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AeroGear
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada652 Posts
January 12 2012 14:19 GMT
#13181
@cullam:


1 hour psy trance mix, bunch of other good live sets in the same genre in the "suggestion" bar as well 0_0
Driven by hate, fueled by rage
NiTenIchiRyu
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom273 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 15:27:14
January 13 2012 15:26 GMT
#13182
If there are any smokers from Vienna in this thread, could someone PM me ? I have some questions

User was warned for this post
MBH
Profile Joined January 2011
Ireland796 Posts
January 13 2012 22:08 GMT
#13183
So, im high right now and all I can think about is this song:



Is that weird? Cuz I thing it damn well is.
YouGotNothin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States907 Posts
January 14 2012 06:33 GMT
#13184
I just had the most craziest experience happen to me but I am too high to explain now and must play LoL!!!
I got nothin'...
Dizmaul
Profile Joined March 2010
United States831 Posts
January 14 2012 16:56 GMT
#13185
Question for you guys. Is the temperature of the smoke effected by the tool used to ignite it? For instance does a lighter make the smoke hotter then a match?
It is what it is
Terrakin
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1440 Posts
January 14 2012 17:43 GMT
#13186
On January 15 2012 01:56 Dizmaul wrote:
Question for you guys. Is the temperature of the smoke effected by the tool used to ignite it? For instance does a lighter make the smoke hotter then a match?

generally the larger the flame the hotter it is (only exception I can think of is concentrated butane lighters), the hot smoke only matters through dry pieces or bubblers imo since water diffusion can kill the heat.

If anyone is wondering about a soldering iron/hakko I highly recommend it, I heat it up over the bowl and inhale to vape it for a sec and then take a nice hit. hakko is also great if you like oils/hashish so you can full melt bubble that goodness without catching a flame and ruining your shit.
Fame was like a drug. But what was even more like a drug were the drugs.
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
January 14 2012 17:48 GMT
#13187
On January 10 2012 06:52 Rob28 wrote:
I have this theory that smoking weed causes my concious and unconcious mind to operate independently from each other. I've noticed that I am able to develop complex and deep thoughts while high (an action by my concious mind), but also that I can react and operate on auto-pilot simultaneously and just as easily (unconcious mind).

For instance, I can hold a conversation with my friend on existentialism and the finer points of the universe, while racking up 500 note streaks on Guitar Hero 6 on Expert. Sober, I can do one or the other, but not both.

Also, I do well on FPS games requiring reflexes and instinct, but not RTS games requiring forethought and strategy. It doesn't help that I have a 5 second memory when high. I can be watching a TV show, then immediately forget eveything I've seen (let alone what show I'm watching) during a commercial break.

Anybody else have similar experiences?


Yea, rob I gotta say I have similar experiences. I honestly get better at TF2: I play spy and being stoned makes me lose all rage from dieing, focus on the moment, and have more patience. I wish I could stream TF2, cause playing spy is so fun and I think people would watch.

In SC2, some elements of being stoned help me: I am more clear headed, rage less and am more willing to accept and understand losses, as well as change my strategies, but I'm slower and much more forgetful. I'll scout way too early (day9 daily!!!) or I'll build a refinery before a barracks. I make a ton of mechanical mistakes while stoned, but Im way more focused on the game itself. i might win the game microing the fuck out of 2 hellions, but Im gathering 1000 minerals behind it, something that would never happen with sober Techno.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
Dizmaul
Profile Joined March 2010
United States831 Posts
January 14 2012 17:51 GMT
#13188
On January 15 2012 02:43 Terrakin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 01:56 Dizmaul wrote:
Question for you guys. Is the temperature of the smoke effected by the tool used to ignite it? For instance does a lighter make the smoke hotter then a match?

generally the larger the flame the hotter it is (only exception I can think of is concentrated butane lighters), the hot smoke only matters through dry pieces or bubblers imo since water diffusion can kill the heat.

If anyone is wondering about a soldering iron/hakko I highly recommend it, I heat it up over the bowl and inhale to vape it for a sec and then take a nice hit. hakko is also great if you like oils/hashish so you can full melt bubble that goodness without catching a flame and ruining your shit.


