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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On April 06 2019 10:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 10:39 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 10:24 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:07 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:55 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 09:50 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? Trump is against illegal immigration from Mexico (and other countries as well). Is being against illegal immigrants racist? That is what left-wing people claim, but other people don't. For example, if someone treats white/black/hispanic/asian people who are citizens or legal immigrants of society the same way, but doesn't treat illegal immigrants the same. It is not racism, but just anti illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants don’t cross at the border, they over stay visas. Asylum seekers cross at the border or at entry points as the first step to legally seeking asylum. Trump has stopped the flow of legal immigrants seeking asylum and focused efforts away from drug smuggling prosecution to deport asylum seekers. While authorizing for profit detention centers to hold children that are taken away from their parents at the border, in violation of a 20 agreement to not detain immigrant children. There is little evidence to support that the Trump administration is for any form of immigration, illegal or legal. Edit: Trump has a long history of racism dating back to the 1980s Trump is totally against illegal immigration. On legal immigration, it is true that Trump wants to reduce the number of legal immigrants the country takes in a year. But it is an extremely long stretch to claim that is racist, as the number of legal immigrants taken in a year depends on the country's growth policy. Trump has said also said he supports merit-based immigration. He wants to select immigrants which are likelier to have higher contributions to the economy rather than ones which are likelier to require state support (such as asylum seekers). You might agree or disagree, depending on whether or you think the purpose of immigration is to benefit the rest of society, or for society to be charitable to them. But Trump has a valid point on immigration. We already have a merit based immigration system. The current proposal by Steven miller and others to switch falsely named “merit based” system is to change the rules to add numerous reasons to deny immigration status and lower the number of non whites entering the country. The system would also remove the ability to bring over family members, which would effectively reduce the number of immigrants willing to settle in the US permently to zero. Trump and his Steven Miller like supporters do not support any form of immigration, period. They are just smart enough to lie about it. Immigration lottery, asylum seekers, etc are not merit based immigration, as they are not based on measurements or rankings of potential contributions to society (although using an economic metric is debatable, but that is another topic). Trump wants to get rid of those. It is true that immigrants who already have a higher education level or socioeconomic status (disproportionately white and asians) will benefit more from Trump's proposed merit-based immigration system. But the claims that his true purpose is to reduce non-whites and merit is just a cover, is not falsifiable and is the left-wing version of right-wing conspiracy theories (white-replacement). The current system takes into account if the immigrants will contribute to the US.
Do tell me how this form of immigration takes contribution into account:
www.uscis.gov
In case you are not familiar with the US immigration system, there are many different routes of immigration, some of which take contribution into account and some don't.
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On April 06 2019 10:51 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 10:46 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:39 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 10:24 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:07 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:55 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 09:50 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? Trump is against illegal immigration from Mexico (and other countries as well). Is being against illegal immigrants racist? That is what left-wing people claim, but other people don't. For example, if someone treats white/black/hispanic/asian people who are citizens or legal immigrants of society the same way, but doesn't treat illegal immigrants the same. It is not racism, but just anti illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants don’t cross at the border, they over stay visas. Asylum seekers cross at the border or at entry points as the first step to legally seeking asylum. Trump has stopped the flow of legal immigrants seeking asylum and focused efforts away from drug smuggling prosecution to deport asylum seekers. While authorizing for profit detention centers to hold children that are taken away from their parents at the border, in violation of a 20 agreement to not detain immigrant children. There is little evidence to support that the Trump administration is for any form of immigration, illegal or legal. Edit: Trump has a long history of racism dating back to the 1980s Trump is totally against illegal immigration. On legal immigration, it is true that Trump wants to reduce the number of legal immigrants the country takes in a year. But it is an extremely long stretch to claim that is racist, as the number of legal immigrants taken in a year depends on the country's growth policy. Trump has said also said he supports merit-based immigration. He wants to select immigrants which are likelier to have higher contributions to the economy rather than ones which are likelier to require state support (such as asylum seekers). You might agree or disagree, depending on whether or you think the purpose of immigration is to benefit the rest of society, or for society to be charitable to them. But Trump has a valid point on immigration. We already have a merit based immigration system. The current proposal by Steven miller and others to switch falsely named “merit based” system is to change the rules to add numerous reasons to deny immigration status and lower the number of non whites entering the country. The system would also remove the ability to bring over family members, which would effectively reduce the number of immigrants willing to settle in the US permently to zero. Trump and his Steven Miller like supporters do not support any form of immigration, period. They are just smart enough to lie about it. Immigration lottery, asylum seekers, etc are not merit based immigration, as they are not based on measurements or rankings of potential contributions to society (although using an economic metric is debatable, but that is another topic). Trump wants to get rid of those. It is true that immigrants who already have a higher education level or socioeconomic status (disproportionately white and asians) will benefit more from Trump's proposed merit-based immigration system. But the claims that his true purpose is to reduce non-whites and merit is just a cover, is not falsifiable and is the left-wing version of right-wing conspiracy theories (white-replacement). The current system takes into account if the immigrants will contribute to the US. Do tell me how this form of immigration takes contribution into account: www.uscis.govIn case you are not familiar with the US immigration system, there are many different routes of immigration, some of which take contribution into account and some don't.
