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On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue.
I would refer you to the countless articles detailing IDF revenge killing of Palestinian civilians, but I doubt they will make any difference to you.
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On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want.
But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel.
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On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel.
If its a fringe position how come more and more of the land is being taken?
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On July 31 2014 05:16 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. If its a fringe position how come more and more of the land is being taken?
Every single one of the territorial changes happened through annexations after war. The only exception for that are the settlements in the West-Bank that make up roughly one percent of the physical territory.
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On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel.
There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum.
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On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue.
A country which imprisons 1.8 million arabs without trial and treats another 2.6 million as second class citizens. (all 4.4 million of which are not allowed to vote or have any say in their own fate).
A country which per capita and by straight numbers has killed and injured more people than Hamas.
A country which kills the leaders of its opposition and then turns around and criticizes their lack of ability to negotiate ceasefires due to their non-centralized structure.
A country which was founded on the very acts of terrorism they condemn.
Yes, you can most certainly compare Israel to Hamas.
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On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewish_Home
That's not a fringe party and, quoting wikipedia:
As the descendant of the National Religious Party, the Jewish Home is willing to cooperate with secular Israelis in governing the state, but it has not forgone its objective of creating a polity governed by Jewish law. The party's members adhere to the belief that Jews are divinely commanded to retain control over the Land of Israel. Many members have taken the lead in establishing Israeli settlements,[5] making it nearly impossible for the party to join a coalition led by the center-left political bloc.[17]
10% of the vote last election and part of the governing coalition.
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On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue.
The US presence on Thule-base in Greenland is partly because they planned to develop a missile shield. Israel is by no means the first country to ever think of doing such a thing.
The citizens of Gaza wouldn't need aid if Israel hadn't essentially made the entire Gaza-strip into the second biggest prison of the world, only surpassed by North Korea.
Let us not forget that the Zionists essentially invented modern day terrorism when Palestine was still under British mandate. Let us also not forget how big an influence those terrorist organisations have had on the governments of Israel throughout with many modern political parties stemming from these initial terrorist organisations.
Neither side in this conflict is exactly a saint, nor have they historically been one.
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On July 31 2014 05:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum.
Sure there are hawkish people, but drawing parallels between the Hamas and the current government in Israel are wrong and relativistic. Theocratic rule with and the creation of a homogeneous society is basically the rule in nearly all Arabic nations. Take a trip to Tel-Aviv and you'll encounter the exact opposite.
Israel does not want to form an exclusive Jewish society. 70% of Israelis support a two state solution, but also 85% of people support the current military operations. This genuinely is about self defense and not about creating some kind of apartheid ghetto.
On July 31 2014 05:28 Derez wrote:
That's not a fringe party and, quoting wikipedia:
10% of the vote last election and part of the governing coalition.
Geert Wilders scored equally in the Netherlands. I've yet to meet one Dutchman who supports the guy.
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On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel.
I don't know, how about the largest party in the knesset (Likud) the prime minister (who heads it) and all of the parties to the right of Likud which is considered center-right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud#Ideological_positions
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On July 31 2014 05:29 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:22 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum. Sure there are hawkish people, but drawing parallels between the Hamas and the current government in Israel are wrong and relativistic. Theocratic rule with and the creation of a homogeneous society is basically the rule in nearly all Arabic nations. Take a trip to Tel-Aviv and you'll encounter the exact opposite. Israel does not want to form an exclusive Jewish society. 70% of Israelis support a two state solution, but also 85% of people support the current military operations. This genuinely is about self defense and not about creating some kind of apartheid ghetto.
If this is about self defense then why have more Israelis died in the invasion this month than have died in the last 3 years?
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On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue.
You forget those who were forced out of their homes in 1948.
Gay friendly? Really? How's that supposed to help Palestinians?
You mean the US spends billions of dollars on Iron dome.
Excuse me if bombing UN shelters, schools, mosques, hospitals, marketplaces, homes and refugee camps from the air, sea and ground does not look like an "anti terrorist operation" to me.
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On July 31 2014 05:29 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:22 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum. Sure there are hawkish people, but drawing parallels between the Hamas and the current government in Israel are wrong and relativistic. Theocratic rule with and the creation of a homogeneous society is basically the rule in nearly all Arabic nations. Take a trip to Tel-Aviv and you'll encounter the exact opposite. Israel does not want to form an exclusive Jewish society. 70% of Israelis support a two state solution, but also 85% of people support the current military operations. This genuinely is about self defense and not about creating some kind of apartheid ghetto. Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:28 Derez wrote:
That's not a fringe party and, quoting wikipedia:
10% of the vote last election and part of the governing coalition. Geert Wilders scored equally in the Netherlands. I've yet to meet one Dutchman who supports the guy.
