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On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense?
20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs).
What the hell are you talking about Nyxisto?
You seem to forget the part where Israel basically paid people to leave their homes in Eastern Europe and move to newly created towns in Israel.
It's the same reason Tibet has a Chinese population that didn't exist some years ago.
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Missiles have struck several sites in Gaza, including a park inside a refugee camp and an outpatient building of the strip's largest hospital, disrupting a relative lull at the start of the Muslim Eid al-Fitr holiday.
Eight people, including seven children, died following missile fire on a park inside the Shati refugee camp on the edge of Gaza City, medics said.
The children were playing on a swing when the strike hit the park, Ayman Sahabani, the head of the emergency room at Shifa hospital, told reporters.
At least another five Palestinians, including three children, were killed in other attacks on Monday. A four-year-old boy died when tank shells hit his family's house in Jabalia, in the northern Gaza Strip, Gaza health officials said. Another person was killed by tank shelling in a separate incident, also in Jabalia.
The Telegraph: Gaza Strip before and after
More children than militants have been killed during the offensive, according to figures from the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. The death toll as of July 27 was comprised of 832 civilians - 221 of them children - and 182 armed combatants.
So is this self defense? Or genocide?
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"Hamas doesn't care about the lives of Palesinians, Hamas is not seeking coexsitence or compromise. The destruction of Israel isn't Hamas' final destination"
Mosab Hassan Yousef, Son of Hamas founder
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On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide?
It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you. Israel has never been convicted of committing genocide nor is any sane person accusing them of it.
On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs).
So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying.
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On July 29 2014 06:03 Bill Murray wrote:
"Hamas doesn't care about the lives of Palesinians, Hamas is not seeking coexsitence or compromise. The destruction of Israel isn't Hamas' final destination"
Mosab Hassan Yousef, Son of Hamas founder
Please don't use quotes of people taken out of context to mean anything. By this logic one can justify anything.
Just the other day a member of the Israeli government said that they should rape/murder all Palestinian mothers.
Obviously no good would come from that.
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I just feel like people are forgetting that the Romans displaced the Jewish people the same way they displaced the Palestinians. Shit happens. If you want to blame anyone, blame America and mainly the UK.
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On July 29 2014 06:06 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:03 Bill Murray wrote:
"Hamas doesn't care about the lives of Palesinians, Hamas is not seeking coexsitence or compromise. The destruction of Israel isn't Hamas' final destination"
Mosab Hassan Yousef, Son of Hamas founder Please don't use quotes of people taken out of context to mean anything. By this logic one can justify anything. Just the other day a member of the Israeli government said that they should rape/murder all Palestinian mothers. Obviously no good would come from that.
I am taking nothing out of context. I saw that quote, and figured I would share it. I literally only saw that quote, so if it was taken out of context, it wasn't done by me.
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So if the Romans did it, it is certainly justified for the "jew" to do it... I m sorry but that is a stupid way of thinking.
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If anything you saying it is out of context is a gross misrepresentation because the guy is implying that Palestinians don't care to suicide bomb, or target civilians as an act of war, much like they are pinning on Israel.
Is it that far fetched that Israel is getting a bad rap as a result of Hamas pinning things on them, setting them up?
It is hard for anyone to see the real face of Hamas
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On July 29 2014 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide? It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you. Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs). So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying.
Like I have told you before, build your straw man elsewhere. This is not the place for putting words in people's mouths and it's not the place to cry "deying our right to exist" and "anti-semitism" anytime someone criticizes Israel.
I'm not denying Israel's right to exist. I'm only putting your comment in perspective. If the United States invaded Mexico and killed damn near every Mexican or forced them to flee, then paid Americans to move to Mexico... would it be surprising that the resulting country has roughly 20% Mexicans? No.
Your claim that a "large" Arab population somehow proves your point about Israel comitting genocide or ethnic cleansing is absurd specifically because literally everyone who lived there before Israel was Arab.
I'd say that going from near 100% to 20% in a period of 65 years under a government with a policy of systematically cornering the Arabs and importing Jews from around the world IS ethnic cleansing. The Israeli flag is a Star of David for crying out loud... is that possibly inclusive to the non-Jews living there?
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On July 29 2014 06:10 WhiteDog wrote:
So if the Romans did it, it is certainly justified for the jew to do it... I m sorry but that is a stupid way of thinking.
