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On February 05 2013 15:25 CwnAnnwn wrote:Other, want neither to win so going to donkey vote. Sex Party will most likely get my vote
It's been a while since I left Australia. Donkey voting is just putting preferences as 1,2,... in order on the ballot, right? Or is it more general than that?
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To people arguing about the carbon tax. The economic impacts of the carbon tax are pretty minimal and it is basically a non-issue. Certainly much less so than equally politicised reform such as the introduction of the GST. It does work in reducing greenhouse gas emissions (for instance look at the spot prices in the NEM during offpeak times and how brown coal plants are being operated) and there is literally no rational reason to scrap it. Just let it run its' course and convert into an emissions trading scheme from July 2015. Then we will have something which resembles the wildly popular (at the time) ETS that rudd was going to introduce.
To everyone who reads this, please take the time to read the actual policy documents released by each party. What you get in the media often has very little to do with actual policy and is all to do with finding interesting character flaws.
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anyone but Julia (or Kevin) (or Steven Conroy) (or Penny Wong) (or the greens)
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On February 05 2013 15:55 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 15:25 CwnAnnwn wrote:Other, want neither to win so going to donkey vote. Sex Party will most likely get my vote It's been a while since I left Australia. Donkey voting is just putting preferences as 1,2,... in order on the ballot, right? Or is it more general than that?
Yep, that's donkey voting, but it also refers more generally to voting informal, eg. writing "I <3 boobs" on your ballot.
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On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour.
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On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. The poll in this thread started with Labor in a strong lead, and then it suddenly went Liberal. But what's actually more puzzling is that there is hardly anyone posting here that supports the Liberals. It's just bo1b and a few others. Why aren't these Liberal supporters posting?
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On February 05 2013 21:24 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. The poll in this thread started with Labor in a strong lead, and then it suddenly went Liberal. But what's actually more puzzling is that there is hardly anyone posting here that supports the Liberals. It's just bo1b and a few others. Why aren't these Liberal supporters posting? I actually don't support either side, I'm just disgusted in both - slightly more disgusted with labor I suppose.
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On February 05 2013 21:24 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. The poll in this thread started with Labor in a strong lead, and then it suddenly went Liberal. But what's actually more puzzling is that there is hardly anyone posting here that supports the Liberals. It's just bo1b and a few others. Why aren't these Liberal supporters posting? Yeah well I was commenting because this forum is a younger, online demographic (tend to be more left wing) with a vast majority who don't follow Aus politics, click the first option and leave (much like the real election).
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On February 04 2013 17:25 SEA KarMa wrote:How is the carbon tax good? All it does is make taxpayers pay more. You've got to understand what the government is trying to imply. They are trying to imply that by putting a carbon tax, there will be more 'green' awareness in general, etc, good for environment. Even if it isn't, that is the impression they are trying to put onto the Australian public. In reality, we have good coal over here, its a fact. We sell that coal off to other countries, and we buy the cheapest, dirtiest coal and burn it here, creating the same, if not worse, amount of carbon. I'm not saying whether or not the carbon tax is good, but their representation of it is completely wrong and unjustified, but its alright because hardly anyone in the public would follow this news closely.
Everybody owns the environment, and corporations should be forced to pay us for the damage they do to it.
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On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. Honestly, neither party is left of center.
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On February 05 2013 22:15 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. Honestly, neither party is left of center. His point still stands that online polls normally favor the major party which is further to the left.
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On February 05 2013 22:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2013 17:25 SEA KarMa wrote:How is the carbon tax good? All it does is make taxpayers pay more. You've got to understand what the government is trying to imply. They are trying to imply that by putting a carbon tax, there will be more 'green' awareness in general, etc, good for environment. Even if it isn't, that is the impression they are trying to put onto the Australian public. In reality, we have good coal over here, its a fact. We sell that coal off to other countries, and we buy the cheapest, dirtiest coal and burn it here, creating the same, if not worse, amount of carbon. I'm not saying whether or not the carbon tax is good, but their representation of it is completely wrong and unjustified, but its alright because hardly anyone in the public would follow this news closely. Everybody owns the environment, and corporations should be forced to pay us for the damage they do to it. Who pays the corporations out of interest?
While I'm not against a carbon tax I think people are being a little naive about the impact it's going to have. If Woolworth's suddenly has to pay 1% more for bananas there probably going to charge more than that, and that will snowball. The belief that a gigantic corporation will just absorb the carbon tax out of the meganaire ceo's salary is very shortsighted.
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On February 05 2013 22:24 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 22:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:On February 04 2013 17:25 SEA KarMa wrote:How is the carbon tax good? All it does is make taxpayers pay more. You've got to understand what the government is trying to imply. They are trying to imply that by putting a carbon tax, there will be more 'green' awareness in general, etc, good for environment. Even if it isn't, that is the impression they are trying to put onto the Australian public. In reality, we have good coal over here, its a fact. We sell that coal off to other countries, and we buy the cheapest, dirtiest coal and burn it here, creating the same, if not worse, amount of carbon. I'm not saying whether or not the carbon tax is good, but their representation of it is completely wrong and unjustified, but its alright because hardly anyone in the public would follow this news closely. Everybody owns the environment, and corporations should be forced to pay us for the damage they do to it. Who pays the corporations out of interest? While I'm not against a carbon tax I think people are being a little naive about the impact it's going to have. If Woolworth's suddenly has to pay 1% more for bananas there probably going to charge more than that, and that will snowball. The belief that a gigantic corporation will just absorb the carbon tax out of the meganaire ceo's salary is very shortsighted. Firstly, look at the CPI: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6401.0
Secondly, the compensation exceeds the extra costs for all but the wealthiest people. In case you didn't realize, there was a tax cut that started last financial year because of the carbon tax.
