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On January 09 2016 12:44 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 06:27 Nyxisto wrote:
There is no automatic process that leads from being a cultural distinct group, or being poor, to terrorism. Even extremism isn't the same thing as terrorism. The overwhelming majority of political or religious fundamentalists aren't violent. It is absolutely nonsensical to throw every topic together. And personal experiences or anger generally are very bad starting points for policy making. Also as I said before rape and sexual assault are very common. Every third women in Europe will experience sexual assault in their lifetime, another reason why we shouldn't be so quick handing out the judgments and utilizing crime as a to conjure up images of the savage foreigner.
If we're discussing sexual assault in a society we should discuss it as the systemic issue that it is. Many people have accused feminists of being "too silent" in this debate and obviously they are, because they have been pointing at this issue for decades to very little effect. It shouldn't come as a surprise that feminists aren't joining in on a debate that basically orbits around the idea of "only we are allowed to rape our women" I understand the reasoning behind a lot of what you're saying, but there's one problem I have: It doesn't allow for there to ever be a breaking point. This idea of unrelenting giving and hospitality doesn't make sense. There should never be the kind of absolute forgiveness that you are conveying. Statistics are showing many sexual assaults, a notable spike as a result of migrants. What if reports showed there were 2000 extra rapes in Germany as a result of taking in 400,000 migrants? What if it was 100,000 extra rapes? I realize 100,000 is totally unreasonable, but my point is that your line of thinking does not seem to allow for there being a tipping point. You aren't allowing for there to be a potential outcome where there's no way out, where it isn't possible to help the world while still preserving your own country's safety. You are holding on to the idea that if we just try out damned best and give it our all, we can help the world and not lose ourselves along the way. However, I really do not see the world as forgiving and blessed. How many migrants are worth an innocent EU native being raped? Does it make sense to allow for 1 German teenager to be raped if it means 30 migrants? What is your conversion factor? If every migrant ended up raping 1 teenager, I am sure you would be against it. You would not advocate for shipping in truck loads of rapists. So where do you draw the line? Do you see what I mean when I say there is a certain cost that is being paid? We can say with 100% certainty that these migrants are more sexually deviant, as a whole, than your typical German population, meaning we are in essence agreeing to raise the rate of sexual assault by taking in large numbers of migrants. So what is your cutoff? When do you say it's too much rape?
A good question to ask. Especially considering that those numbers will still rise, and even worse, nobody will know about that, as is getting more and more clear now.
Media, police etc knowingly withholding nationalities or straight up bullshitting to prevent to paint a "anti-refugee picture". You look at what happened in cologne (one week after it happened, sad enough) - and then you read what an anonymous cop tells you: that everything the media says is bullshit. They did know nationalities on the 1.1. The media said it was primarily pickpocketing with added sexual assault, the reality is that it's the other way around (the way those crimes were done are common in arabic countries, for example Kairo). Other than media suggested, most of the people checked by the police (which they did, other than media reported) were syrians, not africans - most of which identified themselves with a document that says that they're in germany for less than three months. Officials NOW state, out of 32 identified, 22 are syrian refugees.
It's disgusting to see how germany bends over backwards to cater to people who behave like animals. Literally like animals. Of course not every refugee is a criminal, to prevent our fellow whiteknights to strawman again: but if you know that there's quite a few coming with them, you make sure that every person that comes into the country is properly registered. Unlike the 4 syrian refugees who raped the 14-15 year old girls btw, which were partially illegal in germany.
It's actually the first time that i think that the american idea of citizen militias is a good idea. That's how bad it has gotten.
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don't worry, Merkel will build them brothels; state subsidized obviously.
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On January 09 2016 10:56 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 09:35 WhiteDog wrote:
That's actually quite a good post, I agree with most of it, but just to point out something : the immigrants actually are less problematic than their kids. Because the immigrants, mostly, want to integrate, and even if there are indeed problems, they usually lay low and adopt the behaviors of a minority, conscious of its position and acknowledging its domination. For the kids of the immigrants, born in the country, the question is even more problematic : they are torn between their desire to be part of the nation that welcomed their parents and the desire to defend the dignity of their parents, culturally dominated, especially for old colonies. Add to that the fact that Islam, like most religion, is rather conquerant. There is also the reality of everyday 'systemic racism' that every immigrant child will experience sooner or later. When you are taught that all men are equal and your destiny is only determined by your character, when everybody tells you with a straight face that this country respects all cultures because it does not divide the population into groups but sees every human as an individual and then you grow up and apply for a job for the first time or get in contact with the police for example and you realize most of it was bullshit, wrong name, wrong address, wrong clothes, wrong skin color, you become disillusioned and sometimes radicalize. Individual rights are just words on a piece of paper, it is the everyday reality that defines a society. For the first generation immigrant it was somewhat acceptable to be treated like a special group of people. After all they did move into a different culture and did have objective disadvantages like language that held them back. But for the second generation it is not acceptable at all, they were born here just like everybody else but get treated like they were not.
