EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4471
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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Dan HH
Romania9177 Posts
On October 25 2024 18:04 oBlade wrote: People call Drumpf a rapist on every other page despite being shown a court document that says the opposite. Is "he raped Jean Carroll with his fingers rather than his penis so he's technically not a rapist by the legal definition of New York" really the hill you want to die on or even a meaningful distinction in regards to someone's character? | ||
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Razyda
901 Posts
Are you guys roleplaying current political situation? I heard people on the right saying that this is what left does. Comes up with ridiculous demand, people on the right are like" Wtf, no" People on the left then go "you are racist". It literally took Uldridge 4 posts to imply that oBlade is racist and homophobe... | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26322 Posts
On October 25 2024 18:56 Razyda wrote: @Uldridge and oBlade Are you guys roleplaying current political situation? I heard people on the right saying that this is what left does. Comes up with ridiculous demand, people on the right are like" Wtf, no" People on the left then go "you are racist". It literally took Uldridge 4 posts to imply that oBlade is racist and homophobe... No, he did not do that | ||
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Razyda
901 Posts
On October 25 2024 18:31 Uldridge wrote: I know this is petty, but why not: if you find it normal to use the word faggot as a slur, not related to homosexuals and a homosexual starts asking you why you use it and it being triggering/offensive to them, would you offer the same explanation? What about the n-word? Edit: not sure how you can say that. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45333 Posts
On October 25 2024 19:03 Razyda wrote: Edit: not sure how you can say that. I don’t think Uldridge was implying that oBlade is a racist or homophobe with that post. Uldridge asked oBlade what oBlade would do in those hypothetical scenarios, if oBlade didn't care about how slurs would be received by the targeted demographics. As in, would oBlade avoid using certain words out of respect for the marginalized parties, or not? (At least, that's how I interpreted it.) | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On October 25 2024 18:30 Simberto wrote: Such an incredibly conservative position to have. I could do something that makes life better for other people, that wouldn't cost me anything at all. But i don't have to. So i won't. It costs 1 name from his vocabulary. How much does it cost to get over someone saying a surname you don't like? It might even be a net-positive to overcome being triggered in such a way. Such an incredibly liberal position to try to control someone's speech and then basically label them an asshole for not complying. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5057 Posts
But the people above me pointed that out enough for me it seems. Edit: @BlackJack I can overcome it. I'm just wondering why he's doing it. I've been overcoming his usage of the word for several hundred(?) pages. It just seemed like a childish use of the word that seemed infantilizing the people he was talking with. I understand some of why he's using it, but definitely not all of it. Guess I'll just live in a world where he uses Drumpf, even though it's definitely not necessary. Also @oBlade: what does reclaiming even mean in this context? | ||
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Simberto
Germany11762 Posts
On October 25 2024 18:44 oBlade wrote: Don't know about conservative but it's called freedom, also, define "cost" and "make life better." No one denies that you have that freedom. And no one wants to take it from you. But it still makes you a dick. And this position it is so fundamentally consistent with conservative thought in general. "Sure, i could make life more comfortable for that other person by calling them by the pronouns they choose for themselves. This costs me absolutely nothing. But i have the freedom not to, so i won't, because why would i make life more comfortable for someone who isn't me?" | ||
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Razyda
901 Posts
On October 25 2024 19:06 BlackJack wrote: He offered a hypothetical. It doesn't imply oblade is homophobic or racist On October 25 2024 19:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I don’t think Uldridge was implying that oBlade is a racist or homophobe with that post. Uldridge asked oBlade what oBlade would do in those hypothetical scenarios, if oBlade didn't care about how slurs would be received by the targeted demographics. As in, would oBlade avoid using certain words out of respect for the marginalized parties, or not? (At least, that's how I interpreted it.) Yes he did offered hypothetical, but I think this is what this was implying. I read this post pretty much the same way DPB did, except I considered it as false equivalence to Drumpf thing, as in if oBlade doesnt accommodate Uldridge then it implies that he wouldn't " avoid using certain words out of respect for the marginalized parties" Anyways, lets just agree to disagree, as somewhat bizarrely, my off topic remark derailed the thread apologies for that. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5057 Posts
