|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On March 11 2025 21:12 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2025 17:33 Luolis wrote:On March 11 2025 17:11 Geiko wrote:
forced use of pronouns Imagine being asked to respect people's identity. So rude and woke. cancel culture Cancel culture went so far that we now have... *checks notes* a racist rapist as the president of the US. If that's not an indication that "cancel culture" was never a big deal, then i don't know what is. extreme affirmative action "Extreme affirmative action" just feels like another buzzword to get around blaming black people for issues, just like "CRT", "woke" and "DEI". It's not like there has been no issue, but again super overblown compared to the levels of this actually happening. transwomen in women's sports The most nuanced issue on the list, and personally as a trans woman i think we need more research on the "fairness" of it and if HRT helps enough to mitigate the effects of male puberty. Regardless, it's also a super super super niche issue, and if that alone made a person vote for Trump, i'd call them uneducated. Most people would agree to be kind to your fellow men and women and call them by whatever they want to be called. Most people would also agree that having everyone write he/him in their resume or taking 5minutes before every meeting to let people tell everyone what their favorite pronoun is, is way over the line. Cancel culture was a big thing in 2020 and now the pendulum has completely swung in the other direction where making nazi salutes is A-OK. That only strengthens my point that the people going into one extreme are partially to blame for the popularity of the other extreme. I'm not saying affirmative action is to blame for everything wrong in society, I'm saying it's usually seen by the more moderate voters as something irrational. At the core of it it's discrimination against a race of people, even if that race has "privilege". All of these issues are super niche as you said, which is why it's silly to let the extreme left campaign on those by tacitly letting it happen. You're only angering the far right even more than they already are and pushing away the weak minded independents to the right.
No i genuinely don't think in pronouned languages putting your pronouns is "way over the line". At worst it's a bit cringe. The meeting thing sounds like some misinterpretation of a cringe thing that happened once and is then quoted forever as fact.
Cancel culture really did not do very much. Were there a couple overreaches and false accusations that hurt people? Sure. Did that happen a lot? Not really. Did things like MeToo help bring actual justice to victims? Absolutely. This countterreaction is like me shooting your kid because he once did a doorbell ring & dash on me. Completely inane.
US affirmative action can definitely look weird to us Europeans and i bet a lot of uneducated US voters as well. The system with it probably can work better too, but i think the core idea comes from the right place.
If these niche issues that come from the right place are seen as equal extremism to literal fascism that we're seeing in USA now, then i feel like the Overton Window is so far to the right that we're fucked anyway so might as well stand behind your principles.
Why did you leave out the part about trans women in sports btw? Thats a common hobby horse that far right people like to use to call the left "insane" and "extreme".
|
On March 11 2025 21:12 Geiko wrote:
taking 5minutes before every meeting to let people tell everyone what their favorite pronoun is, is way over the line.
I'm just wondering if you think this is actually something that people do, or if you're intentionally being hyperbolic.
Maybe at a first introductory meeting or some ice breaker event, if everyone is already introducing themselves, people might want to add the extra information about their preferred pronouns. But that's it. Not "every meeting". Not "five minutes". Not "favorite pronouns".
Going from "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall" to "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall, and I use he/him" takes an additional one or two seconds.
|
On March 11 2025 17:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:I think this blogpost is a well-articulated analysis of the appeal of the new Trumpian world order, one that is rare to see. https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/american-strong-godsFollowing is a rebuttal - https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/this-thing-will-failTo state the obvious - I agree much more with the latter than the former. But I believe both of these are well worth reading if you want to make a genuine effort at understanding the appeal of Trump - which I think is important if we want to effectively combat him/what he represents. While I, like the second article states, think it is a good idea to have 'opposition of Hitler' as an underlying principle of politics, I also think Lyons has some points in that western society has lost its fabric. Where I greatly differ, is that I believe the internet, the personalization of our mediaspheres and reduced human interaction is the underlying explanation rather than the absense of religion or 'strong gods' - but imo, there is great validity to the point that the openness for the sake of openness might contribute to a feeling of vague meaningless individualism (or something to this effect, honestly not feeling like I'm articulating my point in a particularly salient way here but I also want to press 'post'), especially when combined with targeted consumerism and targeted media.
