EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4334
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Falling
Canada11384 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2697 Posts
On August 08 2024 14:28 oBlade wrote: There is nothing wrong with Walz's service, except arguably the strategic dodging of deployment. However, Vance is not the one that has a problem with his service. Walz is the one that has a problem with his own service, because he repeatedly lied about it in the intervening 20 years. Nobody is saying Walz's service wasn't good enough except Walz himself. Other people pointed this out first, other veterans, people he served with, and Vance joined in delivering the message, because a stolen valor accusation from actual servicemembers is social kryptonite. The issue is... the lying. Not the service that was honorable up until the point he wasn't. Stolen valor is not just a crime, it's a despicable act of deception. There is no "oh he was in for 20 years so he gets to embellish a little." He specifically said he was in war, he wasn't in war. He said he was the highest ranking enlisted person ever in Congress - he wasn't. He said he was in Operation Enduring Freedom in Iraq. Operation Enduring Freedom wasn't in Iraq, and he wasn't in either. Okay. On September 18th, 2001, he reupped for 6 more years. In 2004 he told The Atlantic he was deployed overseas in "Operation Enduring Freedom." He was in Italy for 6 months. Then he protested Bush, and in an act of defiance, asked if they really wanted to arrest "a command sergeant major who'd just returned from fighting the war on terrorism." (At that time, the "command sergeant major" part may have at least been true. But there was no fighting, and no war on terrorism, in Europe, in 2004.) Like just because you're doing something at the same time there's a war, that doesn't make you part of the war. The Pentagon's janitors in 2004 were not deployed to a war zone in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. In March 2005, he sent out a press release saying he was running for Congress despite the fact that he could get deployed overseas. In May 2005, he retired. In July 2005, his unit got the official notice they were deploying. So he served for as you say, 288 months, and left 2 months before possibly having to fight. That doesn't sound super honorable. Tom Behrends, the man who replaced him in his position, said he quit and ran. As have others from his unit. By the way, for my edification, can you retire right after you get an order to deploy you don't like, is that allowed, or what happens? Why didn't he stay an extra 2 months and fill out that simple paperwork that you allege is all there was to it? Get a higher pay grade and everything right? Or are you conflating coursework that you read in a Newsweek article with paperwork intentionally or not? He didn't merely forget to fill out some form or whatever is in your head, he made a commitment and then shirked his responsibilities. Which is fine as long as you don't then go around campaigning as the highest ranked enlisted soldier who served abroad in a war fighting in Operation Enduring Freedom in Iraq or possibly Italy. Not knowing shit about Walz I quickly checked wikipedia. Basically nothing you say is true. His service in Italy was in support for Enduring Freedom. Isn't like 9/10 US army service members support personnel? Is there a difference being in a support role inside a country or outside it? Does only frontline service count? I don't get this part at all. It's also obvious why he quit when he did. He filed for running for office in Feb 2005. If he had completed his training for Sergeants Major he would have had to serve an additional 2 years. He had obviously made the decision to run seriously for congress in mid 2005 and realised he couldn't do both. He also held the rank he said he did, he just got demoted on a technicality he signed up for which is fair. If Walz did 24 years for "stolen valor" then Vance 100 % fucks couches. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10831 Posts
On August 08 2024 01:51 GreenHorizons wrote: Just so I understand, is the accusation that socialism is just role playing, or that I'm not a socialist? Are you running for office? Are you doing something else that would actively further your cause? Besides being online or around a table with people that agree with you anyway, talking about how the system is doomed and so on or actively helping/supoorting a candidate with a snowballs chance in hell to get anything done? Are you actively supporting any realistic short to midterm goals that move the needle in the direction you wish? If so, what are your actual policiy proposals/ideas? I don't need a fully fletched out plan but something more than plain slogans like "abolish the police", "stop the genozide" and general "murica bad". Just something realistic, achievable that doesn't callf or a total redesign of the US political system or reeducation of 90%+ of the population. Because else your just a doomer that is fantasizing about the great workers revolution in your head. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1104 Posts