There are two types of racism, true racism based on skin colour and statistical racism based on the higher probability of something negative in a certain group of people. If I know that when I hire a swedish person I have a 1/10 chance of getting a problem worker and if I hire an immigrant I have a 2/10 chance then most people will hire the swede because the risk is half as high.
This system will remain in place untill both groups are even and people have noticed that.
Now the problem is that when 2nd gen immigrants live in communities you get schools were people speak arabic instead of Swedish and 30 % have passing grades. There are no unskilled jobs in Sweden today and you can perhaps get a job at MaCdonalds with those grades. Because who would hire an immigrant with poor swedish and low grades while there are unemployed young swedes who know 3 languages and have a degree from uni. Thats not racism thats common sense.
We have tried giving the schools 10x the amount of money and we have tried paying 75 % of the wages from the goverment but it doesnt help.
So were back to taking of the silk gloves and
1) forcing people to learn the language.
2) not allowing people to live in closed cultural communities by choosing where they live
3) punishing wrong behaviour clearly
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Wouldn't surprise me. After all, refugee camps are a sausage fest, so i assume that some people actually would consider bullshit like that.
My 61 year old mother now armed herself with a police trained german shephard (daughter in law trains them), My 28 year old sister (blonde, slender) is fucking scared to go on the streets and partying at night. Like, literally not going out anymore, and is considering arming herself with a gun (the ones that shoot gas, no idea what they're called in english).
And then you have people that suggest that there's no problems, or "we'll manage". So far we have not managed anything, refugee camps are violent shitholes (people will argue now that we obviously need to build better accomodations..), women get assaulted in a dimension i've not yet seen before, but as long as Lala-Merkel firmly believes that all is good, well.. Guess, can't argue with that.
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http://www.politico.eu/article/cologne-police-chief-forced-out-asylum-seekers-sexual-assaults-new-years-eve/ BERLIN — Asylum seekers were among those suspected of involvement in mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Year’s Eve, the German government said Friday, as the fallout from the attacks resulted in the local police chief being forced to resign.
A spokesperson for the interior ministry said the federal police had identified 31 suspects, including nine Algerians, eight Moroccans, five Iranians and four Syrians. Of the 31 alleged attackers, 18 were said to be asylum seekers. Three of the 31 have been charged with sexual assault.
Friday’s announcement was the first official confirmation that asylum seekers were involved, following leaked police reports in German media. According to local broadcaster WDR, the local Cologne police force took down the names of 71 suspects on New Year’s Eve, of which the majority “could only identify themselves with their registration receipt issued by the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees, which identified them as asylum seekers.”
http://www.politico.eu/article/refugee-cologne-sex-attack-frau-merkel-de-maiziere-rape/ For many Germans, the events in Cologne have confirmed suspicions that men from the Middle East do not respect the independence and freedom that Western women enjoy.
“They have a completely different view of women than we do here,” Heinz Buschkowski, a prominent Social Democrat and expert on Germany’s Muslim population, told German radio Thursday. “Women who are on the street at 1 a.m. or 1:30 a.m. are considered whores and German women are generally considered fair game.”
Such views, which evoke old stereotypes of dark-skinned men out to prey on white women, have mainly been shared behind closed doors in recent months as Germans embraced the Willkommenskultur(welcoming culture). The Cologne attacks have brought the concerns into the open.
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ok maybe that is just a very small % of refugees are doing the horrible stuff but it is still horrifying. Do we have any locals here just so we can know how exactly true of these news/reports about how bad the situation affects common people lives (for example, cologne? berlin?). Jesus christ i love berlin.
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On January 09 2016 18:28 BurningSera wrote:
ok maybe that is just a very small % of refugees are doing the horrible stuff but it is still horrifying. Do we have any locals here just so we can know how exactly true of these news/reports about how bad the situation affects common people lives (for example, cologne? berlin?). Jesus christ i love berlin.
I´m not living in Cologne, but my girlfriend now avoids bigger groups of only men more than before, espescially if they consist only of foreign looking people. She is not alone in this. A survey shows that 30% of the german population want to avoid bigger groups of people. If you differentiate between men and woman, then men vote 21% and woman 37% to avoid bigger groups.