Lyons is alright, and people who looks for underlying trends or causes in our society are better than those who just adopt whatever Trump says at face value or project their own intellectual processes onto him. But things more thoughtful than the knee-jerk reactions to whatever happens on that day is always appreciated.
I think all those things you mentioned are of a peice. But it's true that, iirc, Europe started losing it's religion after the wars. It's probably more right to say the internet has further enabled trends already growing. The west doesn't know how to handle it's own abundance and doesn't want to consider how it could be lost. These would be classic human problems, too.
|
On March 11 2025 23:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2025 21:12 Geiko wrote:
taking 5minutes before every meeting to let people tell everyone what their favorite pronoun is, is way over the line. I'm just wondering if you think this is actually something that people do, or if you're intentionally being hyperbolic. Maybe at a first introductory meeting or some ice breaker event, if everyone is already introducing themselves, people might want to add the extra information about their preferred pronouns. But that's it. Not "every meeting". Not "five minutes". Not "favorite pronouns". Going from "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall" to "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall, and I use he/him" takes an additional one or two seconds.
This whole discussion is so weird. Rightwinger claim that things that they never experienced, and that i never experienced, are definitively a huge problem that absolutely is out of control.
And yet they cannot seem to find a single person that actually had to deal with that horrible problem.
It is this weird disconnect between their perceived reality and actual reality that is so confusing. I am certain that people like Geiko actually believe that there are huge areas of society where people constantly talk about pronouns all day, and force everyone else to do so, too. But if you actually believe this, you should check your media consumption, because it is clearly trying to mislead you.
Trust what you have actually experienced. If you have not experienced this thing, and don't know a single person who has, treat it with scepticism. Don't assume that there is a huge world of completely lunactic leftwingers around that you just seem to never see anywhere.
|
I said earlier in this thread that Sheinbaum did a much better job negotiating with Trump than Canada did. In particular I specified that Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau really messed up badly.
Welp, Ontario's steel and aluminum are getting hit with 50% tariffs. Trump is going to crush Ontario, Canada. The people of Ontario just recently voted for Ford and gave him a mandate.
Lol, Doug Ford really screwed this up.
Ford and Trudeau have been far too confrontational. Carney's recent speech did not help.
|
On March 11 2025 23:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2025 21:12 Geiko wrote:
taking 5minutes before every meeting to let people tell everyone what their favorite pronoun is, is way over the line. I'm just wondering if you think this is actually something that people do, or if you're intentionally being hyperbolic. Maybe at a first introductory meeting or some ice breaker event, if everyone is already introducing themselves, people might want to add the extra information about their preferred pronouns. But that's it. Not "every meeting". Not "five minutes". Not "favorite pronouns". Going from "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall" to "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall, and I use he/him" takes an additional one or two seconds. its always the same shit. Whether its pronounces, CRT, DEI, trans ect ect. They get told about some amazing bigly giant problem where 'the left' is off the rails but they never experience anything themselves.
Like the last few pages full of talk about trans in sports. its a 0.00000000001% problem. Practically no one ever has to deal with it but you'd think it was some big problem.
"A friend of a friend hear on the radio that somewhere there is a law that makes it illegal to use a wrong pronoun'. The fact that people even consider something so monumentally dumb shows how deeply indoctrinated they are in the 'culture war'.
|
On March 11 2025 23:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I said earlier in this thread that Sheinbaum did a much better job negotiating with Trump than Canada did. In particular I specified that Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau really messed up badly.
Welp, Ontario's steel and aluminum are getting hit with 50% tariffs. Trump is going to crush Ontario, Canada. The people of Ontario just recently voted for Ford and gave him a mandate.
Lol, Doug Ford really screwed this up. Because we all know America doesn't actually need steel and aluminum right. They can just stop buying that stuff. lol
|
United States42016 Posts
Cancel culture has always been a right wing thing. Getting upset over Disney or bud light or whatever. People on the left just don’t buy whatever they don’t want to buy, like how they’re not buying Teslas. That’s called capitalism. People on the right want to ban what they don’t like.
