On May 29 2026 00:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 29 2026 00:38 WombaT wrote:On May 28 2026 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 28 2026 10:21 WombaT wrote:On May 28 2026 10:02 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 28 2026 09:19 WombaT wrote:On May 28 2026 02:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
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Considering the first anti-organizing part is completely asinine and nonsensical, and you didn't mention it specifically, I have to believe you ignored it so you could say you agreed with the rest of Razyda's post.
As for the reality that people vote against their own interests because they have been propagandized to believe that's their best/only choice, that is part of what organizing is meant to address.
As for racists and bigots being selfishly motivated, that's what got us "The New Deal", which iirc is the biggest accomplishment Democrats can claim.
Republican voters want a far more equitable wealth distribution than the US has but they have no idea how to make it happen, same goes for Democrat voters (neither realize how bad it actually is). What is clear is that voting for them isn't going to get it, and it's only getting worse until it finally breaks. Without organization at the community level, it'll be a chaotic mess where those that are still holding wealth and power will reconsolidate under a new (likely worse) regime.
This all isn't unrelated to the description lightspectra just provided about both parties' fixation on Europe as a model or warning sign depending on the topic/country.
It’s all fanciful bollocks tbh, projecting that the US is ripe for genuine left wing politics based on one poll is about as sensible as predicting that OnlyFans users will become models of chastity
You don’t seem to actually live on this planet, or if you do you certainly don’t understand it very well
Your assertion that I'm "projecting that the US is ripe for genuine left wing politics based on one poll" is certainly "fanciful bollocks".
FWIW wanting a far more equitable society than the US currently is isn't unique to party, time, or even country.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5233831https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/asap.12397https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287000663_American's_desire_for_less_wealth_inequality_does_not_depend_on_how_you_ask_themIt's quite literally an issue of organizing the people that want it (~90%+ of the country) around an actual way to do it despite the other ~10%'s best efforts to stop them. Which includes but is not limited to:
Amplifying our disagreements and idiocies among and against each other.
The ratchet effect.
Nihilism/hopelessness/"pragmatism"
Bread and Circus
etc...
+ Show Spoiler +It’s utter nonsense and you don’t live in reality. You don’t seem to understand how politics well, actually functions. Good luck with that
How much of that 90% voted to aid and abet genocide I wonder? Is it ok to bring them into the tent for the greater good now?
Even though there is big support for this, it’s very diffuse and you’re going to have to make compromises with such a coalition.
So much unnecessary hostility baked into that spoiler.
Correct.
On May 28 2026 11:12 Fleetfeet wrote:On May 28 2026 10:29 Turbovolver wrote:
"Want it" and "want to fight/sacrifice for it" are very different things, though.
Agreed. I read the 90% of people wanting it with the same gravity as 90% of people wanting to learn to play guitar or 90% of people wanting to be fitter. Sure, people (say they) want it, but if they don't want it enough to get callouses and do boring practice, or stick to a workout routine and somewhat mindful diet, then how much does them 'wanting it' matter?
It matters with regard to selling those people the thing they say they want, I suppose.
Are either of you under the impression that people want the current inequality (that they expressly say they don't want whenever asked) bad enough to fight and sacrifice to keep it over the more equitable society they expressly say they want?
Who’s in the White House currently? Did they especially run on addressing these concerns?
Of that 90%, you can wipe out a big chunk by considering 2 cohorts:
1. Resolve inequity for me but not for thee
2. I love capitalism and would like less inequity, but I don’t want to reform capitalism fundamentally or switch to an alternative. So effectively people who are dissatisfied but believe in magic and trends that run for decades and decades aren’t evidence enough that this won’t work
In a crude sense, people love the government to give them money. For a society to actualise that, said people also have to be OK with them giving other people money. You tend to get
way higher favourability on the former, but you need buyin on the latter to actually construct functional systems.
I think there’s sufficient appetite for pretty significant improvement in certain areas, but I think that appetite is in a more distributive capitalism and a fairer tax regime etc and nothing all that radical
Trump is and yes he did. Meanwhile Biden insisted people were hallucinating their economic conditions being bad. Now it's Trump's turn to pretend things aren't bad and Democrats to make empty promises about fixing them.
Those two cohorts are functionally the only people that got to participate in crafting The New Deal, which iirc is the best accomplishment the Democrats have on record. So that's a baseline of sorts of what
capitalism needs again.
Getting back to the original premise:
DanHH said:
The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah.
I said:
I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being.
What is it you are trying to say you believe it is?
EDIT: Forgot to include an obligatory Republicans are worse than Democrats for lightspectra
I wasn’t clear enough there? I genuinely don’t know how much clearer I can make it
EPT
