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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On June 17 2026 23:25 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2026 21:23 oBlade wrote:On June 17 2026 17:38 Gorsameth wrote:
Had a dumb thought, assume the deal ever gets signed. What are the odds Trump tries to solve it the Trump way and just refuse to pay. So Trump declares total and complete victory and a few months from now Iran closes the strait again because the US isn't paying, and Trump pretends its not his fault anymore. Yes the US isn't paying. There is no "pay." Anyone who thinks so... nope. Like you can literally watch the linked video of Vance explaining Gulf States can invest in Iran if Iran grows up and behaves like a country, and somehow take away from that "Drumpf is sending $300 billion to Iran" - this borders on insanity. Nobody who took and passed civics in an American elementary school is for a moment shaken by such an absurd claim. It is not even physically possible. Like it is not even worth explaining. The President does not have a fucking Scrooge McDuck fund of trillions of dollars that he can just send wherever he wants. It does not exist. There is no legal mechanism for $300 billion dollars to exist and be sendable, to anyone. Maybe this is too unclear. After all, Drumpf is the biggest criminal since Biden. Why would he rely on the law. Don't misunderstand. There is no legal mechanism. There is no illegal mechanism. There is no mechanism. Even the $1.776 billion anti-weaponization fund, tapping into funds literally established by Congress, which the hysterics in this thread told me was a wire payment from the government to Trump, isn't happening. Suppose the war criminal Trump goes the legal way and you put it in a treaty. Okay, it needs two thirds of the Senate as a treaty, and needs to pass both houses of Congress as an enormous spending package. That is never happening in 300 billion years. Elementary schoolers don't fall for this bullshit lol. Of course some people aren't just falling for it. They know exactly what they're doing and are willfully perpetuating it. What apparently this whole thing is in reference to is if Iran behaves, they can get investment and partnerships with private companies from the Gulf States, Asia, South America, Africa, oh and the US? - so Iran can rejoin the community of nations and become dependent enough that they knock off the antisocial behavior. The fund's existence has been previously reported but Reuters is revealing for the first time that more than half of the amount has already been committed and that it will be comprised entirely of private-sector funds.
U.S. and Iranian officials said on Sunday they had agreed on a framework to end their war, which began when U.S. and Israeli forces attacked Iran on February 28, halt the U.S. blockade of Iran and reopen the Strait of Hormuz, a key supply route for global oil and gas.
The new fund is a private investment vehicle, not a reconstruction or reparations programme and will not include any government money or grants, the source said, adding that companies based in the U.S., the Gulf Arab states, Asia, South America and Africa have agreed to commit financing. That is probably better than just cutting them off from the world to be poor forever (hasn't worked in Cuba, and killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq by sanctions after the First Gulf War), although there are arguments on all sides, since it's private money they can do what they want after all, and if you don't like it, make your own multinational oil conglomerate. The US committed to them getting $300b. If someone else doesn't come up with the money then the US guaranteed the amount.
I linked a real article. It's Reuters so their own source could easily be made up for all we know. But it's something. You, nothing. What is your source for this at all? Your imagination? You saw the word "committed" and ran with it for more sophistry?
It says "companies have agreed to commit financing."
There isn't a final deal. It doesn't exist which is why we can't read it which is why it can't say "The US guarantees $300 billion dollars of cold hard cash that don't exist under authority that the president doesn't have." The US hasn't "committed" to anything other than a 60 day framework of the MOU to work out the details of a final agreement. There's only this:
6 — The United States of America undertakes with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least USD 300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The mechanism for the implementation of this plan will be finalized as part of a final deal within 60 days. All required licenses, waivers and permissions needed for the relevant financial transactions will be granted by the United States of America.
"develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan" does not mean "we promise $300 billion in cold hard cash regardless of even the worst-faith negotiations imaginable" it means "we will work something out" which is where the "companies have agreed to commit financing" becomes important because it tells us the number is in a feasible range such that the amount of capital and partnerships and investment have sufficient interest from companies and "regional partners" to really happen.
Think for one second. Suppose the number said $50 trillion. Would your reaction be:
1) wow Drumpf made the US be on the hook for $50 trillion which Iran can definitely sue the US to collect on in International Big Claims Court what an idiot
2) that's obviously impossible, which means if Iran agreed to it they are morons who got swindled
Take those reactions, apply them to the clause you read and then realize that insisting on reading this as the US government having promised a wire transfer in the amount of the GDP of Finland, no take backsies, cannot possibly be right. Which by the way my source is the president in charge of the negotiations. Your source, again?
I can't even wrap my head around your self-defeating worldview. After 6 years Trump finally figured out this one hidden presidential trick to sending hundreds of billions of US tax dollars to enemy countries. Sent exactly $0 to good old boss Putin in Russia.
