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On July 17 2013 04:08 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:46 LegalLord wrote:On July 17 2013 03:34 schimmetje wrote:On July 17 2013 02:55 LegalLord wrote:On July 17 2013 02:39 sVnteen wrote:On July 17 2013 02:15 LegalLord wrote:
None of these countries shield him because they believe he did the right thing. They shield him to spite the US. that doesn't mean that they think that what he did was wrong I am certain that these countries do the exact same thing (China obviously does, and the USSR did it so Russia almost certainly does). They do not support Snowden for any reason other than because they don't like the US. And the US has been very, very vocal about how wrong those other countries doing it is. Much like how very supportive they are of dissidents from there. But now the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it? He should get it imo, because it did cost him to expose this travesty and we do need a signal that this growing worldwide trend of invading the lives of everyone in trade for a pinky promise that all will be well is not something that should just be accepted. But he probably won't. Spying is what spies do. The NSA is an organization of spies. I see nothing wrong with that. Leaking important documents vital to the function of that organization, on the other hand, is treason. so if the government uses its army to kill citizens that are protesting it's okay because it's the army's job to kill people but if a soldier says: "no I won't kill these people" he should be killed because he is not obeying orders? I'm grateful that there are so few people with this point of view over here... jeez
The army's job is to maintain stability, not kill people. Very much a strawman argument.
Desertion, by the way, is a crime for which you can be shot.
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On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care.
You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life.
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On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life.
You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public.
I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you.
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On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you.
This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid.
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On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid.
While the mass conspiracy BS may be a stretch, controlling cell phone videos is not. Its common practice to ban cellphones from secure areas and sneaking one in is pretty difficult given metal detectors and x ray machines.
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On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid.
well, they did (do) run a sick surveillance program until snowden revealed it, didnt they?
no?
where were all the viral videos revealing this? 
probably almost every country has similar shit running... thousands of thousands of people involved. where are the viral videos?
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On July 17 2013 04:48 Mallard86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. While the mass conspiracy BS may be a stretch, controlling cell phone videos is not. Its common practice to ban cellphones from secure areas and sneaking one in is pretty difficult given metal detectors and x ray machines.
I agree, that there is tight security, but you would think if this kind of shit was happening on any kind of scale somebody would have gone to the local news or something like that. Also I was just trying to point out that the way he sets up the argument its impossible to prove him wrong.
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On July 17 2013 04:57 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. well, they did (do) run a sick surveillance program until snowden revealed it, didnt they? no? where were all the viral videos revealing this?
As noted earlier in this thread, people knew that sort of thing was going on anyway, and snowden is certainly not the first to leak secret US info. Also wiretapping is a far cry from secret torture/oppression.
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On July 17 2013 04:58 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:48 Mallard86 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. While the mass conspiracy BS may be a stretch, controlling cell phone videos is not. Its common practice to ban cellphones from secure areas and sneaking one in is pretty difficult given metal detectors and x ray machines. I agree, that there is tight security, but you would think if this kind of shit was happening on any kind of scale somebody would have gone to the local news or something like that. Also I was just trying to point out that the way he sets up the argument its impossible to prove him wrong.
someone just did and you keep arguing. what the fuck?
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On July 17 2013 05:01 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:58 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:48 Mallard86 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. While the mass conspiracy BS may be a stretch, controlling cell phone videos is not. Its common practice to ban cellphones from secure areas and sneaking one in is pretty difficult given metal detectors and x ray machines. I agree, that there is tight security, but you would think if this kind of shit was happening on any kind of scale somebody would have gone to the local news or something like that. Also I was just trying to point out that the way he sets up the argument its impossible to prove him wrong. someone just did and you keep arguing. what the fuck?
snowden is not leaking evidence of a secret FBI apparatus of oppression. He's leaking evidence of wiretapping, like I said in response to your post. There is an immense difference.