It's definitely up for discussion how uncomfortable one should be in order for someone else to be considerate. "Drumpf" is quite a mild case here lol | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35171 Posts
On October 25 2024 20:01 Magic Powers wrote: The combination of "Drumpf" with oBlade's consistent defense of Trump doesn't match. That's all I'm gonna say. Right wing virtue signaling about "taking it back" despite Trump's opposition having largely moved on from it all on their own. Very weird. | ||
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oBlade
United States5919 Posts
On October 25 2024 19:25 Simberto wrote: No one denies that you have that freedom. And no one wants to take it from you. But it still makes you a dick. And this position it is so fundamentally consistent with conservative thought in general. "Sure, i could make life more comfortable for that other person by calling them by the pronouns they choose for themselves. This costs me absolutely nothing. But i have the freedom not to, so i won't, because why would i make life more comfortable for someone who isn't me?" Thanks for the politeness lesson but I challenge you to find an instance of me calling any poster a "dick" in this thread, let alone for something as removed as I, Person A calling Person B a dick because they didn't follow Person C's request about how to refer to Person D. Please in the future consider accommodating me by addressing me instead of dick as "Phallic Champion of the Americas and Europe." To show my willingness to meet you halfway you can abbreviate it as PCAE which is the same number of letters so it doesn't cost you anything (I have even saved you the indefinite article "a"). Better do this unless you're some kind of conservative MAGAT - right? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26322 Posts
On October 25 2024 19:25 Simberto wrote: No one denies that you have that freedom. And no one wants to take it from you. But it still makes you a dick. And this position it is so fundamentally consistent with conservative thought in general. "Sure, i could make life more comfortable for that other person by calling them by the pronouns they choose for themselves. This costs me absolutely nothing. But i have the freedom not to, so i won't, because why would i make life more comfortable for someone who isn't me?" There’s also, and quite-neglected by folks who make a virtue of ‘triggering’ people, many occasions where it’s not really due to how it makes me feel, but how it makes me feel about you. Language isn’t some neutral communication method, it comes with coding and associations that can vary from context to context too. Quite often it’s ’hm, you use phrases I’ve encountered many people who are idiots/assholes/hold certain positions do, are you like them?’ People generalise, it’s how us humans function, basically for biological necessity. So you end up with two very different takeaways if someone calls some particular word or phrase out, and one party disagrees and continues to use them. - ‘Sure owned that triggered liberal, trying to police my language!’ - ‘That person I assumed was an asshole/idiot, confirmed it.’ I used to rather like using the word ‘degenerate’, it has a pleasing ring to my ears. Somebody pointed out to me that ‘dude I don’t think this if you, but it’s mostly Neo-Nazi types who use that word as frequently and in the way you do.’ Hell even on this very forum GH admonished me for using the phrase ‘off the reservation’, whose genesis I was previously unaware of. Was quite happy not to use it when made aware. Of course, one has to draw all sorts of arbitrary lines somewhere, or we lose the ability to communicate at all, things could get completely ridiculous. For me: 1. Is it some reasonable request? 2. If not in a vacuum, do I care about the person and will do it anyway? My partner will not use the phrase ‘I appreciate that’, because it really annoys me. I don’t even have a working theory why this irks me, it makes zero sense whatsoever, but hey she’ll do it 3. If not 1/2, do I care about being liked, or taken seriously and won’t be if I don’t accede? If so I may | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45333 Posts
Former Model Alleges Trump Groped Her During Trump Tower Visit With Jeffrey Epstein https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/10/23/former-model-alleges-trump-groped-her-during-trump-tower-visit-with-jeffrey-epstein/ A former model has accused former President Donald Trump of groping her in 1993 during a visit she made to Trump Tower while in a relationship with late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, suggesting the interaction was part of a “twisted game,” in the latest accusation of sexual misconduct against the ex-president, which his spokesperson called “unequivocally false.” Stacey Williams, 56, alleged in an event held by Survivors for Kamala, a group of sexual assault survivors backing Vice President Kamala Harris in the upcoming election, that she met with Trump after Epstein suggested during a walk that they visit him at Trump Tower, according to video obtained and published by The Guardian. Williams accused Trump of touching her sexually after greeting her, grabbing her breasts, waists and buttocks in a moment she said she felt “deeply confused” about. Williams claimed Trump and Epstein were smiling at each other and continuing a