Why wouldn’t their be several routes to immigrate to the US? The system should be flexible and take into account the needs of citizens and potential immigrants.
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To find some small bit that is an "error," is the MO. Of course there are multiple ways to enter the country legally. They take your words, find the "error" and hammer home. Nothing of merit comes from continuing.
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On April 06 2019 10:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 10:51 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 10:46 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:39 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 10:24 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:07 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:55 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 09:50 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? Trump is against illegal immigration from Mexico (and other countries as well). Is being against illegal immigrants racist? That is what left-wing people claim, but other people don't. For example, if someone treats white/black/hispanic/asian people who are citizens or legal immigrants of society the same way, but doesn't treat illegal immigrants the same. It is not racism, but just anti illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants don’t cross at the border, they over stay visas. Asylum seekers cross at the border or at entry points as the first step to legally seeking asylum. Trump has stopped the flow of legal immigrants seeking asylum and focused efforts away from drug smuggling prosecution to deport asylum seekers. While authorizing for profit detention centers to hold children that are taken away from their parents at the border, in violation of a 20 agreement to not detain immigrant children. There is little evidence to support that the Trump administration is for any form of immigration, illegal or legal. Edit: Trump has a long history of racism dating back to the 1980s Trump is totally against illegal immigration. On legal immigration, it is true that Trump wants to reduce the number of legal immigrants the country takes in a year. But it is an extremely long stretch to claim that is racist, as the number of legal immigrants taken in a year depends on the country's growth policy. Trump has said also said he supports merit-based immigration. He wants to select immigrants which are likelier to have higher contributions to the economy rather than ones which are likelier to require state support (such as asylum seekers). You might agree or disagree, depending on whether or you think the purpose of immigration is to benefit the rest of society, or for society to be charitable to them. But Trump has a valid point on immigration. We already have a merit based immigration system. The current proposal by Steven miller and others to switch falsely named “merit based” system is to change the rules to add numerous reasons to deny immigration status and lower the number of non whites entering the country. The system would also remove the ability to bring over family members, which would effectively reduce the number of immigrants willing to settle in the US permently to zero. Trump and his Steven Miller like supporters do not support any form of immigration, period. They are just smart enough to lie about it. Immigration lottery, asylum seekers, etc are not merit based immigration, as they are not based on measurements or rankings of potential contributions to society (although using an economic metric is debatable, but that is another topic). Trump wants to get rid of those. It is true that immigrants who already have a higher education level or socioeconomic status (disproportionately white and asians) will benefit more from Trump's proposed merit-based immigration system. But the claims that his true purpose is to reduce non-whites and merit is just a cover, is not falsifiable and is the left-wing version of right-wing conspiracy theories (white-replacement). The current system takes into account if the immigrants will contribute to the US. Do tell me how this form of immigration takes contribution into account: www.uscis.govIn case you are not familiar with the US immigration system, there are many different routes of immigration, some of which take contribution into account and some don't. Why wouldn’t their be several routes to immigrate to the US? The system should be flexible and take into account the needs of citizens and potential immigrants.
