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On December 12 2019 11:34 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 11:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Democrats are giving Trump his Space Force WASHINGTON — The House on Wednesday passed a $738 billion military policy bill that would authorize the creation of the Space Force championed by President Trump as the sixth branch of the military...
The 377-to-48 vote reflected broad bipartisan support for the compromise package, one of the nation’s most expensive military policy bills to date.
Mr. Kushner who intervened on measures targeting Saudi Arabia that would have prohibited arms sales or military assistance to the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen. He said they were nonstarters for the White House, according to the officials.
Representative Ro Khanna of California, who led a series of amendments seeking to curtail the president’s war powers on Iran and Saudi Arabia, called the omission of those measures from the final version “astonishing moral cowardice” in a joint statement with Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont. www.nytimes.com Space force is a massive met benefit if it means more money for space-relevant scientific research. Edit: also, space debris coupled with our dog shit technology means if we actually had space combat, we would likely pair our space flight abilities due to debris. The debris we'd generate due to be confined to our pathetic distance from the earth means we'd never actually engage in space combat.
I wonder how long it takes after Trump before they just rebrand and tuck under NASA with the nice, fat budget. Because a "Space Force" is fucking pointless, beyond its ability to appeal to people who think Star Wars is real.
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On December 12 2019 11:38 micronesia wrote:
As an engineering duty officer in the reserves I might get assigned to assist the space force haha.
That would be an amazing boost to your resume, so I hope you get it! Good luck! You should express interest to your boss.
If Trump really does make Space Force the same girth as our Air Force, he will likely go down as one of the best presidents of all time (until now) hundreds of years from now when all his barbarism is irrelevant. 500 years from now we will likely remember a second scientific revolution more than we'll remember social conservatism setting us back 10 years socially/culturally/ethically. The amount of technological advancement necessary for a functional space force would be incredible for humanity.
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On December 12 2019 11:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
They want to have it voted and sent to Senate before the holiday recess. No one, not even washington, wants to work during the holidays.
Feels so rushed. It makes me wonder if Pelosi/Schiff know something the rest of us don't.....
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United States43635 Posts
On December 12 2019 11:45 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 11:38 micronesia wrote:
As an engineering duty officer in the reserves I might get assigned to assist the space force haha. That would be an amazing boost to your resume, so I hope you get it! Good luck! You should express interest to your boss. If Trump really does make Space Force the same girth as our Air Force, he will likely go down as one of the best presidents of all time (until now) hundreds of years from now when all his barbarism is irrelevant. 500 years ago we will likely remember a second scientific revolution more than we'll remember social conservatism setting us back 10 years socially/culturally/ethically. The amount of technological advancement necessary for a functional space force would be incredible for humanity.
Can you name the President that split the Air Force from the Army? Because if not I’m not sure why you think we’d remember the President who split the Space Force out of the Air Force.
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The biggest thing is that they have to create a 6th branch. Just give AF more funds and call it done. They can deal with the rest because ultimately, that's who is going to be running that show (with a ton of NASA involvement). At the end of the day, I see it either being curtailed significantly when the next president arrives. It's a massive waste of money. If SLS has taught us anything, is that there will be private companies benefiting the most off of this new pet project and it won't make any major milestones for decades.
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On December 12 2019 11:49 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 11:45 Mohdoo wrote:On December 12 2019 11:38 micronesia wrote:
As an engineering duty officer in the reserves I might get assigned to assist the space force haha. That would be an amazing boost to your resume, so I hope you get it! Good luck! You should express interest to your boss. If Trump really does make Space Force the same girth as our Air Force, he will likely go down as one of the best presidents of all time (until now) hundreds of years from now when all his barbarism is irrelevant. 500 years ago we will likely remember a second scientific revolution more than we'll remember social conservatism setting us back 10 years socially/culturally/ethically. The amount of technological advancement necessary for a functional space force would be incredible for humanity. Can you name the President that split the Air Force from the Army? Because if not I’m not sure why you think we’d remember the President who split the Space Force out of the Air Force.
