|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On September 13 2024 01:56 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2024 20:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Harris and her team have stated that they're happy to have more debates against Trump. After the debate, Trump seemed uncertain as to whether he wanted to debate again. Trump was also asked by Fox News if Trump would be willing to debate Harris again on Fox News - where the deck would clearly be stacked in Trump's favor - and he said he wouldn't do it unless he got to specifically pick which Fox News people would moderate the debate. He's that desperate. Former President Donald Trump shot down the idea of Fox News anchors Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum moderating a presidential debate on the network, offering suggestions for three people he'd like to see instead.
"Well, I wouldn't want to have Martha and Bret; I would love to have somebody else other than Martha and Bret," Trump said on Fox & Friends the morning after his first debate with Vice President Kamala Harris, naming Sean Hannity, Jesse Watters and Laura Ingraham as moderators he'd prefer. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-next-debate-moderators-fox-sean-hannity-1952112 The ever-wandering goalposts of Drumpf "desperation" - immediately after a debate that we were told wouldn't happen because Trump was too scared - which happened after another debate we were told Drumpf was too scared of, even though he accepted almost all the terms the other side proposed - Drumpf is still scared because he *checks notes* said he'd debate on Fox and NBC next too. Like for people who pay attention to politics, to whom it's common knowledge that Republicans have their own disagreements, it isn't a surprise that the blood between Bret Baier and Drumpf hasn't healed. Similarly Drumpf doesn't like George Stephanopoulos, for obvious reasons, which is what happens when you're an actual public figure with a history of talking to people and relationships with media. That doesn't mean he... "specifically picked" ABC's moderators, does it? Working or even broadcasting for Fox doesn't automatically make you a MAGA plant as anyone who's heard of Chris Wallace shouldn't need to be told. Which makes the assumption that Fox is somehow stacked for Drumpf anything but certain. However, even if for the sake of argument it were, it seems fair enough to throw at least one Fox debate in after CNN, ABC, and NBC debates. CNN goes without saying, and ABC even to the left of Snopes by wasting the American people's valuable primetime with 8 year old quote mined hoaxes. Maybe Kamala can become confident enough to appear on stage with a moderator outside her sorority too. Things are picking up though as in addition to the endorsements from Kennedy and Gabbard, he's also picked up another Democrat in the wake of the debate, with Biden distancing himself from Kamala's campaign by putting on a MAGA hat in Pennsylvania. Perhaps he realized that since he isn't getting a 2nd term, his best chance to keep himself and his son out of jail is to endear himself to Drumpf's campaign to curry some favor. Awfully shrewd move if you ask me.
I think the reason why sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump came across as "desperate" to many people, and why many people weren't sure if the ABC debate would happen, is because sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump flip-flopped on whether or not he would be willing to ever debate Harris. In different interviews, sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump seemed to make unclear or inconsistent statements about future debates.
Back when Biden was still in the race, and slowly slipping in the polls, a few TLers made reasonable arguments that Biden might really push for debating sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump, out of desperation to try and salvage his chances of beating sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump. I think if sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump felt the same way - if he believed that he might lose ground to Harris - then it might be plausible for sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump to similarly change his mind from refusing to debate Harris to accepting the debate.
As far as the relationship between Bret Baier and sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump goes, I think you make a fair point about not wanting moderators who you don't like... but then sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump name-dropped three specific moderators, and I interpreted that as an unwillingness to debate on Fox News unless Fox News granted those specific moderators that Trump desired... which would likely be incredibly biased and not even consider Harris's perspective or who would actually be reasonably objective as a moderator. I think that sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump wants to stack the deck against Harris even more so than merely accepting any Fox News debate, which would already be extremely in his favor.
Compared to Harris, the endorsements that sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump has received are pretty lame and inconsequential. Harris has far more Republicans leaving sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump to support her, plus huge celebrities who can actually galvanize their communities (e.g., Taylor Swift). RFK Jr. is pretty much a joke - he's more likely to steal and eat people's cats than illegal immigrants are - and the best thing about Tulsi Gabbard is how poorly she prepared sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump for his debate against Harris. And, obviously, Biden is not a supporter of sexual-assaulter-and-convicted-felon-and-sexist-and-racist-and-fascist Donald Trump, regardless of the MAGA hat joke.
|
On September 13 2024 00:49 Sermokala wrote:
Its really werid to try and "um actually" greedflation not being a real thing and a campaign prop when you have one of the candidates screaming that black people are eating dogs and cats. A bunch of the scaremongering about legal immigrants coming into Springfield is about the increased strain on public resources and housing when the population of the town hasn't increased that significantly. A larger workforce of young poor people will increase public revenue far more than the older aging population that consumes significantly more public resources.