Was that a yes or a no? hah

I understand that different flames have different temp. That's why I'm asking if it affects the smokes temp. For the sake of the question lets only talk about through dry pieces.
It is what it is
Terrakin
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1440 Posts
January 14 2012 18:09 GMT
#13189
On January 15 2012 02:51 Dizmaul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 02:43 Terrakin wrote:
On January 15 2012 01:56 Dizmaul wrote:
Question for you guys. Is the temperature of the smoke effected by the tool used to ignite it? For instance does a lighter make the smoke hotter then a match?

generally the larger the flame the hotter it is (only exception I can think of is concentrated butane lighters), the hot smoke only matters through dry pieces or bubblers imo since water diffusion can kill the heat.

If anyone is wondering about a soldering iron/hakko I highly recommend it, I heat it up over the bowl and inhale to vape it for a sec and then take a nice hit. hakko is also great if you like oils/hashish so you can full melt bubble that goodness without catching a flame and ruining your shit.


Was that a yes or a no? hah

I understand that different flames have different temp. That's why I'm asking if it affects the smokes temp. For the sake of the question lets only talk about through dry pieces.

Through a dry piece alone it will matter but only for taste. The hotter it is the harder it is to enjoy the taste.

and yes a lighter is hotter than a match (after you burn the phosphorous tip).
Fame was like a drug. But what was even more like a drug were the drugs.
CaptainBoner
Profile Joined November 2011
Vatican City State81 Posts
January 16 2012 18:50 GMT
#13190
i think im tripping from weed hahaa its wierd theres bubbles in my vision
n0ise
Profile Joined April 2010
3452 Posts
January 18 2012 19:38 GMT
#13191
guys quick bakexperiment with a couple of friends - could you please listen+rate (1 - 5 whatever) the following song? (I think it's in the dubstep ballpark? wouldn't call it that tho)

http://soundcloud.com/barosanuno1/ef-pe-pacific
Crakalaka
Profile Joined January 2012
United States31 Posts
January 18 2012 22:39 GMT
#13192
I am so addicted. I wasted all my money, I was sitting in a corner, leaning against the wall, waiting for my dealer to get there. They called him Ted, he had me calling him 'daddy' that night. I had to suck his balls for a sack of weed.

A sack for a sack.

Okay I'm obviously joking but someone once told me a story like that and I was like "are you sure it wasn't CRACK that you were sucking his dick for... cause I wouldn't be on my knees getting my gag reflex tested if it was for just a sack lolol"

I am high right now.
RIGHT,
...wait
okay Im back. now.
Terrakin
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1440 Posts
January 19 2012 21:11 GMT
#13193
I found a great essay about cannabis I thought you guys might enjoy

Mr. X by Carl Sagan
+ Show Spoiler +
It all began about ten years ago. I had reached a considerably more relaxed period in my life – a time when I had come to feel that there was more to living than science, a time of awakening of my social consciousness and amiability, a time when I was open to new experiences. I had become friendly with a group of people who occasionally smoked cannabis, irregularly, but with evident pleasure. Initially I was unwilling to partake, but the apparent euphoria that cannabis produced and the fact that there was no physiological addiction to the plant eventually persuaded me to try. My initial experiences were entirely disappointing; there was no effect at all, and I began to entertain a variety of hypotheses about cannabis being a placebo which worked by expectation and hyperventilation rather than by chemistry. After about five or six unsuccessful attempts, however, it happened. I was lying on my back in a friend’s living room idly examining the pattern of shadows on the ceiling cast by a potted plant (not cannabis!). I suddenly realized that I was examining an intricately detailed miniature Volkswagen, distinctly outlined by the shadows. I was very skeptical at this perception, and tried to find inconsistencies between Volkswagens and what I viewed on the ceiling. But it was all there, down to hubcaps, license plate, chrome, and even the small handle used for opening the trunk. When I closed my eyes, I was stunned to find that there was a movie going on the inside of my eyelids. Flash . . . a simple country scene with red farmhouse, a blue sky, white clouds, yellow path meandering over green hills to the horizon. . . Flash . . . same scene, orange house, brown sky, red clouds, yellow path, violet fields . . . Flash . . . Flash . . . Flash. The flashes came about once a heartbeat. Each flash brought the same simple scene into view, but each time with a different set of colors . . . exquisitely deep hues, and astonishingly harmonious in their juxtaposition. Since then I have smoked occasionally and enjoyed it thoroughly. It amplifies torpid sensibilities and produces what to me are even more interesting effects, as I will explain shortly.