The problem is that people on the right view any kind of negative social feedback on their actions as a personal attack on them. This is because people on the right are sensitive entitled little snowflake bitches who wouldn’t last ten minutes in the real world. That’s why they use whatever power they have to try to turn everywhere into a safe space where they don’t have to be offended by pronouns or gay people in commercials or black mermaids or whatever.
|
On March 11 2025 23:47 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2025 23:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I said earlier in this thread that Sheinbaum did a much better job negotiating with Trump than Canada did. In particular I specified that Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau really messed up badly.
Welp, Ontario's steel and aluminum are getting hit with 50% tariffs. Trump is going to crush Ontario, Canada. The people of Ontario just recently voted for Ford and gave him a mandate.
Lol, Doug Ford really screwed this up. Because we all know America doesn't actually need steel and aluminum right. They can just stop buying that stuff. lol
Also, for certain applications you need a certain quality of steel the US can't produce enough of if at all. You have to import from countries like Japan or Germany.
|
On March 11 2025 23:47 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2025 23:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I said earlier in this thread that Sheinbaum did a much better job negotiating with Trump than Canada did. In particular I specified that Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau really messed up badly.
Welp, Ontario's steel and aluminum are getting hit with 50% tariffs. Trump is going to crush Ontario, Canada. The people of Ontario just recently voted for Ford and gave him a mandate.
Lol, Doug Ford really screwed this up. Because we all know America doesn't actually need steel and aluminum right. They can just stop buying that stuff. lol
they'll buy a lot less Steel and Aluminum from Ontario. Americans can buy steel elsewhere. Mexico and Quebec leadership steered clear of confronting Trump in any hard core way and are benefiting accordingly. Doug Ford is doing the tough guy thing and getting crushed. And again, he just got elected... the people of Ontario want Doug Ford to do what he is doing. Ontarians are learning a hard lesson.
Doug Ford went on a USA media tour announcing his retaliation tariffs. bad move. Quebec's premier kept a low profile as did Sheinbaum. Neither announced any retaliatory tariffs. New York state can replace some Ontario energy with Quebec energy. Also , the warmer weather is coming so Quebec has a surplus of energy to sell. Legault out maneuvered Ford.
Compared to Doug Ford .. Francois Legault is quieter than a church mouse. a french catholic church mouse. 
How long before the Toronto Raptors move to Buffalo? LOL.
In conclusion, being confrontational with Trump is a really bad move. I deal with loud-mouthed blowhard Americans like him all the time... and Doug Ford is messing this up badly. The Canadians best at dealing with these kinds of loud mouth powerful Americans always strike the best deals.
At the very beginning when Trump first called Canada a potential "51st state" the Canadian leaders should've asked him why he feels this way. Then they should ask what it would take to alleviate his concerns. Then quietly go about doing the things he requests. Instead, Canadian leaders got their back up. They let their pride get in the way.
Fuck Pride
|
United States42016 Posts
On March 12 2025 00:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
At the very beginning when Trump first called Canada a potential "51st state" the Canadian leaders should've asked him why he feels this way. Then they should ask what it would take to alleviate his concerns. Then quietly go about doing the things he requests.
This is peak cuck energy.
|
Conclusion: If someone is a bully, always surrender and give them what they want. That is the best way of dealing with them.
If americans can buy steel elsewhere (presumably for a higher cost or for higher transportation costs), then canadians can sell steel elsewhere (for less money or higher transportation costs). Yes, it is stupid and hurts both sides. There is a reason those companies bought canadian steel before. Because it was the best deal for them.
|
United States42016 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/gtbifm80ezne1.jpeg)
"your not allowed to do that"
"we don't your Energy"
and some pretty serious crimes against commas throughout
You guys remember when the POTUS was the former editor of the Harvard Law Review?
