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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2317

Forum Index > General Forum
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4332 Posts
May 20 2020 00:23 GMT
#46321
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15689 Posts
May 20 2020 00:28 GMT
#46322
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/


In your eyes, why are hospitals choosing not to use HCQ?
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35145 Posts
May 20 2020 00:45 GMT
#46323
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Medical information from 15 years ago is suspect for a strain that was discovered/came to be last year.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44322 Posts
May 20 2020 01:14 GMT
#46324
On May 20 2020 09:45 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Medical information from 15 years ago is suspect for a strain that was discovered/came to be last year.


Yeah lol. There are plenty of differences between those coronaviruses.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4332 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 01:50:33
May 20 2020 01:47 GMT
#46325
On May 20 2020 10:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 09:45 Gahlo wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Medical information from 15 years ago is suspect for a strain that was discovered/came to be last year.


Yeah lol. There are plenty of differences between those coronaviruses.

The study was for SARS Covid-1, to suggest it doesn't work at all for prevention of SARS Covid-2 is premature.Wheres the SARS covid-1 vaccine anyway?

I like how some people think they know better than the White house doctor who prescribed Trump this stuff in the first place.Ever consider the WH doctor is privvy to information the public is not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9619 Posts
May 20 2020 01:52 GMT
#46326
about a well known drug taken regularly by millions? i should hope not.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
May 20 2020 02:04 GMT
#46327
I personally wouldn't take medical advice from someone who also suggested bleach injection as a Covid19 cure. Although admittedly, you wouldn't die of Covid19 if you did take that advice.

This is an overview of the studies being conducted, which is leaning towards no effect.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-what-do-the-clinical-trials-tell-us/
Porouscloud - NA LoL
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
May 20 2020 02:13 GMT
#46328
On May 20 2020 10:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 10:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:45 Gahlo wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Medical information from 15 years ago is suspect for a strain that was discovered/came to be last year.


Yeah lol. There are plenty of differences between those coronaviruses.

The study was for SARS Covid-1, to suggest it doesn't work at all for prevention of SARS Covid-2 is premature.Wheres the SARS covid-1 vaccine anyway?

I like how some people think they know better than the White house doctor who prescribed Trump this stuff in the first place.Ever consider the WH doctor is privvy to information the public is not?


What an absurd idea. What, the NSA’s been conducting top-secret clinical trials? MK Ultra 2.0 is just dosing people with HCQ? I mean fuck, if you think the WH has secret clinical trial data they’re not releasing, why aren’t you pissed at them for keeping this life-saving information under wraps? There are thousands of people dying every day from this thing, if they have good data to prove a cure and they’re withholding it a lot of blood is on their hands.

You don’t have to look at preliminary data about SARS, we have quite a bit of clinical trial data on HCQ against COVID-19 at this point and none of it is very encouraging.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4332 Posts
May 20 2020 02:21 GMT
#46329
On May 20 2020 10:52 brian wrote:
about a well known drug taken regularly by millions? i should hope not.

It's safe enough to give to a 'Morbidly obese' mid 70's man though? Interesting.You would have thought otherwise listening to the media fear campaign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
StalkerTL
Profile Joined May 2020
212 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 02:43:15
May 20 2020 02:39 GMT
#46330
Is there any evidence that Trump is actually taking the drug? He hasn’t been honest about anything and he’s never admitted to be wrong about anything. Why would he ever backtrack on his claim that this wonderful drug exists? Him saying he takes the drug is no different from him claiming he loves the bible and knows it better than anyone in the world.

Also, it should go without saying that taking any drug for no reason is incredibly stupid. Especially for something like hydroxychloroquine, which has a noted problem of influencing bodily functions.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
May 20 2020 02:41 GMT
#46331
On May 20 2020 11:21 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 10:52 brian wrote:
about a well known drug taken regularly by millions? i should hope not.

It's safe enough to give to a 'Morbidly obese' mid 70's man though? Interesting.You would have thought otherwise listening to the media fear campaign.

Like any medicine, it’s normally administered when the demonstrated benefits outweigh the possible side effects. This isn’t complicated.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44322 Posts
May 20 2020 02:52 GMT
#46332
On May 20 2020 10:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 10:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:45 Gahlo wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Medical information from 15 years ago is suspect for a strain that was discovered/came to be last year.


Yeah lol. There are plenty of differences between those coronaviruses.

The study was for SARS Covid-1, to suggest it doesn't work at all for prevention of SARS Covid-2 is premature.Wheres the SARS covid-1 vaccine anyway?