The entire idea of saying "we should functionalize and secure a portion of space" triggers a level of technological advancement that has an entirely different impact on humanity when comparing to flight. There is a ridiculous technological requirement for securing space, even just locally around our planet. *If* he makes a legit space force, which I doubt he will, it would require a huge scientific revolution.
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On December 12 2019 11:54 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 11:49 KwarK wrote:On December 12 2019 11:45 Mohdoo wrote:On December 12 2019 11:38 micronesia wrote:
As an engineering duty officer in the reserves I might get assigned to assist the space force haha. That would be an amazing boost to your resume, so I hope you get it! Good luck! You should express interest to your boss. If Trump really does make Space Force the same girth as our Air Force, he will likely go down as one of the best presidents of all time (until now) hundreds of years from now when all his barbarism is irrelevant. 500 years ago we will likely remember a second scientific revolution more than we'll remember social conservatism setting us back 10 years socially/culturally/ethically. The amount of technological advancement necessary for a functional space force would be incredible for humanity. Can you name the President that split the Air Force from the Army? Because if not I’m not sure why you think we’d remember the President who split the Space Force out of the Air Force. The entire idea of saying "we should functionalize and secure a portion of space" triggers a level of technological advancement that has an entirely different impact on humanity when comparing to flight. There is a ridiculous technological requirement for securing space, even just locally around our planet. *If* he makes a legit space force, which I doubt he will, it would require a huge scientific revolution.
The only way that works is if there is an increase in NASA's budget and we know that ain't happening. NASA is the final say for almost any space launch from american soil. And if they are thinking of putting/sending people to space, NASA needs a really large expansion of it's budget and capabilities to perform those duties.
This is why the space launch industry has been dominated by private companies because they don't have as much red tape to go through to get funding. You think Bezos or Musk would have been able to do what they're doing if it was NASA instead? They can seek outside investment and lose money, and for the most part, no one will say much. NASA has oversight, requisitions, congress purse begging, etc before they can do much of anything.
The legislation on this is going to take years. KwarK won't get that special "Space Cadet" ribbon any time soon.
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On December 12 2019 11:26 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Congress is giving him the space force. Both parties did it. Don't make it seem like one side bent the knee. That shtick is old.
Only one side (the one in control) is giving space marines to the guy they are simultaneously declaring unfit for office and a threat to national security.
I do find the fantasy stuff about the military and NASA merging instead of NASA shutting down and private companies landing huge no-bid contracts to fill the gap amusing though.
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Northern Ireland26313 Posts
On December 12 2019 11:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Democrats are giving Trump his Space Force Show nested quote +WASHINGTON — The House on Wednesday passed a $738 billion military policy bill that would authorize the creation of the Space Force championed by President Trump as the sixth branch of the military...
The 377-to-48 vote reflected broad bipartisan support for the compromise package, one of the nation’s most expensive military policy bills to date.
Mr. Kushner who intervened on measures targeting Saudi Arabia that would have prohibited arms sales or military assistance to the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen. He said they were nonstarters for the White House, according to the officials.
Representative Ro Khanna of California, who led a series of amendments seeking to curtail the president’s war powers on Iran and Saudi Arabia, called the omission of those measures from the final version “astonishing moral cowardice” in a joint statement with Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont. www.nytimes.com
Lord give me strength, of course they were non-starters for the White House, quel fucking surprise.
We could pursue a more ethical and cooperative foreign policy, or we could make a Space Force to do whatever that is going to do.
It’s such an odd amalgam of America’s aspirational best onto Trump’s gigantic fucking ego, eugh.
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On December 12 2019 11:54 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 11:49 KwarK wrote:On December 12 2019 11:45 Mohdoo wrote:On December 12 2019 11:38 micronesia wrote:
As an engineering duty officer in the reserves I might get assigned to assist the space force haha. That would be an amazing boost to your resume, so I hope you get it! Good luck! You should express interest to your boss. If Trump really does make Space Force the same girth as our Air Force, he will likely go down as one of the best presidents of all time (until now) hundreds of years from now when all his barbarism is irrelevant. 500 years ago we will likely remember a second scientific revolution more than we'll remember social conservatism setting us back 10 years socially/culturally/ethically. The amount of technological advancement necessary for a functional space force would be incredible for humanity. Can you name the President that split the Air Force from the Army? Because if not I’m not sure why you think we’d remember the President who split the Space Force out of the Air Force. The entire idea of saying "we should functionalize and secure a portion of space" triggers a level of technological advancement that has an entirely different impact on humanity when comparing to flight. There is a ridiculous technological requirement for securing space, even just locally around our planet. *If* he makes a legit space force, which I doubt he will, it would require a huge scientific revolution.