I can remember another early visual experience with cannabis, in which I viewed a candle flame and discovered in the heart of the flame, standing with magnificent indifference, the black-hatted and -cloaked Spanish gentleman who appears on the label of the Sandeman sherry bottle. Looking at fires when high, by the way, especially through one of those prism kaleidoscopes which image their surroundings, is an extraordinarily moving and beautiful experience.

I want to explain that at no time did I think these things ‘really’ were out there. I knew there was no Volkswagen on the ceiling and there was no Sandeman salamander man in the flame. I don’t feel any contradiction in these experiences. There’s a part of me making, creating the perceptions which in everyday life would be bizarre; there’s another part of me which is a kind of observer. About half of the pleasure comes from the observer-part appreciating the work of the creator-part. I smile, or sometimes even laugh out loud at the pictures on the insides of my eyelids. In this sense, I suppose cannabis is psychotomimetic, but I find none of the panic or terror that accompanies some psychoses. Possibly this is because I know it’s my own trip, and that I can come down rapidly any time I want to.

While my early perceptions were all visual, and curiously lacking in images of human beings, both of these items have changed over the intervening years. I find that today a single joint is enough to get me high. I test whether I’m high by closing my eyes and looking for the flashes. They come long before there are any alterations in my visual or other perceptions. I would guess this is a signal-to-noise problem, the visual noise level being very low with my eyes closed. Another interesting information-theoretical aspects is the prevalence – at least in my flashed images – of cartoons: just the outlines of figures, caricatures, not photographs. I think this is simply a matter of information compression; it would be impossible to grasp the total content of an image with the information content of an ordinary photograph, say 108 bits, in the fraction of a second which a flash occupies. And the flash experience is designed, if I may use that word, for instant appreciation. The artist and viewer are one. This is not to say that the images are not marvelously detailed and complex. I recently had an image in which two people were talking, and the words they were saying would form and disappear in yellow above their heads, at about a sentence per heartbeat. In this way it was possible to follow the conversation. At the same time an occasional word would appear in red letters among the yellows above their heads, perfectly in context with the conversation; but if one remembered these red words, they would enunciate a quite different set of statements, penetratingly critical of the conversation. The entire image set which I’ve outlined here, with I would say at least 100 yellow words and something like 10 red words, occurred in something under a minute.

The cannabis experience has greatly improved my appreciation for art, a subject which I had never much appreciated before. The understanding of the intent of the artist which I can achieve when high sometimes carries over to when I’m down. This is one of many human frontiers which cannabis has helped me traverse. There also have been some art-related insights – I don’t know whether they are true or false, but they were fun to formulate. For example, I have spent some time high looking at the work of the Belgian surrealist Yves Tanguey. Some years later, I emerged from a long swim in the Caribbean and sank exhausted onto a beach formed from the erosion of a nearby coral reef. In idly examining the arcuate pastel-colored coral fragments which made up the beach, I saw before me a vast Tanguey painting. Perhaps Tanguey visited such a beach in his childhood.

A very similar improvement in my appreciation of music has occurred with cannabis. For the first time I have been able to hear the separate parts of a three-part harmony and the richness of the counterpoint. I have since discovered that professional musicians can quite easily keep many separate parts going simultaneously in their heads, but this was the first time for me. Again, the learning experience when high has at least to some extent carried over when I’m down. The enjoyment of food is amplified; tastes and aromas emerge that for some reason we ordinarily seem to be too busy to notice. I am able to give my full attention to the sensation. A potato will have a texture, a body, and taste like that of other potatoes, but much more so. Cannabis also enhances the enjoyment of sex – on the one hand it gives an exquisite sensitivity, but on the other hand it postpones orgasm: in part by distracting me with the profusion of image passing before my eyes. The actual duration of orgasm seems to lengthen greatly, but this may be the usual experience of time expansion which comes with cannabis smoking.