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I don't really know what you were expecting. That's the kind of document you expect to sign after you lose your war of aggression. The pre-war status quo returns except the aggressor has to pay reparations for all the shit they destroyed. The problem here really isn't the MoU, it's trying to start a war you can't finish. Just be glad Trump listened to advice to not go full Russia and turn a 3-day special operation into a ground war that has lasted longer than WW1. This deal is FAR better than that!
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1361 Posts
At this stage I don't think even Iran is serious about any sort of deal. Any sort of ceasefire/peace involving Israel is dead on conception. They aren't interested in the global economy, or seemingly, their global reputation. Noone has any ability to credibly agree to anything on behalf of Israel except Israel.
Even if the US agreed formally to pay Iran reparations, Noone believes the ceasefire would stand long enough for a cent of this to materialise.
At this stage I think the best Iran is hoping for is the US forces to fuck off (declaring victory, deal or otherwise), and the just end up still in active hostilities with Israel.
Seems like they are just letting the US humiliate itself with endless proclamations of a formal agreement to end hostilities, that all parties know are not actually feasible.
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United States44393 Posts
On June 18 2026 13:59 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2026 23:25 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2026 21:23 oBlade wrote:On June 17 2026 17:38 Gorsameth wrote:
Had a dumb thought, assume the deal ever gets signed. What are the odds Trump tries to solve it the Trump way and just refuse to pay. So Trump declares total and complete victory and a few months from now Iran closes the strait again because the US isn't paying, and Trump pretends its not his fault anymore. Yes the US isn't paying. There is no "pay." Anyone who thinks so... nope. Like you can literally watch the linked video of Vance explaining Gulf States can invest in Iran if Iran grows up and behaves like a country, and somehow take away from that "Drumpf is sending $300 billion to Iran" - this borders on insanity. Nobody who took and passed civics in an American elementary school is for a moment shaken by such an absurd claim. It is not even physically possible. Like it is not even worth explaining. The President does not have a fucking Scrooge McDuck fund of trillions of dollars that he can just send wherever he wants. It does not exist. There is no legal mechanism for $300 billion dollars to exist and be sendable, to anyone. Maybe this is too unclear. After all, Drumpf is the biggest criminal since Biden. Why would he rely on the law. Don't misunderstand. There is no legal mechanism. There is no illegal mechanism. There is no mechanism. Even the $1.776 billion anti-weaponization fund, tapping into funds literally established by Congress, which the hysterics in this thread told me was a wire payment from the government to Trump, isn't happening. Suppose the war criminal Trump goes the legal way and you put it in a treaty. Okay, it needs two thirds of the Senate as a treaty, and needs to pass both houses of Congress as an enormous spending package. That is never happening in 300 billion years. Elementary schoolers don't fall for this bullshit lol. Of course some people aren't just falling for it. They know exactly what they're doing and are willfully perpetuating it. What apparently this whole thing is in reference to is if Iran behaves, they can get investment and partnerships with private companies from the Gulf States, Asia, South America, Africa, oh and the US? - so Iran can rejoin the community of nations and become dependent enough that they knock off the antisocial behavior. The fund's existence has been previously reported but Reuters is revealing for the first time that more than half of the amount has already been committed and that it will be comprised entirely of private-sector funds.
U.S. and Iranian officials said on Sunday they had agreed on a framework to end their war, which began when U.S. and Israeli forces attacked Iran on February 28, halt the U.S. blockade of Iran and reopen the Strait of Hormuz, a key supply route for global oil and gas.
The new fund is a private investment vehicle, not a reconstruction or reparations programme and will not include any government money or grants, the source said, adding that companies based in the U.S., the Gulf Arab states, Asia, South America and Africa have agreed to commit financing. That is probably better than just cutting them off from the world to be poor forever (hasn't worked in Cuba, and killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq by sanctions after the First Gulf War), although there are arguments on all sides, since it's private money they can do what they want after all, and if you don't like it, make your own multinational oil conglomerate. The US committed to them getting $300b. If someone else doesn't come up with the money then the US guaranteed the amount. I linked a real article. It's Reuters so their own source could easily be made up for all we know. But it's something. You, nothing. What is your source for this at all? Your imagination? You saw the word "committed" and ran with it for more sophistry? It says " companies have agreed to commit financing." There isn't a final deal. It doesn't exist which is why we can't read it which is why it can't say "The US guarantees $300 billion dollars of cold hard cash that don't exist under authority that the president doesn't have." The US hasn't "committed" to anything other than a 60 day framework of the MOU to work out the details of a final agreement. There's only this: 6 — The United States of America undertakes with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least USD 300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The mechanism for the implementation of this plan will be finalized as part of a final deal within 60 days. All required licenses, waivers and permissions needed for the relevant financial transactions will be granted by the United States of America. "develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan" does not mean "we promise $300 billion in cold hard cash regardless of even the worst-faith negotiations imaginable" it means "we will work something out" which is where the "companies have agreed to commit financing" becomes important because it tells us the number is in a feasible range such that the amount of capital and partnerships and investment have sufficient interest from companies and "regional partners" to really happen. Think for one second. Suppose the number said $50 trillion. Would your reaction be: 1) wow Drumpf made the US be on the hook for $50 trillion which Iran can definitely sue the US to collect on in International Big Claims Court what an idiot 2) that's obviously impossible, which means if Iran agreed to it they are morons who got swindled Take those reactions, apply them to the clause you read and then realize that insisting on reading this as the US government having promised a wire transfer in the amount of the GDP of Finland, no take backsies, cannot possibly be right. Which by the way my source is the president in charge of the negotiations. Your source, again? I can't even wrap my head around your self-defeating worldview. After 6 years Trump finally figured out this one hidden presidential trick to sending hundreds of billions of US tax dollars to enemy countries. Sent exactly $0 to good old boss Putin in Russia.