Corporations going after perpetual growth is a real thing, greedflation is the buzzword to turn it into a campaign issue. I don't see the value in trying to scaremonger one candidate wanting to lower costs when they're both claiming that they're going to do things to lower costs. Trying to conflate that with repackaging the same racist lies people have been using against asian people in order to fear monger against black and brown people just speaks to how you value rich people vs regular human beings.
DPB made a comment about inflation going down so I said we should celebrate that corporations have decided to stop being greedy. I have no idea what that has to do with conflating what Trump said about immigrants other than you being incapable to realize more than one topic can be discussed at a time in this thread and one has nothing to do with the other.
But at least we get the hilarious gem that 20,000 Haitian immigrants into a town of 60,000 is not a significant population increase according to you  How far can you get your head into the sand? Next you will tell us of the Honduran fentanyl dealers that it’s great to have young entrepreneurs contributing to the local economy.
|
On September 13 2024 03:17 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 00:49 Sermokala wrote:
Its really werid to try and "um actually" greedflation not being a real thing and a campaign prop when you have one of the candidates screaming that black people are eating dogs and cats. A bunch of the scaremongering about legal immigrants coming into Springfield is about the increased strain on public resources and housing when the population of the town hasn't increased that significantly. A larger workforce of young poor people will increase public revenue far more than the older aging population that consumes significantly more public resources.
Corporations going after perpetual growth is a real thing, greedflation is the buzzword to turn it into a campaign issue. I don't see the value in trying to scaremonger one candidate wanting to lower costs when they're both claiming that they're going to do things to lower costs. Trying to conflate that with repackaging the same racist lies people have been using against asian people in order to fear monger against black and brown people just speaks to how you value rich people vs regular human beings. DPB made a comment about inflation going down so I said we should celebrate that corporations have decided to stop being greedy. I have no idea what that has to do with conflating what Trump said about immigrants other than you being incapable to realize more than one topic can be discussed at a time in this thread and one has nothing to do with the other. But at least we get the hilarious gem that 20,000 Haitian immigrants into a town of 60,000 is not a significant population increase according to you How far can you get your head into the sand? Next you will tell us of the Honduran fentanyl dealers that it’s great to have young entrepreneurs contributing to the local economy.
Man BJ you really got to start reading your own posts. If one topic can be discussed and one can have nothing to do with the other than why are you bringing up democrats trying to pin inflation on corperations wanting more profit when someone else is talking about inflation going down?
Its bizzare to see you double down that you don't exist in a facts based universe and don't read other peoples posts. A simple google search on the population of springfield over time would educate you on what I said but why bother useing facts when we can base our beliefs on memes? Can you explain when Springfields population went up by twenty thousand people? Can you explain what is inehrently wrong about a town having people living in it and working in it that doens't make them less valuable based on the color of their skin or where they came from? If you're getting your information on what to care about from a group called the blood tribe you need to start doing self reflection.
|
Northern Ireland25245 Posts
As a Simpson’s fanatic I’m trying to resist making various references. At least it’s not yellow people migrating amirite? What State is Springfield located in anyway?
I do think these are potentially legitimate concerns mind, migration isn’t some monolith that affects every locale in the same manner. Area A may benefit immensely from an influx of people, area B may see overstretched local resources stretched yet further.
I haven’t researched Springfield meself so can’t really comment on this specific example, but it’s long been an element of the immigration debate that frustrates me.
|
CBS said 15,000 immigrants have settled there since 2020 (important year because Americans know that was the last census which happens once a decade).
If the population was steady is your claim - which needs its own hard evidence - then you're saying the locals were literally replaced. Manufacturing jobs are decreasing so the claim they needed to import workers rings blatantly corporatist.
Did Springfield vote to import a community? If not, what US code gives the federal government the right to transplant a community into the municipality of any state in the Union?
|
On September 13 2024 04:22 oBlade wrote:
CBS said 15,000 immigrants have settled there since 2020 (important year because Americans know that was the last census which happens once a decade).
If the population was steady is your claim - which needs its own hard evidence - then you're saying the locals were literally replaced. Manufacturing jobs are decreasing so the claim they needed to import workers rings blatantly corporatist.
Did Springfield vote to import a community? If not, what US code gives the federal government the right to transplant a community into the municipality of any state in the Union? Springfield Ohio? a city that 5 seconds on google says has a declining population. Despite your claims that 15k immigrants were 'dumped' there?