I do not consider myself a religious person in the usual sense, but there is a religious aspect to some highs. The heightened sensitivity in all areas gives me a feeling of communion with my surroundings, both animate and inanimate. Sometimes a kind of existential perception of the absurd comes over me and I see with awful certainty the hypocrisies and posturing of myself and my fellow men. And at other times, there is a different sense of the absurd, a playful and whimsical awareness. Both of these senses of the absurd can be communicated, and some of the most rewarding highs I’ve had have been in sharing talk and perceptions and humor. Cannabis brings us an awareness that we spend a lifetime being trained to overlook and forget and put out of our minds. A sense of what the world is really like can be maddening; cannabis has brought me some feelings for what it is like to be crazy, and how we use that word ‘crazy’ to avoid thinking about things that are too painful for us. In the Soviet Union political dissidents are routinely placed in insane asylums. The same kind of thing, a little more subtle perhaps, occurs here: ‘did you hear what Lenny Bruce said yesterday? He must be crazy.’ When high on cannabis I discovered that there’s somebody inside in those people we call mad.

When I’m high I can penetrate into the past, recall childhood memories, friends, relatives, playthings, streets, smells, sounds, and tastes from a vanished era. I can reconstruct the actual occurrences in childhood events only half understood at the time. Many but not all my cannabis trips have somewhere in them a symbolism significant to me which I won’t attempt to describe here, a kind of mandala embossed on the high. Free-associating to this mandala, both visually and as plays on words, has produced a very rich array of insights.

There is a myth about such highs: the user has an illusion of great insight, but it does not survive scrutiny in the morning. I am convinced that this is an error, and that the devastating insights achieved when high are real insights; the main problem is putting these insights in a form acceptable to the quite different self that we are when we’re down the next day. Some of the hardest work I’ve ever done has been to put such insights down on tape or in writing. The problem is that ten even more interesting ideas or images have to be lost in the effort of recording one. It is easy to understand why someone might think it’s a waste of effort going to all that trouble to set the thought down, a kind of intrusion of the Protestant Ethic. But since I live almost all my life down I’ve made the effort – successfully, I think. Incidentally, I find that reasonably good insights can be remembered the next day, but only if some effort has been made to set them down another way. If I write the insight down or tell it to someone, then I can remember it with no assistance the following morning; but if I merely say to myself that I must make an effort to remember, I never do.

I find that most of the insights I achieve when high are into social issues, an area of creative scholarship very different from the one I am generally known for. I can remember one occasion, taking a shower with my wife while high, in which I had an idea on the origins and invalidities of racism in terms of gaussian distribution curves. It was a point obvious in a way, but rarely talked about. I drew the curves in soap on the shower wall, and went to write the idea down. One idea led to another, and at the end of about an hour of extremely hard work I found I had written eleven short essays on a wide range of social, political, philosophical, and human biological topics. Because of problems of space, I can’t go into the details of these essays, but from all external signs, such as public reactions and expert commentary, they seem to contain valid insights. I have used them in university commencement addresses, public lectures, and in my books.

But let me try to at least give the flavor of such an insight and its accompaniments. One night, high on cannabis, I was delving into my childhood, a little self-analysis, and making what seemed to me to be very good progress. I then paused and thought how extraordinary it was that Sigmund Freud, with no assistance from drugs, had been able to achieve his own remarkable self-analysis. But then it hit me like a thunderclap that this was wrong, that Freud had spent the decade before his self-analysis as an experimenter with and a proselytizer for cocaine; and it seemed to me very apparent that the genuine psychological insights that Freud brought to the world were at least in part derived from his drug experience. I have no idea whether this is in fact true, or whether the historians of Freud would agree with this interpretation, or even if such an idea has been published in the past, but it is an interesting hypothesis and one which passes first scrutiny in the world of the downs.