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On July 17 2013 05:00 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:57 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. well, they did (do) run a sick surveillance program until snowden revealed it, didnt they? no? where were all the viral videos revealing this? As noted earlier in this thread, people knew that sort of thing was going on anyway, and snowden is certainly not the first to leak secret US info. Also wiretapping is a far cry from secret torture/oppression.
people didnt know at all. people were afraid that this stuff might be happening, but being aware that all your skype calls are actually target of surveillance? people KNEW THAT? are you kidding me?
poeple DID NOT know that. people did not know the scale of this shit. they just didnt. yes, everyone was afraid, cause so many people didnt trust their governments anymore. NOW THEY HAVE PROOF: that's the whole point, ok?
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On July 17 2013 05:02 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 05:01 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 04:58 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:48 Mallard86 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. While the mass conspiracy BS may be a stretch, controlling cell phone videos is not. Its common practice to ban cellphones from secure areas and sneaking one in is pretty difficult given metal detectors and x ray machines. I agree, that there is tight security, but you would think if this kind of shit was happening on any kind of scale somebody would have gone to the local news or something like that. Also I was just trying to point out that the way he sets up the argument its impossible to prove him wrong. someone just did and you keep arguing. what the fuck? snowden is not leaking evidence of a secret FBI apparatus of oppression. He's leaking evidence of wiretapping, like I said in response to your post. There is an immense difference.
people didnt know that the systems needed for major scale oppression were running already. it's good snowden leaked this at an "early point". should he have waited any longer? maybe he should have waited till our internet in censored anyway?
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On July 17 2013 05:02 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 05:00 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:57 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 02:59 sva wrote:
More then Obama did....
And it hardly matters anymore, but I think he just needs our support not an award. Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. well, they did (do) run a sick surveillance program until snowden revealed it, didnt they? no? where were all the viral videos revealing this? As noted earlier in this thread, people knew that sort of thing was going on anyway, and snowden is certainly not the first to leak secret US info. Also wiretapping is a far cry from secret torture/oppression. people didnt know at all. people were afraid that this stuff might be happening, but being aware that all your skype calls are actually target of surveillance? people KNEW THAT? are you kidding me? poeple DID NOT know that. people did not know the scale of this shit. they just didnt. yes, everyone was afraid, cause so many people didnt trust their governments anymore. NOW THEY HAVE PROOF: that's the whole point, ok?
You're missing the point. AnomalySC2 is arguing that there is a secret FBI apparatus of "oppression/life runiation" and that its secret so any evidence I bring up as to why it doesn't exist doesn't count. The argument is non-falsifiable and thus I reject it. I don't really have some point to prove about how important snowden's leaks are, but as said before, you should probably be more worried about microsoft monitoring your skype calls than the NSA.
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Let me think; Obama, EU...yeah Snowden why not. I vote for Team Liquid, brings peace all day everyday among other things to so many nerds. TL.net Nobel Prize 2014?
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honestly, shouldnt we know about what our governments are doing?
this is a _DEMOCRACY_. our countries are "governed by the people". yet the biggest operations are secret from the people. and unwanted too.
do you not understand this? the majority DOES NOT WANT this shit to happen. yet it happens. thus the leak is good. what's so hard to understand?
On July 17 2013 05:06 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 05:02 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 05:00 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:57 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:On July 17 2013 03:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
Indeed. Though, it will be sad if no change is brought about from his sacrifice. Our government will do anything it can to keep it's NSA surveillance weapon in working order, and it seems like we're all pretty powerless vs such a powerful entity. Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word. US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. well, they did (do) run a sick surveillance program until snowden revealed it, didnt they? no? where were all the viral videos revealing this? As noted earlier in this thread, people knew that sort of thing was going on anyway, and snowden is certainly not the first to leak secret US info. Also wiretapping is a far cry from secret torture/oppression. people didnt know at all. people were afraid that this stuff might be happening, but being aware that all your skype calls are actually target of surveillance? people KNEW THAT? are you kidding me? poeple DID NOT know that. people did not know the scale of this shit. they just didnt. yes, everyone was afraid, cause so many people didnt trust their governments anymore. NOW THEY HAVE PROOF: that's the whole point, ok? You're missing the point. AnomalySC2 is arguing that there is a secret FBI apparatus of "oppression/life runiation" and that its secret so any evidence I bring up as to why it doesn't exist doesn't count. The argument is non-falsifiable and thus I reject it. I don't really have some point to prove about how important snowden's leaks are, but as said before, you should probably be more worried about microsoft monitoring your skype calls than the NSA.
