote:
I really don't understand what you are going on about. Yes, of course they were the men running to become president.
Correct me if I was wrong, but it seemed to me the way you were framing things is that Republicans had tried playing nice by putting up McCain and Romney. They failed and so they felt they needed someone nasty like Trump instead.
My contention is that they were not playing nice at all. Underneath McCain and Romney was a base of supporters who were a boiling cauldron of nasty media and conspiratorial voters. You said those were just randos and creating uneven scales. I don't agree. There was serious momentum behind the birther movement. And the number 1 cable news without many rivals in the alternative media space (Breitbart who were more unhinged) is anything but randos. It goes to intent.
Because I don't think there was any intentionality in 'trying to be nice' by putting up McCain or Romney. Post-Bush and without his VP running, it was pretty wide open. McCain got less than half of the popular primary vote. And given how weak Bush's popularity was, someone who was NOT Bush or associated with his administration was likely to take it. McCain fits that.
I'm sure McCain made lots of mistakes but I think they are mostly irrelevant. Do you really think a Republican had a snowball's chance in hell to win post-Bush post-Iraq (and I forgot about this- the 2008 financial crisis?) No matter who the Democrats put up, it was theirs to lose.
As for 2012. Again, I don't really see intentionality in 'trying to be nice'. It honestly looks like an off year. At least in Canadian politics, certain election cycles the big guns sit out of the leadership race for opposition because the incumbent is too likely to win. (Although if you are good enough, you risk it and win the presumed loss anyways like Carney with a little help from your neighbour threatening some good old fashion annexation.) I’m speaking just on their choices of campaigning. I’m not getting involved in other topics that you are clearly very passionate about. Show nested quote +What were the choices?
Romney 2.0
Santorum?
Ron Paul 2.0
Newt Gingrich? meh
I guess you had Rick Perry but he was drawing dead early on. Romney was really the only credible option and he got over 50% of the votes. But even primary voting is down 23M 2008 and 18M 2012. Alternative or supplemental interpretation: it's a little like 2016 for the Democrats. Too many potential contenders felt Clinton (Romney) would have too great an advantage and decided to not even bother... except some quirky, fringe ideologues that decided to fight it out (Sanders/ Paul). But that ended up with not many options for the voters... and a bunch of disillusioned Paul/Sanders fans.
But once Obama is on his way out, boy howdy, everybody came out to play. And Santorum who was one of Romney's main challengers in 2012 is completely lost in the mix. 2016 had a much deeper line up than 2012. And you see it in the votes: 29M in primaries. Republicans saw this as the time to take back the presidency and showed up in numbers. I don’t see the relevance in a slapdash analysis of the other candidates for office. You’re getting out the effort that you’re putting in.
How is your analysis on why Trump got elected any different than those that say McCain lost for being against racism and Trump leaning into it?
It feels like you have made a presumption and just decided it true.
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On June 19 2026 21:20 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 19:57 EnDeR_ wrote:Who could have possibly seen this coming? www.theguardian.comUS-Iran talks abruptly called off after Israel and Hezbollah trade deadly attacks
JD Vance’s staff were at an airbase ready to fly to summit in Obbürgen before trip was suddenly cancelled
Talks due to take place on Friday between the US and Iran in Switzerland to implement a peace deal were cancelled as Hezbollah killed four Israeli soldiers and Israel carried out a wave of retaliatory airstrikes in south Lebanon and the Bekaa valley that killed at least 18 people.
The talks had been due to begin in the Swiss village of Obbürgen two days after the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) that opened a 60-day window to negotiate a permanent understanding over Iran’s nuclear programme, while getting oil traffic moving through the strait of Hormuz.
It’s like Iran is big dogging this. Anytime they want to start it they just order Hezbollah to attack and Israel almost on command goes back to bombing. And before anyone pretends it’s not Iran, there have been over a dozen confirmed irgc and quds killed in Lebanon since the start of this one. Not to mention Lebanons leader Joe just openly saying it. Show nested quote +On June 09 2026 09:59 Billyboy wrote:
Iran is really dictating this conflict. What I mean by that is they can start it anytime they want by having Hezbollah just fire a rocket at Israel, the Israel 100% escalates and Trump then has too tell them to stop, and they have but after a few strikes. And it continually makes Trump look bad because they do it after he announces how close they are.