I like how some people think they know better than the White house doctor who prescribed Trump this stuff in the first place.Ever consider the WH doctor is privvy to information the public is not?



You have it backwards, because it's a non sequitur. It's premature to assume that a medication for one disease will automatically treat another, different disease. It's not premature to hold off on taking the unverified medication for the latter; that's how the burden of proof works, and that's why the medical community has made it very clear that more research and testing needs to be done before advocating an identical treatment. We've already seen negative consequences from people blindly buying and taking away HCQ from people who actually need it.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44322 Posts
May 20 2020 02:54 GMT
#46333
On May 20 2020 11:39 StalkerTL wrote:
Is there any evidence that Trump is actually taking the drug? He hasn’t been honest about anything and he’s never admitted to be wrong about anything. Why would he ever backtrack on his claim that this wonderful drug exists? Him saying he takes the drug is no different from him claiming he loves the bible and knows it better than anyone in the world.

Also, it should go without saying that taking any drug for no reason is incredibly stupid. Especially for something like hydroxychloroquine, which has a noted problem of influencing bodily functions.


Besides his word, I don't think so... and there's no reason to believe what he says, if one cares about the truth. That's not going to stop his followers from believing his promotion of the drug, sadly.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4332 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 04:25:36
May 20 2020 03:57 GMT
#46334
On May 20 2020 11:04 Amui wrote:
I personally wouldn't take medical advice from someone who also suggested bleach injection as a Covid19 cure. Although admittedly, you wouldn't die of Covid19 if you did take that advice.

This is an overview of the studies being conducted, which is leaning towards no effect.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-what-do-the-clinical-trials-tell-us/

Other studies claim very good results from it - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32205204/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

South Korean experts recommended using it along with HIV antivirals - https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/03/12/South-Korea-experts-recommend-anti-HIV-anti-malaria-drugs-for-COVID-19/6961584012321/

There is enough evidence to use it.Which is why doctors all over the world are prescribing it.Look at the huge growth in scripts for it in France for instance.

Even the Association of American Physicians and surgeons states there is a 90% chance it helps against Covid.
https://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 04:13:27
May 20 2020 04:10 GMT
#46335
On May 20 2020 12:57 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 11:04 Amui wrote:
I personally wouldn't take medical advice from someone who also suggested bleach injection as a Covid19 cure. Although admittedly, you wouldn't die of Covid19 if you did take that advice.

This is an overview of the studies being conducted, which is leaning towards no effect.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-what-do-the-clinical-trials-tell-us/

Other studies claim very good results from it - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32205204/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

South Korean experts recommended using it along with HIV antivirals - https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/03/12/South-Korea-experts-recommend-anti-HIV-anti-malaria-drugs-for-COVID-19/6961584012321/

There is enough evidence to use it.Which is why doctors all over the world are prescribing it.Look at the huge growth in scripts for it in France for instance.


Your first link is about in vitro activity against SARS. Your second is a news article from March 12th, before most of the clinical data had reported (and before everybody figured out what a charlatan Didier Raoult is).

Derek Lowe writes an excellent blog about the pharma pipeline, and has written several entries about the data on HCQ (most recent one here). TL;DR: several trials have been done. No evidence of quicker recovery, reduced mortality, or prophylactic efficacy. Several studies demonstrate risk of QT elongation, especially with azithromycin.

Edit to your edit: ah yes, that venerable organization, AAPS. Definitely a good cite.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44322 Posts
May 20 2020 04:26 GMT
#46336
On May 20 2020 12:57 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 11:04 Amui wrote:
I personally wouldn't take medical advice from someone who also suggested bleach injection as a Covid19 cure. Although admittedly, you wouldn't die of Covid19 if you did take that advice.

This is an overview of the studies being conducted, which is leaning towards no effect.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-what-do-the-clinical-trials-tell-us/

Other studies claim very good results from it - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32205204/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

South Korean experts recommended using it along with HIV antivirals - https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/03/12/South-Korea-experts-recommend-anti-HIV-anti-malaria-drugs-for-COVID-19/6961584012321/

There is enough evidence to use it.Which is why doctors all over the world are prescribing it.Look at the huge growth in scripts for it in France for instance.

Even the Association of American Psysicians and surgeons states there is a 90% chance it helps against Covid.
https://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/


French research isn't on your side...

