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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Vivax
21951 Posts
They probably know it and won't do anything that gives him a real casus belli, so I'm expecting further escalation attempts down the road. Truth is the first casualty in war. And Donny is the biggest hypocrite his office has ever seen imo. He doesn't even try to hide it and does almost everything that he used to speak up against political opponents himself. Isn't he supposed to be impeached since December or was that just show like the rest of it? | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11741235/Obamas-Iran-deal-has-just-granted-an-amnesty-to-the-worlds-leading-terrorist-mastermind.html?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&fbclid=IwAR02N5qPgr713_aPIb9Gt10vqNyLmM8BhzidQhUeh9uaiUB4FbXd0gNZdpo I looked the document up and he's listed as SOLEYMANI, Ghasem. So, assuming that is him, I figure he was on a blacklist, taken off by the Obama administration and now fair game as a terrorist mastermind as the US backed out of the agreement. And no wonder he's been blacklisted. Hezbollah IS widely considereded a terrorist organisation. Pity. We'll probably never have peace. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21528 Posts
On January 04 2020 10:29 Xxio wrote: In regards to if people think America should get involved in wars, certainly. But I would guess problems closer to home, aka in America, are more to the front of concerns Americans worry about and knowing who is pro or anti war doesn't do much to help with wealth inequality or climate change.Does anyone know of a list of politicians pushing for war with Iran? My guess is mostly Republican and a fair number of Democrats. I like to think (maybe naively) the pro-war/anti-war divide is a more meaningful long-term distinction than party allegiance. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On January 04 2020 18:20 Vivax wrote: Imo Iran is being provoked because Donny is looking for a scapegoat for something that was bound to happen anyway, and/or he's using a war to stop his impeachment. They probably know it and won't do anything that gives him a real casus belli, so I'm expecting further escalation attempts down the road. Truth is the first casualty in war. And Donny is the biggest hypocrite his office has ever seen imo. He doesn't even try to hide it and does almost everything that he used to speak up against political opponents himself. Isn't he supposed to be impeached since December or was that just show like the rest of it? Well the deal was terminated when the US stopped doing their part and pushed heavily so other countries could not keep it alive. There were several experts of Middle East in a radio talk and they did not have a clue about the reasons for this. The only hypothesis they had was it was done for electoral reasons but they were very careful when talking about it and barely brushed the subject as it's a very heavy accusation and they clearly were very uncomfortable saying it. Anyway it's almost a guaranteed reelection for the governing body in the US when they start a war the year of elections. They estimated the bombings would happen in 2020 and it was right at the start of the crisis. It's not like it would be the first time it happens in this decade alone (Sarkozy and Libya though for slightly different reasons). | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22991 Posts
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
On January 04 2020 18:20 Vivax wrote:Isn't he supposed to be impeached since December or was that just show like the rest of it? The really short summary of this is that Mitch McConnell won't commit the Senate to holding an actual trial and would instead prefer to let Trump off the hook with as quick a process as possible, so Nancy Pelosi isn't sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate. Until Pelosi sends the articles to the Senate, the impeachment trial in the Senate can't start. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22991 Posts
On January 05 2020 02:26 Kyadytim wrote: The really short summary of this is that Mitch McConnell won't commit the Senate to holding an actual trial and would instead prefer to let Trump off the hook with as quick a process as possible, so Nancy Pelosi isn't sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate. Until Pelosi sends the articles to the Senate, the impeachment trial in the Senate can't start. She bought herself a little time despite it setting up a bit of a precedent that a house leader can overrule the house and prevent an impeachment from proceeding by themselves. Potentially to the end of their term even if every other member of congress supported impeachment. The funny part is that no one thinks there was ever going to be a real trial so by making that her requirement to proceed her only options are to either not send them (guess there was no reason to rush then) or concede and scramble to pretend that she won something that mattered toward the trial or elsewise politically. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21528 Posts