Yeah, I guess if it was $50 trillion they committed to then that would be $50 trillion. A point well made.
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On June 17 2026 21:23 oBlade wrote:
so Iran can rejoin the community of nations.
Iran doesn't need anyone's permision for that. They already are in UN and are far from being total pariah. You are clowning more and more.
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"Listen up Iran. I'm actually really fucking sorry." - US leadership signing the deal.
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On June 18 2026 15:41 Acrofales wrote:I don't really know what you were expecting. That's the kind of document you expect to sign after you lose your war of aggression. The pre-war status quo returns except the aggressor has to pay reparations for all the shit they destroyed. The problem here really isn't the MoU, it's trying to start a war you can't finish. Just be glad Trump listened to advice to not go full Russia and turn a 3-day special operation into a ground war that has lasted longer than WW1. This deal is FAR better than that!
But for Trump's first term war of aggression vs. Canada and Mexico the US never would have needed to sign the USMCA.
Vastly overestimated some of you.
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United States44393 Posts
On June 18 2026 16:02 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
Even if the US agreed formally to pay Iran reparations, Noone believes the ceasefire would stand long enough for a cent of this to materialise.
The first transfers have already taken place because, as you say, it is well known that the US negotiates in bad faith. That’s why the US is being forced to pay to get Iran to agree to sit down for talks.
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On June 18 2026 16:33 Luolis wrote:
"Listen up Iran. I'm actually really fucking sorry." - US leadership signing the deal.
it is a sight to behold.
something tells me this announcement of an announcement of a potential deal could have been had without the last 3+ months.
turns out trying to "wing it" with an obscene amount of resources loses out to an adversary having an actual plan of running out the clock and choking off a crucial waterway until the costs are simply too high to maintain for even a super power and a world reliant on a steady supply of oil.
Iran is stronger after this deal than they were before.
if it keeps them in check great I guess, but what was it all for?
strategic oil reserves at a record low, rocket stockpiles depleted, consumers around the world pissed off due to higher gas prices - especially in the US, Mid-Eastern countries wondering how great of a shield the US really is able to provide...
Israel now being pissed at the US and in a position to nuke the talks, after all it's election season there.
@AxiosTrump inflamed the backlash on Tuesday by praising Iran's negotiators in a bilateral meeting with Qatar's emir, a key mediator distrusted by many pro-Israel Republicans.
"We're dealing with people that I think are very rational people," Trump said, adding that Iranian officials were "nice to deal with," "not radicalized" and "looking to help their country."
For hawks who view Iran's government as a terrorist regime incapable of reform, the president's language deepened their fear that the deal rewards Tehran for surviving the war.
what a difference 3 months make, one could mistake Iran having bombed Trump into submission lol.
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Anyone wanna guess on what the conservative marching orders will be in about 24h-48h? Can't wait to hear how this proposal/deal is in fact a totally awesome 4d chess move.
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On June 18 2026 17:54 Velr wrote:
Anyone wanna guess on what the conservative marching orders will be in about 24h-48h? Can't wait to hear how this proposal/deal is in fact a totally awesome 4d chess move.
My guess is that the conservative marching orders are going to be that we were victorious against Iran, but also that we should just forget about the whole Iran situation and move on.
And then maybe they'll make some insane assertion to distract us, like how Biden was a bigger criminal than Trump. Just a hunch.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1361 Posts
On June 18 2026 17:54 Velr wrote:
Anyone wanna guess on what the conservative marching orders will be in about 24h-48h? Can't wait to hear how this proposal/deal is in fact a totally awesome 4d chess move.
It's wishful thinking... but I think it would be hilarious if Iran became such bad optics that the official talking points became: "So about those Epstein files, those were really something huh?".
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On June 18 2026 17:54 Velr wrote:
Anyone wanna guess on what the conservative marching orders will be in about 24h-48h? Can't wait to hear how this proposal/deal is in fact a totally awesome 4d chess move.