ok i get your point. but in all seriousness... should we be discussing details like that?
our governments are out of control and acting against our will. what's to discuss here?
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On July 17 2013 05:07 beg wrote:honestly, shouldnt we know about what our governments are doing? this is a _DEMOCRACY_. our countries are "governed by the people". yet the biggest operations are secret from the people. and unwanted too. do you not understand this? the majority DOES NOT WANT this shit to happen. yet it happens. thus the leak is good. what's so hard to understand? Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 05:06 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 05:02 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 05:00 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:57 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 03:35 Pr0wler wrote:
[quote]
Lol, what changes ? Look how they react to this. Instead of apologizing for all this shit, they want to capture the guy that exposed them and then kill him. EU(biggest ally) told the US gov. that what they did is not good and they are not happy about it, to say the least... What was the reaction ? Not a single word.
US government does whatever it wants and I'm wondering why the people - free citizens - are doing nothing about it. Why there are no protests, riots etc ? For example in Luxembourg the prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker resigned for similar reasons last week. I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. well, they did (do) run a sick surveillance program until snowden revealed it, didnt they? no? where were all the viral videos revealing this? As noted earlier in this thread, people knew that sort of thing was going on anyway, and snowden is certainly not the first to leak secret US info. Also wiretapping is a far cry from secret torture/oppression. people didnt know at all. people were afraid that this stuff might be happening, but being aware that all your skype calls are actually target of surveillance? people KNEW THAT? are you kidding me? poeple DID NOT know that. people did not know the scale of this shit. they just didnt. yes, everyone was afraid, cause so many people didnt trust their governments anymore. NOW THEY HAVE PROOF: that's the whole point, ok? You're missing the point. AnomalySC2 is arguing that there is a secret FBI apparatus of "oppression/life runiation" and that its secret so any evidence I bring up as to why it doesn't exist doesn't count. The argument is non-falsifiable and thus I reject it. I don't really have some point to prove about how important snowden's leaks are, but as said before, you should probably be more worried about microsoft monitoring your skype calls than the NSA. ok i get your point. but in all seriousness... should we be discussing details like that? our governments are out of control and acting against our will. what's to discuss here?
well for starters we could discuss whether on not snowden should get the peace prize 
personally, while I'm a bit worried over violations of privacy, its not really that big of a deal. At the end of the day we're voluntarily giving up a lot of our privacy anyway because it makes it easier to connect to facebook. At the end of the day i think that the hype that the government is going to turn big brother all of a sudden is overblown. don't drink the kool aid.
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Polls like these infuriate me. 100% of the people that voted in this poll have no true idea what goes into selecting a Peace Prize recipient.
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On July 17 2013 05:20 RHGaming wrote:
Polls like these infuriate me. 100% of the people that voted in this poll have no true idea what goes into selecting a Peace Prize recipient.
Good ole "95% of statistics are made up on the spot".
Also you can easily go to wikipedia, read a bit, find out that it's largely arbitrary, and then make a judgment call which is either based on what goes into selecting a peace prize recipient, OR what SHOULD go into the selection.