Sounds like the only reason the city still exists is immigration and perhaps immigrants are moving their because the incredibly rapidly declining native population means that businesses are indeed looking for employees there.
And what is the problem here?
That Trump said they are eating pets?
That Immigrants are going to where jobs are?
Seriously? thats the hill your going to fight on today? Immigrants moving into a declining town and that somehow being the end of the world?
|
|
|
On September 13 2024 04:44 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 04:22 oBlade wrote:
CBS said 15,000 immigrants have settled there since 2020 (important year because Americans know that was the last census which happens once a decade).
If the population was steady is your claim - which needs its own hard evidence - then you're saying the locals were literally replaced. Manufacturing jobs are decreasing so the claim they needed to import workers rings blatantly corporatist.
Did Springfield vote to import a community? If not, what US code gives the federal government the right to transplant a community into the municipality of any state in the Union? Springfield Ohio? a city that 5 seconds on google says has a declining population. Despite your claims that 15k immigrants were 'dumped' there? Sounds like the only reason the city still exists is immigration and perhaps immigrants are moving their because the incredibly rapidly declining native population means that businesses are indeed looking for employees there. And what is the problem here? That Trump said they are eating pets? That Immigrants are going to where jobs are? Seriously? thats the hill your going to fight on today? Immigrants moving into a declining town and that somehow being the end of the world?
You can use google and find 1,000 different sources that corroborate oBlade’s 15,000 number. You’re likely citing numbers from the 2020 census and projections thereafter which is important to note because the immigrants didn’t arrive until after the 2020 election.
|
On September 13 2024 05:33 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 04:44 Gorsameth wrote:On September 13 2024 04:22 oBlade wrote:
CBS said 15,000 immigrants have settled there since 2020 (important year because Americans know that was the last census which happens once a decade).
If the population was steady is your claim - which needs its own hard evidence - then you're saying the locals were literally replaced. Manufacturing jobs are decreasing so the claim they needed to import workers rings blatantly corporatist.
Did Springfield vote to import a community? If not, what US code gives the federal government the right to transplant a community into the municipality of any state in the Union? Springfield Ohio? a city that 5 seconds on google says has a declining population. Despite your claims that 15k immigrants were 'dumped' there? Sounds like the only reason the city still exists is immigration and perhaps immigrants are moving their because the incredibly rapidly declining native population means that businesses are indeed looking for employees there. And what is the problem here? That Trump said they are eating pets? That Immigrants are going to where jobs are? Seriously? thats the hill your going to fight on today? Immigrants moving into a declining town and that somehow being the end of the world? You can use google and find 1,000 different sources that corroborate oBlade’s 15,000 number. You’re likely citing numbers from the 2020 census and projections thereafter which is important to note because the immigrants didn’t arrive until after the 2020 election. So that would be a yes to dying on a stupid hill then, you do you.
I'm sure Trump and his follow Republicans are an incredibly trustworhy source on this issue.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
On September 13 2024 05:40 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 05:33 BlackJack wrote:On September 13 2024 04:44 Gorsameth wrote:On September 13 2024 04:22 oBlade wrote:
CBS said 15,000 immigrants have settled there since 2020 (important year because Americans know that was the last census which happens once a decade).
If the population was steady is your claim - which needs its own hard evidence - then you're saying the locals were literally replaced. Manufacturing jobs are decreasing so the claim they needed to import workers rings blatantly corporatist.
Did Springfield vote to import a community? If not, what US code gives the federal government the right to transplant a community into the municipality of any state in the Union? Springfield Ohio? a city that 5 seconds on google says has a declining population. Despite your claims that 15k immigrants were 'dumped' there? Sounds like the only reason the city still exists is immigration and perhaps immigrants are moving their because the incredibly rapidly declining native population means that businesses are indeed looking for employees there. And what is the problem here? That Trump said they are eating pets? That Immigrants are going to where jobs are? Seriously? thats the hill your going to fight on today? Immigrants moving into a declining town and that somehow being the end of the world? You can use google and find 1,000 different sources that corroborate oBlade’s 15,000 number. You’re likely citing numbers from the 2020 census and projections thereafter which is important to note because the immigrants didn’t arrive until after the 2020 election. So that would be a yes to dying on a stupid hill then, you do you. I'm sure Trump and his follow Republicans are an incredibly trustworhy source on this issue. + Show Spoiler +
Jesus.. do I really have to spell this out.