You previously claimed "The current system takes into account if the immigrants will contribute to the US.". And it doesn't all the time.
What the routes of immigration should be, is the point of debate. Trump and the right-wing view the purpose of immigration as primarily to benefit the country, with the benefit to the immigrants an afterthought. Hence they will cutoff all the non merit-based routes such as lottery and asylum-seeking.
Whereas left-wing people want to take in asylum seekers, refugees, etc., which benefit the immigrants more than the country.
The problem is people are unable to discuss this rationally instead of engaging in puerile mudslinging. E.g. left-wing claims of racism and demonization of opposing views, right-wing using individual cases of crimes for appeal to fear, etc.
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But why do we need a merit based system if we already take into account merit for the majority of immigrants?
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On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist?
I just threw out Fake News for a tweet you quoted thinking it was new and damaging, when it was old and intentionally fake. Can you pause for a second on your recent accurate distribution of fake news before relying on old canards about how often you think I misuse it? Any noob can move on as if nothing happened, but you have a choice to deal with it here and now, honestly.
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On April 06 2019 13:02 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? I just threw out Fake News for a tweet you quoted thinking it was new and damaging, when it was old and intentionally fake. Can you pause for a second on your recent accurate distribution of fake news before relying on old canards about how often you think I misuse it? Any noob can move on as if nothing happened, but you have a choice to deal with it here and now, honestly.
Just don’t use the term fake news at all unless it’s fake news.
If you talk about a website pretending to be news outlet but that doesn’t have journalists, is operated in Macedonia and says completely outlandish lies, use the term Fake News.
If you talk about a real media lying (or more probably saying stuff you don’t agree with), don’t use the term Fake News. Period. That’s not what it is.
I know that your joke of a president got elected with an enormous and unprecedented fake news campaign and that he has turned the term around to denigrate legitimate media and avoid questions about who created all those stories about Pope Francis supporting him and whatnot that flooded facebook and twitter back then. But since you are not on r/thedonald, just refrain from doing the same or expect everyone to think you are a partisan clown. Your choice.
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On April 06 2019 15:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 13:02 Danglars wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? I just threw out Fake News for a tweet you quoted thinking it was new and damaging, when it was old and intentionally fake. Can you pause for a second on your recent accurate distribution of fake news before relying on old canards about how often you think I misuse it? Any noob can move on as if nothing happened, but you have a choice to deal with it here and now, honestly. Just don’t use the term fake news at all unless it’s fake news. If you talk about a website pretending to be news outlet but that doesn’t have journalists, is operated in Macedonia and says completely outlandish lies, use the term Fake News. If you talk about a real media lying (or more probably saying stuff you don’t agree with), don’t use the term Fake News. Period. That’s not what it is. I know that your joke of a president got elected with an enormous and unprecedented fake news campaign and that he has turned the term around to denigrate legitimate media and avoid questions about who created all those stories about Pope Francis supporting him and whatnot that flooded facebook and twitter back then. But since you are not on r/thedonald, just refrain from doing the same or expect everyone to think you are a partisan clown. Your choice.
I’ll have to disagree with you on that one. Pretending asylum seekers are the same thing as MS-13 is absolutely included. I think dodging the issue and pretending to be the Catholic Pope of the political dictionary makes you more of a joke than the president.
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Northern Ireland23906 Posts
On April 06 2019 15:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 15:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 06 2019 13:02 Danglars wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? I just threw out Fake News for a tweet you quoted thinking it was new and damaging, when it was old and intentionally fake. Can you pause for a second on your recent accurate distribution of fake news before relying on old canards about how often you think I misuse it? Any noob can move on as if nothing happened, but you have a choice to deal with it here and now, honestly. Just don’t use the term fake news at all unless it’s fake news. If you talk about a website pretending to be news outlet but that doesn’t have journalists, is operated in Macedonia and says completely outlandish lies, use the term Fake News. If you talk about a real media lying (or more probably saying stuff you don’t agree with), don’t use the term Fake News. Period. That’s not what it is. I know that your joke of a president got elected with an enormous and unprecedented fake news campaign and that he has turned the term around to denigrate legitimate media and avoid questions about who created all those stories about Pope Francis supporting him and whatnot that flooded facebook and twitter back then. But since you are not on r/thedonald, just refrain from doing the same or expect everyone to think you are a partisan clown. Your choice. I’ll have to disagree with you on that one. Pretending asylum seekers are the same thing as MS-13 is absolutely included. I think dodging the issue and pretending to be the Catholic Pope of the political dictionary makes you more of a joke than the president.
