EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1758
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 15 2019 16:39 Mohdoo wrote: Mods, please take note of exactly how this conversation has been intentionally pulled away from the existing topic. This is a textbook example of why whataboutism is damaging to conversations and fundamentally makes the thread worse. Instead of being able to discuss Trump's response to Hong Kong, we are now once again examining the US' history of violence. It's not a coincidence. GH makes a conscious effort to drag conversations in that direction. I am discussing Trump's response to Hong Kong and why it's absurd*? + Show Spoiler + (*there's probably a better word that'll come to me), meh stickin with absurd I think You are misusing the term whataboutism. Please stop. I didn't drag it there, I made an argument and substantiated it as asked. | ||
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MWY
Germany284 Posts
You are misusing the term whataboutism. Why or how is he misusing it? Please explain. You literally wrote that lining up tanks near a city to threaten it is okay because police violence in the US is worse. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 15 2019 17:47 MWY wrote: Why or how is he misusing it? Please explain. You literally wrote that lining up tanks near a city to threaten it is okay because police violence in the US is worse. Where did I say it was okay? I'm against the proliferation of using APCs to quell protests pretty much everywhere, but would note since Tienanmen was mentioned, for China APCs are a step in the right direction | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On August 15 2019 10:14 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I wouldn't read to much between the lines.US statement on the Hong Kong protests I guess the interpretation of this message depends a lot on what you imagine Trump means with 'quickly and humanely solve' Trump likes Xi because Xi says nice words to him and Xi is a successful Dictator which Trump likes. He is just trying to say nice things to his friend look good without having any real idea what is even going on in Hong Kong. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4463 Posts
On August 15 2019 16:05 Velr wrote: Tiananmen Square happened in 1989.. Don't make this about "5000 years/history of mankind", plenty of people remember this, they remember the news broadcasts that aired at the time ffs. Search me one thing the US has done to his own citizens in the last 100 years that was as bad. We are talking about sending the army after a mass protest with orders to shoot, not just the use of excessive force by the police. Exactly, talking about what China did 3000-5000 years ago is completely pointless. Only talk about what they have done post communist revolution - 1946~ that is the only relevant time here. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Vivax
22427 Posts
On August 15 2019 18:30 Gorsameth wrote: I wouldn't read to much between the lines. Trump likes Xi because Xi says nice words to him and Xi is a successful Dictator which Trump likes. He is just trying to say nice things to his friend look good without having any real idea what is even going on in Hong Kong. I don't know what the protests in HK are about either. But if I were protesting and someone who is part of the problems China has praised the leader I'm protesting against, that wouldn't make me happier. I still don't know what Trump is trying to do with China (what are his precise demands?), but I wager that he's going to come up with a popular half-solution to solution before elections unless he doesn't want another 4 years. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 16 2019 04:57 Vivax wrote: I don't know what the protests in HK are about either. But if I were protesting and someone who is part of the problems China has praised the leader I'm protesting against, that wouldn't make me happier. I still don't know what Trump is trying to do with China (what are his precise demands?), but I wager that he's going to come up with a popular half-solution to solution before elections unless he doesn't want another 4 years. The TLDR is that China is trying to get Hong Kong to allow for no questions asked extradition to China. So if China doesn't like someone in HK, they can just make a request and suddenly that person gets disappeared. Since HK is proud to not be a member of mainland China, the idea that China can kill anyone they want in HK is less than desirable. | ||
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farvacola
United States18876 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 16 2019 05:26 Mohdoo wrote: The TLDR is that China is trying to get Hong Kong to allow for no questions asked extradition to China. So if China doesn't like someone in HK, they can just make a request and suddenly that person gets disappeared. Since HK is proud to not be a member of mainland China, the idea that China can kill anyone they want in HK is less than desirable. Its expanded well beyond just that particular law at this point. There are democractic norms the people of Hong Kong are used to that simply dont align with how China does things. They want democratically elected representation, otherwise this same circus will keep repeating. These are smart people they know just winning on this particular issue itself wont solve anything for them. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 16 2019 05:26 Mohdoo wrote: The TLDR is that China is trying to get Hong Kong to allow for no questions asked extradition to China. So if China doesn't like someone in HK, they can just make a request and suddenly that person gets disappeared. Since HK is proud to not be a member of mainland China, the idea that China can kill anyone they want in HK is less than desirable. The "5 demands" they have said must be met are The complete withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill The government to withdraw the use of the word “riot” in relation to protests The unconditional release of arrested protesters and charges against them dropped An independent inquiry into police behaviour Implementation of genuine universal suffrage I wonder if they'll come to the US and help us demand the same stuff? | ||
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Muliphein
49 Posts
If you live in HK, the only option you have is to leave HK. You can protest until Beijing sends in the army, but it won't do you any good. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37125 Posts
On August 15 2019 16:39 Mohdoo wrote: Mods, please take note of exactly how this conversation has been intentionally pulled away from the existing topic. This is a textbook example of why whataboutism is damaging to conversations and fundamentally makes the thread worse. Instead of being able to discuss Trump's response to Hong Kong, we are now once again examining the US' history of violence. It's not a coincidence. GH makes a conscious effort to drag conversations in that direction. https://tl.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread Please post in here. As for GH's posting, I will take a closer look into it and stop it if he really is causing conversations to be intentionally pulled away. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 16 2019 08:05 Seeker wrote: https://tl.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread Please post in here. As for GH's posting, I will take a closer look into it and stop it if he really is causing conversations to be intentionally pulled away. Thanks, posted there. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 16 2019 05:43 farvacola wrote: So Netanyahu’s government and Trump have told Tlaib and Omar that they are banned from Israel (with the latter saying a bunch more heinous shit about the two). In an odd twist, AIPAC has said the opposite and wants the two American politicians to visit Israel. Odd to see a split like that, I wonder if it bodes well. As many stories as I'm reading about citizens being locked up I'm not entirely sure they couldn't visit immigrants traveling through Mexico and get caught up by ICE/DHS and have it explained as them meeting a threshold for detention. It is interesting that AIPAC used to be considered pretty right wing but in the era of Trump/Netanyahu they are the moderates. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9077 Posts
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