EPTIt is also very hard to distinguish societal pressure from genuine choice here. I think women should not be forced to completely cover themselves, but i also think that they should have the right to do so if they wish to. Which means that pretty much the only solution to this conundrum can come from Muslim women actively fighting against headscarves. If they do not do that, it feels demeaning to think that you should be able to make their choice for them, and is probably not very respectful either.
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 31
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11638 Posts
It is also very hard to distinguish societal pressure from genuine choice here. I think women should not be forced to completely cover themselves, but i also think that they should have the right to do so if they wish to. Which means that pretty much the only solution to this conundrum can come from Muslim women actively fighting against headscarves. If they do not do that, it feels demeaning to think that you should be able to make their choice for them, and is probably not very respectful either. | ||
|
Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On January 14 2015 00:12 Ricjames wrote: You are right, i was exaggerating a little inspired by the past. The fertility rates are lower now everywhere, but Islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world and in Europe. I respect everyone's right to their own religion. However i do not accept if it would affect me or other people in any kind of a way. I do not accept women walking around with fully covered faces. There is a difference between the growth of the religion and that of the population. Globally, Islam is the fastest growing religion in terms of percentage, christianity the fastest growing religion in terms of numbers. Islam grows about 2%/year, christianity is a little under 1.5%. With 33% of the population christian and 21% muslim, that means +25M christians and +22M muslims a year. (I didn't find a source I liked, but same numbers can be found in most of them, for example dedicated site or wiki) Of course, locally the growth rate difference can be much larger and this is the case in a number of western countries. That will probably mean a significant shift in those populations during the XXIst century to which we will have to adapt. Then again, population and its beliefs are expected to change with time. I don't think you can refuse to be affected by the rest of the population of the country you live in (and their religion is just one of many points of concern here). Up to you to see in which form it influences you: you can be affected by allocating more time fighting against change, by accepting change or by ignoring it. Most of us do all the above, depending on how concerned we are by the subject. | ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On January 14 2015 00:12 Ricjames wrote: However i do not accept if it would affect me or other people in any kind of a way. I do not accept women walking around with fully covered faces. What if its their choice, why does your right to be offended by fully covered faces superseded their right to decide to cover | ||
|
Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
White fuckers scared that they'll be a minority for a change, living the life that every other minority has had to for hundreds of years | ||
|
L1ghtning
Sweden353 Posts
On January 14 2015 06:21 Zealos wrote: Why is it so scary to be "overrun" by muslims lol. White fuckers scared that they'll be a minority for a change, living the life that every other minority has had to for hundreds of years lol, you for real? And you're a racist too. Noone treats minorities better than european nations (and colonies). I really like how you say "has had to". So, they've been forced to live here? Unless you're talking about slaves, I can't see how this could be accurate. And slavery has pretty much been a non-factor in Europe for like 1000 years. | ||
|
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
Seriously, how stupid are you? | ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
https://twitter.com/presidentaz/status/554895652828631040 | ||
|
Sent.