This is just war... which can be..at any time..stopped by hamas fighters laying down their weapons - but you can't protest them because they will shoot you or decapitate your baby and still cry "victim victim" because that's their way. I am really annoyed by your tankie shit GreenHorizons. Here in germany the same non-palestinian left wing wannabe interlectual people who wave Palestinian flags and spew borderline antisemitic paroles also think that Putin is just missunderstood or ukraine is actually full of nazis that need and deserve to be killed, while NATO needs to move back to portugal and stop threaten poor little russia. Yet in #PrideMonth they fail to mention that being gay in russia is illegal, and they don't do pride parades in muslim-migrant ethno-ghettos here in germany. That's when they go to the whitebread uptown people - who they hate during the climate protest and palestine protest season of the year - but actually don't get beaten up. And what really grinds my gears is, that current gen has concluded those ideas from tiktok, and it's just a lame echo of same anti-establishment bla bla from 2 generations prior. Old white people that were annoyed by their conservative money driven ex-nazi parents (in germany) and so they needed to offend them by calling themselves socialists pro palestine atheist vegans. Be original just once. Or realistic. Or pragmatic. People actually were protesting war mongering GW Bush that installed heavy weaponary in the baltics and poland, started 2 wars with net zero results, but repeating kremlin and mullah death cult rhetoric just becauses it's dissonant to people you don't like isn't factual based. What did help, was the banks crashing and tax cuts for billionaires no longer allowing doing useless wars but instead enriching the rich so richly that there isn't even more moneys left for the military industrial complex to have. In the end all the populist bullshit doesn't work, and it's just a whole lot of noise keeping people from finding good solutions. You don't have to push for socialism..just for 20 days mandatory paid leave and $20 minimum wage. | ||
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Slydie
1929 Posts
On August 08 2024 13:04 GreenHorizons wrote: So Harris encountered her first anti-genocide protesters and promptly threatened them with Trump if they didn't shut up about opposing genocide. Feels a little early to be pulling that. Didn't think she'd immediately go to being even more dismissive than Biden's been of these protesters. She is right. I don't think that is helping their case. Palestine is a divisive subject on the center-left, but now it is time to stay united to keep Trump out of the White House. Kamala can be pushed if she is elected. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4740 Posts
Now I am neither an American nor is Palastine that important to me but from this side of Atlantic voting Democrat doesnt look like its going to solve anything regarding Palestine-Isreal debacle. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23565 Posts
On August 08 2024 16:20 Falling wrote: How exactly? Protestors are not there to have a conversation on what Harris' policies on the Middle East will be. (Which apparently Harris did have a conversation with voters concerned about Gaza prior to the event.) The protestors are there to chant the same handful of slogans at the Democrat rally and keep chanting. That's what this kind of interruption is. The protestors aren't nuanced and no nuanced response is possible with them either. Before or after when they aren't in full chant mode, then something useful can be discussed. She could have not been so disdainfully dismissive. You mentioned the "lock him up" chants. She's much more jovial and reassuring, basically saying "yes he will be locked up, by the courts" in response to them. She could say essentially the same thing about the ICJ and ICC and the genocide against Palestinians, but the Democrat party is still pretending it doesn't know whether Israel is violating international laws or not and insisting the US (and by extension Israel) isn't accountable to them anyway. Seemingly (wilfully) oblivious to how that devastatingly undermines their efforts for Ukraine. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
This was back in January. The accusers certainly aren't growing any smaller in numbers. https://truthout.org/articles/half-of-young-people-say-israel-is-committing-genocide-despite-strong-media-bias/ People won't forget. Kamala has to address it or she risks losing the election for preventable reasons. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1104 Posts
He moved the US Embassy to isreal to Jerusalem, basicly a big fucking plant of a flag right in the most disputed city. "THIS IS NOW THE CAPITAL DEUS IO VULT" He is a good friend to the absolute asshole Netanyahu, who sabotages every attempt on peace on both sides, because he needs the conflict to cosplay as the strong man to stay out of prison (Wow, what a coincidence?!) And his evangelical nutjobs believe in the second coming of christ - once palestine is "cleansed" of muslims and returned to the jews. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism If you want a genocide, vote for a netanyahu/trump colab.... If trump was president' he'd drob a MOAB on Gaza for OCT 7..... What the fuck. Just because the conflict exploded while Biden is president, it doesn't mean that the democrats aren't aware of all the BS Israel is pulling, but of your two parties - they are the one that usually is more interested in restricting Israel's retaliation plans. Example: Before Trump/Netanyahu.. US managed to talk Israel out of bulldozering the homes of the families of terrorists, because it doesn't help. With Trump, Netanyahu returned to bulldozering and allowing settlers to take more land.. which was a promise of Trump to the Christian Zionist fractions of your religions nutjobs. Voting GOP to restrain Israel.. LOL. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1057 Posts
On August 08 2024 18:08 Silvanel wrote: If I was a single issue voter and that issue was Palestine's plight I would vote for Trump. Now he might be saying some horrible things but he is also very volatile and in bed with far-right so actual chances of him doing something against Isreal intrests are much higher than in case of Democrats. Now I am neither an American nor is Palastine that important to me but from this side of Atlantic voting Democrat doesnt look like its going to solve anything regarding Palestine-Isreal debacle. You are aware of US evangelicals and their agenda? My take is that if Trump would have been president during and after the terror attack, Gaza wouldn't exist anymore. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4740 Posts