This guy couldn't pass the fifth grade.
|
What a fucking neurodegenerate. They voted a senile old yapper in the highest position possible. Purely out of spite. Absolutely surreal. And it's not even been 2 months. Lmao, even.
|
Wow, he can’t even write. And he’s in total control of the most powerful country in the world. How did it go so wrong? I had a slight hope that his retardness was democrat propaganda but he really is as fucked up as you said. It’s even worse actually.
|
Northern Ireland23942 Posts
On March 11 2025 15:15 BlackJack wrote:
Btw the incumbent SF mayor asking people to name drag queens got voted out. The progressive DA of San Francisco got recalled. Just like neighboring Oakland mayor and their progressive DA got the boot in their respective elections. California overwhelmingly passed Prop 36, opposed by Newsom, to stiffen penalties against retail theft. To bring this back to my point before this got off the rails - Democrats would be wise to reflect on these election results. You can't blame this on MAGA. Even deep blue territory is rejecting them. Dems better start listening and make a course correction or they can keep taking the L's.
Wokeness cannot simultaneously be taking over and be everywhere, but be toxic and losing at the same time. It’s like the Fascist conception of enemies who are simultaneously all-powerful, but weak.
It has to be over-amplified, cherry-picked and oft-misrepresented if it’s to fulfil its boogeyman role. Or incredibly loosely-defined, so it can latch on to other things.
Both of these things can simultaneously be true:
1. Wokeness is very unpopular in some quarters.
2. The size of the ‘problem’ is grossly, and deliberately distorted by some. And amplified by many others who are hoodwinked, but not being deliberately deceptive.
I don’t think myself, Uldrige, Dan dispute point 1, but you seem to dispute point 2.
I hate to do it, fuck I don’t wanna Godwin. Shit. Anyway, like a bunch of folks in Weimar Germany bought that Jews and insidious Commies were to blame to Germany’s, and their problems.
Other countries have had a rehabilitative approach to criminal justice for decades before ‘wokeness’ had entered the vernacular. San Franciscan policy was a mess.
As I’ve repeatedly said, bad policy. But a tangible policy question nonetheless. This is actually a thing, I’d say there are ‘woke’ justifications in play here, fair enough. The thing is, it’s now lumped in with wokeness, so it’s being judged partly through that lens, rather than purely on its effectiveness in terms of aims/outcomes/takeaways.
The side-effect of making this a ‘woke’ issue rather than a criminal justice policy issue, is in limiting the scope of assessment. By this I mean, this woke policy bad, woke madness reverse course. Crucially the thing missing by not purely looking at it through ye olde policy assessment eyes is, a comparative assessment to other US approaches and comparable nations. Where the status quo approach in the US is also clearly deficient in many, many areas.
I’ll add, not necessarily meaning you personally in some of this, but how I’ve often seen such things framed.
Affirmative action, long, long instituted in various domains before wokeness entered public consciousness. In some quarters for quite good bloody historical reasons.
Sure, another very real thing, meritorious of proper discussion. And yeah, there be ‘wokeness’ here as well. Similarly to the above. Affirmative action bad because wokeness. Where in reality affirmative action is a policy response to a problem. It should be assessed as such, what is the scope of said problem, does it even need fixing? Is affirmative action an appropriate solution? What drawbacks are there from affirmative action? Are there better alternatives?
Immigration, it’s a biggy. Same kinda shit at play. I think this is absolutely an area where folks with legitimate issues are effectively told to shut up, although that too preceded the woke era.
Anyway, we end up in a chuck the baby out with the bathwater scenario IMO when people start tying wokeness to everything. Some will then wholesale reject things with that association, rather than treating them as discrete, different problems with divergent solutions.
If everything is woke, and one is anti-woke, well ya gotta fight that good fight. If one goes case-by-case, you could desire a more Nordic approach to criminal justice, while simultaneously opposing affirmative action, or whatever.
Other stuff you’ve mentioned:
Chicago School Union - Yeah, I’m unsure of what their rationale is. Whatever it was, yeah I think cloaking it in actual woke language, pretty bad call.
London Breed ‘name 3 drag queens’ - I think I both demonstrated this was somewhat misrepresented and amplified by conservative media and I still expressed finding it a bit silly regardless, and she lost anyway.
As per my experience, here’s WombaT’s patented Cycle of Woke DiscourseTM
1. Yeah it’s really like, not all that common. Not something I encounter all that often.
2. ‘Here’s a thing that happened somewhere’
3. Either:
- ‘Yeah that sounds kinda dumb, but it’s pretty trivial no?’
- ‘I disagree with that, but is it woke?’
