EPTa couple questions about buddhism/meditation - Page 2
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
I don't know much about Buddhism except what I learned in 10th grade, sorry to not be able to help with your initial questions. good luck | ||
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Bladesinger Boy
Canada2 Posts
About my knowledge in relation to this, I've been a Buddhist for almost 4 years, a practicing Shambhala Buddhist at our local center for almost two years (which I've helped staff more recently). At St.Thomas University here in Fredericton, I'm finishing up a BA in a couple months with majors in Psychology and Religious Studies and a minor in Philosophy for related content, and I'm going on to more biopsych stuff at UNB soon. I took a very solid month of special Buddhist classes from the Nitartha Institute this past summer where we looked at more Hinayana content like the Lorik (classifications of Mind), debating practice, guided analytical mediation, and some more advanced Mahayana or Vajrayana schools (of thought) like Mudyamaka or Chittamantra. Lama Tenpa Gyaltsen and Lama ? Kyelsong were both there to help teach some classes (they both younger tibetan dudes, like maybe 30s I'd say) 1) Okay, remember like any relgiion there are a range of how "left" or "right" some of these stances are. Especially in the west as it is more individually discovered and not old enough yet to be handed down by family, Buddhists are more lefty and liberal in their view. That tends to push them towards Vajrayana stances, rather than more rigid Hinayana stances. 1 A) Can a Buddhist have sex? Yes. By the base 5 precepts, yes. The closest infraction their would be to "avoid sexual misconduct". What is "sexual misconduct" normally considered? Stuff like not raping someone, or any kind of paraphilia that could in the long term harm someone (like pedophila or maybe bestiality), or getting someone drunk to fuck them. Vajrayana & Tantrists might really feel sex is necessary and demands to be skillfully balanced; denying sex for them is not very good "middle way" practice. Monks and Nuns cannot. It should be noted here, there are Monks, and there are Lamas. Monks are devoted religious practictioners; Lama are like Buddhist theology PhD scholars. They are often very similar and commonly a person will be both. As you go up in monastic importance, you take on additional precepts, like dietary restrictions, no money handling, or limiting common conversational speech. 1 B) "...if everyone was orthodox buddhist, wouldn't humans go extinct?" Nope. Even a very strict, exoteric, anti-desire, and xenophobic bunch of Theravada Buddhists still, by precept adherence, have no ban on sex. If it came to a choice of them having sex and repopulating the world or not and having no new generations be created, they would very much see it as compassionate to have sex. If they were very anti-desire about it (which I, as a Vajrayanist, see as a big misunderstanding of enlightened view and practice), they might be not unlike an orthodox Christian thinking "okay, I'll have sex, but I can't desire it". In some ways, Buddhism is a big Hinduism rip-off. In the 5th century BC when Buddhism began, the Upanishads were questioning and reinterpreting central Vedic practices. Different Veda texts say a spiritual practitioner needs to be in society, have children (especially boys), and make sacrifices to keep the cosmological order of things. The Upanishads are about asceticism and renunciation, where getting away from societal patterns and objects, being disciplined and unrash in practice, and looking at and breaking down mental patterns (where meditation becomes useful). This dichotomy between "do I leave this place or stay here", social engagement or asceticism, is an old one. More esoteric traditions like forms of Tantra, or any Vajrayana traditions, is constantly trying to strike that balance. Shambhala Buddhism has a real philosopher kings feel to it; "if the wisest people ruled over society, what would it be like?". It may sound great, but is it really that different that, in theory, the notion behind a Christian "Kingdom of Heaven on Earth"? 2) Many kind of meditation exist. As such, you need to define what you're talking about before you ask stuff like "why?" and "how?". How root or central is meditation as a Buddhist practice? Very. In fact, the long term effects of meditation can show its improvement and increase of neural activity. This is important as Buddhist beliefs say how you meditate not just to improve your own abilities and clarity, but for the sake of others. The fact that meditation actually is part of achieving something is what seem to practically elevate it to more than just praxus (though a theist would argue their prayers are received and possibly acted on by their god(s)). BUT this is not to say all meditate is awesome and perfect and enlightening; it's just a thinking practice. Look at the word literally, "to think"; if you want to be stronger, exercise your muscles, and so if you want to be a better thinker, exercise your mind. In a more clinical psychology standpoint, it can be like a little personal self-only therapy session that pokes at your fears and failings, that supports and challenges you, and that hopefully makes you clearer confident and compassionate. 