Edit: Actually I think sending American troops into Gaza would be a great idea. It would certainly be better for Palestinians, given different rules of engagment and that American soldiers dont actually hate Palestinians... | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23565 Posts
On August 08 2024 17:48 Velr wrote: Are you doing something else that would actively further your cause? Yes. I'm in community with a lot more socialists today than I was in 2016, and plenty of them weren't socialists when I met them. Can't take credit for all of them, but many have shown appreciation for my role in that journey. Through the methods I recently outlined (among others), I've helped establish relationships with local unions, charities, businesses, clubs, community centers, women's shelters, etc. that have amplified my (and my growing cadre of comrades) ability to help people in need. I've also helped build relationships outside of my local area that have assisted us in supporting various aligned efforts across the country and world. It's not an exhaustive list, nor do I want to be braggadocious, it's just what being a socialist is. I don't expect anything from anyone in return for helping them, but I've found very little in life (outside of family stuff) more fulfilling than a sincere thank you from someone I helped out of a tight spot. Especially when I was only able to do it because of my comrades and the work we've done together to that point. When someone we helped in that way is able to pay it forward (and does so of their own volition) is one of those few things that tops it. It's part of why the baseless accusations about what we're doing being "imaginary" or "role playing" don't really bother me (at least beyond their wilfully oblivious obnoxiousness debasing the discussion generally). I regularly see the impact of the work my comrades and I do in the lives of the people around me and deal with far more hostile people in that work. Trolly shitposts maligning us and our work just lowers my opinion of the people making them more than anything else. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1104 Posts
Trump and protestesters just talk so much crap because they aren't the ones in charge right now. Just like trump solved the middle east in 2016 when sending Jared to handle everything.. oh wait he didn'tn, he just made it worse. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 08 2024 19:15 KT_Elwood wrote: Don't you understand that Israel might be the closest of all military allies to the US? The military cooperation isn't just "giving up weapons for free"..it's a deal to share the most advanced tech. Trump and protestesters just talk so much crap because they aren't the ones in charge right now. Just like trump solved the middle east in 2016 when sending Jared to handle everything.. oh wait he didn'tn, he just made it worse. It’s pretty one-sided as alliances go let’s be real | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45209 Posts
On August 08 2024 18:08 Silvanel wrote: If I was a single issue voter and that issue was Palestine's plight I would vote for Trump. Now he might be saying some horrible things but he is also very volatile and in bed with far-right so actual chances of him doing something against Isreal intrests are much higher than in case of Democrats. Now I am neither an American nor is Palastine that important to me but from this side of Atlantic voting Democrat doesnt look like its going to solve anything regarding Palestine-Isreal debacle. You would vote for Trump if you sided with Israel's attack on Palestinians, not if you empathized with Palestinians. Trump wants Israel to blow Palestinians off the face of the Earth, and is happy to aggressively help that happen even faster than the current pace. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1104 Posts
"I am not happy with the current politician handling XY, so I vote Opposite!" But opposite is worse? "Don't care, I only deal in absolutes, and the enemy of my enemy must be my friend!" | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4740 Posts
On August 08 2024 19:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: You would vote for Trump if you sided with Israel's attack on Palestinians, not if you empathized with Palestinians. Trump wants Israel to blow Palestinians off the face of the Earth, and is happy to aggressively help that happen even faster than the current pace. I repeat the question: what would Trump actually do, that would be worse than what is happaning right now? | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22037 Posts
On August 08 2024 20:15 Silvanel wrote: Israel is walking a tightrope of how much they can get away with, If they are to aggressive in 'cleansing' Palestinians the pressure increases on the US to push back. I repeat the question: what would Trump actually do, that would be worse than what is happaning right now? We saw this with Rafah where the Biden administration kept Israel from moving in for a long time while refugees were relocating. With Trump in the WH Netanyahu can most likely get away with a lot more then under Kamala, I highly doubt he would have delayed the attack on Rafah and the massive amount of refugees there, thus resulting in many more civilian casualties. Now ofc those of us who opposite the excess of Israel's attack aren't happy with how little Biden has done, but Trump would objectively be worse. (and I would expect Kamala to be more critical then Biden, tho not remotely as much as I would like) | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1104 Posts
I really think that progressive candidates could push for a better world. MedicAid and stuff. And not being comicly evil - in real life. Like cutting Lunch-Breaks from "Child-Workers", removing mandatory water and cooldown breaks for outside workers during summertime, allowing more child work in meatplants, boosting cost of education because it's such a nice business... and so on. | ||
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