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Please attempt to distinguish between extremists and non extremists to avoid starting the inevitable waste of time that is "can Islam be judged by its believers?" - KwarK | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:03 Saryph wrote: You really should read and consider your comments before posting them. Confused? Don't know how you read that comment, but it was no way intended to be deemed anything other a questioned response. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On May 23 2013 03:55 soon.Cloak wrote: "People die all the time". So now murder should be treated like a regular death? The implication is that soldiers are equal to murderers. That's valid to you? And aside from all of that, being right doesn't make you any less insensitive. If your parents got killed, it would be insensitive to tell you that they deserved it, even if they did. So "What we want him ti say" is that it's sad, and if he feels anything else, he can keep that to himself. Seriously... You have missed the point. Whether or not haruhi has caused offense, he questions the global relevance of the event, and probably the way moral lines are drawn, but I'll let him speak for himself. How many people are murdered every day that you never hear about? Are you offended that they aren't even noticed? What is a regular death? Is dying from preventable hunger or disease a regular death? Aren't you offended about that too? | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:00 DeepElemBlues wrote: Shock. What would you do if you saw two guys try to run over someone then cut his head off? I'd be so shocked I wouldn't even try to run I'd think. Fill him with gold dots sounds like a better plan. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:07 Slaughter wrote: Even if they were Muslim, who cares? The vast majority of the Muslim community thinks the same thing about these attacks as the rest of the world. Attacks by radical Muslims just get more play in the media (and they currently are more "active" in their activities due to all the shit going down in the Middle East). But other "terrorists" not affiliated with the Muslim religion still do stuff, its just that whenever a Muslim does something it gets amplified 100x because it plays well in the media. You hit the nail right on the head. | ||
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GeneticToss
Canada188 Posts
More importantly though, I'm sorry for this soldier's death and I hope justice is done. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:07 Slaughter wrote: Even if they were Muslim, who cares? The vast majority of the Muslim community thinks the same thing about these attacks as the rest of the world. ah, good man. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:03 farvacola wrote: No, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yelling "Allahu Ackbar" does not make me a Muslim anymore than saying "In Nomine Patris" makes me a Roman Catholic. At this current juncture, there is no reasonable way to judge the "authenticity" of these mens' religious motivations insofar as the committal of this crime is concerned, and the way you and the likes of Deb are oh so quick to immediately judge them as card carrying Muslims speaks volumes in terms of how easily the public is manipulated with surface level proclamations. In the event that these men are found to be involved in Islamic extremism outside this terrible act, your indictments will be justified. In the meantime, you are simply a puppet. If I had to guess it would be that they did this due to islamic extremism. Unfortunately there are rare cases of muslims in the UK being groomed for terrorism. Some go out to fight in the middle east. A few try to make and use explosives etc in the UK but are generally caught before they act. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:04 soon.Cloak wrote: The irony... Setting: A guy kills another guy while shouting Allah Akbar Possibility 1: He was serious. Wouldn't be the first time an extremist Muslim killed someone. Nor would it be the first time an extremist Muslim acted alone. Possibility 2: He was a psycopath, randomly spewing nonsense. Had no motivation, was just overcome by bloodlust. Now, which do you think is the greater possibility? You really think 2? Breivik wrote out an entire manifesto explaining his world view and was clearly insane. These guys shutout some Muslim stuff and are clearly Islamic terrorists. White guys are always lone, insane gunman whose crimes are unrelated to their cultural background, Muslims are always Islamist terrorist and part of a world wide conspiracy. | ||
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MagmaPunch
Bulgaria536 Posts
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soon.Cloak
United States983 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:06 Ferrose wrote: I don't think he's saying that he thinks one is more likely than the other. I think he's saying that both are purely speculation at this point and that it's wrong to jump to conclusions before we know the killers' motivations. On May 23 2013 03:17 farvacola wrote: Sounds like psychopathic fuckers using a Jihadi cover to commit murder. Let us hope that they are brought to justice swiftly. On May 23 2013 04:06 farvacola wrote: I'm saying that the prudent choice at this juncture is to, oh I don't know, wait more than a fucking day before proclaiming that intent is clear? It isn't exactly hard. Also, your understanding of irony is tenuous at best. I am not saying anything definitively. I'm saying that, as a general rule, when people scream their motivation before committing a crime, they are generally serious about that. Or do you have any other exampled of people screaming Allah Akbar while having had a non-Islamic motivation? And I apologize for the misuse of irony. Hypocrisy would fit in better. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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Areon
United States273 Posts
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