Just how many Haitians have arrived here remains unclear. Estimated at as many as 20,000 in the letter Vance read to Powell, city officials have since cut that to between 12,000 and 15,000 based on driver's license and state identification data.
Also in the Reuters article
A recent surge in immigration has been too fast and recent to be captured yet in population estimates.
Again, there are 1,000 different sources corroborating that 15,000~ Hatian immigrants have arrived over a short period. You can't just stick your head in the sand and say "nuh-uh"
|
United States10154 Posts
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here?
|
On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here?
Say what you want about Trump, all he needs to do is open his mouth and say some words and the whole fucking western world is talking about it for days.
|
It's the age old tactic of blowing something completely out of proportion (crime), attaching it to something unrelated (migration), equating the two and concluding that both are wrong.
|
On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here?
We're talking about it because Serm somehow thought it was connected to a discussion on inflation and then it carried on because I couldn't let the ridiculous hot takes go that either the immigration didn't happen at all because 2020 census numbers show the population steady or if it did happen then there's no issue with a town growing 25% in a few short years.
The city itself says it's resources are overwhelmed, benefits rolls have increased significantly, housing costs have increased significantly, and the mayor has been appealing to the state and federal government for help for the strained police, healthcare and schools. Whether you saw some business owners that me be happy with the influx of cheap labor doesn't mean it's all roses and sunshine for everybody.
|
On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here?
They are black.
|
On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here?
Careful, you're attacking the unspoken assumption that everyone makes when they say immigration is inherently a bad thing. There's no possible way that immigrants could be good, hard working people who become a valuable part of their community. That first requires you to consider an immigrant as a human being.
|
On September 13 2024 06:46 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here? Careful, you're attacking the unspoken assumption that everyone makes when they say immigration is inherently a bad thing. There's no possible way that immigrants could be good, hard working people who become a valuable part of their community. That first requires you to consider an immigrant as a human being.
"Immigration is inherently a bad thing" Same old tired strawmans
|
On September 13 2024 06:40 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here? They are black.
Right because a town of 60,000 would totally have no problem absorbing 15,000 immigrants if they just happened to be another color, right?
People that make this argument will, with their next breath, talk about how awful gentrification is and it's terrible when white people move into historically black neighborhoods like harlem and drive up and price of housing and displace current residents and change the character of the neighborhood.
15,000 Hatian immigrants moving into Springfield Ohio = fantastic
Some white hipsters buying houses in Harlem = terrible
Surprise, there's one group of people where skin color is of paramount importance to how they feel about things. It's the same group of people that's always obsessing over skin color.
|
On September 13 2024 07:32 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 06:40 Velr wrote:On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here? They are black. Right because a town of 60,000 would totally have no problem absorbing 15,000 immigrants if they just happened to be another color, right? People that make this argument will, with their next breath, talk about how awful gentrification is and it's terrible when white people move into historically black neighborhoods like harlem and drive up and price of housing and displace current residents and change the character of the neighborhood. 15,000 Hatian immigrants moving into Springfield Ohio = fantastic Some white hipsters buying houses in Harlem = terrible Surprise, there's one group of people where skin color is of paramount importance to how they feel about things. It's the same group of people that's always obsessing over skin color.
The KKK? White nationalists? People who see brown and black workers as nothing more than unqualified diversity hires? (Judging people based on race is obviously not just a liberal/left-wing thing.)
|
On September 13 2024 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 07:32 BlackJack wrote:On September 13 2024 06:40 Velr wrote:On September 13 2024 05:51 FlaShFTW wrote:
I'm still confused how this is a serious issue. News have come out that the business owners there are actually very happy about the high immigration into the area because it keeps their businesses open and the immigrants are hard workers. So what's the point or issue here? They are black. Right because a town of 60,000 would totally have no problem absorbing 15,000 immigrants if they just happened to be another color, right? People that make this argument will, with their next breath, talk about how awful gentrification is and it's terrible when white people move into historically black neighborhoods like harlem and drive up and price of housing and displace current residents and change the character of the neighborhood. 15,000 Hatian immigrants moving into Springfield Ohio = fantastic Some white hipsters buying houses in Harlem = terrible Surprise, there's one group of people where skin color is of paramount importance to how they feel about things. It's the same group of people that's always obsessing over skin color. The KKK? White nationalists? People who see brown and black workers as nothing more than unqualified diversity hires? (Judging people based on race is obviously not just a liberal/left-wing thing.)
Fair point. I stand corrected. There are two groups of people where race is of paramount importance to how they feel about an issue. Far-right hate groups and mainstream liberals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