conversation while she was groped, also alleging Epstein berated her after the visit to Trump Tower and asked her why she did not do anything about the incident. The former model said she questioned why Epstein was frustrated since he suggested visiting Trump and later felt the encounter was “some sick bet or game between the two of them.” ... Trump’s national press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, denied the accusations in an email to Forbes, saying they were “unequivocally false.” Leavitt said—without evidence—that Williams’ story was made up by the Harris campaign, calling it “shameful that Kamala Harris, who wants to be the first female President, would use a woman to spread baseless lies about her opponent.” ... Williams has shared parts of her accusations against Trump in social media posts in the past, The Guardian reported, noting the Zoom event Williams participated in also included actress Ashley Judd. The call also featured actress Sophia Bush, activist Tarana Burke and abortion rights activist Hadley Duvall, according to the Survivors for Kamala website. Williams is the latest woman of more than 20 who have accused Trump of sexual assault—all of which he has denied. In 2020, former model Amy Dorris alleged Trump sexually assaulted her at the 1997 U.S. Open. Williams’ accusations come more than a year after Trump was held civilly liable for sexually abusing writer E. Jean Carroll and ordered to pay millions in damages for both sexual abuse and defamation due to his denials of Carroll’s claims. | ||
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Razyda
901 Posts
On October 25 2024 18:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Thank you for posting an example! I understand you're not claiming that Trump will definitely say something like that. Could you please elaborate on why that hypothetical rant would make him lose voters? I feel like they'd read that and say that all Trump was really intending was to say the war and slavery are both bad. Thoughts? Funnily enough that would be what he is saying, topped with compulsive need of saying that whatever was done wrong he would do better. I do think however that topic of slavery is toxic in US and I can easily see how it would translate in lost votes. I also think your question illustrate the issue, you think of Trump voters as some monolithic cult and while this is probably true for many, it is false for more. Think about it, how many people voted for him in 2020? 70 million? if he had 70 million mindless fanatics, they would probably carry him to the White House, coronated him whether he wanted it or not and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45333 Posts
On October 25 2024 20:45 Razyda wrote: Funnily enough that would be what he is saying, topped with compulsive need of saying that whatever was done wrong he would do better. I do think however that topic of slavery is toxic in US and I can easily see how it would translate in lost votes. I also think your question illustrate the issue, you think of Trump voters as some monolithic cult and while this is probably true for many, it is false for more. Think about it, how many people voted for him in 2020? 70 million? if he had 70 million mindless fanatics, they would probably carry him to the White House, coronated him whether he wanted it or not and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. I'm not sure why you think that I think Trump supporters are monolithic (unless we tautologically categorize them all as merely Trump supporters, without delving into the specifics of how some voters think he's right about immigration, some voters think he's right about the economy, some voters think he's right about abortion rights, some voters think he's right about foreign policy, some voters think he's right about LGBTQ+ issues, some voters think he's right about election fraud, etc.). I recognize that they're not monolithic when it comes to political issues, although I also recognize that there's a level of religious zealotry and cult of personality surrounding Trump and many of his followers. Anyway, I don't think the monolith accusation is particularly relevant to why Trump may or may not lose voters if he brings up slavery. I'm not sure I agree with you that bringing up slavery is necessarily toxic, but I appreciate your willingness to engage on this purely hypothetical scenario. | ||
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Billyboy
1500 Posts
On October 25 2024 15:45 Uldridge wrote: Why are you calling him Drumpf all the time? It's triggering the fuck out of me lmao Triggering people is the point of it. If it was not after you had said this little thing bugs me mind stopping he would be like, sorry dude and stop. It is also a huge recruiting tool for MAGA, and really the only "skill" Trump has that he is really good at. There is a large section of people that love doing it. If you don't believe me just play any game online, especially ones where people are meant to work together like a MOBA and you will run into a shockingly high percentage of people who get their dopamine hit from pissing others off. Also, how many people with the power at school go straight to bullying. The triggering is a feature not a bug. Your post, while completely reasonable, is like a great victory. You likely made oBlade's day. So that is good I guess. | ||
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