And 82% agree on the idea to enlarge video surveillance in public places.
german link: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/deutschlandtrend-465.html
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On January 09 2016 15:04 kongoline wrote:
wonder what will happen in the summer when they see them running around in short dresses, something tells me this isnt going to end well
Just let Pegida do its thing. They will surely be more honest than the State/Media reporting false information to sugar coat their policies.
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On January 09 2016 22:29 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 15:04 kongoline wrote:
wonder what will happen in the summer when they see them running around in short dresses, something tells me this isnt going to end well Just let Pegida do its thing. They will surely be more honest than the State/Media reporting false information to sugar coat their policies.
More honest? I have my doubts. We already had a case, where a woman claimed falsly that she was raped and whatnot by an immigrant. That false accusation was done in Dresden, hometown of pegida.
german link: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/dresden-frau-gibt-erfindung-von-vergewaltigung-zu-a-1064965.html
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Honest = pandering to xenophobes
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On January 09 2016 22:41 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 22:29 SoSexy wrote:On January 09 2016 15:04 kongoline wrote:
wonder what will happen in the summer when they see them running around in short dresses, something tells me this isnt going to end well Just let Pegida do its thing. They will surely be more honest than the State/Media reporting false information to sugar coat their policies. More honest? I have my doubts. We already had a case, where a woman claimed falsly that she was raped and whatnot by an immigrant. That false accusation was done in Dresden, hometown of pegida. german link: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/dresden-frau-gibt-erfindung-von-vergewaltigung-zu-a-1064965.html
that may be the more troublesome long term development. Since I associate the "welcome culture" with the left and particularly with the Greens I would've expected these actions from a left government.
But Merkel is a conservative and there's nothing left to the right of them. Seehofer tried but he couldn't (didn't want to) overthrow Merkel.
Lucke seemed to be tame, Petry I don't know much about but now there are people like Höcke creeping from their holes.
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Let me understand this, you are german, new year's eve was as close to tragedy as possible, and your main worry is that in the future some people will fake rapes against immigrants?
Deathstar: the only xenophobia right now is that of immigrants who see western women like cattle. That is true xenophobia. Your politically correctness makes me sick.
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When are the next elections in Germany and who is leading in the polls atm?
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Xenophobia is indeed strong.
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On January 10 2016 00:37 Sent. wrote:
When are the next elections in Germany and who is leading in the polls atm?
"If federal elections would take place next Sunday..."
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
Top two Conservatives and Social Democrats, then in that order Greens, Liberals, Left, right-wing (Ukip like), others
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On January 10 2016 00:03 SoSexy wrote:
Let me understand this, you are german, new year's eve was as close to tragedy as possible, and your main worry is that in the future some people will fake rapes against immigrants?
Maybe you should read more of my posts, before you insinuate THAT to be my main worry.
On January 10 2016 00:03 SoSexy wrote:
Deathstar: the only xenophobia right now is that of immigrants who see western women like cattle. That is true xenophobia. Your politically correctness makes me sick.
Ah yes, who´s the xenophobe now? *sigh* Maybe it is unclear, what xenophobia means?
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On January 09 2016 22:41 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 22:29 SoSexy wrote:On January 09 2016 15:04 kongoline wrote:
wonder what will happen in the summer when they see them running around in short dresses, something tells me this isnt going to end well Just let Pegida do its thing. They will surely be more honest than the State/Media reporting false information to sugar coat their policies. More honest? I have my doubts. We already had a case, where a woman claimed falsly that she was raped and whatnot by an immigrant. That false accusation was done in Dresden, hometown of pegida. german link: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/dresden-frau-gibt-erfindung-von-vergewaltigung-zu-a-1064965.html
A drip in the ocean, though.
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On January 10 2016 01:18 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 00:03 SoSexy wrote:
Let me understand this, you are german, new year's eve was as close to tragedy as possible, and your main worry is that in the future some people will fake rapes against immigrants? Maybe you should read more of my posts, before you insinuate THAT to be my main worry. Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 00:03 SoSexy wrote:
Deathstar: the only xenophobia right now is that of immigrants who see western women like cattle. That is true xenophobia. Your politically correctness makes me sick. Ah yes, who´s the xenophobe now? *sigh* Maybe it is unclear, what xenophobia means?
Yes, maybe it is unclear and you should take a read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia
Did you know that it does not work only one way?
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On January 10 2016 00:03 SoSexy wrote:
Let me understand this, you are german, new year's eve was as close to tragedy as possible, and your main worry is that in the future some people will fake rapes against immigrants?
Deathstar: the only xenophobia right now is that of immigrants who see western women like cattle. That is true xenophobia. Your politically correctness makes me sick.
You're the embodiment of xenophobia in this thread.
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EPT