The only one who seems to notice is Lebanons leader who has told Iran it’s not their country but Iran doesn’t care. The whole region would be better off if Israel and Iran just actually fought each other instead of proxy wars.
Does it really matter who started it *this time*? Until Israel decides they want peace, there is nothing the US can do about it.
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On June 19 2026 20:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 19:57 EnDeR_ wrote:Who could have possibly seen this coming? www.theguardian.comUS-Iran talks abruptly called off after Israel and Hezbollah trade deadly attacks
JD Vance’s staff were at an airbase ready to fly to summit in Obbürgen before trip was suddenly cancelled
Talks due to take place on Friday between the US and Iran in Switzerland to implement a peace deal were cancelled as Hezbollah killed four Israeli soldiers and Israel carried out a wave of retaliatory airstrikes in south Lebanon and the Bekaa valley that killed at least 18 people.
The talks had been due to begin in the Swiss village of Obbürgen two days after the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) that opened a 60-day window to negotiate a permanent understanding over Iran’s nuclear programme, while getting oil traffic moving through the strait of Hormuz.
I, for one, am astonished that Trump's war with Iran hasn't yet perfectly concluded! From your source: "The cancellation of the talks came as Israel and Hezbollah traded their most violent strikes since the ceasefire was established. Hezbollah targeted Israeli forces near the city of Nabatieh, in south Lebanon, with several salvoes of rocket fire and drones overnight after intermittent Israeli shelling throughout Thursday. Israel responded with a wave of airstrikes on the city and surrounding towns on what it said were Hezbollah targets, leaving at least 18 people dead and 33 wounded, according to Lebanon’s ministry of health." So just to get the timeline right: Israel attacked first (on Thursday), then Hezbollah retaliated, then Israel attacked again? Do I have that order correct, where Israel started this most recent back-and-forth?
That's my interpretation of the words I'm reading as well.
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On June 19 2026 22:53 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 21:20 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2026 19:57 EnDeR_ wrote:Who could have possibly seen this coming? www.theguardian.comUS-Iran talks abruptly called off after Israel and Hezbollah trade deadly attacks
JD Vance’s staff were at an airbase ready to fly to summit in Obbürgen before trip was suddenly cancelled
Talks due to take place on Friday between the US and Iran in Switzerland to implement a peace deal were cancelled as Hezbollah killed four Israeli soldiers and Israel carried out a wave of retaliatory airstrikes in south Lebanon and the Bekaa valley that killed at least 18 people.
The talks had been due to begin in the Swiss village of Obbürgen two days after the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) that opened a 60-day window to negotiate a permanent understanding over Iran’s nuclear programme, while getting oil traffic moving through the strait of Hormuz.
It’s like Iran is big dogging this. Anytime they want to start it they just order Hezbollah to attack and Israel almost on command goes back to bombing. And before anyone pretends it’s not Iran, there have been over a dozen confirmed irgc and quds killed in Lebanon since the start of this one. Not to mention Lebanons leader Joe just openly saying it. On June 09 2026 09:59 Billyboy wrote:
Iran is really dictating this conflict. What I mean by that is they can start it anytime they want by having Hezbollah just fire a rocket at Israel, the Israel 100% escalates and Trump then has too tell them to stop, and they have but after a few strikes. And it continually makes Trump look bad because they do it after he announces how close they are.
The only one who seems to notice is Lebanons leader who has told Iran it’s not their country but Iran doesn’t care. The whole region would be better off if Israel and Iran just actually fought each other instead of proxy wars. Does it really matter who started it *this time*? Until Israel decides they want peace, there is nothing the US can do about it.
Until Iran wants peace there is nothing the US can do about it. Iran just killed 4 Israeli soldiers of course they are going to bomb them.
This is the power of having a proxy and people love to pretend it’s not Iran no matter how
many Iranian commanders die in Lebanon.