The military is responsible for a variety of very important inventions and technological progress over the last 100 years.
Most people don't even know that it was the military that invented a number of these things. They're not going to give Trump credit for anything the Space Force would hypothetically develop.
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The militarisation of space is worrying to be honest. Imagine directed energy weapons on satellites for starters. I suppose officially it is to protect GPS satellites and the like, but I feel like it will cause a worrying arms race that may lead to Earths orbit being entirely cluttered and so we cannot leave Earth safely.
Btw, why increase NASA's budget for research when you can just increase the space force military instead?
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On December 12 2019 19:48 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 11:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Democrats are giving Trump his Space Force WASHINGTON — The House on Wednesday passed a $738 billion military policy bill that would authorize the creation of the Space Force championed by President Trump as the sixth branch of the military...
The 377-to-48 vote reflected broad bipartisan support for the compromise package, one of the nation’s most expensive military policy bills to date.
Mr. Kushner who intervened on measures targeting Saudi Arabia that would have prohibited arms sales or military assistance to the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen. He said they were nonstarters for the White House, according to the officials.
Representative Ro Khanna of California, who led a series of amendments seeking to curtail the president’s war powers on Iran and Saudi Arabia, called the omission of those measures from the final version “astonishing moral cowardice” in a joint statement with Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont. www.nytimes.com Lord give me strength, of course they were non-starters for the White House, quel fucking surprise. We could pursue a more ethical and cooperative foreign policy, or we could make a Space Force to do whatever that is going to do. It’s such an odd amalgam of America’s aspirational best onto Trump’s gigantic fucking ego, eugh.
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy without a semblance of democracy. Giving them more bombs to drop on innocent children, buses, schools, hospitals, etc... is the price we pay for... I don't even know what people think this is for anymore.
On December 12 2019 22:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The militarisation of space is worrying to be honest. Imagine directed energy weapons on satellites for starters. I suppose officially it is to protect GPS satellites and the like, but I feel like it will cause a worrying arms race that may lead to Earths orbit being entirely cluttered and so we cannot leave Earth safely.
Btw, why increase NASA's budget for research when you can just increase the space force military instead?
Exactly, not even Trump could present a military budget that didn't get widespread bipartisan support. Because, who better to trust with such expansions than a military mastermind like Trump.
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On December 12 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 19:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 12 2019 11:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Democrats are giving Trump his Space Force WASHINGTON — The House on Wednesday passed a $738 billion military policy bill that would authorize the creation of the Space Force championed by President Trump as the sixth branch of the military...
The 377-to-48 vote reflected broad bipartisan support for the compromise package, one of the nation’s most expensive military policy bills to date.
Mr. Kushner who intervened on measures targeting Saudi Arabia that would have prohibited arms sales or military assistance to the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen. He said they were nonstarters for the White House, according to the officials.
Representative Ro Khanna of California, who led a series of amendments seeking to curtail the president’s war powers on Iran and Saudi Arabia, called the omission of those measures from the final version “astonishing moral cowardice” in a joint statement with Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont. www.nytimes.com Lord give me strength, of course they were non-starters for the White House, quel fucking surprise. We could pursue a more ethical and cooperative foreign policy, or we could make a Space Force to do whatever that is going to do. It’s such an odd amalgam of America’s aspirational best onto Trump’s gigantic fucking ego, eugh. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy without a semblance of democracy. Giving them more bombs to drop on innocent children, buses, schools, hospitals, etc... is the price we pay for... I don't even know what people think this is for anymore. Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 22:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The militarisation of space is worrying to be honest. Imagine directed energy weapons on satellites for starters. I suppose officially it is to protect GPS satellites and the like, but I feel like it will cause a worrying arms race that may lead to Earths orbit being entirely cluttered and so we cannot leave Earth safely.