I mean he’s one Pope I would follow anyway, on this specific issue.
‘Fake news’ is overwhelmingly slung around by people who can’t differentiate between a degree of ideological bias and factor it in, so throw the baby out with the bathwater and call everything that hurts their wee brains ‘fake’.
That’s across the aisles obviously, and it’s also the Donald’s favourite buzzphrase, dropping it just makes so much sense to me. At best, in a forum such as here which is pretty civil people will still centre on it somewhat, elsewhere people will outright dismiss oneself solely for using a phrase that has those certain associations.
It sucks yeah, wouldn’t be the only thing I have excused from my lexicon on these rationales.
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Northern Ireland23906 Posts
On April 06 2019 11:20 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 10:58 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:51 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 10:46 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:39 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 10:24 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:07 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:55 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 09:50 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? Trump is against illegal immigration from Mexico (and other countries as well). Is being against illegal immigrants racist? That is what left-wing people claim, but other people don't. For example, if someone treats white/black/hispanic/asian people who are citizens or legal immigrants of society the same way, but doesn't treat illegal immigrants the same. It is not racism, but just anti illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants don’t cross at the border, they over stay visas. Asylum seekers cross at the border or at entry points as the first step to legally seeking asylum. Trump has stopped the flow of legal immigrants seeking asylum and focused efforts away from drug smuggling prosecution to deport asylum seekers. While authorizing for profit detention centers to hold children that are taken away from their parents at the border, in violation of a 20 agreement to not detain immigrant children. There is little evidence to support that the Trump administration is for any form of immigration, illegal or legal. Edit: Trump has a long history of racism dating back to the 1980s Trump is totally against illegal immigration. On legal immigration, it is true that Trump wants to reduce the number of legal immigrants the country takes in a year. But it is an extremely long stretch to claim that is racist, as the number of legal immigrants taken in a year depends on the country's growth policy. Trump has said also said he supports merit-based immigration. He wants to select immigrants which are likelier to have higher contributions to the economy rather than ones which are likelier to require state support (such as asylum seekers). You might agree or disagree, depending on whether or you think the purpose of immigration is to benefit the rest of society, or for society to be charitable to them. But Trump has a valid point on immigration. We already have a merit based immigration system. The current proposal by Steven miller and others to switch falsely named “merit based” system is to change the rules to add numerous reasons to deny immigration status and lower the number of non whites entering the country. The system would also remove the ability to bring over family members, which would effectively reduce the number of immigrants willing to settle in the US permently to zero. Trump and his Steven Miller like supporters do not support any form of immigration, period. They are just smart enough to lie about it. Immigration lottery, asylum seekers, etc are not merit based immigration, as they are not based on measurements or rankings of potential contributions to society (although using an economic metric is debatable, but that is another topic). Trump wants to get rid of those. It is true that immigrants who already have a higher education level or socioeconomic status (disproportionately white and asians) will benefit more from Trump's proposed merit-based immigration system. But the claims that his true purpose is to reduce non-whites and merit is just a cover, is not falsifiable and is the left-wing version of right-wing conspiracy theories (white-replacement). The current system takes into account if the immigrants will contribute to the US. Do tell me how this form of immigration takes contribution into account: www.uscis.govIn case you are not familiar with the US immigration system, there are many different routes of immigration, some of which take contribution into account and some don't. Why wouldn’t their be several routes to immigrate to the US? The system should be flexible and take into account the needs of citizens and potential immigrants. You previously claimed "The current system takes into account if the immigrants will contribute to the US.". And it doesn't all the time. What the routes of immigration should be, is the point of debate. Trump and the right-wing view the purpose of immigration as primarily to benefit the country, with the benefit to the immigrants an afterthought. Hence they will cutoff all the non merit-based routes such as lottery and asylum-seeking. Whereas left-wing people want to take in asylum seekers, refugees, etc., which benefit the immigrants more than the country. The problem is people are unable to discuss this rationally instead of engaging in puerile mudslinging. E.g. left-wing claims of racism and demonization of opposing views, right-wing using individual cases of crimes for appeal to fear, etc.
