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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 00:55:16
February 01 2018 00:43 GMT
#196301
As far as I know they didn't violate the law. It had never been thought of to be made illegal because it didn't make any sense to act in the way which they did since that would mean they'd incur huge financial losses. I mean, who would deliberately bankrupt themselves or their business, right?

Besides, its the same assholes that get the bailouts who practically write these laws, so I don't see a legislative way to solve this little problem.

This is why people should just rise up and drag those pieces of shit out of their mansions and chop off their heads.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
February 01 2018 01:02 GMT
#196302
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 01:06:59
February 01 2018 01:05 GMT
#196303
Most of the violations people believe exist have to do with reporting the risks of assets or activities. There were loans handed out to people with no income. It is like tha a Wells Fargo opening all those accounts. People in executive positions knew it was happening, they just didn’t care.

Edit: Nunes ran to the White House with classified information about the investigation last year. The man is a shill and not to be trusted.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
MrUniverse
Profile Joined January 2018
6 Posts
February 01 2018 01:05 GMT
#196304
So have any of you guys watched the State of the Union, thoughts?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23799 Posts
February 01 2018 01:09 GMT
#196305
On February 01 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/mzhemingway/status/958808591720435712


this is some seriously weird stuff.

We have the Republicans attacking the FBI for their surveillance and Democrats defending the secrecy of a notoriously foul organization.

Doesn't this even feel slightly off to you guys on either side of this?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
February 01 2018 01:14 GMT
#196306
On February 01 2018 10:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/mzhemingway/status/958808591720435712


this is some seriously weird stuff.

We have the Republicans attacking the FBI for their surveillance and Democrats defending the secrecy of a notoriously foul organization.

Doesn't this even feel slightly off to you guys on either side of this?

Not really. It's really not about either.

This is just like the "lock up Hillary" thing that wasn't really a thing. Some blow-hard pretends he wants to do all this stuff, but is being blocked on all fronts. Truth is that he (or his party) has all of the power to do all of the things he says he wants, but what he really wants is to grandstand for his constituents.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
February 01 2018 01:16 GMT
#196307
On February 01 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/mzhemingway/status/958808591720435712


Despite everything Nunes said there, his narrative-form memo is presumptively incomplete and partisan. Do we know whether the judge who authorised the FISA renewal believed the applicable legal standard to be met even without the dossier allegations? No we do not. Steele, by the way, is a lifetime ally of the US and intelligence officer, whose sources within Russia uncovered the FIFA corruption a few years back. Steele’s info is not frivolous, and was probably just one piece of evidence that went into the FBI’s attempt to cross the threshold justifying a FISA renewal.

Nunes’ work product, especially a narrative-form memo, is presumptively partisan and incomplete and he and others are engaged in a project to run interference on the FBI’s investigation of Trump and his campaign.

All that said, I kind of like the precedent this sets for House oversight committees. Narrative form memos composed by one political party only. Imagine the spoils when Dems take back the House.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 01 2018 01:17 GMT
#196308
The FBI has a troubled history and is far from perfect. But the Republicans and Trumps attempts to discredit FBI and Justice Department over the investigation are cause for deep concern. This is the stuff the worst of our presidents have tried and mirrors the acts of dictators on their way to securing power.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 01:24:08
February 01 2018 01:23 GMT
#196309
So what I understand about this memo is that it supposedly says that the FISA spying was based just on the steele dossier and therefore unjustified because it was funded by the other party.

But don't we already know multiple allied foreign intelligence agencies already warned FBI/CIA about these meetings of campaign staff with known russian operatives?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia?CMP=share_btn_tw

The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US.

Neosteel Enthusiast
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 01:27:24
February 01 2018 01:24 GMT
#196310
On February 01 2018 10:23 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So what I understand about this memo is that it supposedly says that the FISA spying was based just on the steele dossier and therefore unjustified because it was funded by the other party.

But don't we already know multiple allied foreign intelligence agencies already warned FBI/CIA about these meetings of campaign staff with known russian operatives?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia?CMP=share_btn_tw

Show nested quote +
The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US.



Yes, there was an existing FISA on Page. Partly because it was known he was consorting with Russian spies. Nunes conveniently omits that this was about a renewal every time he talks about this, just like every conservative mouthpiece.

On February 01 2018 10:16 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/mzhemingway/status/958808591720435712


Despite everything Nunes said there, his narrative-form memo is presumptively incomplete and partisan. Do we know whether the judge who authorised the FISA renewal believed the applicable legal standard to be met even without the dossier allegations? No we do not. Steele, by the way, is a lifetime ally of the US and intelligence officer, whose sources within Russia uncovered the FIFA corruption a few years back. Steele’s info is not frivolous, and was probably just one piece of evidence that went into the FBI’s attempt to cross the threshold justifying a FISA renewal.

Nunes’ work product, especially a narrative-form memo, is presumptively partisan and incomplete and he and others are engaged in a project to run interference on the FBI’s investigation of Trump and his campaign.

All that said, I kind of like the precedent this sets for House oversight committees. Narrative form memos composed by one political party only. Imagine the spoils when Dems take back the House.


I still find it amusing that Nunes has basically confirmed this is all about the dossier being used to renew surveillance on Page and it is public knowledge the dossier was accurate with respect to Page. This is one of the ONLY confirmed parts of the dossier!
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
February 01 2018 01:24 GMT
#196311
On February 01 2018 10:05 Plansix wrote:
Most of the violations people believe exist have to do with reporting the risks of assets or activities. There were loans handed out to people with no income. It is like tha a Wells Fargo opening all those accounts. People in executive positions knew it was happening, they just didn’t care.