The Lebanese are not pretending that Hezbollah is anything but an Iranian controlled proxy army, not sure why we should. I get that it is cool to blame the US and Israel for anything, but if you want real intelligent discussion you have to include that Iran is actually horrible and wants a destabilized Middle East.
https://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/318937-geagea-hezbollah-an-iranian-faction-iran-playing-its-last-card?
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A Democratic Socialist has jumped ahead of a Democrat that's been in office since the challenger was born.
A Democratic socialist born in 1997 is threatening to unseat a veteran Democrat who first took office in 1997.
In Colorado’s first congressional district, 29-year-old Melat Kiros leads corporate-backed 30-year incumbent Diana DeGette by five points, according to a new poll.
The survey, by Data for Progress, finds Kiros leading DeGette 41% to 36%. The poll was conducted on behalf of Justice Democrats, a progressive super PAC backing Kiros’s campaign, and the American Priorities PAC.
The poll comes as outside cash floods into the Denver race. Super PACs linked to the real estate lobby, the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, and the Democratic establishment – and some that have seemed to emerge out of nowhere – have all descended into the race in support of DeGette, and against Kiros.
The race echoes dynamics playing out in Democratic primaries across the country: a progressive challenger, channeling pent-up voter frustration at the old-guard, pitching a momentous bid against an incumbent or party-friendly candidate.
zeteo.com
It'll be interesting to see how establishment Democrats handle this increasing trend of voters recognizing them as oppositional to their own ostensible ideals.
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On June 19 2026 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:A Democratic Socialist has jumped ahead of a Democrat that's been in office since the challenger was born. Show nested quote +A Democratic socialist born in 1997 is threatening to unseat a veteran Democrat who first took office in 1997.
In Colorado’s first congressional district, 29-year-old Melat Kiros leads corporate-backed 30-year incumbent Diana DeGette by five points, according to a new poll.
The survey, by Data for Progress, finds Kiros leading DeGette 41% to 36%. The poll was conducted on behalf of Justice Democrats, a progressive super PAC backing Kiros’s campaign, and the American Priorities PAC.
The poll comes as outside cash floods into the Denver race. Super PACs linked to the real estate lobby, the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, and the Democratic establishment – and some that have seemed to emerge out of nowhere – have all descended into the race in support of DeGette, and against Kiros.
The race echoes dynamics playing out in Democratic primaries across the country: a progressive challenger, channeling pent-up voter frustration at the old-guard, pitching a momentous bid against an incumbent or party-friendly candidate. zeteo.comIt'll be interesting to see how establishment Democrats handle this increasing trend of voters recognizing them as oppositional to their own ostensible ideals.
Likely the same as Mamdani.
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On June 19 2026 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:A Democratic Socialist has jumped ahead of a Democrat that's been in office since the challenger was born. Show nested quote +A Democratic socialist born in 1997 is threatening to unseat a veteran Democrat who first took office in 1997.
In Colorado’s first congressional district, 29-year-old Melat Kiros leads corporate-backed 30-year incumbent Diana DeGette by five points, according to a new poll.
The survey, by Data for Progress, finds Kiros leading DeGette 41% to 36%. The poll was conducted on behalf of Justice Democrats, a progressive super PAC backing Kiros’s campaign, and the American Priorities PAC.
The poll comes as outside cash floods into the Denver race. Super PACs linked to the real estate lobby, the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, and the Democratic establishment – and some that have seemed to emerge out of nowhere – have all descended into the race in support of DeGette, and against Kiros.
The race echoes dynamics playing out in Democratic primaries across the country: a progressive challenger, channeling pent-up voter frustration at the old-guard, pitching a momentous bid against an incumbent or party-friendly candidate. zeteo.comIt'll be interesting to see how establishment Democrats handle this increasing trend of voters recognizing them as oppositional to their own ostensible ideals.
As an example: You got Newsom (top contender for the 2028 nomination) fighting AGAINST a billionaires tax.