On January 05 2020 03:01 GreenHorizons wrote: I think Mitch set that precedent long ago, for the rest I agree. She bought herself a little time despite it setting up a bit of a precedent that a house leader can overrule the house and prevent an impeachment from proceeding by themselves. Potentially to the end of their term even if every other member of congress supported impeachment. The funny part is that no one thinks there was ever going to be a real trial so by making that her requirement to proceed her only options are to either not send them (guess there was no reason to rush then) or concede and scramble to pretend that she won something that mattered toward the trial or elsewise politically. | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On January 05 2020 00:29 GreenHorizons wrote: Top UN reporter on torture says Chelsea Manning's imprisonment and the US's treatment of her violate international human rights obligations. https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1212100933477453824 A shame the US doesn't recognize any international institution that could hold them to account for anything. | ||
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franzji
United States581 Posts
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-soleimani-insight/inside-the-plot-by-irans-soleimani-to-attack-u-s-forces-in-iraq-idUSKBN1Z301Z | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 04 2020 06:05 Introvert wrote: The group he officially led is a designated terrorist group, so no, I have no issue calling him a terrorist. And a look through his bio should convince you of the same. This guy was a spider with a massive web connecting all sorts of horrendous actions and terrible groups. edit: and Iran's been using proxies and surrogates for a long time now to avoid responsibility. I applaud the administration for putting them on notice that that one side of that line is no longer safe. I'm curious what your thoughts are on how this contextualizes the Trump Administration backing out on the Syrian Kurds earlier last year. The Iraqi Kurds have previously been an instrumental part of the US being able to exert its influence in that region, and if any sort of action against Iran was in the cards, doing anything to sour US-Kurdish relations would be counterproductive. Regardless of whether you agree with the Trump Administration's overall foreign policy goals, this entire situation reeks of the administration flying by the seat of it's pants and not planning things out more than a week in advance. Choices made less than 6 months apart run completely against one another. People get caught up criticizing or justifying individual actions that the bigger picture of whether there's a coherent long-term geopolitical strategy underlying it gets lost in the weeds, when I think that's a much bigger and more relevant concern to discuss. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22991 Posts
On January 05 2020 03:53 Nouar wrote: A shame the US doesn't recognize any international institution that could hold them to account for anything. Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. "The Brits, the French, the Germans all need to understand that what we did, what the Americans did, saved lives in Europe as well," "This was a good thing for the entire world, and we're urging everyone in the world to get behind what the United States is trying to do, to get the Islamic Republic of Iran to simply behave like a normal nation" A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24424 Posts
On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote: Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1213500591646945286 Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. Fuck off Mike. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote: Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1213500591646945286 Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. i dont think europeans wanted to be a part of it, just like some countries didn't want to be part of an intervention in iraq | ||
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Sermokala
United States13816 Posts
On January 05 2020 10:55 Erasme wrote: i dont think europeans wanted to be a part of it, just like some countries didn't want to be part of an intervention in iraq If we hold our hands over our eyes that means we can tell people we didn't know it happened and couldn't have done anything about what happened. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24424 Posts
On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote: Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1213500591646945286 Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. But yes they don’t fucking do anything tangible other than handwringing. The entire EU saying fuck off we don’t support this measure and we’ll actually do something tangible actually means something. What the Europeans do doesn’t tend to be anywhere near as forceful, which is a real shame. | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On January 04 2020 04:11 franzji wrote: You guys forgot to mention that a war game is just a game. A real war with Iran will look nothing like what the little game from 20 years ago would look like. My guess it it would be a lot of long distance missiles until Iran concedes, lmao Just like Afghanistan right? | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On January 04 2020 07:09 Mohdoo wrote: What will likely happen is Trump gets a deal slightly worse than the original Iran deal, Pat's himself on the back and then Fox news can talk about how Trump brought peace to the middle east What deal could be made with the US that could ever be trusted after we ripped up the first deal for no reason? | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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