- ‘Didn’t that get reversed/that person didn’t win?’
- ‘OK fair enough on that one’
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 in perpetuity until either one participant is converted, or the heat-death of the universe.
|
Northern Ireland23942 Posts
On March 12 2025 01:15 KwarK wrote:
"your not allowed to do that"
"we don't your Energy"
and some pretty serious crimes against commas throughout
You guys remember when the POTUS was the former editor of the Harvard Law Review?
This guy couldn't pass the fifth grade.
Serious ‘screw you, I think you’re ugly anyway!’ energy
|
On March 12 2025 01:52 Timebon3s wrote:
Wow, he can’t even write. And he’s in total control of the most powerful country in the world. How did it go so wrong? I had a slight hope that his retardness was democrat propaganda but he really is as fucked up as you said. It’s even worse actually.
Nope. Even his own runningmate (Vance) had called him Hitler more times than his election opponent did (Harris).
|
On March 12 2025 01:52 Timebon3s wrote:
Wow, he can’t even write. And he’s in total control of the most powerful country in the world. How did it go so wrong? I had a slight hope that his retardness was democrat propaganda but he really is as fucked up as you said. It’s even worse actually. I don't see anything worse then any tweet he has made in the last 8+ years.
If you thought it was all propaganda you have not been paying attention.
|
On March 11 2025 23:40 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2025 23:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 11 2025 21:12 Geiko wrote:
taking 5minutes before every meeting to let people tell everyone what their favorite pronoun is, is way over the line. I'm just wondering if you think this is actually something that people do, or if you're intentionally being hyperbolic. Maybe at a first introductory meeting or some ice breaker event, if everyone is already introducing themselves, people might want to add the extra information about their preferred pronouns. But that's it. Not "every meeting". Not "five minutes". Not "favorite pronouns". Going from "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall" to "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall, and I use he/him" takes an additional one or two seconds. This whole discussion is so weird. Rightwinger claim that things that they never experienced, and that i never experienced, are definitively a huge problem that absolutely is out of control. And yet they cannot seem to find a single person that actually had to deal with that horrible problem. It is this weird disconnect between their perceived reality and actual reality that is so confusing. I am certain that people like Geiko actually believe that there are huge areas of society where people constantly talk about pronouns all day, and force everyone else to do so, too. But if you actually believe this, you should check your media consumption, because it is clearly trying to mislead you. Trust what you have actually experienced. If you have not experienced this thing, and don't know a single person who has, treat it with scepticism. Don't assume that there is a huge world of completely lunactic leftwingers around that you just seem to never see anywhere. On March 11 2025 23:45 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2025 23:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 11 2025 21:12 Geiko wrote:
taking 5minutes before every meeting to let people tell everyone what their favorite pronoun is, is way over the line. I'm just wondering if you think this is actually something that people do, or if you're intentionally being hyperbolic. Maybe at a first introductory meeting or some ice breaker event, if everyone is already introducing themselves, people might want to add the extra information about their preferred pronouns. But that's it. Not "every meeting". Not "five minutes". Not "favorite pronouns". Going from "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall" to "Hi, my name is DarkPlasmaBall, and I use he/him" takes an additional one or two seconds. its always the same shit. Whether its pronounces, CRT, DEI, trans ect ect. They get told about some amazing bigly giant problem where 'the left' is off the rails but they never experience anything themselves. Like the last few pages full of talk about trans in sports. its a 0.00000000001% problem. Practically no one ever has to deal with it but you'd think it was some big problem. "A friend of a friend hear on the radio that somewhere there is a law that makes it illegal to use a wrong pronoun'. The fact that people even consider something so monumentally dumb shows how deeply indoctrinated they are in the 'culture war'.
It really must be conservative propaganda, because average Republican voters seem wayyy too obsessed with being anti-trans. Disproportionately so. Starting at Trump and going all the way down to red voters, they seem really motivated to stick it to the trans community. The reality is that trans people just want a little respect, and that basic message of human decency warps into "grown men are wearing dresses so that they can legally rape little girls in bathrooms, steal their high school track scholarships, and then become teachers so that they can convince more boys to pretend to be girls". The accusations are insane.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