California voters are poised to vote on a one-time billionaire tax that would fund schools, food assistance, and Medicaid. Silicon Valley is spending big to keep the precedent-setting initiative off the November ballot, but the campaign's most powerful opponent isn’t a tech oligarch — it’s California Gov. Gavin Newsom, the Democratic power broker and potential presidential candidate.
https://www.levernews.com/why-is-newsom-fighting-californias-billionaire-tax/
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On June 19 2026 20:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 19:57 EnDeR_ wrote:Who could have possibly seen this coming? www.theguardian.comUS-Iran talks abruptly called off after Israel and Hezbollah trade deadly attacks
JD Vance’s staff were at an airbase ready to fly to summit in Obbürgen before trip was suddenly cancelled
Talks due to take place on Friday between the US and Iran in Switzerland to implement a peace deal were cancelled as Hezbollah killed four Israeli soldiers and Israel carried out a wave of retaliatory airstrikes in south Lebanon and the Bekaa valley that killed at least 18 people.
The talks had been due to begin in the Swiss village of Obbürgen two days after the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) that opened a 60-day window to negotiate a permanent understanding over Iran’s nuclear programme, while getting oil traffic moving through the strait of Hormuz.
I, for one, am astonished that Trump's war with Iran hasn't yet perfectly concluded! From your source: "The cancellation of the talks came as Israel and Hezbollah traded their most violent strikes since the ceasefire was established. Hezbollah targeted Israeli forces near the city of Nabatieh, in south Lebanon, with several salvoes of rocket fire and drones overnight after intermittent Israeli shelling throughout Thursday. Israel responded with a wave of airstrikes on the city and surrounding towns on what it said were Hezbollah targets, leaving at least 18 people dead and 33 wounded, according to Lebanon’s ministry of health." So just to get the timeline right: Israel attacked first (on Thursday), then Hezbollah retaliated, then Israel attacked again? Do I have that order correct, where Israel started this most recent back-and-forth?
Correct. To be honest, to noone's surprise since Netanyanhu has already declared he is not withdrawing from Lebanon.
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United States44246 Posts
On June 19 2026 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:A Democratic Socialist has jumped ahead of a Democrat that's been in office since the challenger was born. Show nested quote +A Democratic socialist born in 1997 is threatening to unseat a veteran Democrat who first took office in 1997.
In Colorado’s first congressional district, 29-year-old Melat Kiros leads corporate-backed 30-year incumbent Diana DeGette by five points, according to a new poll.
The survey, by Data for Progress, finds Kiros leading DeGette 41% to 36%. The poll was conducted on behalf of Justice Democrats, a progressive super PAC backing Kiros’s campaign, and the American Priorities PAC.
The poll comes as outside cash floods into the Denver race. Super PACs linked to the real estate lobby, the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, and the Democratic establishment – and some that have seemed to emerge out of nowhere – have all descended into the race in support of DeGette, and against Kiros.
The race echoes dynamics playing out in Democratic primaries across the country: a progressive challenger, channeling pent-up voter frustration at the old-guard, pitching a momentous bid against an incumbent or party-friendly candidate. zeteo.comIt'll be interesting to see how establishment Democrats handle this increasing trend of voters recognizing them as oppositional to their own ostensible ideals.
Sounds like you’re pushing a reformist narrative where non performing elected officials can be challenged within existing party structures. The problem with this kind of reformist narrative is that it excuses inaction, it turns waiting for change into a virtue.
When direct action is required to destroy the hostile power structures there are always voices crying out “why not simply reform them gradually over time”. But in practice it’s simply another voice calling for the status quo, you’re either a revolutionary or you’re a counterrevolutionary. This is a classic example of reformist propaganda. If you think about it the people trying to make things better within the system are the worst of all, they know how bad the system is and they’re choosing to co opt and undermine the opposition to that system and turn it into just another layer of control.
For that reason I regret to inform you that you were directly and personally involved in genocide (unspecified).
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On June 20 2026 00:09 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:A Democratic Socialist has jumped ahead of a Democrat that's been in office since the challenger was born. A Democratic socialist born in 1997 is threatening to unseat a veteran Democrat who first took office in 1997.
