EPTEdit: On more personal note - I live 50km away from "Biggest polluter in EU" (by absolute values not by efficiency) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bełchatów_Power_Station. I have just read they plan to decomission it by 2036-2038. I kinda wonder what will happen to people there as entire town of Bełchatów is 100% dependant on mine and power station.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3259
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4768 Posts
Edit: On more personal note - I live 50km away from "Biggest polluter in EU" (by absolute values not by efficiency) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bełchatów_Power_Station. I have just read they plan to decomission it by 2036-2038. I kinda wonder what will happen to people there as entire town of Bełchatów is 100% dependant on mine and power station. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On July 08 2021 18:17 Silvanel wrote: Well in no small part it is due to anti-nuclear propaganda and fearmongering. Some people and organization put a lot of resources in scaring people of atom. While anti-coal propaganda is both more recent and concentrated on damage to environment rather than harm it is doing to people. Edit: On more personal note - I live 50km away from "Biggest polluter in EU" (by absolute values not by efficiency) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bełchatów_Power_Station. I have just read they plan to decomission it by 2036-2038. I kinda wonder what will happen to people there as entire town of Bełchatów is 100% dependant on mine and power station. The risk of a disaster might be small, but it's uninsurable. The market decided that you cannot get comprehensive insurance for nuclear desasters. Just let that sink in. I mean, if you have 15 years to de-coal your economy and already complain, idk what the future holds for you, but I suspect its a lot of suprises. If it weren't so far detached from the thread, I'd invite you to show us examples of the fearmongering you experienced. I'm rather interested how you define that term in respect to nuclear, as well as anti coal propaganda. We cannot continue to burn coal in the wake of the climate catastrophe. Do we have a consensus here? Internalising CO2 reduction costs as well as health care costs should quickly lead to the phase out of coal power, through market mechanism only. As of yet, society bears the costs of respiratory related illnesses caused by pollution. This shouldn't end in we are better than you thanks to whatever. We're all in this together. The bottom line is what counts, not the individual countrys' balance. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4768 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/apr/05/anti-nuclear-lobby-misled-world https://www.energetyka24.com/germany-misinforms-about-the-nuclear-energy-diws-report-under-criticism-analysis https://atomicinsights.com/how-important-has-oil-money-been-to-antinuclear-movement/ https://environmentalprogress.org/the-war-on-nuclear Regarding Bełchatów - You missunderstood me. My livelihood is in no way dependant on power plant, i will be ok. Also the closing of the plant has little to do with environemnt - it is projected that by 2038 they will simply run out of coal. I myself, am not huge fan of coal (or any fossil fuel for that matter), but I am also not fooling myslef - no amount of money thrown at the issue will fix the fact that once the power plant and mine closes we will see entire area dimish (right now it is one of the richest in Poland due to taxes from mining ) - similiar things happened in US, UK etc. literally everwhere where big mines/plants closed. Social mobility of miners and their families is low, they will have hard time adjusting. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1963 Posts
The second disputes one finding by a german governmant panel and disputes that after fukushima, the world would look less favorable at nuclear power. strange. The third and forth are staight nuclear lobbying that shoot against anti-nuclear lobbying. No one is denying that nuclear power is controversial, that economic interests exist that don't want it to be expanded and that some of those interests might play dirty. But dismissing all that is troublesome about nuclear power as fossil fuel propaganda in a ploy to burn more oil is ridiculous. The world as ample reason to be very skeptical of a technology that if not handled properly can create an incident that remains unsolved for decades and that generates waste that somehow no one wants to handle. I would prefer to have only renewable energies in my power mix, but that's currently impossible. That does not mean though, that i approve of nuclear power or coal power. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On July 08 2021 20:27 Silvanel wrote: Regarding the anti-nuclear propaganda - are You living on the different planet? It took me few seconds of googling to find plenty of articles on it: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/apr/05/anti-nuclear-lobby-misled-world https://www.energetyka24.com/germany-misinforms-about-the-nuclear-energy-diws-report-under-criticism-analysis https://atomicinsights.com/how-important-has-oil-money-been-to-antinuclear-movement/ https://environmentalprogress.org/the-war-on-nuclear Regarding Bełchatów - You missunderstood me. My livelihood is in no way dependant on power plant, i will be ok. Also the closing of the plant has little to do with environemnt - it is projected that by 2038 they will simply run out of coal. I myself, am not huge fan of coal (or any fossil fuel for that matter), but I am also not fooling myslef - no amount of money thrown at the issue will fix the fact that once the power plant and mine closes we will see entire area dimish (right now it is one of the richest in Poland due to taxes from mining ) - similiar things happened in US, UK etc. literally everwhere where big mines/plants closed. Social mobility of miners and their families is low, they will have hard time adjusting. Thanks for providing the links. I would much more appreciate if you summarise what exactly strikes you as misleading and explain why it is an actual problem - maybe akin to how the fossil fuel industry is disputing climate change or the like. Explain to me what about and why I should be concerned about anti nuclear propaganda. Don't just paste me a couple of links that I now shall scour for what might be your gripe with them. That's arduous work and just wastes my time. (Though to be fair I'd do it on a non mobile device but the small screen just doesn't cut it for that. Point of me still not knowing why you think this poses a threat to what exactly if you just paste links stands nontheless.) On your latter paragraph: you basically say that coal regions are worth more to you than coastal regions or island nations who will suffer the immediate consequences of rising sea levels thanks to in part burning of coal. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4768 Posts
There are currently 455 reactors in operation, 50 being built and 100 more ordered or planned. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On July 12 2021 20:32 Silvanel wrote: Fortunately the world doesnt agree with germany on the nuclear power: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide.aspx There are currently 455 reactors in operation, 50 being built and 100 more ordered or planned. How is this relevant for us politics? As this pops up from time to time,maybe it's time for a how we power the world in the wake of CC thread? | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4768 Posts
As to US: There are currently two reactors being built in Georgia (planned for 2021 and 2022 respectively) with combined power of 2,5TW. More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Plant#Units_3_and_4 Anyway, i just looked at the map of US nuclear power plants and noticed alsmost all of them are on the east coast or i rust belt https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/nuclear/images/US_nuclear_power_plants_map.png. Anywone know if this beacuse of seismic reasons or there are historical or political issues at play here? | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
This is getting out of hand with Cuba and US relations. It’s like trying to start a mini war, that can turn into a full blown war with greater powers. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On July 14 2021 05:29 ShoCkeyy wrote: Hundreds of Miami Cubans head to Cuba to help the Cuban people fight and aid against the government on their own boats. I honestly hope they make it safe, but I don’t expect the Cuban government to just allow them to land on their shores. I expect quite a few deaths sadly. This is getting out of hand with Cuba and US relations. It’s like trying to start a mini war, that can turn into a full blown war with greater powers. Yeah I don't expect the Cuban government to treat people who are entering the country with the express purpose of challenging the government's authority better than they treat their own people. I really hope this doesn't turn into a second Bay of Pigs | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24074 Posts
On July 14 2021 05:29 ShoCkeyy wrote: Hundreds of Miami Cubans head to Cuba to help the Cuban people fight and aid against the government on their own boats. I honestly hope they make it safe, but I don’t expect the Cuban government to just allow them to land on their shores. I expect quite a few deaths sadly. This is getting out of hand with Cuba and US relations. It’s like trying to start a mini war, that can turn into a full blown war with greater powers. The last 60+ years of embargo the rest of the world recognizes as cruelly inhumane was explicitly intended to foment anti-government sentiment as a result of lacking basic supplies. So yeah, the US's position has been unconscionably barbaric for decades with the explicit intention of fomenting disorder that would ostensibly justify US military intervention. Cuba's a rare exception where the US's persistent attempts to deprive them of food & medicine, assassinate their president, invade their country, etc. have all failed because of the resolute nature of the revolution in Cuba. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On July 14 2021 07:03 GreenHorizons wrote: The last 60+ years of embargo the rest of the world recognizes as cruelly inhumane was explicitly intended to foment anti-government sentiment as a result of lacking basic supplies. So yeah, the US's position has been unconscionably barbaric for decades with the explicit intention of fomenting disorder that would ostensibly justify US military intervention. Cuba's a rare exception where the US's persistent attempts to deprive them of food & medicine, assassinate their president, invade their country, etc. have all failed because of the resolute nature of the revolution in Cuba. Just so you know, the American side of the embargo is bullshit, the Cuban government have their own blockade against American goods. They also have many other countries they can trade with like Canada. The embargo actually allows food and medicine from the US to be shipped to Cuba. Cuba’s government steals the food and medicine for itself, they created their own embargo to blame the in humane conditions against the US. What you spouted is literally Cuban government propaganda. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On July 14 2021 06:34 StasisField wrote: Yeah I don't expect the Cuban government to treat people who are entering the country with the express purpose of challenging the government's authority better than they treat their own people. I really hope this doesn't turn into a second Bay of Pigs To be fair, the Bay of Pigs incident was met with exactly the kind of resistance that it should have. It was a military invasion with intent to overthrow Castro's regime and dismantle the structures in place from his revolution. This is a citizen-only humanitarian effort. That is not to say that it might still end up with deadly retaliation, so I also agree that I hope it doesn't turn into a "second Bay of Pigs" in terms of results. However, I don't really expect the Cuban military to slaughter those showing up on their shores, more likely just be turned away or possibly detained. Curious to see how this turns out. On July 14 2021 07:03 GreenHorizons wrote: Cuba's a rare exception where the US's persistent attempts to deprive them of food & medicine, assassinate their president, invade their country, etc. have all failed because of the resolute nature of the revolution in Cuba. Also from poor planning and execution, but I suppose nitpicking that doesn't really matter much. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24074 Posts
On July 14 2021 07:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: Just so you know, the American side of the embargo is bullshit, the Cuban government have their own blockade against American goods. They also have many other countries they can trade with like Canada. The embargo actually allows food and medicine from the US to be shipped to Cuba. Cuba’s government steals the food and medicine for itself, they created their own embargo to blame the in humane conditions against the US. What you spouted is literally Cuban government propaganda. Must be damn good propaganda to get A total of 184 countries on Wednesday voted in favour of a resolution to demand the end of the US economic blockade on Cuba, for the 29th year in a row, with [only] the United States and Israel voting against. news.un.org Or maybe the US side of the embargo isn't bullshit (in the way you mean) and you're repeating US government propaganda? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On July 14 2021 07:14 NrG.Bamboo wrote: To be fair, the Bay of Pigs incident was met with exactly the kind of resistance that it should have. It was a military invasion with intent to overthrow Castro's regime and dismantle the structures in place from his revolution. This is a citizen-only humanitarian effort. That is not to say that it might still end up with deadly retaliation, so I also agree that I hope it doesn't turn into a "second Bay of Pigs" in terms of results. However, I don't really expect the Cuban military to slaughter those showing up on their shores, more likely just be turned away or possibly detained. Curious to see how this turns out. Very true, the Bay of Pigs is what you'd expect a government to do against an armed military invasion. I guess the military's response lies heavily on how the protestors act once the boats reach the shore. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24074 Posts
On July 14 2021 09:32 StasisField wrote: Very true, the Bay of Pigs is what you'd expect a government to do against an armed military invasion. I guess the military's response lies heavily on how the protestors act once the boats reach the shore. I haven't looked that much into it but from what I can tell it was just clout chasing by people like this guy Santiago Rivero and they never even went? Some reporting from Newsweek on it: A group of Cuban protesters are setting their sights on helping the people of Cuba. Spearheaded by Cuban artist-influencer, Santiago Rivero...It's unclear whether the boat made it to Cuba or not. www.newsweek.com | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On July 14 2021 11:03 JimmiC wrote: Last I read they were stopped by the coast guard and will seek permission to which the cost guard replied, we won't give permission. Which I hope is right, that had disaster written all over it. I'm not sure how you end that repressive dictatorship mascarading as communism but I'm sure that is not it. That's probably the right call. Would kind of suck for the coast guard to be responsible for letting people try their luck on what kind of resistance they would meet upon reaching the shores of Cuba. I honestly had no idea what was going on in Cuba until this thread, and responded before even giving it a quick google; I assumed it was Cubans going to help the people due to some disaster or something, not an anti-government uprising. Yeah, the Cuban government actually might just bring the hammer down on people coming in to raise hell in direct opposition to them. I'm clearly not very up to date on all current affairs, and the only news I've been keeping up with lately is what's going on in South Africa (but won't post here because it really has nothing to do with American politics) other than damn, shit is fucked up over there right now. | ||
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