2 A) Is there a goal to meditation? Yes, almost any meditation is defined as working towards some purpose. Relaxation Meditation, AKA Shamatha (SHAM-ma-ta), is the most basic, widely used, and widely applicable mediation. You sit, open eyed (or closed eyed too for some styles), and continually focus and refocus on the process and sensation of breathing. Consciously, you try not to cling to thought and refocus as soon as you see yourself "drifting" from the breath. No jhanas are experienced because any non-ordinary experience is immediately proceeded/interrupted by returning to the breath. In the process, you're unconsicously seeing how not all your thoughts are You and you begin to identify less and less with objects, statements, ideas, as yourself. You're cultivating an egoless quality by being able to let go. Any meditation has some bit of this relaxation meditation to start with, even if it's a short "take a deep breath and clear your mind" before some other instructions begin. It's really about working with your temperment, subconsicous/unconscious, emotive/affective patterns. Insight Meditation, or Vipisana (vip-PASH-shin-a), it about more aware and conscious working with mental contents. Any kind of guided, visual/imagery, or planed meditation is this kind, also called analytic meditation (because your judgement is needed). Because of the focused nature of it, you need to close your eyes and be in a position to be away from distractions more so. Maybe you're looking at a fear you have, maybe you're trying to cultivate kindness and love towards something, maybe going through some instructions to help see the emtpy nature of some common phenomena. Maybe it's a more personal and instructionless but aware meditation you do at 1am on your bed when everything is quiet. With insight meditation, you can sometimes experience "higher" states of consciousness, classically called jhanas; if you're ever done something like this on your own and somehow just fell into or found yourself naturally in this whole spaceless other perspective, you have some sense of this. It would have been this kind of meditation that, in the historical/mythological stories of Siddhartha Guatoma aka the "classical" Buddha (Avalekiteshvara by bodhishatva terms), that allowed him to ultimately pierce through all ignorance of reality into a truthful, clear and empty nature of existence. 2 B) Is there a super meditation, perhaps a special set of instructions to follow or guided analytical method, or multi-meditation that is better than others? Is my instruction or method flawed, am I doing it wrong? ... Sure, just close your eyes, chant "purple monkey dishwasher" 108 times, then focus so hard you get a nosebleed. You'll shatter all delusion, forever be a formless happy god (deva, hindu rip-off), and blissfully and effortlessly exist in a multivalent endless loop of karma and jellybeans. No, there's not. If something works well, it's not a shortcut; just relative skillful means. If it doesn't work, repeating it 10000 more times won't work either. There's somehow a self-evident quality when you begin to practice; you feel it or you don't. Sometimes it can seem like real boring punch-in-the-chops being there, but you ultimately are better for having stared whatever that was in the face afterwards. I recently saw a YouTube clip about Kabbalah were the guy says it's like you're learning to think better an better, to continually from more concrete and bounded ways of things to ever more open, interconnected, and metacognitively complex ways of thinking. You're kind of training yourself to be fully open-minded and open-hearted, and you're mind (abstract perception, not just physical brain) is the only thing you're working with and the only thing in the way of getting their. Eventually, more and more you see Samsara (the repetitive cycles of suffering) and Nirvana (perception of true, enlightened view that is indestructible) are not different and feel/perceive so phenomenologically, not just in word or construct idea. It's actually super-mundane and A Priori. You don't meditate wrong, but we all need fine tuning that is very personal and inexpressible. If you come into it thinking "man, I can do this; I can do anything", you'll probably need to experience some low points to mellow you out and ground you more in this world. If you really think it is impossible, somehow this natural, commonplace, or downright pathetic world may be seem as naturally there, perfect, an non-attainment. Actually, though the belief is the same, Vajrayanists describe it differently than others Buddhists. Other Buddhists seek to reach Nirvana and escape Samsara to go from their deluded ego-conception to a truth, fully realized being (an awakened being, a Buddha). But Vajrayanists believe it has already happened, it's already there and we're already in Nirvana and experientially enlightened, but we just have to realize and manifest it. A Vajrayana Buddhist is actually trying to manifest Buddha Nature as it is everywhere, in everything, and the basis for all; "I'm already awakened and I'm trying to continually, sustainably act on the truest, wisest, gentlest, fearless part of me- and you too". It is not a "something", but a nothing, a perfect basis so simple and potent there are infinite means to embody it and express it and return to it. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
it really covered most of the followup questions I had. and makes me think I have been meditating for quite some time now, since before I had even known about meditation. I think it may have been something I just did to try to help me deal with my ADD. But it will definitely help to figure out what exactly im doing. Also, if you aren't too busy, could you tell me more about Samsara and Nirvana ? | ||
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Da Bomb
United States53 Posts
i like your threads travis. philosophy and such is really interesting to me too. | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/kama-sutra/magical-power-of-vishnu.jpg) | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