In Colorado’s first congressional district, 29-year-old Melat Kiros leads corporate-backed 30-year incumbent Diana DeGette by five points, according to a new poll.
The survey, by Data for Progress, finds Kiros leading DeGette 41% to 36%. The poll was conducted on behalf of Justice Democrats, a progressive super PAC backing Kiros’s campaign, and the American Priorities PAC.
The poll comes as outside cash floods into the Denver race. Super PACs linked to the real estate lobby, the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, and the Democratic establishment – and some that have seemed to emerge out of nowhere – have all descended into the race in support of DeGette, and against Kiros.
The race echoes dynamics playing out in Democratic primaries across the country: a progressive challenger, channeling pent-up voter frustration at the old-guard, pitching a momentous bid against an incumbent or party-friendly candidate. zeteo.comIt'll be interesting to see how establishment Democrats handle this increasing trend of voters recognizing them as oppositional to their own ostensible ideals. Sounds like you’re pushing a reformist narrative where non performing elected officials can be challenged within existing party structures. The problem with this kind of reformist narrative is that it excuses inaction, it turns waiting for change into a virtue. When direct action is required to destroy the hostile power structures there are always voices crying out “why not simply reform them gradually over time”. But in practice it’s simply another voice calling for the status quo, you’re either a revolutionary or you’re a counterrevolutionary. This is a classic example of reformist propaganda. If you think about it the people trying to make things better within the system are the worst of all, they know how bad the system is and they’re choosing to co opt and undermine the opposition to that system and turn it into just another layer of control. For that reason I regret to inform you that you were directly and personally involved in genocide (unspecified).
But for a world where you actually believed and vociferously argued this with others here. The thread would be a lot more interesting, that's for sure.
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So Trump going around saying Meloni begged him for a picture, leading the Italian foreign affairs minister to cancel an official visit.
American diplomacy used to be an iphone, now it’s two rusty cans and a string.
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On June 19 2026 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:A Democratic Socialist has jumped ahead of a Democrat that's been in office since the challenger was born. Show nested quote +A Democratic socialist born in 1997 is threatening to unseat a veteran Democrat who first took office in 1997.
In Colorado’s first congressional district, 29-year-old Melat Kiros leads corporate-backed 30-year incumbent Diana DeGette by five points, according to a new poll.
The survey, by Data for Progress, finds Kiros leading DeGette 41% to 36%. The poll was conducted on behalf of Justice Democrats, a progressive super PAC backing Kiros’s campaign, and the American Priorities PAC.
The poll comes as outside cash floods into the Denver race. Super PACs linked to the real estate lobby, the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, and the Democratic establishment – and some that have seemed to emerge out of nowhere – have all descended into the race in support of DeGette, and against Kiros.
The race echoes dynamics playing out in Democratic primaries across the country: a progressive challenger, channeling pent-up voter frustration at the old-guard, pitching a momentous bid against an incumbent or party-friendly candidate. zeteo.comIt'll be interesting to see how establishment Democrats handle this increasing trend of voters recognizing them as oppositional to their own ostensible ideals.
I hope that Kiros pulls off the upset!
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United States44246 Posts
On June 20 2026 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2026 00:09 KwarK wrote:On June 19 2026 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:A Democratic Socialist has jumped ahead of a Democrat that's been in office since the challenger was born. A Democratic socialist born in 1997 is threatening to unseat a veteran Democrat who first took office in 1997.
In Colorado’s first congressional district, 29-year-old Melat Kiros leads corporate-backed 30-year incumbent Diana DeGette by five points, according to a new poll.
The survey, by Data for Progress, finds Kiros leading DeGette 41% to 36%. The poll was conducted on behalf of Justice Democrats, a progressive super PAC backing Kiros’s campaign, and the American Priorities PAC.
The poll comes as outside cash floods into the Denver race. Super PACs linked to the real estate lobby, the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, and the Democratic establishment – and some that have seemed to emerge out of nowhere – have all descended into the race in support of DeGette, and against Kiros.