The rational discussion to have is way more multifaceted and nuanced one, alas we can’t have a decent discussion societally on a real binary and basic issue, so anything more complex isn’t bloody going to happen.
Do asylum seekers and refugees not benefit the country? Surely that group will vary considerably in all sorts of ways. A well-educated, fluent in English asylum seeker from say, the Arab world who’s been outed as gay could hit the ground running in the States in a way a non English-speaking family from Syria could not.
And that’s accepting the premise that they have to be valuable to the country in a tangible fashion.
I’m one of the lefties against open borders myself, so I find the debate increasingly exasperating. To my mind the centre left is just abrogating real responsibility by pushing the solution I poor people around the world to just migrate to richer countries.
I don’t want tons of migration around the world that is motivated solely by poverty and necessity, while touching none of the underlying factors at all.
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On April 06 2019 11:32 Plansix wrote:
But why do we need a merit based system if we already take into account merit for the majority of immigrants?
The merit based system is a lie by Trump to appear like he isn't aganist all forms of immigration. If he cared about merit he wouldn't have made moves to restrict h1-b visas.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-says-he-wants-skilled-immigrants-but-raises-new-obstacles/
Nor would he be talking about illegal immigrant taking our jobs. If the illegal immigrant can take your job doesn't that prove they are skilled and could contribute to society.
the Trump administration also have been killing off the TPS for immigrants
The only immigration the Trump administration has increased is h2-b temp visas, which his businesses started to apply for in mass shortly after.
The thing is birth rates dropped if we dont tax more or have massive cuts to geriatric safety nets like social security, immigration is the last way left to prop up the system.
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Northern Ireland23906 Posts
On April 07 2019 00:35 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 11:32 Plansix wrote:
But why do we need a merit based system if we already take into account merit for the majority of immigrants? The merit based system is a lie by Trump to appear like he isn't aganist all forms of immigration. If he cared about merit he wouldn't have made moves to restrict h1-b visas. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-says-he-wants-skilled-immigrants-but-raises-new-obstacles/Nor would he be talking about illegal immigrant taking our jobs. If the illegal immigrant can take your job doesn't that prove they are skilled and could contribute to society. the Trump administration also have been killing off the TPS for immigrants The only immigration the Trump administration has increased is h2-b temp visas, which his businesses started to apply for in mass shortly after. The thing is birth rates dropped if we dont tax more or have massive cuts to geriatric safety nets like social security, immigration is the last way left to prop up the system.
We could just go full Logan’s Run, I haven’t heard that suggested and it’s not radical or anything
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On April 07 2019 00:35 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 11:32 Plansix wrote:
But why do we need a merit based system if we already take into account merit for the majority of immigrants? The merit based system is a lie by Trump to appear like he isn't aganist all forms of immigration. If he cared about merit he wouldn't have made moves to restrict h1-b visas. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-says-he-wants-skilled-immigrants-but-raises-new-obstacles/Nor would he be talking about illegal immigrant taking our jobs. If the illegal immigrant can take your job doesn't that prove they are skilled and could contribute to society. the Trump administration also have been killing off the TPS for immigrants The only immigration the Trump administration has increased is h2-b temp visas, which his businesses started to apply for in mass shortly after. The thing is birth rates dropped if we dont tax more or have massive cuts to geriatric safety nets like social security, immigration is the last way left to prop up the system.