One day Manjushri stood outside the gate when Buddha called to him, "Manjushri, Manjushri, why do you not enter?" "I do not see a thing outside the gate. Why should I enter?" Manjushri answered. In Zen, there is no "in" or "out". Manjushri essentially sees nothing, hears nothing, but takes his place gracefully. What better freedom is there? Man builds the gate, then compares what is inside and outside of it. Were not they the same before the gate was built? Are they not the same now? Thus, what is the difference after humanity is gone? | ||
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Person514cs
1004 Posts
There are some crazy stuff that monks can do, for example: Self-Immolation | ||
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Person514cs
1004 Posts
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
On February 21 2007 23:15 Person514cs wrote: I think buddism is mainly about being kind and tolrent to others. And a good parts of it has to do with building up a strong well power to confront your own desire. There are some crazy stuff that monks can do, for example: Self-Immolation Idols are good, idolization is not good. This monk missed the point of that legend he was trying to be. Not good Zen. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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wXs.Havok
Argentina529 Posts
Meditation makes me change personality each 6 months. Well, its the effect on me. I always have 2 personalities, one is constant, the another one can change a lot, but somehow its always an opposite of the first. However, this is what im used to do and i dont know if its meditation or not. Sometimes i help myself closing my room, going into dark, and just have some loud music in the back (not slow music). Anyways, im crazy, maybe you're not :D Edit: Sometimes i dont remember exactly what the "other me" did. I remember it but barely. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
i have little or none buddhism knowledge but i read Bladesinger Boy's post (great post btw) and i have some questions for him ; one in particular What's the point to buddhism? at first that question looks/is prety retarded so let me try and explain my perspective/reasoning i assumed the following : i am a buddhist ; after years pased and through learning , mediation , thought , reasoning i was able to reach Samsara/Nirvana ; i can manifest Buddha Nature "I'm already awakened and I'm trying to continually, sustainably act on the truest, wisest, gentlest, fearless part of me- and you too". It is not a "something", but a nothing, a perfect basis so simple and potent there are infinite means to embody it and express it and return to it. how does that theoretical fraze translates in to reality ?what happens (practic) to the buddhist?he becomes something else?he develops superpowers?how can he prove that he is what he thinks he is?if not to other people (because they cant understand him) at least to himself. Because if all this remains at the thought level/believe only with no real/practical proof what so ever we'r back to the spaghetti monster it's the buddhism only for making human beings better/wiser , or they can become 'gods'?  | ||
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KaasZerg
Netherlands927 Posts
This is just my opinion. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Eventually, more and more you see Samsara (the repetitive cycles of suffering) and Nirvana (perception of true, enlightened view that is indestructible) are not different and feel/perceive so phenomenologically, not just in word or construct idea. It's actually super-mundane and A Priori. whoa there, explain more about this. ^_^ is this belief grounded in a metaphysical conception of life, for example is there a conception of a mortal plane or a dualist plane, or stuff of that nature. what are the ways one would go about doing buddhism, are you trying to force yourself to see something with suggestive thinking, as in following a rather dogmatic doctrine and believing it, although with flexibility, or is this something that can be gained as knowledge and if so in what way. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
I ran down to the river's edge and stomped my feet in mud and as I watched that river flow I wished it was your blood I stomped my feet into the mud and dreamed it was your guts and as I watched that river flow I dreamed it was your blood. My head sank down upon my chest and I began to dream a menstruating moon rose proud upon the flowing sea I felt my hands upon your throat and heard your woman scream I touched my blade against your heart and you began to bleed- Dear days were those my weary friend when I could swear your tragic end One question waits before I send Shall we have peace or shall I let the Furies in? | ||
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Person514cs
1004 Posts
On February 22 2007 02:47 5HITCOMBO wrote: Idols are good, idolization is not good. This monk missed the point of that legend he was trying to be. Not good Zen. The guy sacrifice himself to make a point by burning him self to death while silently sitting there. Crazy, No? Imagine the amount of well power that's required. Imagine putting your hands on a buring stove, or open fire. Or maybe he is just on drug, I dont know. | ||
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Person514cs
1004 Posts
On February 22 2007 06:35 travis wrote: i have to question why so many of you randomly posted what you "think" buddhism "might be about". Every thing we know are "what we think". | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 22 2007 13:36 Person514cs wrote: Every thing we know are "what we think". lets not go there. if you didn't get what I meant, I'll explain it. but im hoping you did. | ||
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
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