There was no theocratic rule in Egypt except for a year, none in Syria. Lebanon and Syria are far from homogenous societies.
You're citing what the media leads you to believe - Israel is carrying the democratic torch among the uncivilised Arab masses.
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On July 31 2014 05:32 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. I don't know, how about the largest party in the knesset (Likud) the prime minister (who heads it) and all of the parties to the right of Likud which is considered center-right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud#Ideological_positions
I don't think Likud has any racist agendas in their manifesto, neither do they justify anything on the ground of religious believes. The parties to the right of Likud don't seem to win a lot of votes.
On July 31 2014 05:33 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:29 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:22 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum. Sure there are hawkish people, but drawing parallels between the Hamas and the current government in Israel are wrong and relativistic. Theocratic rule with and the creation of a homogeneous society is basically the rule in nearly all Arabic nations. Take a trip to Tel-Aviv and you'll encounter the exact opposite. Israel does not want to form an exclusive Jewish society. 70% of Israelis support a two state solution, but also 85% of people support the current military operations. This genuinely is about self defense and not about creating some kind of apartheid ghetto. If this is about self defense then why have more Israelis died in the invasion this month than have died in the last 3 years?
I honestly don't understand the question. That more people die during military operations than before or after seems to be pretty much the norm.
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On July 31 2014 05:42 EtherealBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:29 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:22 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum. Sure there are hawkish people, but drawing parallels between the Hamas and the current government in Israel are wrong and relativistic. Theocratic rule with and the creation of a homogeneous society is basically the rule in nearly all Arabic nations. Take a trip to Tel-Aviv and you'll encounter the exact opposite. Israel does not want to form an exclusive Jewish society. 70% of Israelis support a two state solution, but also 85% of people support the current military operations. This genuinely is about self defense and not about creating some kind of apartheid ghetto. On July 31 2014 05:28 Derez wrote:
That's not a fringe party and, quoting wikipedia:
10% of the vote last election and part of the governing coalition. Geert Wilders scored equally in the Netherlands. I've yet to meet one Dutchman who supports the guy. There was no theocratic rule in Egypt except for a year, none in Syria. Lebanon and Syria are far from homogenous societies. You're citing what the media leads you to believe - Israel is carrying the democratic torch among the uncivilised Arab masses.
Egypt has a long history of Islamic law that permeates many aspects of life. I'll give you Syria, Assad has successfully managed to slaughter 170k of his citizens without resorting to religious fanaticism. I don't know much about Lebanon. But that's basically about it. In almost any other Arabic country theocratic rule and/or Sharia law is indeed the norm.
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On July 31 2014 05:42 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:32 Jormundr wrote:On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. I don't know, how about the largest party in the knesset (Likud) the prime minister (who heads it) and all of the parties to the right of Likud which is considered center-right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud#Ideological_positions I don't think Likud has any racist agendas in their manifesto, neither do they justify anything on the ground of religious believes. The parties to the right of Likud don't seem to win a lot of votes. Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:33 Jormundr wrote:On July 31 2014 05:29 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:22 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum. Sure there are hawkish people, but drawing parallels between the Hamas and the current government in Israel are wrong and relativistic. Theocratic rule with and the creation of a homogeneous society is basically the rule in nearly all Arabic nations. Take a trip to Tel-Aviv and you'll encounter the exact opposite. Israel does not want to form an exclusive Jewish society. 70% of Israelis support a two state solution, but also 85% of people support the current military operations. This genuinely is about self defense and not about creating some kind of apartheid ghetto. If this is about self defense then why have more Israelis died in the invasion this month than have died in the last 3 years? I honestly don't understand the question. That more people die during military operations than before or after seems to be pretty much the norm.
Look, you can read english perfectly well. I linked you to:
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs."
Source
From the Likud Party's OFFICIAL FUCKING CHARTER hosted on the knesset website.
Glad to see you entirely ignored it.
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I didn't ignore it a single bit, everybody already knows that Israel's centre-right faction is unwilling to give the settlements up, but that has little to do with racism or religious fanaticism that is comparable to the Hamas ideology, which is what this was originally about.