The race echoes dynamics playing out in Democratic primaries across the country: a progressive challenger, channeling pent-up voter frustration at the old-guard, pitching a momentous bid against an incumbent or party-friendly candidate. zeteo.comIt'll be interesting to see how establishment Democrats handle this increasing trend of voters recognizing them as oppositional to their own ostensible ideals. Sounds like you’re pushing a reformist narrative where non performing elected officials can be challenged within existing party structures. The problem with this kind of reformist narrative is that it excuses inaction, it turns waiting for change into a virtue. When direct action is required to destroy the hostile power structures there are always voices crying out “why not simply reform them gradually over time”. But in practice it’s simply another voice calling for the status quo, you’re either a revolutionary or you’re a counterrevolutionary. This is a classic example of reformist propaganda. If you think about it the people trying to make things better within the system are the worst of all, they know how bad the system is and they’re choosing to co opt and undermine the opposition to that system and turn it into just another layer of control. For that reason I regret to inform you that you were directly and personally involved in genocide (unspecified). But for a world where you actually believed and vociferously argued this with others here. The thread would be a lot more interesting, that's for sure.
What a lot of people don't understand is that people trying to make things better are the enemy because by trying to make things better within a broken system they're just propping up that system and allowing it to harm even more people. That is why I reserve all my criticism for helpers and never criticize bad actors, like Ronald Reagan. By which I mean I, like Reagan (great actor btw), reserve all my criticism for helpers.
I'm glad you think that this kind of contribution makes the thread more interesting though. There was a risk of there being an actual discussion of Kiros and her policies vs the incumbent and I didn't want to allow that. Not when there was a high horse with nobody riding it and genocide taking place.
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On June 20 2026 00:36 Biff The Understudy wrote:
So Trump going around saying Meloni begged him for a picture, leading the Italian foreign affairs minister to cancel an official visit.
American diplomacy used to be an iphone, now it’s two rusty cans and a string.
When the only European who showed up to your inauguration now hates you, you know you have lots of skill.
In his defence who could have predicted that insulting the pope and then personally insulting the leader would not go over well in Italy. Almost as shocking as Iran closing the strait.
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Canada11594 Posts
On June 19 2026 22:17 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 16:14 Falling wrote:
I really don't understand what you are going on about. Yes, of course they were the men running to become president.
Correct me if I was wrong, but it seemed to me the way you were framing things is that Republicans had tried playing nice by putting up McCain and Romney. They failed and so they felt they needed someone nasty like Trump instead.
My contention is that they were not playing nice at all. Underneath McCain and Romney was a base of supporters who were a boiling cauldron of nasty media and conspiratorial voters. You said those were just randos and creating uneven scales. I don't agree. There was serious momentum behind the birther movement. And the number 1 cable news without many rivals in the alternative media space (Breitbart who were more unhinged) is anything but randos. It goes to intent.
Because I don't think there was any intentionality in 'trying to be nice' by putting up McCain or Romney. Post-Bush and without his VP running, it was pretty wide open. McCain got less than half of the popular primary vote. And given how weak Bush's popularity was, someone who was NOT Bush or associated with his administration was likely to take it. McCain fits that.
I'm sure McCain made lots of mistakes but I think they are mostly irrelevant. Do you really think a Republican had a snowball's chance in hell to win post-Bush post-Iraq (and I forgot about this- the 2008 financial crisis?) No matter who the Democrats put up, it was theirs to lose.
As for 2012. Again, I don't really see intentionality in 'trying to be nice'. It honestly looks like an off year. At least in Canadian politics, certain election cycles the big guns sit out of the leadership race for opposition because the incumbent is too likely to win. (Although if you are good enough, you risk it and win the presumed loss anyways like Carney with a little help from your neighbour threatening some good old fashion annexation.) I’m speaking just on their choices of campaigning. I’m not getting involved in other topics that you are clearly very passionate about. Show nested quote +What were the choices?
Romney 2.0
Santorum?