Edit: Nunes ran to the White House with classified information about the investigation last year. The man is a shill and not to be trusted.

He let the White House know breathtaking news about the prior administration surveiling his campaign using the foreign intelligence surveillance act. The ethics committee cleared him of any wrongdoing.

And democrats plus allies have continued to act coy when Hillary-funded research was used to wiretap her presidential opponent.

The real question is if this is more or less concerning than Democrats saying an unelected bureaucracy must not be held accountable to any elected body.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 01 2018 01:24 GMT
#196312
On February 01 2018 10:16 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/mzhemingway/status/958808591720435712


Despite everything Nunes said there, his narrative-form memo is presumptively incomplete and partisan. Do we know whether the judge who authorised the FISA renewal believed the applicable legal standard to be met even without the dossier allegations? No we do not. Steele, by the way, is a lifetime ally of the US and intelligence officer, whose sources within Russia uncovered the FIFA corruption a few years back. Steele’s info is not frivolous, and was probably just one piece of evidence that went into the FBI’s attempt to cross the threshold justifying a FISA renewal.

Nunes’ work product, especially a narrative-form memo, is presumptively partisan and incomplete and he and others are engaged in a project to run interference on the FBI’s investigation of Trump and his campaign.

All that said, I kind of like the precedent this sets for House oversight committees. Narrative form memos composed by one political party only. Imagine the spoils when Dems take back the House.

I’m so excited to see how much dirt was can turn up about house republicans. And then we can refer them to the FBI and complain then they don’t give us the results we want.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 01:26:35
February 01 2018 01:26 GMT
#196313
On February 01 2018 10:24 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2018 10:05 Plansix wrote:
Most of the violations people believe exist have to do with reporting the risks of assets or activities. There were loans handed out to people with no income. It is like tha a Wells Fargo opening all those accounts. People in executive positions knew it was happening, they just didn’t care.

Edit: Nunes ran to the White House with classified information about the investigation last year. The man is a shill and not to be trusted.

He let the White House know breathtaking news about the prior administration surveiling his campaign using the foreign intelligence surveillance act. The ethics committee cleared him of any wrongdoing.

And democrats plus allies have continued to act coy when Hillary-funded research was used to wiretap her presidential opponent.

The real question is if this is more or less concerning than Democrats saying an unelected bureaucracy must not be held accountable to any elected body.


Oooh, throwing out the wiretap word. Great job summoning up another discredited nonscandal! Trump would be proud. Surprised you didn't work unmasking in there, too.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 01:49:26
February 01 2018 01:27 GMT
#196314
On February 01 2018 10:24 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2018 10:05 Plansix wrote:
Most of the violations people believe exist have to do with reporting the risks of assets or activities. There were loans handed out to people with no income. It is like tha a Wells Fargo opening all those accounts. People in executive positions knew it was happening, they just didn’t care.

Edit: Nunes ran to the White House with classified information about the investigation last year. The man is a shill and not to be trusted.

He let the White House know breathtaking news about the prior administration surveiling his campaign using the foreign intelligence surveillance act. The ethics committee cleared him of any wrongdoing.

And democrats plus allies have continued to act coy when Hillary-funded research was used to wiretap her presidential opponent.

The real question is if this is more or less concerning than Democrats saying an unelected bureaucracy must not be held accountable to any elected body.

FISA warrants are reviewed by the Judiciary and can be reviewed by congress. And the White House helped draft that memo. Or won’t deny they helped.

But hey, hang your hat on carter page to discredit the FBI and the renewal of a FISA warrant. Can’t make you look any more partisan, right?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
February 01 2018 01:29 GMT
#196315
On February 01 2018 10:16 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/mzhemingway/status/958808591720435712


Despite everything Nunes said there, his narrative-form memo is presumptively incomplete and partisan. Do we know whether the judge who authorised the FISA renewal believed the applicable legal standard to be met even without the dossier allegations? No we do not. Steele, by the way, is a lifetime ally of the US and intelligence officer, whose sources within Russia uncovered the FIFA corruption a few years back. Steele’s info is not frivolous, and was probably just one piece of evidence that went into the FBI’s attempt to cross the threshold justifying a FISA renewal.

Nunes’ work product, especially a narrative-form memo, is presumptively partisan and incomplete and he and others are engaged in a project to run interference on the FBI’s investigation of Trump and his campaign.

All that said, I kind of like the precedent this sets for House oversight committees. Narrative form memos composed by one political party only. Imagine the spoils when Dems take back the House.

I am for releasing the primary source documents. I’ve said so in this forum at least twice now. You’re so ready to declare that it’s “probably just one piece of evidence,” but have jack squat to show for it.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 01 2018 01:34 GMT
#196316
What mythical source documents are you talking about?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 01:36:33
February 01 2018 01:35 GMT
#196317
I mean, you could also just release the legal documents during the normal proceedings as necessary instead of trying to score political points with them so that the target of the investigation and foreign agents don't have advance warning about the case that's going to be made against them.

But I mean you still don't seem to acknowledge that this particular evidence that's already public knowledge was correct, so...
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 01 2018 01:41 GMT
#196318
Impossible!

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 01 2018 01:55 GMT
#196319
That is super not good. I don’t like how nonspecific it is. Are army payroll checks going to bounce on February 5th or something?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-01 01:59:49
February 01 2018 01:59 GMT
#196320
On February 01 2018 10:55 Plansix wrote:
That is super not good. I don’t like how nonspecific it is. Are army payroll checks going to bounce on February 5th or something?


The report sounds like they have until mid-March. It's also surprisingly well-made and easy to read, good job on their part.
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