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On February 05 2013 22:30 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 22:24 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 22:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:On February 04 2013 17:25 SEA KarMa wrote:How is the carbon tax good? All it does is make taxpayers pay more. You've got to understand what the government is trying to imply. They are trying to imply that by putting a carbon tax, there will be more 'green' awareness in general, etc, good for environment. Even if it isn't, that is the impression they are trying to put onto the Australian public. In reality, we have good coal over here, its a fact. We sell that coal off to other countries, and we buy the cheapest, dirtiest coal and burn it here, creating the same, if not worse, amount of carbon. I'm not saying whether or not the carbon tax is good, but their representation of it is completely wrong and unjustified, but its alright because hardly anyone in the public would follow this news closely. Everybody owns the environment, and corporations should be forced to pay us for the damage they do to it. Who pays the corporations out of interest? While I'm not against a carbon tax I think people are being a little naive about the impact it's going to have. If Woolworth's suddenly has to pay 1% more for bananas there probably going to charge more than that, and that will snowball. The belief that a gigantic corporation will just absorb the carbon tax out of the meganaire ceo's salary is very shortsighted. Firstly, look at the CPI: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6401.0Secondly, the compensation exceeds the extra costs for all but the wealthiest people. In case you didn't realize, there was a tax cut that started last financial year because of the carbon tax. I haven't seen that link, very interesting thanks.
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i am having a tough time deciding who i should vote for in the next election. Gillard, the lying backstabber or Abbott, the guy who'll make us work for peanuts.
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On February 04 2013 17:18 Robo-boogey wrote: Did Australia dodge the North Atlantic Financial Crisis because of: (a) fiscal stimulus? Yay Labor saved us! Vote 1 Gillard! (b) monetary stimulus? Yay Labor saved us! Although they did waste all that fiscal stimulus money for no reason. Vote 1 Gillard, but with reservations.
Bonus option (c) neither of the above, current Govt made no difference either way, it was all setup by the previous Govts - the mining industry / stable banks / some other reason. Vote 1 Abbott!
As soon as economists can resolve this question, I will be ready to cast my vote. c) would be more based upon the economic reforms implemented by keating... costello did a very good job with what he was given, but keating is the bigger reason the economy did so well through that time.
I'm going to try and find a sane local independent to vote for... hopefully there's someone out there who can (hopefully) use the balance of power to actually do something in the interests of the electorate rather than just voting on party lines all day every day.
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On February 05 2013 22:15 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. Honestly, neither party is left of center. Agreed, which is why I've got it in quotation marks. The past couple decades have seen everything shift horizontally towards to right on the political spectrum. The democrats are right wingers and republicans are batshit insane.
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On February 06 2013 10:36 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 22:15 RockIronrod wrote:On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. Honestly, neither party is left of center. Agreed, which is why I've got it in quotation marks. The past couple decades have seen everything shift horizontally towards to right on the political spectrum. The democrats are right wingers and republicans are batshit insane. Which is strange as society seems to be becoming progressively more liberal.
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On February 05 2013 22:06 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 21:24 paralleluniverse wrote:On February 05 2013 19:49 ShadeR wrote:On February 05 2013 14:53 bo1b wrote:On February 05 2013 12:29 brokengenius wrote:On February 05 2013 12:19 Scarecrow wrote: I'm curious if the Liberals are winning this poll just based on non-Australians assuming they're the left wing option. The economy's doing really well considering the global climate and the Liberals immigration policies are a national disgrace. Regardless, I'm pretty confident Abbot can't go an entire campaign without shooting himself in the foot. You do know liberals are leading in the polls too don't you? God forbid people have opinions other than your own. God forbid calling out both parties as well. Maybe he's just blind to the string of public relations disasters that Gillard has left behind her recently. I get his point though. Online polls are almost always bias towards the "left of center" party, which would be labour. The poll in this thread started with Labor in a strong lead, and then it suddenly went Liberal. But what's actually more puzzling is that there is hardly anyone posting here that supports the Liberals. It's just bo1b and a few others. Why aren't these Liberal supporters posting? Yeah well I was commenting because this forum is a younger, online demographic (tend to be more left wing) with a vast majority who don't follow Aus politics, click the first option and leave (much like the real election).
hahah, this year could be year of the donkey vote, given how disenchanted so many voters are.
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http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/poor-returns-could-force-rethink-of-mining-tax-20130208-2e3q9.html
A note on the poultry revenue raised by the mining tax so far. This is why it should not have been watered down, Rudd was right to push for a large mining tax.
Arguments to scrap the tax because it's not raising enough revenues is completely backwards. Surely $126 million > $0.
The main point to grasp is that minerals in the earth are immobile. If mining companies want to dig this dirt up from the ground, then they have no choice than to pay whatever tax the government sets. They can't offshore mining, because it's in the ground, here. If they don't dig it up, someone else eventually will. Therefore, taking into account the mild disincentive effects of tax hikes, the mining tax should be increased to squeeze every cent of revenue possible out of mining companies over the long term.
Minerals are also finite and will eventually run out, so that the tax should be raised as soon as possible. Lastly, the mining tax wasn't some unsolicited, revenue grabbing scheme concocted by the government. It was a key recommendation from the Henry Tax Review.
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