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On July 31 2014 06:01 Nyxisto wrote:
I didn't ignore it a single bit, everybody already knows that Israel's centre-right faction is unwilling to give the settlements up, but that has little to do with racism or religious fanaticism that is comparable to the Hamas ideology, which is what this was originally about.
You can call it rampant jerkdom if you like, but since they are set on repressing a specific section of people sole based on their ethnic background and religion, I am going to call them racist.
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On July 31 2014 05:53 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 05:42 EtherealBlade wrote:On July 31 2014 05:29 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:22 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:15 Nyxisto wrote:On July 31 2014 05:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 05:01 Noam wrote:On July 31 2014 04:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2014 04:34 Nyxisto wrote:
well the only thing that was changed by the immigration reform was that they need to speak a little bit of German now, but that is off-topic anyway. The gist of it is that Israel grants Jewish people the right of return because historically Israel has been founded as a refuge because of the extermination on the European continent. That doesn't imply that they're discriminating other people. All right, lets me clear, there is a reasonable number of people in in Israel are racist as fuck and a lot of them have gained a lot of power in the government. They suck just as much as Hamas and the only difference is they have more guns and power right now. Lets not act like Israel is the land of tolerance right now or for the last 10 years. "They suck just as much as Hamas" Who exactly? Name one political party in the knesset who's charter says Palestinians should be harmed. And let's talk about Israeli tolerance for a second. A country with a growing population of over 1.5 million arab citizens when Jews were forced out of Muslim countries. A country with the city Tel Aviv which "has frequently been referred to by publishers as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world". A country which spends billions of dollars from its budgets on developing defensive missiles which no other country in the world has or ever thought. A country which continues to provide aid to the citizens of Gaza during this recent cycle of violence, because it is not at war with them, but with Hamas. I bet you didn't know there is an IDF field hospital right outside of Gaza only for Palestinian citizens, and Hamas has fired upon it several times. Good thing that missile defense system is protecting those Palestinian citizens from Hamas' rockets. So no, you can't compare Israel to Hamas when it comes to "sucking". You can criticize Israel for its actions, but if you think it is just as bad as Hamas, you really have no place in a real conversation about this issue. I believe I said the racist and zealots in Israel are as bad as Hamas, not the country as a whole. And in my opinion those people are as guilty of escalating the crisis as Hamas. Its what they want. But no mainstream party in Israel is racist or consists of religious zealots. That the Israelis would have the right to all the land because of religious scripture is a fringe position in Israel. There are a large number of pro-war conservatives in Israel and from my understanding, they have held a lot of sway in the government recently. Even US media reports on the growth of a more "hawkish" section of Israel's government. These conflicts do not start in a vacuum. Sure there are hawkish people, but drawing parallels between the Hamas and the current government in Israel are wrong and relativistic. Theocratic rule with and the creation of a homogeneous society is basically the rule in nearly all Arabic nations. Take a trip to Tel-Aviv and you'll encounter the exact opposite. Israel does not want to form an exclusive Jewish society. 70% of Israelis support a two state solution, but also 85% of people support the current military operations. This genuinely is about self defense and not about creating some kind of apartheid ghetto. On July 31 2014 05:28 Derez wrote:
That's not a fringe party and, quoting wikipedia:
10% of the vote last election and part of the governing coalition. Geert Wilders scored equally in the Netherlands. I've yet to meet one Dutchman who supports the guy. There was no theocratic rule in Egypt except for a year, none in Syria. Lebanon and Syria are far from homogenous societies. You're citing what the media leads you to believe - Israel is carrying the democratic torch among the uncivilised Arab masses. Egypt has a long history of Islamic law that permeates many aspects of life. I'll give you Syria, Assad has successfully managed to slaughter 170k of his citizens without resorting to religious fanaticism. I don't know much about Lebanon. But that's basically about it. In almost any other Arabic country theocratic rule and/or Sharia law is indeed the norm.
Congratulations you've outdone yourself with the absurdity of this post.
1) Please give me clear examples of Islamic law permeating Egyptian life
2) Your comment about Assad killing his own people is irrelevant to this conversation
3) Yes, it's clear that you don't know much of anything
"In almost any other Arabic country" - what does this mean? Do you realize that a huge percentage of Arabs live in Egypt, Algeria, Syria, and Lebanon? The gulf countries represent a very small percentage of Arab population and their cultural influence is only as a result of the oil reserves they're sitting on. These people were all bedouins in the desert before they got rich.
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EPT