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More than Obama did, that's for sure
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On July 17 2013 05:14 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 05:07 beg wrote:honestly, shouldnt we know about what our governments are doing? this is a _DEMOCRACY_. our countries are "governed by the people". yet the biggest operations are secret from the people. and unwanted too. do you not understand this? the majority DOES NOT WANT this shit to happen. yet it happens. thus the leak is good. what's so hard to understand? On July 17 2013 05:06 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 05:02 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 05:00 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:57 beg wrote:On July 17 2013 04:39 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:18 packrat386 wrote:On July 17 2013 04:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
I think people are just scared and or don't care. If you've experienced first hand just how powerful of a weapon the NSA/FBI alliance can be at oppression/life ruination, then you will probably feel hopeless about the entire situation. I imagine people that aren't fully aware just how shady/powerful and deep the rabbit hole at the NSA truly goes, you likely don't care. You keep posting this kind of stuff. What are these weapons of "oppression/life ruination" that you're talking about, and could we please get some sources? I agree that invasions of privacy are bad, but its a far stretch to say that the NSA listening to my personal calls is going to ruin my life. You can't get solid sources, that's the entire point. You think they will just let that type of stuff out into the public willingly? I think if you're going to hear about it from anyone, it will be from mr. Snowden himself considering he has eluded towards seeing incredibly abusive and disturbing examples in some of his interviews before he finally decided to make the entire program public. I pray and also hope he does talk about some of the more extreme abuses the NSA/FBI combo have done to US citizens. Whether you believe me or not, which you won't, doesn't really matter. We will all have to wait and see if these types of stories come to the surface or not....I have no reason to be making stuff up about this btw, I don't have some sort of agenda or whatever drives people to try and manipulate opinions. Just someone that knows he has been a target by this god awful program over the past 3 or so years. Hint, when you find out something about a multibillion dollar tech focused company that could ultimately cost them a lot of money if people learned about it, well that alone is enough of a reason for these guys to oppress you. This is ridiculous. You have a totally non-falsifiable argument because all of the bad stuff that's supposedly happening is "secret" and yet you want other people to believe it. You really think that in this day and age of viral videos and such that the FBI could run a secret torture regime and nobody would notice and tell people? Don't drink the kool-aid. well, they did (do) run a sick surveillance program until snowden revealed it, didnt they? no? where were all the viral videos revealing this? As noted earlier in this thread, people knew that sort of thing was going on anyway, and snowden is certainly not the first to leak secret US info. Also wiretapping is a far cry from secret torture/oppression. people didnt know at all. people were afraid that this stuff might be happening, but being aware that all your skype calls are actually target of surveillance? people KNEW THAT? are you kidding me? poeple DID NOT know that. people did not know the scale of this shit. they just didnt. yes, everyone was afraid, cause so many people didnt trust their governments anymore. NOW THEY HAVE PROOF: that's the whole point, ok? You're missing the point. AnomalySC2 is arguing that there is a secret FBI apparatus of "oppression/life runiation" and that its secret so any evidence I bring up as to why it doesn't exist doesn't count. The argument is non-falsifiable and thus I reject it. I don't really have some point to prove about how important snowden's leaks are, but as said before, you should probably be more worried about microsoft monitoring your skype calls than the NSA. ok i get your point. but in all seriousness... should we be discussing details like that? our governments are out of control and acting against our will. what's to discuss here? well for starters we could discuss whether on not snowden should get the peace prize personally, while I'm a bit worried over violations of privacy, its not really that big of a deal. At the end of the day we're voluntarily giving up a lot of our privacy anyway because it makes it easier to connect to facebook. At the end of the day i think that the hype that the government is going to turn big brother all of a sudden is overblown. don't drink the kool aid.
It may well be overblown, but why give them the option? Don't spare the rod. It is a democracy (Although that's not technically true ), so we should be telling them what to do, not the other way around.
EDIT: I don't mean that we should be dictating policy, but that when something like this, or other important issues come around public opinion should play a maaaaaaaaassive role in anything that happens. Gay rights, sufferage, slavery, and the like are all good examples. Public opinion changed things, and while this may not be a social issue the same should apply.
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EPT