Btw, why increase NASA's budget for research when you can just increase the space force military instead? Exactly, not even Trump could present a military budget that didn't get widespread bipartisan support. Because, who better to trust with such expansions than a military mastermind like Trump.
It's because its political suicide to oppose the military for most elected officials.
We have a bizarre cultural fetish for the military. Its creepy.
And I say that as someone that is in the military.
Of course the irony is that this fetish doesn't extend to actually giving service members or veterans real, meaningful support or benefits. It's all just do the public feels good about themselves for "supporting the troops".
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On December 12 2019 22:45 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 12 2019 19:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 12 2019 11:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Democrats are giving Trump his Space Force WASHINGTON — The House on Wednesday passed a $738 billion military policy bill that would authorize the creation of the Space Force championed by President Trump as the sixth branch of the military...
The 377-to-48 vote reflected broad bipartisan support for the compromise package, one of the nation’s most expensive military policy bills to date.
Mr. Kushner who intervened on measures targeting Saudi Arabia that would have prohibited arms sales or military assistance to the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen. He said they were nonstarters for the White House, according to the officials.
Representative Ro Khanna of California, who led a series of amendments seeking to curtail the president’s war powers on Iran and Saudi Arabia, called the omission of those measures from the final version “astonishing moral cowardice” in a joint statement with Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont. www.nytimes.com Lord give me strength, of course they were non-starters for the White House, quel fucking surprise. We could pursue a more ethical and cooperative foreign policy, or we could make a Space Force to do whatever that is going to do. It’s such an odd amalgam of America’s aspirational best onto Trump’s gigantic fucking ego, eugh. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy without a semblance of democracy. Giving them more bombs to drop on innocent children, buses, schools, hospitals, etc... is the price we pay for... I don't even know what people think this is for anymore. On December 12 2019 22:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The militarisation of space is worrying to be honest. Imagine directed energy weapons on satellites for starters. I suppose officially it is to protect GPS satellites and the like, but I feel like it will cause a worrying arms race that may lead to Earths orbit being entirely cluttered and so we cannot leave Earth safely.
Btw, why increase NASA's budget for research when you can just increase the space force military instead? Exactly, not even Trump could present a military budget that didn't get widespread bipartisan support. Because, who better to trust with such expansions than a military mastermind like Trump. It's because its political suicide to oppose the military for most elected officials. We have a bizarre cultural fetish for the military. Its creepy. And I say that as someone that is in the military.
Brian Williams missile boner comes to mind. The thing is, we're past even "opposing the military". The military at large doesn't even want half the shit they get from what we spend on them and as in Iraq don't have the stuff they do want and/or need to do the absurd missions we give them.
Afghanistan feels (sounds like since I didn't live through vietnam) very much like Vietnam in some ways(though less traditionally deadly for US fighters for sure). The horrific things folks have to do in their service to the US military is killing more of them than all our enemies around the world combined. That's despite us having been dropping bombs on more than half a dozen countries for more than a decade now, all with 1 vague AUMF
Of course the irony is that this fetish doesn't extend to actually giving service members or veterans real, meaningful support or benefits. It's all just do the public feels good about themselves for "supporting the troops".
I would think dealing with the psychological damage of carrying out their murderous missions so troops can function among society, and a place for them to live would be a baseline, but apparently not when we have a space force to fund.
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Aren't all currently possible space weapons totally ineffective and/or horribly inefficient anyway?
