EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 381
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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brian
United States9610 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10606 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22742 Posts
On June 30 2018 01:35 JimmiC wrote: My boss is from Venezuala, he came because of the violence, corruption and he will never go go back even to visit. I think you can reasonably say leadership there has done a terrible job and the country is in a much worse state then it was before them. They also slowly changed a democracy into a dictatorship. Anything about Trump is this line is impossible to know because he hasn't been around long enough. The comparison is not a good one. The secondhand story of someone (probably from a class of people socialism doesn't favor) weighed against the significant improvements in the quality of life for millions doesn't add up to much. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9353 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:16 Velr wrote: I really would like xDaunt to explain the massive crysis in europe and telling us what exactly is going on better in the US. Greece is on the ropes? Yes, so are some american states. There are Ghettos in some cities? Well, the US coined that term... The crisis is invisible to everyone in Europe. Its so huge you can only see it from the American right wing. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15401 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:16 Velr wrote: I really would like xDaunt to explain the massive crysis in europe and telling us what exactly is going on better in the US. Greece is on the ropes? Yes, so are some american states. There are Ghettos in some cities? Well, the US coined that term... It's the same kind of thinking as poor whites feeling like "temporarily embarrassed millionaires". Since the US is fundamentally amazing and incredible, our ghettos are more so small defects, which are statistically guaranteed. If you have something so big, of course there will be cracks here and there. Cracks that, by the way, are created because of society drifting away from traditional views of the family unit. Whereas Europe is, at its core, worse than the US and the problems in Europe are systematically caused by Europe itself. It's a mentally lazy perspective. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9108 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:22 Jockmcplop wrote: The crisis is invisible to everyone in Europe. Its so huge you can only see it from the American right wing. The late star of the UK politics thread bardtown would disagree. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9353 Posts
Please watch this video, its 20 minutes but its very illuminating: | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Recognizing that there is a problem does not necessarily mean one denounces migrants. It just means there is a problem. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22742 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:31 On_Slaught wrote: I am far from being on xDaunts side, but lets not ignore what is obviously an EU crisis. Migration is literally the number one issue being discussed at the EU summit this week, even overriding Brexit. Entire political parties have risen and fallen in recent years on the back of the migrant crisis. There are countless stories about the impacts of immigration on a micro and macro level across Europe. It is a major issue which is far from being fixed. Recognizing that there is a problem does not necessarily mean one denounces migrants. It just means there is a problem. It's not as if the west has anything to do with the conflicts the people are fleeing from right? That's the problem. That the people are painted as the problem rather than the western nations, systems, and circumstances that got them there. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:28 Sent. wrote: The late star of the UK politics thread bardtown would disagree. Good old Bardtown. I remember the sort of fun discussion when we talked about governments not developing "organically" and got super into the weeds about what recent history was. Good times. But he had a less than flattering view on Muslims that always seemed to show itself. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote: It's not as if the west has anything to do with the conflicts the people are fleeing from right? That's the problem. That the people are painted as the problem rather than the western nations, systems, and circumstances that got them there. Recognizing that a problem exists is not mutually exclusive with assigning responsibility. Doesn't change the fact that something needs to be done in Europe as it needs to be done here. The specifics is where the fight should be, not whether there is a problem. Especially when the problem is so self evident. Worth noting that addressing border and integration issues is only half the equation. Definitely needs to be time spent considering how to diminish peoples need to flee their homelands. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9353 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:44 On_Slaught wrote: Recognizing that a problem exists is not mutually exclusive with assigning responsibility. Doesn't change the fact that something needs to be done in Europe as it needs to be done here. The specifics is where the fight should be, not whether there is a problem. Especially when the problem is so self evident. Worth noting that addressing border and integration issues is only half the equation. Definitely needs to be time spent considering how to diminish peoples need to flee their homelands. the problem is being blown well out of proportion by people with ideological need to hate immigrants. This is the reason that political parties have risen and fallen on the issue. There are also issues with culture clashing which can be a problem, but many of the issues that are commonly associated with immigrants are based entirely on right wing bullshit propaganda. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10606 Posts