The Jewish people didn't do it. They had nowhere to go. They put out a lot of money, so although it is akin to the United States giving Canada to France, it is completely different because there have been reparations
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On July 29 2014 06:11 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide? It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you. On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs). So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying. Like I have told you before, build your straw man elsewhere. This is not the place for putting words in people's mouths and it's not the place to cry "deying our right to exist" and "anti-semitism" anytime someone criticizes Israel. I'm not denying Israel's right to exist. I'm only putting your comment in perspective. If the United States invaded Mexico and killed damn near every Mexican or forced them to flee, then paid Americans to move to Mexico... would it be surprising that the resulting country has roughly 20% Mexicans? No. Your claim that a "large" Arab population somehow proves your point about Israel comitting genocide or ethnic cleansing is absurd specifically because literally everyone who lived there before Israel was Arab.
I have repeatedly said and it is true that Israel is the most democratic country in the region, and that it represents the Arab minority in a way like no Jewish or Christian minority is represented in any Muslim country. If your reply to that is "But now only 20% of them are Arabs it used to be 100% !!!" That basically translates to: "Jews gtf out of here".
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On July 29 2014 06:14 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:11 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide? It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you. On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs). So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying. Like I have told you before, build your straw man elsewhere. This is not the place for putting words in people's mouths and it's not the place to cry "deying our right to exist" and "anti-semitism" anytime someone criticizes Israel. I'm not denying Israel's right to exist. I'm only putting your comment in perspective. If the United States invaded Mexico and killed damn near every Mexican or forced them to flee, then paid Americans to move to Mexico... would it be surprising that the resulting country has roughly 20% Mexicans? No. Your claim that a "large" Arab population somehow proves your point about Israel comitting genocide or ethnic cleansing is absurd specifically because literally everyone who lived there before Israel was Arab. I have repeatedly said and it is true that Israel is the most democratic country in the region, and that it represents the Arab minority in a way like no Jewish or Christian minority is represented in any Muslim country. If your reply to that is "But now only 20% of them are Arabs it used to be 100% !!!" That basically means your that your argument it "Jews gtf out of here".
You can't blame them for having that argument, though, because it isn't fair for Palestine to have been displaced the way it was.
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On July 29 2014 06:11 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:10 WhiteDog wrote:
So if the Romans did it, it is certainly justified for the jew to do it... I m sorry but that is a stupid way of thinking. The Jewish people didn't do it. They had nowhere to go. They put out a lot of money, so although it is akin to the United States giving Canada to France, it is completely different because there have been reparations
Reparations... That s how you explain being expulsed, parked in camp, and receiving bombs.
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It is times like these that you have to step back, and think, why can't everybody just get along? Why can't all 3 religions live in harmony?
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On July 29 2014 06:15 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:11 Bill Murray wrote:On July 29 2014 06:10 WhiteDog wrote:
So if the Romans did it, it is certainly justified for the jew to do it... I m sorry but that is a stupid way of thinking. The Jewish people didn't do it. They had nowhere to go. They put out a lot of money, so although it is akin to the United States giving Canada to France, it is completely different because there have been reparations Reparations... That s how you explain being expulsed, parked in camp, and receiving bombs.
I'm saying in 1948 money was handed over for land
Today, as a result of Palestinians feeling they got the short end of the stick, Hamas are repaying them with rockets, and Israel military are retaliating everytime tit for tat
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On July 29 2014 06:14 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:14 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 06:11 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide? It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you. On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs). So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying. Like I have told you before, build your straw man elsewhere. This is not the place for putting words in people's mouths and it's not the place to cry "deying our right to exist" and "anti-semitism" anytime someone criticizes Israel. I'm not denying Israel's right to exist. I'm only putting your comment in perspective. If the United States invaded Mexico and killed damn near every Mexican or forced them to flee, then paid Americans to move to Mexico... would it be surprising that the resulting country has roughly 20% Mexicans? No. Your claim that a "large" Arab population somehow proves your point about Israel comitting genocide or ethnic cleansing is absurd specifically because literally everyone who lived there before Israel was Arab. I have repeatedly said and it is true that Israel is the most democratic country in the region, and that it represents the Arab minority in a way like no Jewish or Christian minority is represented in any Muslim country. If your reply to that is "But now only 20% of them are Arabs it used to be 100% !!!" That basically means your that your argument it "Jews gtf out of here". You can't blame them for having that argument, though, because it isn't fair for Palestine to have been displaced the way it was.
And it wasn't fair that the Jewish people had no other alternative to flee to the middle-east or to America after they were being exterminated on the European continent, but that's what happened. No country has been founded out of love peace and happiness. The point is that there could have been peace for a long time, but the driving force in this conflict are people that present a radical Islam which will not tolerate any kind of plurality in the region.
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On July 29 2014 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide? It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you.
The realities of modern warfare is this called then, that's what you'd tell to a Gazan?
Why not redefine modern warfare by digging tunnels and launching homemade rockets then. This is extremely sad how easily you can just dismiss the massacre that's going on, helped by German taxpayers' money.
Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs). So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying.
You've been defending Israel's "democracy" for days, but in reality it's a democracy for a select few, because apparently multiculturalism and a multi ethnic composition is out of the question there. They wanted a state without Arabs from the beginning.
How do you define Israel's right to exist? Ethnically cleansing nearly entire Palestine is included in that?
Because while WW2 was ongoing there were no massive expulsions. Only the Axis countries' populations were subject to expulsion based on collective guilt after 1945.
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On July 29 2014 06:14 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:11 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide? It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you. On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs). So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying. Like I have told you before, build your straw man elsewhere. This is not the place for putting words in people's mouths and it's not the place to cry "deying our right to exist" and "anti-semitism" anytime someone criticizes Israel. I'm not denying Israel's right to exist. I'm only putting your comment in perspective. If the United States invaded Mexico and killed damn near every Mexican or forced them to flee, then paid Americans to move to Mexico... would it be surprising that the resulting country has roughly 20% Mexicans? No. Your claim that a "large" Arab population somehow proves your point about Israel comitting genocide or ethnic cleansing is absurd specifically because literally everyone who lived there before Israel was Arab. I have repeatedly said and it is true that Israel is the most democratic country in the region, and that it represents the Arab minority in a way like no Jewish or Christian minority is represented in any Muslim country. If your reply to that is "But now only 20% of them are Arabs it used to be 100% !!!" That basically translates to: "Jews gtf out of here".
STRAW MAN ALERT.
I love how every single time you respond, you simply pick a new point of discussion vaguely related to what we were talking about and proceed to preach about how amazing Israel is.
Israel is more democratic than its Arab neighbors in the same way that a one legged man is more agile than a no-legged man. Simply being better than the other countries in the region with regards to the established political system is not a platform to justify any action Israel takes.
Again, the only reason I gave the 100% to 20% argument was to put your statement in PERSPECTIVE. Which is what all your arguments lack. It is absolutely meaningless that Israel has a 20% arab population and it doesn't change the fact that Israel has been pursuing a policy of ethnic cleansing.
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On July 29 2014 06:14 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 06:14 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 06:11 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 06:01 EtherealBlade wrote:
So is this self defense? Or genocide? It's war, but as you're blatantly ignoring the realities of modern warfare that are not exclusive to this conflict anyway it doesn't make much sense to continue talking to you. On July 29 2014 05:51 DinoMight wrote:On July 29 2014 04:26 Nyxisto wrote:
And given the large Arabic population of Israel today, how does the accusation that Israel is "ethnically cleansing the country" still make sense? 20.7% Arabs to 75.3% Jews in a country that is 65 years old on land that was previously near 100% Arabs (including Jewish arabs). So you're denying Israel's right to exist completely? It at least sounds like that's what you're implying. Like I have told you before, build your straw man elsewhere. This is not the place for putting words in people's mouths and it's not the place to cry "deying our right to exist" and "anti-semitism" anytime someone criticizes Israel. I'm not denying Israel's right to exist. I'm only putting your comment in perspective. If the United States invaded Mexico and killed damn near every Mexican or forced them to flee, then paid Americans to move to Mexico... would it be surprising that the resulting country has roughly 20% Mexicans? No. Your claim that a "large" Arab population somehow proves your point about Israel comitting genocide or ethnic cleansing is absurd specifically because literally everyone who lived there before Israel was Arab. I have repeatedly said and it is true that Israel is the most democratic country in the region, and that it represents the Arab minority in a way like no Jewish or Christian minority is represented in any Muslim country. If your reply to that is "But now only 20% of them are Arabs it used to be 100% !!!" That basically means your that your argument it "Jews gtf out of here". You can't blame them for having that argument, though, because it isn't fair for Palestine to have been displaced the way it was.
neither was it fair to misplace quite a lot of countries in europe after each world war. It still happened, and people can learn to live with it. People have to learn to live with it. Else you get yourself into a situation like Israel-Gaza, where both sides are both unjust and just in their cause and have both good reason to do what they are doing and do terrible things that they never should.
The way I see it, everyone has to hope for the Palestinians to get some new leaders (elected or not, I don't care) that can make decisions that are for the best of both countries. The past has shown that Israel is even willing to give land back to its former enemies (Egypt) for a long-lasting peace. Until then they are kinda stuck in having to do military operations in a country full of civilians trying to get rid of the tunnels and rockets on a yearly interval and take the international blame when they screw up hard (and it is not easy to not screw up. To cite someone I can't remember: "It's one hell of a pinpoint operation". Then again, I don't want to take away from the needless brutality and stupidity that the IDF often times is capable of). Which sucks hard for both sides.
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EPT