Poland9249 Posts
| ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On January 14 2015 09:16 Sent. wrote: You made me check if Azerbaijan is a monarchy... It is when father passes on his position to his son, no? | ||
|
Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
| ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 14 2015 08:55 Sub40APM wrote: Speaking of stupid things, here is the King of Azerbaijan insulting Armenia. https://twitter.com/presidentaz/status/554895652828631040 https://twitter.com/presidentaz/status/554895652828631040 this is medieval stuff. | ||
|
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
| ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
| ||
|
Doublemint
Austria8643 Posts
On January 14 2015 09:26 Sub40APM wrote: It is when father passes on his position to his son, no? well... the Bush family comes to mind ^^ | ||
|
maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On January 14 2015 06:21 Zealos wrote: Why is it so scary to be "overrun" by muslims lol. White fuckers scared that they'll be a minority for a change, living the life that every other minority has had to for hundreds of years I don't want to sound like a nationalist, but the minorities in the home countries of those white fuckers get more chances, freedom and care than white fuckers ever would in the home country those minorities come from. That's not to say that there isn't a problem of discrimination, but migrants and minorities here receive plenty of chances, support and protection. | ||
|
zeo
Serbia6319 Posts
| ||
|
Doublemint
Austria8643 Posts
On January 14 2015 19:24 zeo wrote: Why is the president of Azerbaijan writing tweets in English? That's embarrassing. he wants people to care about this bullshit tweet. | ||
|
Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
On January 14 2015 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: What if its their choice, why does your right to be offended by fully covered faces superseded their right to decide to cover To be honest - i don't care if it is their choice (due to being brainwashed since birth), i don't like it and feel offended / intimidated by it. I don't see any reason why should i tolerate something like that in my own country. For instance there is an etiquette rule in here that people should not wear any head cover (caps, hoodies, bandana, headscarfs...) when inside, especially in public buildings like schools, banks, offices and so on. People tolerate headscarfs, which I am ok with as long as i can see your whole face. This is our tradition and rule of our society. There was a case where young woman was breaking the school rules by wearing niqab and she was asked to stop or she will not be allowed into the school. She took this to a court with her lawyer and fortunately lost the case. The difference is that they came to our country and they are supposed to obbey our laws, rules, society customs and traditions. Not trying to change it or even make us submit to their rules or customs. If that makes me xenophobic or racist, then be it. | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6257 Posts
Mario Draghi won a legal endorsement as an adviser to the European Union’s top court said a bond-buying program designed to help save the euro area may only require fine tuning to bring it in line with EU law. The European Central Bank’s Outright Monetary Transactions program won the conditional backing of Advocate General Pedro Cruz Villalon of the EU Court of Justice in Luxembourg, who said the measures “in principle” are in line with the bloc’s law. “The ECB must have a broad discretion when framing and implementing the EU’s monetary policy, and the courts must exercise a considerable degree of caution when reviewing the ECB’s activity,” Cruz Villalon said in a non-binding opinion today. Such advice is followed by the court in a majority of cases. The opinion could ease pressure on ECB President Draghi days before he meets with his Governing Council to consider a separate so-called quantitative-easing package to quell the threat of deflation in the euro area. Opponents of QE had raised legal concerns as one objection. “This was definitely very good news for the ECB,” said Thomas Harjes, senior European economist at Barclays Plc (BARC) in Frankfurt. “We consider today’s opinion to be a green light for the ECB’s OMT and potential QE including government bonds and potential risk sharing in the event of a sovereign default or debt restructuring.” source | ||
|
Hoenicker
243 Posts
On January 14 2015 20:32 Ricjames wrote: To be honest - i don't care if it is their choice (due to being brainwashed since birth), i don't like it and feel offended / intimidated by it. I don't see any reason why should i tolerate something like that in my own country. For instance there is an etiquette rule in here that people should not wear any head cover (caps, hoodies, bandana, headscarfs...) when inside, especially in public buildings like schools, banks, offices and so on. People tolerate headscarfs, which I am ok with as long as i can see your whole face. This is our tradition and rule of our society. There was a case where young woman was breaking the school rules by wearing niqab and she was asked to stop or she will not be allowed into the school. She took this to a court with her lawyer and fortunately lost the case. The difference is that they came to our country and they are supposed to obbey our laws, rules, society customs and traditions. Not trying to change it or even make us submit to their rules or customs. If that makes me xenophobic or racist, then be it. Forcing people with distinct cultural differences to adhere to culture and rules that are distincly alien to them, only serves to further alienate and distance them from the (in this case) judeo-christian majority. Hence creating emotions of low self esteem, frustration, and in the end hopelesness which can lead to violence. It is a very difficult subject matter and in no way straigthforward, but accepting other peoples beliefs and customs is a start. Its difficult to draw a line and to say if you wear this you are sexist, and subjugating women, when those very women just want to wear whatever it is they want to wear. | ||
| ||