Ron Paul 2.0
Newt Gingrich? meh
I guess you had Rick Perry but he was drawing dead early on. Romney was really the only credible option and he got over 50% of the votes. But even primary voting is down 23M 2008 and 18M 2012. Alternative or supplemental interpretation: it's a little like 2016 for the Democrats. Too many potential contenders felt Clinton (Romney) would have too great an advantage and decided to not even bother... except some quirky, fringe ideologues that decided to fight it out (Sanders/ Paul). But that ended up with not many options for the voters... and a bunch of disillusioned Paul/Sanders fans.
But once Obama is on his way out, boy howdy, everybody came out to play. And Santorum who was one of Romney's main challengers in 2012 is completely lost in the mix. 2016 had a much deeper line up than 2012. And you see it in the votes: 29M in primaries. Republicans saw this as the time to take back the presidency and showed up in numbers. I don’t see the relevance in a slapdash analysis of the other candidates for office. You’re getting out the effort that you’re putting in.
lol. Why bother quoting my blocks of texts when you could have just wrote 'Nope.'
Quite frankly, it looks like I wasted my time as you aren't putting in any effort at all.
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On June 20 2026 00:52 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2026 00:36 Biff The Understudy wrote:
So Trump going around saying Meloni begged him for a picture, leading the Italian foreign affairs minister to cancel an official visit.
American diplomacy used to be an iphone, now it’s two rusty cans and a string. When the only European who showed up to your inauguration now hates you, you know you have lots of skill. In his defence who could have predicted that insulting the pope and then personally insulting the leader would not go over well in Italy. Almost as shocking as Iran closing the strait.
It was truly an unforced error of monumental proportions when Trump suddenly and apropos of nothing in particular insulted the Pope (a literal American) who had been doing nothing but minding his own business, for no reason whatsoever.
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On June 19 2026 23:36 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 22:53 EnDeR_ wrote:On June 19 2026 21:20 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2026 19:57 EnDeR_ wrote:Who could have possibly seen this coming? www.theguardian.comUS-Iran talks abruptly called off after Israel and Hezbollah trade deadly attacks
JD Vance’s staff were at an airbase ready to fly to summit in Obbürgen before trip was suddenly cancelled
Talks due to take place on Friday between the US and Iran in Switzerland to implement a peace deal were cancelled as Hezbollah killed four Israeli soldiers and Israel carried out a wave of retaliatory airstrikes in south Lebanon and the Bekaa valley that killed at least 18 people.
The talks had been due to begin in the Swiss village of Obbürgen two days after the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) that opened a 60-day window to negotiate a permanent understanding over Iran’s nuclear programme, while getting oil traffic moving through the strait of Hormuz.
It’s like Iran is big dogging this. Anytime they want to start it they just order Hezbollah to attack and Israel almost on command goes back to bombing. And before anyone pretends it’s not Iran, there have been over a dozen confirmed irgc and quds killed in Lebanon since the start of this one. Not to mention Lebanons leader Joe just openly saying it. On June 09 2026 09:59 Billyboy wrote:
Iran is really dictating this conflict. What I mean by that is they can start it anytime they want by having Hezbollah just fire a rocket at Israel, the Israel 100% escalates and Trump then has too tell them to stop, and they have but after a few strikes. And it continually makes Trump look bad because they do it after he announces how close they are.
The only one who seems to notice is Lebanons leader who has told Iran it’s not their country but Iran doesn’t care. The whole region would be better off if Israel and Iran just actually fought each other instead of proxy wars. Does it really matter who started it *this time*? Until Israel decides they want peace, there is nothing the US can do about it. Until Iran wants peace there is nothing the US can do about it. Iran just killed 4 Israeli soldiers of course they are going to bomb them. This is the power of having a proxy and people love to pretend it’s not Iran no matter how many Iranian commanders die in Lebanon. The Lebanese are not pretending that Hezbollah is anything but an Iranian controlled proxy army, not sure why we should. I get that it is cool to blame the US and Israel for anything, but if you want real intelligent discussion you have to include that Iran is actually horrible and wants a destabilized Middle East. https://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/318937-geagea-hezbollah-an-iranian-faction-iran-playing-its-last-card?
Turn this one around. What's the downside for Iran to keep poking Israel? Their hand gets stronger the longer this keeps going. Sure, they're terrible, like, that's not new. Trump is the only one with a deadline, his credibility is on the line.