Actually, he doesn’t talk much about the jobs thing. He’s more of a “they’re raping and murdering our women and children” kinda guy
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On April 06 2019 10:39 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 10:24 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:07 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:55 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 09:50 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? Trump is against illegal immigration from Mexico (and other countries as well). Is being against illegal immigrants racist? That is what left-wing people claim, but other people don't. For example, if someone treats white/black/hispanic/asian people who are citizens or legal immigrants of society the same way, but doesn't treat illegal immigrants the same. It is not racism, but just anti illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants don’t cross at the border, they over stay visas. Asylum seekers cross at the border or at entry points as the first step to legally seeking asylum. Trump has stopped the flow of legal immigrants seeking asylum and focused efforts away from drug smuggling prosecution to deport asylum seekers. While authorizing for profit detention centers to hold children that are taken away from their parents at the border, in violation of a 20 agreement to not detain immigrant children. There is little evidence to support that the Trump administration is for any form of immigration, illegal or legal. Edit: Trump has a long history of racism dating back to the 1980s Trump is totally against illegal immigration. On legal immigration, it is true that Trump wants to reduce the number of legal immigrants the country takes in a year. But it is an extremely long stretch to claim that is racist, as the number of legal immigrants taken in a year depends on the country's growth policy. Trump has said also said he supports merit-based immigration. He wants to select immigrants which are likelier to have higher contributions to the economy rather than ones which are likelier to require state support (such as asylum seekers). You might agree or disagree, depending on whether or you think the purpose of immigration is to benefit the rest of society, or for society to be charitable to them. But Trump has a valid point on immigration. We already have a merit based immigration system. The current proposal by Steven miller and others to switch falsely named “merit based” system is to change the rules to add numerous reasons to deny immigration status and lower the number of non whites entering the country. The system would also remove the ability to bring over family members, which would effectively reduce the number of immigrants willing to settle in the US permently to zero. Trump and his Steven Miller like supporters do not support any form of immigration, period. They are just smart enough to lie about it. Immigration lottery, asylum seekers, etc are not merit based immigration, as they are not based on measurements or rankings of potential contributions to society (although using an economic metric is debatable, but that is another topic). Trump wants to get rid of those. It is true that immigrants who already have a higher education level or socioeconomic status (disproportionately white and asians) will benefit more from Trump's proposed merit-based immigration system. But the claims that his true purpose is to reduce non-whites and merit is just a cover, is not falsifiable and is the left-wing version of right-wing conspiracy theories (white-replacement).
I'm sorry, are you saying that white-replacement is a left wing conspiracy theory? Or am I misreading you spectacularly?
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Northern Ireland23906 Posts
I took it to read the idea that Trump's ultimate intent is to reduce non-whites coming into the US is a conspiratorial notion held by the left and their version of white replacement conspiracies coming from the right.
If anything I think it'd be preferable if Trump was actually wedded to immigration changes, instead of being well, Trump. If you fervently want something for whatever reasons you have, you may suck it up and take some kind of compromise at some stage. I mean Obamacare was a slew of compromises ultimately, us on the left didn't feel it grabbed the bulls by the horns enough, obviously many on other sides didn't like it at all, but it was the end result of a process.
I don't even know what Trump wants in this regard really, or why. I think it's entirely plausible he wants to play a certain segment of the population on the issue, not compromise and then blame everyone else for that scenario, in perpetuity.
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On April 07 2019 04:18 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 10:39 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 10:24 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 10:07 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:55 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2019 09:50 Pangpootata wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? Trump is against illegal immigration from Mexico (and other countries as well). Is being against illegal immigrants racist? That is what left-wing people claim, but other people don't. For example, if someone treats white/black/hispanic/asian people who are citizens or legal immigrants of society the same way, but doesn't treat illegal immigrants the same. It is not racism, but just anti illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants don’t cross at the border, they over stay visas. Asylum seekers cross at the border or at entry points as the first step to legally seeking asylum. Trump has stopped the flow of legal immigrants seeking asylum and focused efforts away from drug smuggling prosecution to deport asylum seekers. While authorizing for profit detention centers to hold children that are taken away from their parents at the border, in violation of a 20 agreement to not detain immigrant children. There is little evidence to support that the Trump administration is for any form of immigration, illegal or legal. Edit: Trump has a long history of racism dating back to the 1980s Trump is totally against illegal immigration. On legal immigration, it is true that Trump wants to reduce the number of legal immigrants the country takes in a year. But it is an extremely long stretch to claim that is racist, as the number of legal immigrants taken in a year depends on the country's growth policy. Trump has said also said he supports merit-based immigration. He wants to select immigrants which are likelier to have higher contributions to the economy rather than ones which are likelier to require state support (such as asylum seekers). You might agree or disagree, depending on whether or you think the purpose of immigration is to benefit the rest of society, or for society to be charitable to them. But Trump has a valid point on immigration. We already have a merit based immigration system. The current proposal by Steven miller and others to switch falsely named “merit based” system is to change the rules to add numerous reasons to deny immigration status and lower the number of non whites entering the country. The system would also remove the ability to bring over family members, which would effectively reduce the number of immigrants willing to settle in the US permently to zero. Trump and his Steven Miller like supporters do not support any form of immigration, period. They are just smart enough to lie about it. Immigration lottery, asylum seekers, etc are not merit based immigration, as they are not based on measurements or rankings of potential contributions to society (although using an economic metric is debatable, but that is another topic). Trump wants to get rid of those. It is true that immigrants who already have a higher education level or socioeconomic status (disproportionately white and asians) will benefit more from Trump's proposed merit-based immigration system. But the claims that his true purpose is to reduce non-whites and merit is just a cover, is not falsifiable and is the left-wing version of right-wing conspiracy theories (white-replacement). I'm sorry, are you saying that white-replacement is a left wing conspiracy theory? Or am I misreading you spectacularly?