"In the first study released Friday, researchers in France monitored 181 patients hospitalised with pneumonia due to Covid-19 and who needed oxygen.
Eighty-four were treated with HCQ and 97 were not.
They found no meaningful difference between the groups for either transfer to intensive care, death within seven days or developing acute respiratory distress syndrome within 10 days.
"Hydroxychloroquine has received worldwide attention as a potential treatment for Covid-19 because of positive results from small studies," said the authors of the research, published in the BMJ journal.
"However, the results of this study do not support its use in patients admitted to hospital with Covid-19 who require oxygen," the authors added."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20200515-studies-see-no-benefit-in-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-for-covid-19-patients

Also, keep in mind that Trump is not only asserting that HCQ can cure coronavirus, but that HCQ can prevent it too. There's no evidence of that.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
StalkerTL
Profile Joined May 2020
212 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-20 05:04:19
May 20 2020 05:00 GMT
#46337
Australia itself is planning a trial of the drug as preventative medication by using frontline health care workers as their sample. Link here.

Professor Pellegrini, who is conducting the trial, states that there is no concrete proof that the drug works in an actual human body at preventing or curing this breed of coronavirus. He also notes that current anti-flu medication is pretty ineffective at curing the flu, they’re more effective at prevention. Hydroxychloroquine being an effective cure would make it a large outlier.

He also notes that the sample will be screened for heart and eye issues as the drug can cause catastrophic side effects. So the idea that you can take this drug in an ad hoc fashion is completely bogus, there is a good reason why countries don’t let you self medicate with prescription drugs.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11507 Posts
May 20 2020 10:09 GMT
#46338
On May 20 2020 11:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 10:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 20 2020 10:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:45 Gahlo wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Medical information from 15 years ago is suspect for a strain that was discovered/came to be last year.


Yeah lol. There are plenty of differences between those coronaviruses.

The study was for SARS Covid-1, to suggest it doesn't work at all for prevention of SARS Covid-2 is premature.Wheres the SARS covid-1 vaccine anyway?

I like how some people think they know better than the White house doctor who prescribed Trump this stuff in the first place.Ever consider the WH doctor is privvy to information the public is not?



You have it backwards, because it's a non sequitur. It's premature to assume that a medication for one disease will automatically treat another, different disease. It's not premature to hold off on taking the unverified medication for the latter; that's how the burden of proof works, and that's why the medical community has made it very clear that more research and testing needs to be done before advocating an identical treatment. We've already seen negative consequences from people blindly buying and taking away HCQ from people who actually need it.


Thank you. That reversal of the burden of proof made me stop and facepalm.
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
May 20 2020 11:04 GMT
#46339
So, in Roe vs Wade, Roe was paid by the pro-life movement to play a role, while she was in fact pro-choice.... Well... What to say...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/jane-roe-roe-v-wade-supreme-court-case-paid-to-support-pro-life-movement
NoiR
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
May 20 2020 13:07 GMT
#46340
On May 20 2020 19:09 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2020 11:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 20 2020 10:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 20 2020 10:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:45 Gahlo wrote:
On May 20 2020 09:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On May 19 2020 19:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 19 2020 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 19 2020 14:33 CorsairHero wrote:
Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine
Any other elected member of the government doing the same?
he says he does*


Are you suggesting we can't take the president at his word? /s

According to Trump, not only does hydroxychloroquine cure coronavirus, but hcq can be taken preemptively to prevent even getting covid-19 in the first place. So now, just about everyone might as well take hcq, just to be safe... Sigh.

Yes, it was known 15 years ago that chloroquine can inhibit Sars-Coronavirus.This is not new information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Medical information from 15 years ago is suspect for a strain that was discovered/came to be last year.


Yeah lol. There are plenty of differences between those coronaviruses.

The study was for SARS Covid-1, to suggest it doesn't work at all for prevention of SARS Covid-2 is premature.Wheres the SARS covid-1 vaccine anyway?

I like how some people think they know better than the White house doctor who prescribed Trump this stuff in the first place.Ever consider the WH doctor is privvy to information the public is not?



You have it backwards, because it's a non sequitur. It's premature to assume that a medication for one disease will automatically treat another, different disease. It's not premature to hold off on taking the unverified medication for the latter; that's how the burden of proof works, and that's why the medical community has made it very clear that more research and testing needs to be done before advocating an identical treatment. We've already seen negative consequences from people blindly buying and taking away HCQ from people who actually need it.


Thank you. That reversal of the burden of proof made me stop and facepalm.

I'm amazed anyone is willing to die on the "Trump and his Chloroquine" hill.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
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