I can remember the night that I suddenly realized what it was like to be crazy, or nights when my feelings and perceptions were of a religious nature. I had a very accurate sense that these feelings and perceptions, written down casually, would not stand the usual critical scrutiny that is my stock in trade as a scientist. If I find in the morning a message from myself the night before informing me that there is a world around us which we barely sense, or that we can become one with the universe, or even that certain politicians are desperately frightened men, I may tend to disbelieve; but when I’m high I know about this disbelief. And so I have a tape in which I exhort myself to take such remarks seriously. I say ‘Listen closely, you sonofabitch of the morning! This stuff is real!’ I try to show that my mind is working clearly; I recall the name of a high school acquaintance I have not thought of in thirty years; I describe the color, typography, and format of a book in another room and these memories do pass critical scrutiny in the morning. I am convinced that there are genuine and valid levels of perception available with cannabis (and probably with other drugs) which are, through the defects of our society and our educational system, unavailable to us without such drugs. Such a remark applies not only to self-awareness and to intellectual pursuits, but also to perceptions of real people, a vastly enhanced sensitivity to facial expression, intonations, and choice of words which sometimes yields a rapport so close it’s as if two people are reading each other’s minds.

Cannabis enables nonmusicians to know a little about what it is like to be a musician, and nonartists to grasp the joys of art. But I am neither an artist nor a musician. What about my own scientific work? While I find a curious disinclination to think of my professional concerns when high – the attractive intellectual adventures always seem to be in every other area – I have made a conscious effort to think of a few particularly difficult current problems in my field when high. It works, at least to a degree. I find I can bring to bear, for example, a range of relevant experimental facts which appear to be mutually inconsistent. So far, so good. At least the recall works. Then in trying to conceive of a way of reconciling the disparate facts, I was able to come up with a very bizarre possibility, one that I’m sure I would never have thought of down. I’ve written a paper which mentions this idea in passing. I think it’s very unlikely to be true, but it has consequences which are experimentally testable, which is the hallmark of an acceptable theory.

I have mentioned that in the cannabis experience there is a part of your mind that remains a dispassionate observer, who is able to take you down in a hurry if need be. I have on a few occasions been forced to drive in heavy traffic when high. I’ve negotiated it with no difficult at all, though I did have some thoughts about the marvelous cherry-red color of traffic lights. I find that after the drive I’m not high at all. There are no flashes on the insides of my eyelids. If you’re high and your child is calling, you can respond about as capably as you usually do. I don’t advocate driving when high on cannabis, but I can tell you from personal experience that it certainly can be done. My high is always reflective, peaceable, intellectually exciting, and sociable, unlike most alcohol highs, and there is never a hangover. Through the years I find that slightly smaller amounts of cannabis suffice to produce the same degree of high, and in one movie theater recently I found I could get high just by inhaling the cannabis smoke which permeated the theater.

There is a very nice self-titering aspect to cannabis. Each puff is a very small dose; the time lag between inhaling a puff and sensing its effect is small; and there is no desire for more after the high is there. I think the ratio, R, of the time to sense the dose taken to the time required to take an excessive dose is an important quantity. R is very large for LSD (which I’ve never taken) and reasonably short for cannabis. Small values of R should be one measure of the safety of psychedelic drugs. When cannabis is legalized, I hope to see this ratio as one of he parameters printed on the pack. I hope that time isn’t too distant; the illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.

http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/
Fame was like a drug. But what was even more like a drug were the drugs.
Rebornlife
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada224 Posts
January 19 2012 21:31 GMT
#13194
Just bought a da budda vape yesterday, the best money i have ever spent. I HIGHly reccommend everyone to buy a vaporizer. Much MUCH better for you health wise, you conserve your weed, and it gets you blitzed as fuck with no coughing or harshness. Plus almost no smell!
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-20 11:13:13
January 20 2012 11:12 GMT
#13195
So I just drove to the local internet cafe having a smoking sesh on the way and I sit down at the computer, turn it on and load up teamliquid.




And you know what the first Google ad I see is?

"Drug Driving ... Have your say about this issue bla bla bla"

Google is too fucking scary sometimes.