Looks like a misreading to me. I took it as him calling the clamping down on immigration as a method to whitewash the populace the left wing version.
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On April 06 2019 15:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 15:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 06 2019 13:02 Danglars wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? I just threw out Fake News for a tweet you quoted thinking it was new and damaging, when it was old and intentionally fake. Can you pause for a second on your recent accurate distribution of fake news before relying on old canards about how often you think I misuse it? Any noob can move on as if nothing happened, but you have a choice to deal with it here and now, honestly. Just don’t use the term fake news at all unless it’s fake news. If you talk about a website pretending to be news outlet but that doesn’t have journalists, is operated in Macedonia and says completely outlandish lies, use the term Fake News. If you talk about a real media lying (or more probably saying stuff you don’t agree with), don’t use the term Fake News. Period. That’s not what it is. I know that your joke of a president got elected with an enormous and unprecedented fake news campaign and that he has turned the term around to denigrate legitimate media and avoid questions about who created all those stories about Pope Francis supporting him and whatnot that flooded facebook and twitter back then. But since you are not on r/thedonald, just refrain from doing the same or expect everyone to think you are a partisan clown. Your choice. I’ll have to disagree with you on that one. Pretending asylum seekers are the same thing as MS-13 is absolutely included. I think dodging the issue and pretending to be the Catholic Pope of the political dictionary makes you more of a joke than the president.
We disagree on absolutely everything.
It’s not about being the pope of anything, but about not weaponizing with crap partisanship what is a real issue. Even though I understand that it’s nice to shove under the carpet the fact your guy got elected with the support of a massive conspiracy theory machine and an avalanche of lies by branding all your critics with the term invented to describe the phenomenon that got you there.
You can keep sounding as much of a dumbass as your man and use his catchphrases, just as xDaunt can keep talking about « creepy joe » when mentioning Biden, but don’t expect anyone to ever take you seriously. Again, it’s up to you.
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On April 07 2019 05:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 15:52 Danglars wrote:On April 06 2019 15:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 06 2019 13:02 Danglars wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? I just threw out Fake News for a tweet you quoted thinking it was new and damaging, when it was old and intentionally fake. Can you pause for a second on your recent accurate distribution of fake news before relying on old canards about how often you think I misuse it? Any noob can move on as if nothing happened, but you have a choice to deal with it here and now, honestly. Just don’t use the term fake news at all unless it’s fake news. If you talk about a website pretending to be news outlet but that doesn’t have journalists, is operated in Macedonia and says completely outlandish lies, use the term Fake News. If you talk about a real media lying (or more probably saying stuff you don’t agree with), don’t use the term Fake News. Period. That’s not what it is. I know that your joke of a president got elected with an enormous and unprecedented fake news campaign and that he has turned the term around to denigrate legitimate media and avoid questions about who created all those stories about Pope Francis supporting him and whatnot that flooded facebook and twitter back then. But since you are not on r/thedonald, just refrain from doing the same or expect everyone to think you are a partisan clown. Your choice. I’ll have to disagree with you on that one. Pretending asylum seekers are the same thing as MS-13 is absolutely included. I think dodging the issue and pretending to be the Catholic Pope of the political dictionary makes you more of a joke than the president. We disagree on absolutely everything. It’s not about being the pope of anything, but about not weaponizing with crap partisanship what is a real issue. Even though I understand that it’s nice to shove under the carpet the fact your guy got elected with the support of a massive conspiracy theory machine and an avalanche of lies by branding all your critics with the term invented to describe the phenomenon that got you there. You can keep sounding as much of a dumbass as your man and use his catchphrases, just as xDaunt can keep talking about « creepy joe » when mentioning Biden, but don’t expect anyone to ever take you seriously. Again, it’s up to you.