Most of the "immigration" problems people actually talk about are coming from non existant immigration policy during the 60/70/80ies. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:44 On_Slaught wrote: Recognizing that a problem exists is not mutually exclusive with assigning responsibility. Doesn't change the fact that something needs to be done there as it needs to be done here. The specifics is where the fight should be, not whether there is a problem. Especially when the problem is so self evident. Worth noting that addressing border and integration issues is only half the equation. Definitely needs to be time spent considering how to diminish peoples need to flee their homelands. That is a hard nut to crack, especially when it is due to violence in their country. We would need to send a peace keeping force down there and then we have a peace keeping force in a violent country. A refugee crisis can only really be managed, not stopped. One thing that would help is to find an effective way to slap down politicians that run on promising to stop the refugees from coming to the country. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22742 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:48 Plansix wrote: That is a hard nut to crack, especially when it is due to violence in their country. We would need to send a peace keeping force down there and then we have a peace keeping force in a violent country. A refugee crisis can only really be managed, not stopped. One thing that would help is to find an effective way to slap down politicians that run on promising to stop the refugees from coming to the country. lol. Pretty sure the US (and various other European countries) already has forces in those countries and is contributing significantly to the instability in the interest of replacing governments with ones more subservient to US interests. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:48 Plansix wrote: That is a hard nut to crack, especially when it is due to violence in their country. We would need to send a peace keeping force down there and then we have a peace keeping force in a violent country. A refugee crisis can only really be managed, not stopped. One thing that would help is to find an effective way to slap down politicians that run on promising to stop the refugees from coming to the country. I agree this half is much harder. One step, though, is to not make things worse by destabilizing regions. Cant unring the bell but we can minimize this going forward. @others, that some people take a problem and use it to stir fear is demagogue/populist 101. That should be countered where possible. Our reaction shouldn't be to ignore the problem outright simply because the other side is blowing it out of proportion, though. That's all I'm trying to make clear. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22742 Posts
On June 30 2018 02:52 JimmiC wrote: It is more then a secondhand story. It is reality, all classes are suffering. Venezuela is having huge issues, violence is insane, economy is crumbling. There once solid heath care system is barely functional. If you are going to use a country as an example 2018 Venezuela is not the one I would pick. I'm surprised you would talk about it the way you have without some basic knowledge. "Hyperinflation in Nicolas Maduro’s socialist paradise is now running at 43,378 percent. It takes a full fifth of a minimum-wage worker’s monthly salary just to buy a cup of coffee in a cafe, Bloomberg reports. And it’s getting worse: If inflation continues as it has during the last three months, the rate would hit 482,153 percent. That’s a fast track to economic Armageddon" https://nypost.com/2018/02/22/venezuelans-are-starving-amid-economic-crisis-food-shortages/ https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article207281029.html https://www.brookings.edu/research/venezuela-breaks-down-in-violence/ http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-venezuela-refugees-20171019-htmlstory.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Venezuela https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/venezuelas-economy-is-collapsing-and-violence-is-rampant-its-solution-woo-tourists/2018/01/12/56363398-f492-11e7-9af7-a50bc3300042_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e978d335c949 https://www.focal.ca/en/publications/focalpoint/370-december-2010-natasha-morales-e-en https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-economy-trucks-widerimage/mad-max-violence-stalks-venezuelas-lawless-roads-idUSKBN1FT1G9 Of course western capitalist propaganda is going to tell you it's terrible and totally unrelated to their opposition to US domination. On June 30 2018 02:53 On_Slaught wrote: I agree this half is much harder. One step, though, is to not make things worse by destabilizing regions. Cant unring the bell but we can minimize this going forward. @others, that some people take a problem and use it to stir fear is demagogue/populist 101. That should be countered where possible. Our reaction shouldn't be to ignore the problem outright simply because the other side is blowing it out of proportion, though. That's all I'm trying to make clear. My point was that it's dangerous when it's a small minority of people who even recognize what the problems are, while the majority is easily manipulated into believing it's the victims faults. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10606 Posts
His general idea wasn't bad, BUT by overtaking all the oil industry "hard" he lost all the knowledge to get the actual Oil... It was a matter of time until shit goes down the drain. Not because of the general policy but because of the utter disregard for anything positive capitalist exploitation brought (knowledge). | ||
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