On May 23 2013 03:49 DeepElemBlues wrote: They shouted Allahu Ackbar because that's what Muslim jihadis yell when they're doing jihad. The spine-breaking bends some people will undertake to not look at what's right in front of their eyes. Geez. Get back in your scoliosis brace farv, you're hurting yourself. User was warned for this post French philosopher "Alain Finkelkraut" has a saying on this. Political correctness is not only a way of moderating the expressed opinions, it also intends to modify our perception of the world, to create a filter between our mind and reality thus preventing us from directly seeing and judging what's in front of our eyes. | ||
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K_Dilkington
Sweden449 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:03 farvacola wrote: No, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yelling "Allahu Ackbar" does not make me a Muslim anymore than saying "In Nomine Patris" makes me a Roman Catholic. At this current juncture, there is no reasonable way to judge the "authenticity" of these mens' religious motivations insofar as the committal of this crime is concerned, and the way you and the likes of Deb are oh so quick to immediately judge them as card carrying Muslims speaks volumes in terms of how easily the public is manipulated with surface level proclamations. In the event that these men are found to be involved in Islamic extremism outside this terrible act, your indictments will be justified. In the meantime, you are simply a puppet. You are just writing jibberish. You're right that saying "In Nomine Patris" doesn't make you a Roman Catholic but that's not what I stated. If you kill someone and call on Allah, or the Christian God it's not illogical to assume there's a connection. To automatically assume that someone is trying to decieve is irrational. | ||
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soon.Cloak
United States983 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:08 EatThePath wrote: You have missed the point. Whether or not haruhi has caused offense, he questions the global relevance of the event, and probably the way moral lines are drawn, but I'll let him speak for himself. How many people are murdered every day that you never hear about? Are you offended that they aren't even noticed? What is a regular death? Is dying from preventable hunger or disease a regular death? Aren't you offended about that too? Not to get too off topic, but the original response was "How incredibly insensitive". Do we agree to that? If we do, then I think we agree that no defense of the first post was necessary. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:04 soon.Cloak wrote: The irony... Setting: A guy kills another guy while shouting Allah Akbar Possibility 1: He was serious. Wouldn't be the first time an extremist Muslim killed someone. Nor would it be the first time an extremist Muslim acted alone. Possibility 2: He was a psycopath, randomly spewing nonsense. Had no motivation, was just overcome by bloodlust. Now, which do you think is the greater possibility? You really think 2? Why can't possibility 2 have a motivation? If the motivation wasn't religious, there is no motivation at all? Wouldn't be the first time a psychopath killed someone with little to no motivation, or tried to sow unease and confusion with their actions. I think I'm with Farv on this one. I don't think we can go off of one hollered proclamation to claim that this is a terror attack by Islamic fundamentalists. At least not yet, and what do we gain by flying off the handle and immediately blaming an entire religion? They'll find out one way or another what these individuals' motivations were, and then the UK can address it from there. In the meantime, all they can do is increase police presence and try to make sure nothing else like this can happen. While it's a scary story, I see little reason to classify it as a "terror" attack when 1) Only one person was harmed, 2) The suspects have been apprehended, and 3) There has been no indication whatsoever that related criminal activity will follow. It's scary in that it is a brutal story, but people will continue to go about their daily lives. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:13 K_Dilkington wrote: You are just writing jibberish. You're right that saying "In Nomine Patris" doesn't make you a Roman Catholic but that's not what I stated. If you kill someone and call on Allah, or the Christian God it's not illogical to assume there's a connection. To automatically assume that someone is trying to decieve is irrational. What's not irrational is cautioning against hasty conclusions while lacking information. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:05 AnomalySC2 wrote: They deserve to be shown humanity after brutally stabbing and decapitating a random soldier in the middle of a street for no apparent reason? Having someone film it makes it just that much more disgusting to me. I don't think executing someone in the most painful manner possible is "showing humanity", but that might just be me. | ||
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soon.Cloak
United States983 Posts
It is relevant for certain issues, I feel. For example, let's look at racial profiling. If (big if, I understand) we say that a Muslim is more likely to commit an act of terror than a WASP, one may use that to justify racial profiling. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:13 SiroKO wrote: French philosopher "Alain Finkelkraut" has a saying on this. Political correctness is not only a way of moderating the expressed opinions, it also intends to modify our perception of the world, to create a filter between our mind and reality thus preventing us from directly seeing and judging what's in front of our eyes. Waiting until the bigger picture becomes clear before making associations isn't being PC, it's called being prudent and intelligent in ones' judgment. Deb and Finkelkraut would certainly get along swimmingly though, that much is true. On May 23 2013 04:13 K_Dilkington wrote: You are just writing jibberish. You're right that saying "In Nomine Patris" doesn't make you a Roman Catholic but that's not what I stated. If you kill someone and call on Allah, or the Christian God it's not illogical to assume there's a connection. To automatically assume that someone is trying to decieve is irrational. It is illogical to assume that one can properly judge a criminal's intent based merely on a phrase he said immediately after the committal of a violent crime. | ||
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