If you're replying and getting wound up, Danglars is getting his jollies. I don't think he cares much about being taken seriously around here. Just seriously enough for people to become angry when he says something.
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On April 07 2019 05:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 15:52 Danglars wrote:On April 06 2019 15:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 06 2019 13:02 Danglars wrote:On April 06 2019 09:46 Plansix wrote:
Danglers, if we thought he was racist in 2018, shit has not changed. So our opinion has not. He threatened to shut down the border to Mexico for unknown reasons last week, claiming some crisis. Children are still be abused, returned to their parents sick and traumatized. 2019 is a lot like 2018. Sure, I got taken in by an old video of Trump dehumanizing violent criminals. Which still sucks tbh, but nothing about the man has changed.
Why would we go out and seek out examples of what we see as racism just for you to deny that it’s racism? You have proven to have an extreamly high bar for what you will consider racist. So why is that worthy our time your personal burden of proof?
I don’t like it when you throw around the term Fake News every time there is a news article you don’t be like, but I deal with it. You many you just need to deal with people calling Trump racist? I just threw out Fake News for a tweet you quoted thinking it was new and damaging, when it was old and intentionally fake. Can you pause for a second on your recent accurate distribution of fake news before relying on old canards about how often you think I misuse it? Any noob can move on as if nothing happened, but you have a choice to deal with it here and now, honestly. Just don’t use the term fake news at all unless it’s fake news. If you talk about a website pretending to be news outlet but that doesn’t have journalists, is operated in Macedonia and says completely outlandish lies, use the term Fake News. If you talk about a real media lying (or more probably saying stuff you don’t agree with), don’t use the term Fake News. Period. That’s not what it is. I know that your joke of a president got elected with an enormous and unprecedented fake news campaign and that he has turned the term around to denigrate legitimate media and avoid questions about who created all those stories about Pope Francis supporting him and whatnot that flooded facebook and twitter back then. But since you are not on r/thedonald, just refrain from doing the same or expect everyone to think you are a partisan clown. Your choice. I’ll have to disagree with you on that one. Pretending asylum seekers are the same thing as MS-13 is absolutely included. I think dodging the issue and pretending to be the Catholic Pope of the political dictionary makes you more of a joke than the president. We disagree on absolutely everything. It’s not about being the pope of anything, but about not weaponizing with crap partisanship what is a real issue. Even though I understand that it’s nice to shove under the carpet the fact your guy got elected with the support of a massive conspiracy theory machine and an avalanche of lies by branding all your critics with the term invented to describe the phenomenon that got you there. You can keep sounding as much of a dumbass as your man and use his catchphrases, just as xDaunt can keep talking about « creepy joe » when mentioning Biden, but don’t expect anyone to ever take you seriously. Again, it’s up to you.
I really doubt your capacity to understand fake vs real news. The subject arose out of something deliberately fake. You can’t even bring yourself to acknowledge that fact before going on about all these other reasons why you still don’t like Trump. I never said you have to like Trump to accurately call out balls and strikes from politicians or media members.
I’m going to continue to use the term to describe articles based on falsehoods, or articles whose primary objective is to mislead or obfuscate, and I don’t really care if your response is to call “dumbass.” You may imagine my conception of your political partisanship in our conversations over the years. The only point of interest for me is when you call people ideologically similar to you dumbasses—since that would be worthy of comment.
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