Ps- And then I was so high I did a search for "high street" instead of "high thread".
MrTortoise
Profile Joined January 2011
1388 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-20 11:37:15
January 20 2012 11:19 GMT
#13196
deepnds on what you are smoking - problem with matches is that everythign thereafter tastes of matches.

different things burn at different temps ... thc for wexample vaporises at around 180 celcius which is far before the flash point of ignition o fthe vapour given off. Wehn you go upto 200-220 you cn actually see the ifference in coloration of the material as different parts are vaporised (or burnt without combustion)

So the temp of the heating instrument does make a difference. A good example would be with heavy oils. You can set the surface of soem of them alight because the smaller oils in the mix will vaporise and combust wheras the temp given off by these small oils is not sufficient to do the same to the larger oils.

The same is true with your smoke ... if you use the right kind of soldering iron (they ahve different temps depending on the type of solder) you can choose what parts you smoke.

There can be potential benefits to using a non combustion based smoking mechanism as a lot of the really nasty shit is a direct result of combustion causing all kinds of ionised particles which are highly reactive.

I dont think any real studies have been done that demonstrate that vaporising is better for you long term though. I would be shocked if it wasnt though.

As for temperature of flame ... it also depends on what you are smoking. But i bet you can get all that tarry ash to burn more if you heat it up sufficiently. Not that you woudl want to though.

Compare cigs with rollies ... they burn at different temps ... cigs have material in them that burns sufficiently strongly so that they never go out. The thing is once you get a vapour past its flash point the energy release is usually large enough to cause other things to hit their flash points also. Its jus ta case of finding a big enough gap so that not all the flashpoints are hit. At which point different temp flames will make a diff to the smoke (ie if you use a oxybutol welding torch your smoke will be different )


I used to make vaporisers out of soldering irons and bottle caps. They are a rip off in the shops imo (when you go past £200) - having bought oen for christmas (and it is very good dont get me wrong - but i come from doing buckets and shotty bottles so im used to a little more insta kick - with vaporisers i can emulate much of the effect by simply breathing through a straw for a few mins). ... 1 plastic lunch box, 1 soldering iron, 1 bottlecap, 1 picke jar and 2m of plastic tubing (oh and the jar lid as a mount onto the plastic bix with a couple of small nuts+bolts). One of my reasons bot not being 100% vaporiser is that i find i do get higher off a joint - but then that has nocotine and tobacco etc - you knwo that bad shit you dont want ;p
Terrakin
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1440 Posts
January 20 2012 20:31 GMT
#13197
if anyone has a problem with cannabis not ashing white (burning completely) the stuff you are getting still have fertilizer in them. to get rid of the nutes/water/chlorophyll do a water cure, it is very easy.

to water cure
+ Show Spoiler +

submerge cannabis in water just enough to cover all surface, I use a small jar and glass piece to weigh down plant, you don't want to cover the lid.

first 24 hours drain water twice whenever you have time.

every day for 6 more days replace water once. (4 is ok if you are in a rush, but I like 6...)

your cannabis will expand a lot, and the water will be a lot less murky since most of the chlorophyll has left.

last stage is drying. you can do this a number of ways but you have to get it all dry before 30 hours in case of mold.

I use computer exhaust with the plant spread evenly wrapped in soft towel or paper towel


what changes with water cure
+ Show Spoiler +

cannabis weight is lowered due to cleaning of nutrients/fertilizers, extra water weight if not dried properly, and chlorophyll.

cannabis taste and smoke is more mild, which is good for public or concealed smoking, however different taste traits like cheese/blueberry will be lessened... I don't know why though.

curing with water can achieve the same golden bud that jar curing for 1+ year does
Fame was like a drug. But what was even more like a drug were the drugs.
Unhallowed
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada171 Posts
January 20 2012 21:07 GMT
#13198
I got high and macro'd to 4 base nukes for like 1 year and went from bronze to masters. I fucking love a good nuke after a good bowl!
What is evil but good tortured by it's own hunger and thirst?
rel
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Guam3521 Posts
January 22 2012 02:21 GMT
#13199
Know whats cool? Being happy ALL the time1 =]
I'll tank push my way into her heart. ☮♥&$!
Wooka
Profile Joined September 2011
United States8 Posts
January 22 2012 05:29 GMT
#13200
hahaha the guy on the bottom reminds me of what i would do if the police caught me high,
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136013&currentpage=741
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