"Why don't Democrats want peace with Iran? Are they bloodthirsty warmongers?"
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I love that Hurt Child and Fox News Drunkard Hegseth newly named « Department of War » (hey doesn’t it sound badass) immediately proceeded to start a war and lose it to fucking Iran of all places.
So much winning. Aren’t you guys tired of winning ?
Remembering Maga yelling that if Clinton was elected she would start a war with Iran that would end the world is also delicious.
I don’t know how those guys brain doesn’t just explode from the amount of cognitive dissonance going on there. At least it’s not encumbered by self respect.
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I'm still not over that DOGE cut research into children's cancer because our civilization is bankrupt and can't afford all this DEI spending but renaming the Department of Defense was instantly accepted by Republicans as a justifiable cost.
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I mean whatever topic you look at, MAGA stands for being massive cunts in every possible issue because that’s manly and it’s owning the libs.
Children dying in Africa? Stop sending money. Global warming ? Fuck renewable, let’s go all coal and shit on everything. Cancer research? Slash that. A democratic nation is invaded by a horrendous autocrat ? Side with the autocrat. Minorities fighting for their right ? White power.
It’s really a bunch of kids that haven’t been hugged by their dads and grew up to think that being an absolute fucking twat is badass and makes you a hard man.
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On June 18 2026 17:54 Velr wrote:
Anyone wanna guess on what the conservative marching orders will be in about 24h-48h? Can't wait to hear how this proposal/deal is in fact a totally awesome 4d chess move.
I’d like to push back on this, are there any conservatives (with a spine) left in the Republicans. It’s just moronic populism now.
On June 18 2026 21:15 LightSpectra wrote:
I'm still not over that DOGE cut research into children's cancer because our civilization is bankrupt and can't afford all this DEI spending but renaming the Department of Defense was instantly accepted by Republicans as a justifiable cost.
There is so much dumb shit ( reflection pool, ballroom, naming everything Trump, public funds on ufc event, so on) it is hard to pick a favourite but my current one is doge saving 15m to cut screw worm surveillance and now months later spending a billion on containment of screwworms. Winning so hard.
I like it because it is the moronic antivax mind set. Measals and polio is gone we don’t need that vax shit, and actually it’s evil!
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On June 18 2026 21:38 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I mean whatever topic you look at, MAGA stands for being massive cunts in every possible issue because that’s manly and it’s owning the libs.
Children dying in Africa? Stop sending money. Global warming ? Fuck renewable, let’s go all coal and shit on everything. Cancer research? Slash that. A democratic nation is invaded by a horrendous autocrat ? Side with the autocrat. Minorities fighting for their right ? White power.
It’s really a bunch of kids that haven’t been hugged by their dads and grew up to think that being an absolute fucking twat is badass and makes you a hard man.
Depressingly accurate
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United States44393 Posts
This is another really good moment for conservatives to stubbornly refuse any kind of reflection on the media that they consume and how it could have led them to draw such utterly false conclusions.
In retrospect America's defeat in this war seems so obvious that it was basically inevitable. A regime change war where you refuse to change the regime. An occupation of the ground on the strait using air power alone. It was never going to work.
And I guess it must have been obvious because somehow random commentators on team liquid like myself said as much from the start.
So we have a situation in which people consuming conservative media were saying thisOn March 03 2026 03:37 oBlade wrote:
There is already no "Iran." Random missiles to Iraq and Oman and Kuwait is a product of central command and control collapse.
at the same time as I was saying thisOn March 03 2026 03:14 KwarK wrote:
To win this all Iran needs to do is keep causing expense (delayed oil freighters, refinery shutdowns, incredibly expensive interceptor missile burn rates, infrastructure damage) without internal collapse.
That's not to say that all is going well in Iran, clearly it is not. But all is going according to plan. There was a plan for how to deal with this situation and they're not flying blind. If they don't collapse but do continue to disrupt then Trump is going to be the one declaring victory and going home without any of his stated objectives met. Trump needs Iran’s internal loyalist security forces to switch sides in order to win, Iran needs them to hold firm and be willing to massacre Iranians to win. We don’t know whether they will hold firm, I’m not going to predict an Iranian victory, but they certainly have a theory of victory here.
We got to view how two brains of admittedly uneven quality were able to forecast the future after consuming information from two sources of uneven quality. In retrospect it is pretty clear that one forecast was substantially better than the other.
So the question now is will the conservative ask himself why, when his information source was tested against reality, it was so thoroughly disproved? Will he change his information source to one that doesn't lead to such public humiliation? Will there be any introspection at all about how he got it so completely wrong?
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The most depressing part of the world we live in, is no matter how many times or how wrong, there is no learning. It is diving deeper into the slop so they can keep pretending they are winning and are right.
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EPT