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Northern Ireland26313 Posts
On December 12 2019 21:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 11:54 Mohdoo wrote:On December 12 2019 11:49 KwarK wrote:On December 12 2019 11:45 Mohdoo wrote:On December 12 2019 11:38 micronesia wrote:
As an engineering duty officer in the reserves I might get assigned to assist the space force haha. That would be an amazing boost to your resume, so I hope you get it! Good luck! You should express interest to your boss. If Trump really does make Space Force the same girth as our Air Force, he will likely go down as one of the best presidents of all time (until now) hundreds of years from now when all his barbarism is irrelevant. 500 years ago we will likely remember a second scientific revolution more than we'll remember social conservatism setting us back 10 years socially/culturally/ethically. The amount of technological advancement necessary for a functional space force would be incredible for humanity. Can you name the President that split the Air Force from the Army? Because if not I’m not sure why you think we’d remember the President who split the Space Force out of the Air Force. The entire idea of saying "we should functionalize and secure a portion of space" triggers a level of technological advancement that has an entirely different impact on humanity when comparing to flight. There is a ridiculous technological requirement for securing space, even just locally around our planet. *If* he makes a legit space force, which I doubt he will, it would require a huge scientific revolution. The military is responsible for a variety of very important inventions and technological progress over the last 100 years. Most people don't even know that it was the military that invented a number of these things. They're not going to give Trump credit for anything the Space Force would hypothetically develop.
I thought such stuff was relatively common knowledge.
I’ll not give Trump credit here because any such advancements would be purely incidental and his scheme seems to be a giant, ill-thought out vanity project and one that dovetails neatly with Trump’s ‘might is right’ approach to everything.
Especially when a giant federal dumping of money into alternative energy issues would also develop various technologies while mitigating a global problem that Trump outright denies exists.
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On December 12 2019 23:11 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 21:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 12 2019 11:54 Mohdoo wrote:On December 12 2019 11:49 KwarK wrote:On December 12 2019 11:45 Mohdoo wrote:On December 12 2019 11:38 micronesia wrote:
As an engineering duty officer in the reserves I might get assigned to assist the space force haha. That would be an amazing boost to your resume, so I hope you get it! Good luck! You should express interest to your boss. If Trump really does make Space Force the same girth as our Air Force, he will likely go down as one of the best presidents of all time (until now) hundreds of years from now when all his barbarism is irrelevant. 500 years ago we will likely remember a second scientific revolution more than we'll remember social conservatism setting us back 10 years socially/culturally/ethically. The amount of technological advancement necessary for a functional space force would be incredible for humanity. Can you name the President that split the Air Force from the Army? Because if not I’m not sure why you think we’d remember the President who split the Space Force out of the Air Force. The entire idea of saying "we should functionalize and secure a portion of space" triggers a level of technological advancement that has an entirely different impact on humanity when comparing to flight. There is a ridiculous technological requirement for securing space, even just locally around our planet. *If* he makes a legit space force, which I doubt he will, it would require a huge scientific revolution. The military is responsible for a variety of very important inventions and technological progress over the last 100 years. Most people don't even know that it was the military that invented a number of these things. They're not going to give Trump credit for anything the Space Force would hypothetically develop. I thought such stuff was relatively common knowledge. I’ll not give Trump credit here because any such advancements would be purely incidental and his scheme seems to be a giant, ill-thought out vanity project and one that dovetails neatly with Trump’s ‘might is right’ approach to everything. Especially when a giant federal dumping of money into alternative energy issues would also develop various technologies while mitigating a global problem that Trump outright denies exists.
I think that is an important point. Imagine spending all of that money that you spend on a "space force" on alternative energies instead. Or the healthcare system. Or education. You can get a lot of good stuff that directly improves the quality of life for the population for 738 billion.
It is weird how that money is always available for military stuff, and never for anything else. Imagine someone suggesting a 738 billion spend on an alternative energies bill. They would get laughed out of any room. Yet for the military, it is totally reasonable for some reason.
For the cost of the iraq war, about 2 trillion dollars or so, you could instead have paid 100k for college for 20 million people. That is half the population of iraq. Instead of bombing the country and fucking everything up, you could just as well have given most adults in iraq a college education. Or, of course, you could have given free college tuition to everyone coming of age in the US for the 8 years that the Iraq war officially lasted.
Why is the latter an absurd proposition, and the former is totally sensible? Why does it never seem to be a problem to get money for the military, but anything that actually helps people is always too expensive and not something the US can afford?
Simply think about that. What helps the US population more? Free education for everyone, or bombing iraq? And now ask yourself the same question. What is more beneficial to the US citizens? Creating a massive space dick, or funding education/renewable energies/healthcare?
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EPT