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United States44246 Posts
On June 20 2026 01:09 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2026 00:52 Billyboy wrote:On June 20 2026 00:36 Biff The Understudy wrote:
So Trump going around saying Meloni begged him for a picture, leading the Italian foreign affairs minister to cancel an official visit.
American diplomacy used to be an iphone, now it’s two rusty cans and a string. When the only European who showed up to your inauguration now hates you, you know you have lots of skill. In his defence who could have predicted that insulting the pope and then personally insulting the leader would not go over well in Italy. Almost as shocking as Iran closing the strait. It was truly an unforced error of monumental proportions when Trump suddenly and apropos of nothing in particular insulted the Pope (a literal American) who had been doing nothing but minding his own business, for no reason whatsoever.
The Pope who, on day 1, Trump said was only selected Pope because of Trump? The one who had the nerve to weigh in on moral issues? That Pope?
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On June 20 2026 01:11 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2026 23:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2026 22:53 EnDeR_ wrote:On June 19 2026 21:20 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2026 19:57 EnDeR_ wrote:Who could have possibly seen this coming? www.theguardian.comUS-Iran talks abruptly called off after Israel and Hezbollah trade deadly attacks
JD Vance’s staff were at an airbase ready to fly to summit in Obbürgen before trip was suddenly cancelled
Talks due to take place on Friday between the US and Iran in Switzerland to implement a peace deal were cancelled as Hezbollah killed four Israeli soldiers and Israel carried out a wave of retaliatory airstrikes in south Lebanon and the Bekaa valley that killed at least 18 people.
The talks had been due to begin in the Swiss village of Obbürgen two days after the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) that opened a 60-day window to negotiate a permanent understanding over Iran’s nuclear programme, while getting oil traffic moving through the strait of Hormuz.
It’s like Iran is big dogging this. Anytime they want to start it they just order Hezbollah to attack and Israel almost on command goes back to bombing. And before anyone pretends it’s not Iran, there have been over a dozen confirmed irgc and quds killed in Lebanon since the start of this one. Not to mention Lebanons leader Joe just openly saying it. On June 09 2026 09:59 Billyboy wrote:
Iran is really dictating this conflict. What I mean by that is they can start it anytime they want by having Hezbollah just fire a rocket at Israel, the Israel 100% escalates and Trump then has too tell them to stop, and they have but after a few strikes. And it continually makes Trump look bad because they do it after he announces how close they are.
The only one who seems to notice is Lebanons leader who has told Iran it’s not their country but Iran doesn’t care. The whole region would be better off if Israel and Iran just actually fought each other instead of proxy wars. Does it really matter who started it *this time*? Until Israel decides they want peace, there is nothing the US can do about it. Until Iran wants peace there is nothing the US can do about it. Iran just killed 4 Israeli soldiers of course they are going to bomb them. This is the power of having a proxy and people love to pretend it’s not Iran no matter how many Iranian commanders die in Lebanon. The Lebanese are not pretending that Hezbollah is anything but an Iranian controlled proxy army, not sure why we should. I get that it is cool to blame the US and Israel for anything, but if you want real intelligent discussion you have to include that Iran is actually horrible and wants a destabilized Middle East. https://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/318937-geagea-hezbollah-an-iranian-faction-iran-playing-its-last-card? Turn this one around. What's the downside for Iran to keep poking Israel? Their hand gets stronger the longer this keeps going. Sure, they're terrible, like, that's not new. Trump is the only one with a deadline, his credibility is on the line.
Go a day or less before the shelling and you find a rocket, before that something else Israel did, before that Hezbollah and so on and so on.
Yes Iran has every incentive to continue and Israel has every incentive to not have a proxy army whose whole mission is to kill them all on its doorstep. That they are not complying with a ceasefire that they never agreed too and didn’t participate in and does nothing for them is the least surprising thing that could happen.
As stated earlier if the US was a serious country and had actually won, a disarmament and removal of Iran from Lebanon as well as a Israel withdrawal from Lebanon would be an actual win and shot at peace.
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EPT
